RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China

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Astarix -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 9:47:25 AM)
Some thoughts on sub warfare. My general strategy with sub warfare in AE is something along the following. I pick several places where I want to base my subs. Usually 1-4 major bases and then a couple of tender bases in somewhat out of the way locations that are still near the action. Use patrol zones, set 1-2 day loitering at each destination hex, with reaction radii of 3-6 hexes. When the boats run out of fuel or torps they will automatically head back to base to restock. About every 4-6 days of game time, I will check my all ships screens and filter only for my subs to check and see if any are particularly low on fuel but are not returning for a refill, or that are at 10 or higher system damage. Any that have 10+ system damage will become targets soon, so its time to send em home for repairs. 10sys usually repairs in only a couple of days. I then try to get about 8-16 subs in about a 200 hex region, with varying but overlapping patrol zones. Even with the high dud rate of the U.S. Non S Class boats you should get some hits. If you think he is going to keep KB in the area around Pago Pago, send a few more boats and see what happens. In the DEI I tend to focus the boats at deepwater choke points. This minimizes the chances they will get hit by ASW, but doesn't tend to effect their attack rate. Given where your game is at, you are going to have to focus your boats in shallower water, but if you spread them out in overlapping patrol zones along the lines of approach to Palembang, Java and in deep water ocean hexes around Borneo and the Mulaccas you might get lucky. In other words, in places you absolutely know, he will have to send his ships. Its important to have a reserve of subs that you can send out to fill the patrol zones of the subs that are heading back in for repairs. Historically the U.S. typically had 1/3 of the sub fleet on patrol 1/3 in transition to/from patrol and a 1/3 at base repairing or refitting. Lets say, for example, that I base 15-20 subs at Soerbaja. I will typically have about 12-15 of them on patrol and 5-8 in port repairing, or transiting for fuel or torpedoes. For the most part the subs that are heading to port for gas and torpedoes, will do this themselves and then return to the same patrol zones I have set up. Sometimes, I have to manually send them back, especially if they got hit by ASW. I've put fish into Kirishima, Kaga, at least 2 cruisers and numerous merchant ships in a game that my son and I are playing Hotseat. Kirishima and one of the cruisers were confirmed kills. From the combat reports I've been reading from the allied side, it really seems to me that allied subs tend to get very much underutalized due to the perception that its a pain to manage the subs given the return on results. But as I pointed out to Seydlitz from his AAR I really think his opponent is missing an opportunity to, if nothing else, annoy him endlessly with his subs. The Japanese just do not have enough escorts to both escort their invasion fleets, resource convoys and conduct effective ASW this early in the war. If you set up your sub warfare well, its really not that bad to manage. Just keep an eye out for damaged subs, if you keep them repaired the crews get a chance to get better and they won't miss as often. Its the high miss rate coupled with the dud rate that makes the subs feel so ineffective, but training the crews now, early in the war, will make your subs that much more effective when the torpedoes start exploding. Also remember that the Dutch and British boats have working torpedoes and the S class electric boats have slightly better torpedoes than the Ocean class boats. Great AAR so far. Jason

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 12:56:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sardaukar In WitP my rule for selecting sub captains was like: 1. High Naval skill 2. If experienced boat crew, high aggressiveness 3. If unexperienced crew, lower aggressiveness High aggressiveness and low crew experience, big chance for sub getting damaged or sunk (hig aggressiveness commanders love to attack on surface etc.). Low naval skill, high aggressiveness and low crew exp...almost doomed sub. Seems to work in AE too. Very good rules to live by.

seydlitz_slith -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 1:03:26 PM)
Your points are very good. One additional point worth adding here is that even with faulty torpedoes many of your American subs have good gun armaments. With an aggressive captain, an American sub can and will make a mid-ocean intercept of unescorted merchants with the intent of sinking them by gunfire.

