RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (Full Version)

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JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/25/2010 12:40:48 PM)

Files reuploaded, links updated.

Please redownload the Scen 43 and 42 ones too if your using the original v11 release, as they had old .cmt files.

Also, thanks to c_m_kwong and csatahajos for spotting these errors so quickly!

PS: Also, page 12. Wow.



Historiker -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/25/2010 3:20:43 PM)

Looks awesome! [&o]



FatR -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/25/2010 4:17:59 PM)

The scenario looks great, but, IMO, replacing almost all Zeros everywhere with Claudes, while Allies even get some extra squadrons is a bit too cruel. This means USN has carrier superiority from the get-go, because Buffallo is much less of a downgrade to Wildcat than Claude to Zero. And while older planes probably cannot sink IJN monster dreadnoughts, they still can mission-kill them and force them into shipyards for months (I hope this is what happened to some of Japanese superdreadnoughts in my current game of Enhanced BB scenario).
I would have placed about 4 USN carriers into PH, instead of the battleship line, if I wanted to faciliate "Jutland in the Pacific" gameplay. Otherwise, I'm afraid that the Allied player can win the carrier battle at DEI in January, and make Japanese invasions extremely costly at best, particularly because his LBA actually is good again Claude-equipped carrier air groups.



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/25/2010 11:14:00 PM)

While the USN has the better planes (by a small margin - the A5M5 is decent), their problem lies with lack of airframes and also with weak pilot quality (an issue on both sides).

Most of my tests show carrier on carrier engagements to be very inconclusive, and that carriers cannot handle dedicated LBA strikes early war - so charging into the DEI will be suicide.

The USN carrier force is a glass knife here until late '42, when the Wildcats and better Dautlesses arrive. Until then, it can strike hard, but cannot afford to replace its looses or get hit back. The IJN carrier force is little better until May when the A6M arrives.


However, after some discussion with csatahajos, theres will be a new version out shortly. v11b is a Ultimate BB only upgrade, and does the following;
-Moved CV Intrepid from San Diego to Pearl Harbour.
-Added 18" CD guns to both Pearl Harbour and San Francisco.
-Reduced aircraft capacity of both the Yorktown (82 to 78) and Essex (86 to 82) class carriers.
-Increased aircraft capacity of Soryu (78 to 81) and Hiryu (78 to 81) class carriers.
-Moved up A5M5 availability to 1/42 from 2/42.
-Moved up Hiryu and Unryu arrival dates.
-Changed Hiryu and Unryu fighter squadrons to arrive with A5M5 (from A6M2).
-Changed aircraft replacement rates (increased PBY-5, decreased F2F-2/3).
-Corrected starting USN CV groups experience (reduction by 3-5 points -> this is a bugfix, not a change. I forgot to do this for the original scenario, while the Japanese had it done.)

I will endevour to document all changes in this manner from now on. They will be on the Wiki when it goes up.

Also, a big thank you to everyone who downloaded (~350mb in half a day? [8D]) and supported this!

Scenario 44 - Ultimate Battleships (New version 11b!)
RAR - http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/8/1/2529503/AltWNT_Scen44_v11b.rar
ZIP - http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/8/1/2529503/AltWNT_Scen44_v11b.zip



FatR -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 12:09:08 AM)

Ah, I didn't notice that you have introduced the new modification of A5M with 12.7 mm MGs. As we all know, fighters armed with only 7.7 mms have a very hard time shooting down anything in AE, that's why I was concerned. Still, only two carriers have A5M5 on board, and entering production in 42/2 meant that Japanese still will be stuck with A5M4 during the entire initial expansion, so I like your changes for the new version.



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 12:54:43 AM)

There was a bug in the Ultimate BB scenario with Ise and Hyuga arriving in their 'Fast BB' congfiguration, and with 10/42 upgrades.

This has been corrected, new version available, v11c.

Scenario 44 - Ultimate Battleships (New version 11c!)
RAR - http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/8/1/2529503/AltWNT_Scen44_v11c.rar
ZIP - http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/8/1/2529503/AltWNT_Scen44_v11c.zip



ny59giants -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 1:54:41 AM)

ETA on Enhanced CV mod is now........mid-Feb?!?



Texas D -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 2:21:13 AM)

I would also like to know the ETA on the CV mods.



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 2:21:41 AM)

Something like that. Really, I've got most of the art for it as a lot of the new ships (Asama CA, Kawachi CB) are shared with Ultimate BB. The only thing I'm really missing is the 'fast' Yamato class, and the 'fast' Sagami equivalent from the early 1930s. Oh, and a fully converted 'fast' Ise class.

