RE: AE Player tips - Allied (Full Version)

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byron13 -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 1:27:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Only 1 Tree hasnt been looking at a recent build the China tactic is no longer workable because most of the small Chinese Armies have a reduced TOE so they respawn with moderate strengh I think I missed one Chinese Corps but the rest wont gain strength if destroyed so na na naa na na [:D][:D]

I did miss one which I will pick up in patch 1 if the current build stands up

My main watchword for the allies is it is VERY easy to get sucked into a forward defence that cripples your army.

A lot of forces on map at the start have forces you can deploy overseas and it may well look attractive to do so but you do it at the expnse of long term strength.

e.g.

Australian Militia Bdes are cheap to buy out because they start under strength and you deploy them overseas - BUT the c 100 CMF Militia Squads in those Bdes have 1,000 prime Infantry you dont get the mass of devices you got in stock because of the half way house upgrade system.

Each starting squad has the manpower that will eventually turn into AIF Inf Sections.

Because the individual devices convert on upgrade if you waste these undertrained half equipped soldiers you can cripple your later offensive punch.

Same with the Indians you need to preserve your rear area troops and only commit them when trained and fully equipped unless 100% certain the payoff is worth it.

e.g. committing a couple of Aus Militia Divs to PM/ Gili Gili and Lunga is probably possible if you do nothing else with your PP's but A. their combat value in open terrain without forts is negligable and b. losing them will remove those forces from later operations even if you get a cadre back to base.

Small Cadre rebuilds are proibitive because of the drain on key devices.

Be VERY VERY carefull about commiting undertrained and equipped troops.

You have a lot of ways to screw up in the early game by over committing to defence. 


I remember reading some threads on all of this and how the British/Indian units upgrades and change TO&E. Is the manual pretty clear on how all of this upgrading works - clear enough for the implications of certain strategies to be clear to me? Or should I go find these old threads so I understand why I shouldn't go wasting militia units?



EUBanana -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 5:23:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: byron13
I remember reading some threads on all of this and how the British/Indian units upgrades and change TO&E. Is the manual pretty clear on how all of this upgrading works - clear enough for the implications of certain strategies to be clear to me? Or should I go find these old threads so I understand why I shouldn't go wasting militia units?


From my dim recollection, the message I picked up was that Allied infantry squads are essentially an irreplaceable resource, and any major casualties will have a lasting impact on the war. If 1st USMC gets chewed up real bad in a convoy gone wrong, 1st USMC is gone, finito. If you reconstitute it with replacements, you can do this, but only at the cost of some other USMC unit being under strength or un-upgraded.

I remember this much as I wasn't too happy about it at the time, it seemed overly draconian. I'll be quite happy to be told I'm wrong. [:D]



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 5:38:13 PM)

OK the potted version.

Inf Squads now upgrade as before however when a squad upgrades to a new type th esquads that it replaces are sent back to the pool as the latest incarnation of the squad type.

So an Indian Infantry Bridge has say 2 Bns of Indian and 1 of British Infantry

So it has
72 Indian 41 Sections and
36 British 41 Sections.

Now if the pool has 72 Indian 42 Sections they upgrade as normal but when the Indian 41 Sections are returned to the pool they are automatically upgraded.

Why is this well Squad updates are basically small arms changes the manpower does not for th emost part become obsolete.

So unlike Stock where you had hundreds of obsolete squads in the pool and replacement rates designed to allow some units to upgrade you are now left actual replacement rates for Squads.

This has large indications for some armies.

Indian Army has very limited replacements in 41/42 because they have not yet fully mobilised and they are supporting both the Middle East and Persia with replacements as well.

As a result Indian replacements are quite low until Auk's reforms kick in in 43 and the raising of Indian manpower from non traditional sources begins with more thoroughness.

British Army replacements actually drop over time they start low and get lower - you should always be short of British Sections - gradually as the Indianisation of Indian Divs proceeds British Bns are replaced by indian ones freeing up British Squads to reinforce the British Divs (2nd/18th and 36th plus the Chindits)

NZ is very short of replacements because so many are being sent to the Middle East.

Australia gains replacements over time by consolidating the Light Horse Bns and Motor Bdes/Bns and by a relativelly ok replacement rate in 41/42 but dropping thereafter.

Rebuilding a Div with obsolete device types like the Indian 41 Section is no longer possible because these devices have been auto upgraded and device production now has an end date.