aztez -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 9:40:57 PM)
The first thing to off the chest is to say thanks guys. Really good debate regarding important game issues. I will digest these thoughts and actually will implement these into my operations. As suggested I will post operational plans for submarines tomorrow or in the weekend at the latest. Had quite an long day. Woke up 6 PM and got back home 9 PM so I wasn't prepared on this. I will give some random initial thoughts though. Smeulders: I actually had some attacks but a lot of torpedo misses were reported. I think Dave has done excellent job in terms of ASW. A lot of submarine assaults were met with heavy ASW. He has simply put together big TF's which contain a lot PB, SC and other smaller vessels. I think this action has prevented quite a lot of the interceptions. Intresting views and I think these make a lot of sense in many ways. Xxzard: I noticed the same. For some odd reason dutch submarines are quite peaceful. I think it has to do with TF size and I actually fought few rounds with AI. The results has been quite an opposite when comparing those to this PBEM game. seydlitz: I take those russian subs have not been effective? I tend to agree on this since I kind of feel I could have much better job too. I don't know how much nerfed the submarines got with patch but they should do better than what they did in the old witp. Way much better... Yeah. Subs were deadly in the WWII. I don't have any books on this subject but watched quite an few documentaries. What I gathered the submarines really hammered the japanese merchant fleet and did sunk some naval assets too. I think I really should buy some books but the main problem is currently that the cash flow doesn't correspond with this idea. Most definately intrested on discussing the submarine warfare doctrine/strategy subject! As said though tonight is an bad night due to the busy day, I actually need to head out 6 AM tomorrow too. Thankfully I should be home much earlier. I'am actually going to recieve 4 more submarines within next week and to be honest I haven't paid proper attention to this area due to the massive scale of the game. Now that everything else is somewhat rolling time regroup and actually make this area as effective as possible. Sardaukar: That makes sense! Actually a lot of chance. This is definately something that needs to be done. Kind of what I have done with my ground units so far. Very simple but no doubt effective formula! Astarix: Thank you. I read your detailed views on chinese front. I like when people give ideas and pointers and have well reasoned explanations behind them. Sometimes you agree and sometimes disagree but it always brings up good debate which in the end open eyes for everyone around. I will go into greater detail tomorrow but at the latest weekend. Personally I think you are absolutely by stating that submarines are missed opportunity with allied player. Few thoughts. I like the new patrol command system since it speeds up things. I really didn't bother with stay patrolling on boundary setup but changed them loitering for 2 days now. It might help since they are not in constant movement. Makes a lot sense when you think about it. I kind of have few bigger bases where I have already sent AS ships and such. I like the ideas you stated though and we do think a lot of like. Basically when talking about reserve you pretty much implement the german doctrine? After the initial bashing I agree this sort of thing must be done since I do not want give out free passes while I got no submarines around. That is quite an record of ships sunk by submarines!!! I have lost quite an few ships myself to his submarines so far so that is not the way I want things to go. I have to utilize those precious Dutch submarines better but basically I have so far kept them on deeper waters. Now it is not possible though due to the situation around Borneo and Java. I think the FOW effect is greater when we talk about US subs compared to the british and dutch ones. Propably due to having less torpedo malfunctions. I will get back into this subject soon and the whole submarine campaign will get attention its deserves. Now few short combat summaries. As said it's late back here so these will just give out basic information regarding his moves.

aztez -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 9:42:17 PM)
China (february 25th and 26th 1942) The japanese continue their push towards Sian. I made an mistake here since the southern road is faster than the northern route I'am taking in order to setup proper defensive perimeter. Dave actually caught up those routed troops from previous turn. This is something I don't like since I have no doubts he will launch immediate ground offensive there. I'am still moving troops towards northern defensive line. The chinese move command is slow as an snail. I would love to have had some raildroads here since that is really key to any mobile defense in this region. [image]local://upfiles/15617/E29496DA73754D229CC1E33EDDC65FE2.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 9:43:08 PM)
ABDA (february 25th and 26th 1942) The skies above Soereabaja were full of enemy bombers in 25th. This time fortune paid key role here since these guys took off without escort fighters. Here are the raids in futher detail: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Soerabaja , at 56,104 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid spotted at 47 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-21-IIa Sally x 15 Allied aircraft B-339D x 11 CW-21B Demon x 6 75A-7 Hawk x 4 P-40E Warhawk x 40 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged Aircraft Attacking: 1 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet * Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Soerabaja , at 56,104 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid spotted at 41 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 16 minutes Japanese aircraft G3M2 Nell x 7 Allied aircraft B-339D x 9 75A-7 Hawk x 3 P-40E Warhawk x 30 Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 4 destroyed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on Soerabaja , at 56,104 Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 4 minutes Japanese aircraft G3M2 Nell x 23 Allied aircraft B-339D x 9 75A-7 Hawk x 3 P-40E Warhawk x 30 Japanese aircraft losses G3M2 Nell: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged Port fuel hits 1 Nice. In total intel screen indicated 100 ac's lost in the past two days. Take 50% off and we might have better realization on the FOW in play. There were couple of carriers moving towards south past Java. I wonder what their function will be on the incoming battle. Dave seems to have substantial naval assets docked in Makassar. Last turn the CAP had around 5 Oscars there. So, if I'am lucky those 30 Banshees might cause some real damage. More on this ambush on the next update. [image]local://upfiles/15617/7CBD5B02C5D94B2DADC0F42E11E4AEBA.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 9:44:11 PM)
Pago Pago (february 25h and 26th 1942) Japanese carriers stayed in the area and moved further south. This kind of reveals that those two submarine assaults were nothing but FOW. The carrier aircraft launched a couple of strikes againts Pago Pago. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on Pago Pago , at 148,161 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 20,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 45 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 16 D3A1 Val x 116 Allied aircraft P-39D Airacobra x 14 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed D3A1 Val: 5 destroyed, 20 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-39D Airacobra: 2 destroyed, 12 damaged P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground Allied ground losses: 72 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Vehicles lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Airbase hits 5 Airbase supply hits 7 Runway hits 14 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on Pago Pago , at 148,161 Weather in hex: Moderate rain Raid detected at 200 NM, estimated altitude 26,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 66 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 42 D3A1 Val x 82 Allied aircraft P-39D Airacobra x 30 Japanese aircraft losses A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed D3A1 Val: 4 destroyed, 14 damaged Allied aircraft losses P-39D Airacobra: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged P-39D Airacobra: 1 destroyed on ground Allied ground losses: 14 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Airbase hits 2 Runway hits 6 Not an bad effort by our pilots. We did shot down some very experienced enemy pilots! This carrier operation was not just an raid mission but actually these carriers were covering the landings at Savaii! [image]local://upfiles/15617/4E9AD6420C234159B96FDFB1E53ABD14.jpg[/image]