Apart from that its database work. I was planning to do the standard version first, but I can just as well do the Enhanced first. Any preferences?



ny59giants -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 2:36:14 AM)

I want the Enhanced, but that is the way I've felt since the beginning of your mod proposals.

If anything, when it comes to the Enhanced mods, I think an increase in AO/TKs for both sides are needed. All those large ships drink fuel in big gulps. [;)]



Texas D -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 2:36:55 AM)

My vote is for the Enhanced CV version first, please :)



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 2:39:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I want the Enhanced, but that is the way I've felt since the beginning of your mod proposals.

If anything, when it comes to the Enhanced mods, I think an increase in AO/TKs for both sides are needed. All those large ships drink fuel in big gulps. [;)]



Well, the Enhanceds dont really add any more large ships compared to the standards. Its more about better technology and industry.

I did consider adding more AO's to the Ultimate BB mod, but left it as is for now. I'll see about that later.

CV variant does include a much better fleet train for the IJN, in both versions.



Historiker -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 8:34:12 AM)

The experience from my tests was, that the KB can only deliver small punches in ultimate BB. In some tests against PH, no ship was sunk at all.
Is that intended?



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 8:43:16 AM)

Yes. Its a combined result of 4 factors;

1) Lower expereince for the Japanese airgroups
2) Slightly higher dud rate for Japanese aerial torpedoes
3) Much tougher targets in Pearl Harbour
4) More targets in Pearl Harbour

The 10 or so tests I ran, saw 1 BB/BC/CV sunk on around half of them, with 2 to 4 badly damaged (1+ year repairs), and the rest in varying states (one game had both Lexingtons ready to go, which I used to intercept KB - that didnt go so well...). The other half of the games had no sinkings, but still had ships out for a while.

The best result I saw was 3 ships sunk, though admittedly one was from a magazine explosion.


If you're playing Japan, it may be worthwhile to consider striking Singapore instead. Then again, can you really afford to leave the USN free reign with an intact battle line in the Pacific?



Akos Gergely -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 9:15:20 AM)

Can't wait to play the first turn today evening :D. Actually as Juan pointed out earlier, we wanted to give the battleship a status that i would have had barring an early WT, so with carrier aviation much less developed due to funding going mainly into the big ships.

Also I agree with Juan that attacking Singapore and taking out the two BCs there might be more worth for the planes lost. PH has a relatively big repair yard with plenty of supply so one can be sure that any ships not sunk right away will make a comeback sooner or later, and here BBs worth more, especially in 1942 (later we will see, but seeing the AA ratings and the reduced effectiveness of aerial torps it might be different from stock).

Finally it might worth a try to do a BB bombardment of Pearl with the 4 Yamatos at least, they might do much more damage (well in version b that's why Juan added the 18" coastal defense guns :D).



gajdacs zsolt -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 10:48:02 AM)

This may be a silly question... Can i play against the AI on this scenario?



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 10:57:30 AM)

Yes, the scenario includes all the AI scripts from Scenario 1.

However, as the AI cannot use ship conversions, none of these will occur. This means no AA refits for Japanese ships, no CVL/CVE conversions, and no rebuilds of the USN BBs. Apart from that it should work alright. I have admittedly not played the AI beyond the middle of January for Scen 44, so if something does crop up please let me know.

The AI may have some problems if playing as Japan due to the lack of a long range fighter for the first few months.



ny59giants -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 11:18:23 AM)

Nice job on the new mod and updated versions.  [&o][&o]
I just installed the latest versions. I was looking for what you did with Engineer Vehicles. Ind Eng Rgt will now fill out to 48 Engineers and 20 Engineer Vehicles [:)], while the Naval and AF Construction have Engineer Vehicles increased to 12 total. Japan is set to produce 100 Engineer Vehicles/month. More early war decision making for Japan. Who gets priority to fill out, Luzon, Malaya, or some headed for the SRA?? Those Ind Eng Rgt in Manchuria will get even a higher priority for PPs.
I love it. [;)]



Historiker -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 2:46:19 PM)

I'll ask my opponent whether he agrees to mod it in a historic way: A that strong Japanese Battleline would seek the descisive battle with its battleships, so turn one may see PH empty and the USN out at sea...

In your mods, Japan starts weaker than the allied side, especially as they get many strong carriers, soon. IMO, the Jap player MUST have a window of opportunity at least till may 42. I see this window in danger, now...

Anyway, that's just my opinion and can easily be modded by me. The work itself is amazing![&o]



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/26/2010 4:36:43 PM)

Hm, well, while I would agree that Japan has less room for mistakes, in all 3 of the scenarios Japan has clear advantages over the allies in '42;

BB Variant - A strong battleline backed by a strong CV force, with more CVs on the way. Your battleline is unmatched until '43, but the allies will eclipse your CV force by the end of '42 unless you sink some of them. Aggression required! This scenario has the least room for mistakes as Japan.