US/USMC both have higher replacement rates than the other allied nations and tend to get stronger over time although even for these forces I suspect a very aggressive early strategy will lead to prime Infantry shortages later in the war.

Infantry are a valued resource don't waste them.

In the last game I played I saved a large fragment of 9th Indian Div from Malaya - within 4 months I had sent it to Delhi where it was allowed to disband returning all devices to the pool



Dili -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 7:49:10 PM)

Does the old devices share the TOE until there are enough new devices or they disapeaer when new ones arrive?



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 7:53:55 PM)

Not sure I understand the question can you expand ?



treespider -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 8:00:32 PM)

I think Dili meant for example a unit has a TO&E of 72 squads....it starts with 72 year 41 squads. Can it upgrade a portion so as to have 36 year 41 squads and 36 year 42 squads.....the answer is no...it can only have one or the other type of squad



helldiver -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 8:25:56 PM)

Treespider.

So how, in function, do the Port Service Dets (30 Nav. Spt., you said) differ from full-blown US Navy BFs... is it just smaller support/size or do they do different things?

Regards,
Helldiver



John Lansford -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 8:36:20 PM)

In 1944 the US 1st Marine Division basically gutted itself on Pelieliu, but was rebuilt in time to have participated in the Home Islands invasion in late 1945.  If as someone said earlier a division loses a lot of its strength (combat or transit loss), how will they be able to rebuild?



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 8:45:25 PM)

Because the replacements are not that tight for some forces you still get 54 squads of USMC per month so a Div will take 5 months worth to replace and retrain if its totally destroyed.

British Replacements start at 18 then drop to 15 then to 12 per month

Indian Army got from 12 to 48 to 60 to 90 per month

Australians

Get
AIF 4 per month
CMF 15 per month
CMF Militia 10 per month

So total 29 per month at start

These consolidate to AIF Squads at 55 per month then 40 finally 30

Basically Indian Army and US Forces have substantial replacements

Australian/British and NZ Squads reduce over time as the manpower is exhausted



Panther Bait -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 9:25:45 PM)

Andy,

So am I correct in assuming that this new infantry replacement scheme allows "relatively quick" upgrades to new kit, but a slower replacement rate? And if so, that you aren't as likely to have Divisions in 1944 running around with 1941 squads like in stock, but a decimated division (esp. Commonwealth) will take a fair bit of time to recover its strength?

Thanks in advance,
Mike



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 9:41:47 PM)

Yes



Dili -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 10:14:39 PM)

quote:

I think Dili meant for example a unit has a TO&E of 72 squads....it starts with 72 year 41 squads. Can it upgrade a portion so as to have 36 year 41 squads and 36 year 42 squads.....the answer is no...it can only have one or the other type of squad



Yes that was the question. Thanks. For devices with low prodution rates that could mean units with very low numbers, if all of them are set to get upgrades.



Jim D Burns -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 11:07:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Yes


Well I read it as maybe yes. If you have many casualties, the replacement pools will never grow high enough to replace a full division at once if you're drawing replacements, so those upgrades won't happen. So basically you're forced to turn off replacements for all units to make sure your pool grows high enough (and stays high enough) to be able to even upgrade in the first place.

I wish upgrades would just swap type within a units TOE and not be tied to the pools at all.

Jim

Edit: For the British you need to save up almost two years worth of replacements to even be able to start upgrading divisions...



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 11:23:02 PM)

Ah but the british also get one off injections from off map convoys.

Also if you divide a Div into 1/3rds then you need 108 Squads after the first Bde is upgraded then the pool now has another 108 Squads of the right type rinse and repeat.

BUT you are correct to say you should not be rebuilding British Divs remember early 45 all british Divs were withdrawn from lack of replacements and that was with only really 2nd/36th Bdes in the line - you commit 18th as well and you will struggle to keep them all up to strength - British Infantery replacements WERE short in Burma.

Over time you will find your Indian Divs (who get a nice healthy 60 - 90 Squads per month) start to shed British Bns and replace them with Indian Bns because of lack of replacements.

The squads thus freed up are available for redeployment into British formations




Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 11:25:00 PM)

As a one off there is also a special reinforcement in mid 44 a load of AA units disband and are converted to infantry replacements.



Jim D Burns -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 11:25:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

Ah but the british also get one off injections from off map convoys.



Thanks Andy, good to hear. Is there a schedule of these arrivals for amount and dates somewhere in the manual, so we know when we've tipped the scales on using the replacement pool squads?

Jim



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 11:31:32 PM)

Nope you wont know unless tyou check your reinforcment schedule.