MechFO -> RE: Singapore falls.. ABDA cruisers engage enemy... battles rage in China (9/16/2009 10:23:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: seydlitz If you think about it, if he pushes up the road, capturing Sian and then continues his advance to the dot where the Sian- Lanchow road intersects with the road to Chungking, he can effectively eliminate all oil supplying your Chinese factories. Not quite correct. Urumqi has an oil field and refinery as well.

cfulbright -> RE: IJA advance.. Clark Field, Johore Baru captured (9/16/2009 10:50:21 PM)
Aztez, You mentioned that you replied Percival very early with someone else. Who replaced him, Wavell, or someone else? Wavell seems like the best general available. Also, did you keep "Dugout Doug" MacArthur in charge of USAFFE in Manila, or replace him also? Did you replace your US sub commanders from the beginning with more Aggressive commanders? I remember this as advice from original WiTP.

Sardaukar -> RE: IJA advance.. Clark Field, Johore Baru captured (9/17/2009 11:12:32 AM)
Your P-39s are doing quite well! 1:1 battles against carrier Zeros! Medals would be appropriate. [8D]

krupp_88mm -> RE: IJA advance.. Clark Field, Johore Baru captured (9/17/2009 12:17:52 PM)
quote: Your P-39s are doing quite well! The p-39 is an amazing plane.. it has a ridiculous fast top speed at low altitude.. it can easily outrun a zereo.. even if a zero was directly above a p-39 and dives on it the p-39 will easily outrun it just flying straight and level.. zero� max dive speed is less than a p-39's straight and level speed, in my experience below 10-7 thousand feet in the hands of an experienced pilot conducting high speed attacks the zero wouldn't stand a chance, it also makes an excellent interceptor. it can dictate the pace of the battle by choosing when to engage.. however.. above 15000 feet its performance becomes very poor, and id give the edge to the zero.. what altitude is he coming in at? i wonder if he sets his altitude high he'd trash your p-39s or does the game model (assuming hes using dive bombers) assume that he has to reduce altitude during attack? Its my opinion however if you put p-39s in with pilots with low exp the op-losses should be very high.. (is this modeled in game especially for p-39s? if not adding this would be a nice historical touch) the reason for the op-losses is the stalling (the last thing you want to do in a p-39 is turn during combat) because their engine is behind the cockpit their center of gravity is actually back of the wings.. while this makes them superb ground attack planes, and interceptors (no chance for engine damage from defensive fire) it also makes them death traps to stall in.. once a p-39 goes into a stall there's about a 50-50 chance of recovering the aircraft.. if you dont recover it.. it goes into a flat spin high-G death trap and your dead [image]http://www.fritzthefox.com/images/ww2guide_gfx/p39.jpg[/image]