Enhanced BB Variant - An easier time because of the additional CVLs, higher pilot training rate, high pilot experience, and early radar/AA. Improved ASW and troop combat ratings will help later on. More room for error. Improved aircraft performance will also help.

Ultimate Battleships - You have to rely on your battleline and land based air during the first 2-3 months, which requires a new way of thinking. Your carrier forces are superior to the US ones, though only slightly. Japan will have an upper hand with regards to CVs from mid-late 42 because of the new arrivals and superior aircraft, and the allies cannot afford major losses until late 42. The British will be a major annoyance, and should be removed ASAP.


Both my game with csatahajos and ny59giants game with FatR show the Japanese advancing well, though it will be interesting to see when the tide changes in my game. Probably not for another 3-4 months (it is 1st April now), but I'm still wary.

Of course, you're welcome to adapt the scenarios for your own games, and if you do make any changes, I look forward to hearing about them and their effects.



Smeulders -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/27/2010 12:12:01 AM)

Hey Juan, was browsing to the Ultimate BB scenario and it seems that there is no delay to go from the original Wasp to the Wasp(AA) version. Is this WAD or have I missed a downside to this ?

Also found the "Price of Wales" instead of "PriNce" as a reinforcement for the Allies. *Insert a joke about the value of Wales*



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/27/2010 12:47:50 AM)

Thank you.

The Wasp issue is only a problem with the 12/41 conversion. The other take the correct amount of time, 40 days.

The Prince of Wales has been correctly named now.

I'll release a version 11d later, there are 3 further changes right now;

1) Increased cargo capacity of US C2 Lassen AE to 5500 (from 5400) -> This affects all scenarios
2) Added Dragon AE class to the US (Capacity 7920, 4 units available)
3) Corrected F2F-3 arrival date from 1/41 to 2/42



c_m_kwong -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/27/2010 9:27:41 PM)

I vote for enhanced CV as well!
Thanks the mods!!



ny59giants -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/28/2010 9:06:39 PM)

Juan,
Can we change the Mike fighter to Army?? It would be nice to have an Army fighter in 42 that can at least have a chance in killing B-17s. Only the Zeros has enough firepower to kill them and they are spread thin already.

If this is possible, you can restrict the Japanese abilty to overprodue them early by restricting the number of engines available. Since the Allies can have "WS Convoys" unload devices in Cape Town, is it possible for an AK or two to do the same at Tokyo with these engines until late 42 when actual engine production starts??  



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (1/29/2010 7:08:20 AM)

Probably wont happen, unless I do a scenario specifically aimed at better Army/Navy cooperation.

Interest in the He-100 was shown by the IJN, not the IJA. The lack of a solid fighter for the IJA in 42 is also one of the most interesting dilemmas the IJ player faces, as it means you must solve this issue one way or another.

One way to do this is to rely on the IJN units where the fighting is thickest, but this will drive up start wearing down your forces. You could also mass IJA fighters, even the Oscar can annoy B-17s in enough numbers, and the Tojo will quickly become lethal.

Make sure you upgrade all your Oscars to the Ki-43c variant ASAP, as it is notably superior to the -43a, and the the -43b.



Historiker -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (2/1/2010 7:34:35 AM)

Why have the Me-109s now armour?



JuanG -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (2/2/2010 2:35:59 PM)

The J2He (based on the He-100) does not have armour in its early versions, as the assumption was that the Japanese would strip it from the aircraft to increase performance. The J2He2 model and onwards do have the same rudimentary armour as all of the later Japanese fighters.

On another note, I've started work on the CV Variant. Ill put up some ship images and details later this week.



FatR -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (2/6/2010 12:02:14 PM)

J2He has a quite vulnerable liquid-cooling system. If it can have armor at all, then only on late-war models, when we can pretend that this flaw was fixed.

Anyway, I have a question: In my current game, I cannot set reaction greated than 1 for Allied sub (and only sub) task forces. Is this a bug?



ChickenOfTheSea -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (2/6/2010 12:09:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: FatR

J2He has a quite vulnerable liquid-cooling system. If it can have armor at all, then only on late-war models, when we can pretend that this flaw was fixed.

Anyway, I have a question: In my current game, I cannot set reaction greated than 1 for Allied sub (and only sub) task forces. Is this a bug?



This is a change implemented in the latest patches and affects stock and all mods, not just these.



FatR -> RE: Version 11 + Ultimate BB Scenario (2/6/2010 5:14:48 PM)

Didn't know that, thanks. I hope, this restriction will be lifted later in the war.

As a side note, I believe, that CV intended to be named Leyte is spelled "Letye" in scenario 43.



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