For a start I am constantly tweaking it so any list would be out of date !!!



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/16/2009 11:34:56 PM)

p.s. for the avoidance of doubt IF you try to operate 2nd 18th 36th AND the Chindit Bdes so 12 British Bdes AND commit Indian Divisions while they still have lots of British Bns you WILL run out of replacements.

British Units are VERY fragile you need to release bns from the Indianisation process but a battle like I had with Pauk at mandalaygrad will quickly make the British combat inneffective.

You WILL be short of replacements having an adequate stock of replacement devices to sustain an offensive is critical



Xargun -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 2:54:25 AM)

That all sounds nice for you allied types - and I know this is now the Allied player Tips, but do the same rules apply to the Japanese ? And can we get some info on there side ?

Xargun




Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 7:20:25 AM)

No its different rules the issue for the japanese now is that vehicle and armament production are quite tight now - you will need to invest in more to keep units up to strength and with more device upgrades you will need more points of both.

Also a lot more smaller units appear so you get a constant drain on your pool - you also need to prepare for the heavy losses you take in places if you push it to far



Xargun -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 8:17:18 PM)

So basically once the allies save up enough 'new' devices they can then upgrade every unit they control - 1 per turn for free, correct ? Just doesn't seem right or is there more limits on where a unit has to be to do upgrades as compared to stock ? Also, so the old IJA and IJN squads that get replaced will then sit in the pool and never be used again ? or do they recycle as armament points allow ?

Xargun



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 8:54:24 PM)

Xargun thats correct for SQUAD TYPE devices only as long as they meet the supply and HQ requirements, are in rest mode and have sufficient in the pool they will upgrade when the previous devices are returned they are also upgraded and available to upgrade the next in the chain.


Please note as a result of this most allied devices have lower replacement rates because there is no need to force enough replacements for upgrades and devices now have production end dates.

Remember squad upgrades are not actually changing the men only the small arms they are equipped with e.g. a British 1943 Section has a share of a PIAT and an extra Bren Gun and a share of the sniper etc etc so their firepower increases a little compared to the 1941 variant.

Its most apparent in the Indian 41 to Indian 42 Sections - the Indian 41 section has a pitifull firepower rating because it represents the fact that platoons and companies in 1941 are short of LMG', 2" morters, grenades, boyes rifles basicaly Indian troops in Burma and Malaya are underequipped at start all the 42 upgrade represents is them being brough up to TOe

i.e. you are not replacing the men only adding some small arms.

Tanks never convert for free an 18 pounder arty piece is always an 18 pounder arty piece.

The Japanese get the same their squads will not upgrade all at once and they also upgrade when returned to the pool and the pool is checked beofre armaments points are spent but its less of an issue for them because the japanese don't really get squad upgrades (I think they get one in 43)



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 9:09:13 PM)

What this does mean is that most allied forces will use ugraded devices where in stock most used whatever they started the game with and most folks were happy with that because it gave them 3 or 4 times as many devices to use.

The only reason I sustained the fighting against Pauk at Mandalay in my game with him was because I had defacto 160 Indian Squads per month two lots of 80 and I was able to use them all.

In AE you only get the most current one so less devices but they will all be more or less up to date



Kereguelen -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 9:53:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

The Japanese get the same their squads will not upgrade all at once and they also upgrade when returned to the pool and the pool is checked beofre armaments points are spent but its less of an issue for them because the japanese don't really get squad upgrades (I think they get one in 43)



To clarify this a little bit:

There are two IJA Infantry Squad types in the AE, ordinary and reinforced infantry squads.

The reinforced squads are only found in (so called) reinforced infantry divisions and have more men and more firepower than ordinary infantry squads; they will upgrade (actually downgrade) in 1943 to another IJA Infantry Squad type (with less manpower and firepower, similar to 'ordinary' IJA Infantry Squads).

This was done out of historical considerations and will be explained (for the historically interested) after the release (not the right place here).

Please notice that this will not cost the Japanese any manpower (because the upgraded squads will end up in the pool). It will reduce the firepower of the reinforced divisions but it will also make them easier to transport (less shipping space required).

And while this may sound complicated, the Japanese player won't have to do anything, the upgrade will simply happen if reinforcements are turned on for the reinforced divisions.



bradfordkay -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 10:23:20 PM)

From an early post in this thread:

"My second priority is to turn off replacements for every unit on map."

Does this mean that the pre-game "replacements on/off" switch is no longer there?