Graymane -> RE: IJA advance.. Clark Field, Johore Baru captured (9/17/2009 1:30:07 PM)
I'm trying something different with my subs in my current game. Usually I keep them where the merchants are and hope for the best. This time, though, I'm using them more as scouts and early warning devices in the central and south pacific and DEI areas. I use them in screens 3-6 hexes in front of areas I want protected along a line every other hex or so. I'm doing that while I get a line of patrol boats and ASW assets lined up along my convoy lines. I'm finding I have a lot more flying boats on ASW patrols rather than naval search and I need to have some kind of eyes in front of me. With a react of 6, not much gets through the sub screen without detection.

aztez -> RE: IJA advance.. Clark Field, Johore Baru captured (9/17/2009 4:13:32 PM)
MechFO: Welcome aboard! Yeah, Urumchi has 50 oil but I think what seydlitz meant that the roads connecting to Urumchi into Chungking leads through Lanchow/Sian road junctions. Dave actually seized Hami with an armoured tank unit last turn so he is definately gunning for cutting chinese oil supply. cfulbright: Yes, I did put Wavell on charge early on. He had much better skill levels than Percival. I think this is an must change for anyone playing as allies. The "dugout" fought for the bitter end. I did not see any reason replacing him. Unfortunately I did change those submarine commanders at the beginning. Propably should have done it though. You might want to check pages 12-13 on this thread since it has very good views regarding submarine warfare. These ideas/views are coming from very experienced players and personally I intend adopt few of them into my submarine strategy. As promised I will post my reviewed strategy during the weekend. Sardaukar: The medal of honour recommendations have been sent and accepted. I was very impressed on how well they kept their feet againts those elite zero pilots. Very good job indeed. krupp_88mm: Welcome aboard! That is an nice pic! I'am no expert on aircraft data so it was quite educating too. I checked and my P39D's were flying 90% CAP at 17000 feet and the raids were coming in 11 000 / 13 000 and 20 000 feet! Actually the sweep mission was at 11 000 / 13 000 and the actual bombing runs were at 20 000 feet. I'am no expert on whether that combat was correctly modelled. However with low allied replacements we kind of need such brave men. I have changed their leaders and they now have +50 exp pilots. So, these guys are no rookies for sure. I have few low experience squadrons training in rear areas. It seems an good aircraft. Only major downside is their range which is very short. Graymane: I did sent maybe 1/3 of them chasing merchants. They didn't find much. Another 1/3 was sent to be used as picket line recon, Pretty how you have used them. The rest were patrolling combat areas. The only diffrence is that I keep the further out from base mostly. I would say that anywhere between 10-20 hexes since I would like to have early warnings regarding any invasions. I had a lot of Patrol ac's doing ASW efforts too but didn't notice much in terms bombings againts submarines. Instead I have some longer ranged bombers doing this now.

aztez -> RE: IJA advance.. Clark Field, Johore Baru captured (9/17/2009 4:14:27 PM)
China (february 27th and 28th 1942) The race towards Sian continues. As expected the spearhead routed our defenders 80 miles south of Sian. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 84,43 Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 75333 troops, 604 guns, 185 vehicles, Assault Value = 3024 Defending force 23340 troops, 202 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 351 Japanese adjusted assault: 624 Allied adjusted defense: 130 Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1178 casualties reported Squads: 3 destroyed, 81 disabled Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 44 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Guns lost 1 (0 destroyed, 1 disabled) Vehicles lost 7 (0 destroyed, 7 disabled) Allied ground losses: 8672 casualties reported Squads: 340 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 512 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 24 destroyed, 6 disabled Guns lost 6 (4 destroyed, 2 disabled) Units retreated 11 Defeated Allied Units Retreating! Assaulting units: 8th Ind.Mixed Brigade 9th Armored Car Co 41st Division 13th Tank Regiment 110th Division 12th Indpt Infantry Regiment 35th/B Division 37th Division 35th/A Division 51st Recon Regiment 3rd Division 6th Division 35th/C Division 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 1st Mortar Battalion Defending units: 7th Chinese Corps 92nd Chinese Corps 41st Chinese Corps 30th Chinese/A Corps 84th Chinese Corps 30th Chinese/B Corps 77th Chinese/C Corps 2nd Group Army 22nd Group Army 5th War Area 31st Group Army As said the southern road is much faster in this area. This most definately was miscalculation on my part. Dave also captured Hami in northern China. I did not spot 15th Tank Regiment before it suddenly made an assault here. Our defenders could not stop the tanks so the base was lost. AVG provided some aircover last turn and shot down few enemy aircraft near Sian. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 41st Chinese Corps, at 84,43 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 47 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 13 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 17 Ki-30 Ann x 9 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 17 Ki-48-Ib Lily x 23 Allied aircraft H81-A3 x 12 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-27b Nate: 2 destroyed Ki-30 Ann: 1 damaged Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 2 destroyed Ki-48-Ib Lily: 4 damaged Allied ground losses: 33 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on 41st Chinese Corps, at 84,43 Weather in hex: Clear sky Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 4 minutes Japanese aircraft Ki-27b Nate x 11 Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 12 Ki-51 Sonia x 13 Allied aircraft H81-A3 x 11 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-27b Nate: 1 destroyed Ki-43-Ic Oscar: 1 destroyed Ki-51 Sonia: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged Allied aircraft losses H81-A3: 1 destroyed Nothing spectacular but at least it was not lopsided affair this time around. [image]local://upfiles/15617/7A9750FFB21441F8A59B1AE126FA6DAD.jpg[/image]

aztez -> End of february 1942 (9/17/2009 4:17:13 PM)
Celebes (february 27th and 28th 1942) The A-24 Banshee squadrons did nice job once again. Last turn I moved 2 squadrons of them into Kendari. Luckily we launched couple of strikes and "hit" the following ships: xAK Utide Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires xAK Yasukawa Maru, Bomb hits 1 xAK Minryo Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire A couple of strikes were launched againts CA Kumano (docked in Makassar). Unfortunately no hits were reported. These 3 A-24 Banshee squadrons seem very valuable. Remember these pilots did excellent job at Mindanao few weeks earlier. We did not see any new airstrikes againts Soerabaja in last two days. I think those unescorted strikes hurt his squadrons in this region. A good reminder on the importance of the recon. I was very much suprised when I got the message that enemy is landing at Kendari. I had absolutely no recon into this invasion. I will the usual end of the month pics. The same ones as I have used so far. [image]local://upfiles/15617/04A28AD5E5394AD1A5072D6313D9C834.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: End of february 1942 (9/17/2009 4:18:13 PM)
The current intelligence screen pic... [image]local://upfiles/15617/A18D8289D2B848388C870A4FCC7067FC.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: End of february 1942 (9/17/2009 4:19:10 PM)
Total aircraft losses by model... [image]local://upfiles/15617/9F0B004DB77F4335B258D127C73B49B1.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: End of february 1942 (9/17/2009 4:19:52 PM)
Allied top aces... [image]local://upfiles/15617/BB8E9D186D274A03813F07207A42E9E9.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: End of february 1942 (9/17/2009 4:20:43 PM)
Current aircraft replacement pool (fighters / fighter bombers) [image]local://upfiles/15617/D56E712E7CEE4759B6FF469D09F1ADED.jpg[/image]

aztez -> RE: End of february 1942 (9/17/2009 4:21:33 PM)
Current replacement pools for all kind of bombers [image]local://upfiles/15617/3E71324DABFB49D5AC0BCA1498BBED7F.jpg[/image]

cfulbright -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/17/2009 6:36:34 PM)
Speaking of the supply bug (cities hoarding supplies and not distributing them to troops in hex), has anyone asked Matrix if it also affects Fortification construction?

Rob Brennan UK -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/17/2009 7:19:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cfulbright Speaking of the supply bug (cities hoarding supplies and not distributing them to troops in hex), has anyone asked Matrix if it also affects Fortification construction? Actually hording at the base would imo not affect base construction/repair as i assume the supplies needed come from the base reserve and not the units themselves (could very well be wrong though) . Aztez ,, im frankly amazed those banshees hit anything ! thier exp is horrible at start. well done. Are those P40's in java the same aussies (poor) pilots that turn up at the same time ? if so they have done well too. what are you planing on replacing them with? as iirc the banshees and P40's have to be withdrawn on 15th March ish. China might be a bit of a disaster at the moment and unless a miracle happens i think sians dead meat. but the up side is Dave's having real problems and is behind the AI in the DEI. Did you get the valuable AS's(at least one) to darwin ? well worth it imo. and as much supply as poss as well as fuel. On another note the Zero losses are horrific ! even if he built up to 100 production the delay in getting them running means that hes not realisitically increased his zero numbers on map at all. the ops losses [&:] while i expect to be high are astronomical. he must be running them ragged ! may also explain your success against them if hes happy to run at a high fatigue level. anyway, good luck as ever and great read.