Kull -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/17/2009 10:56:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kereguelen

And while this may sound complicated, the Japanese player won't have to do anything, the upgrade will simply happen if reinforcements are turned on for the reinforced divisions.


(Makes mental note to turn off reinforcements to reinforced IJA divisions in 1943)



InHarmsWay -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/22/2009 5:58:54 PM)

Phew, trying to keep up on all the forum traffic is getting difficult. It almost makes one think we are getting close to some sort of event or release!

Given my two esteemed PBeM opponents (Wa and Adm King) have once again voted me to be the Imperial Japanese THREAT to their decadent democracies (in two AE games... have I bitten off to much??), I had a question on industry balance. In Stock and CHS it seemed that the Japanese could easily keep up with losses by expanding about 40-50 armament and 30-50 vehicle points early on. Also I have been able to amass quite a bit of HI (1.5MM by late '43) by shutting merchant shipbuilding. Given I have a bunch of AK/APs running around it seemed a good trade. Is AE similar, or has the overall armament/vehicle production been tightened up? I.e. should we think about expanding anything, or will that really cripple the rest of the economy? I realize the supply / resources has been wildly changed, just was wanting to get a feel for the rest of the production without having to sit through 6-12 months of a PBeM before realizing I have screwed the pooch... (again).

Thanks!



Andy Mac -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (7/22/2009 6:08:58 PM)

I think the main thing thats different is the need to ship resources to the HI will mean witching off Merchant yards is a lot harder



Captain57 -> RE: AE Player tips - Allied (8/14/2009 12:15:38 AM)

OK, back on point if I've scanned this thread correctly. I am now going back to turn 1 and will do the following that I have now copied into a checklist:

WitPAE Check List for Allies 1st turn.

1. Groom the Land Units. I want about 90% of my land units to go into "rest" mode. This will enable them to recover their morale in 1-2 months. One item high on my list for patch one is a global button to enable setting ALL LCU to rest mode. At least with my playing style, have this capability once at the start of the game, would save a lot of time. But for now, I have to turn them off by stack of from the LCU master list. Also nine cities in China and India are undergarrisoned, so I need to react to those. A few critical engineering projects need to be started and combat units repositioned for anticipated activities in China, Burma and India.
2. Ships - Colorado and Warspite need to enter the ship yards at Seattle to remove damage. Damaged ships at Pearl also need to compete for shipyard space there. Removing minor floatation damage (pumping them out) takes precedence - and the space is limited - so priorities need to be set.
3. Turning off the repair of various resource, light industry, etc. centers mostly in China to prevent evaporation of supply.
4. Adjustment of LCU in the PI to prepare the defense
5. In the beginning - If you form a TRANSPORT TF on the US West Coast, DO NOT direct them to any ports other than Pearl, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane or Auckland. Use AMPHIB TF to transport Base Forces and units with Naval Support to the lesser ports first. The AMPHIB TF is not nearly as efficient as the TRANSPORT TF in terms of amount carried but the unload time at smaller ports is significantly higher.
6. Turn off repair of Allied controlled factories in China. They will suck up much needed supply.
7. Warspite and Colorado repair in Seattle
8. Replacements off for all units.
9. You get exactly 5 Battle ready formations as early reinforcements where you send them is critical. You must not commit until you know where the Japanese are going.
⁃ 7th Aus Div
⁃ 6th Aus Div
⁃ 18th Brit Div
⁃ 7th Hussars Group
⁃ 2nd RTR Group
10. Withdraw Allied Aircraft: A number of American air groups in the US are in restricted commands and have to be withdrawn within the first few months. Go ahead and get rid of them sooner rather than later...the pilots and planes are removed from the game when withdrawn, and so are of no use anyway....so to avoid forgetting to withdraw them and suffering PP penalties just get rid of them ASAP.
11. B-17s from San Fran to Lahaina near Pearl.
12. Get the Fuel Pipeline to OZ set up ASAP. There is very little fuel in OZ. Get the pipeline setup as soon as you can. I prefer to base my tankers out of Los Angeles. From experience - the last thing you want to do is get your carriers to OZ only to discover that they sucked up the last bit of fuel topping off their tanks....while at the same time your tankers haven't even gotten halfway from the west coast. In the DEI use every tanker you can find to run fuel to OZ from the DEI. Forget the oil...but bring the fuel. I use my smallish tankers and YO's to make local trips from Balikpapan to Java..then run tankers from Tjilitijap on the south coast of Java to Perth.



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