aztez -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/17/2009 8:04:45 PM)
cfulbright: No. I think it was affecting only ground units. The forts kept on building slowly and pretty behaving way they are now. Just keep an eye on the troop supplies if you have altered those supply needed levels. I'am not sure whether this was fixed in the 1st patch. You should have no problems with this issue now that you know what to look for. Rob: Nice to see you again. Those Banshees have hit quite a few transports. Actually these guys are the only ABDA squadrons to hit anything so far. I didn't even bother to change their leaders. I'am using them around 20 000 feet and kept at least 2 squadrons together in order to gain numbers when they fly out. It has worked nicely. They actually might have hit enemy cruiser near Banjamarsin few turns back. Than again with the new FOW I don't know what they actually have accomplished. IJN losses still show +30 ships sunk including those two battleships. I'am very skeptical on these losses. Yeah. Those P40E's are the ones you mentioned. I upgraded the squadron leaders and it seems to have helped these guys out quite a bit. The initial bombing waves where repulsed with minium losses and we might see big air to air battles in the forthcoming turn or so. These guys do withdraw March 15th (or they are set to do so) but I just might keep them in the game since I doubt they are hard coded. The lack of allied quality aircraft is imminent when you at those replacement pools. I actually spent some PP's activating those high experienced fighters / divebombers I lost early on in this game, If the zero losses are such high than I'am very pleased. Again the FOW is screwing everybody around and I have noticed some changes in total losses week by week. I'am hoping to kill his pilots since I cannot outproduce or compete againts him in terms of aircraft build. Dave might be a bit behind but he is coming forward steadily. His ship losses are not high since he hasn't made many mistakes at all. As for china, Well, it is a mess. Actually to be more blunt it is an utter mess. I haven't written off the northern china just yet since I'am determined to go out fighting to the last men. We might need some good fortunes or miracles but just maybe these things will happen.

cfulbright -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/17/2009 9:33:12 PM)
Aztez - Did you withdraw Wavell before Singapore fell, or is he building a bridge in Thailand now? How about your top aces in Philippines air force? Did you withdraw/disband them, transfer them to Cagayan, or are they lost?

medicff -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/18/2009 2:07:27 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: aztez Rob: Nice to see you again. Those Banshees have hit quite a few transports. Actually these guys are the only ABDA squadrons to hit anything so far. I didn't even bother to change their leaders. I'am using them around 20 000 feet and kept at least 2 squadrons together in order to gain numbers when they fly out. It has worked nicely. They actually might have hit enemy cruiser near Banjamarsin few turns back. Than again with the new FOW I don't know what they actually have accomplished. IJN losses still show +30 ships sunk including those two battleships. I'am very skeptical on these losses. Yeah. Those P40E's are the ones you mentioned. I upgraded the squadron leaders and it seems to have helped these guys out quite a bit. The initial bombing waves where repulsed with minium losses and we might see big air to air battles in the forthcoming turn or so. These guys do withdraw March 15th (or they are set to do so) but I just might keep them in the game since I doubt they are hard coded. The lack of allied quality aircraft is imminent when you at those replacement pools. Yes those Banshees are awesome [:D] Regarding the withdraw date: If you withdraw/disband near a home base you will send all pilots and planes left back to the pool for use later. Hopefully by then you have moved some P40/fighter or Banshee/bomber groups from the US to OZ. You will have some banshee production to boot. The you can fill out those US groups (or upgrade others if you lost them) to replace the ones being withdrawn. The PP penalty is EACH turn and will severely hamper your accumulation if you don't withdraw them. China is a learning experience for everyone reading your AAR. thanks for that. Great moves setting up better airgroups in DEI and hitting him since he is behind (the dutch groups are sorely lacking in AE and will never have the effect as in WITP). I don't think he expected that maneuver. Overall you have done well for such early losses.

Xxzard -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/18/2009 3:43:17 AM)
What exp level are those Banshee pilots? If they are the groups I'm thinking of, then they come in at rather low exp, and can't hit a thing. Trust me on that last point, I tried using them with low exp, and they may have well have not flown any missions at all.

medicff -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/18/2009 3:51:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Xxzard What exp level are those Banshee pilots? If they are the groups I'm thinking of, then they come in at rather low exp, and can't hit a thing. Trust me on that last point, I tried using them with low exp, and they may have well have not flown any missions at all. They are the poorly trained hastily formed groups appearing in OZ. I trained them for a week but rushed them into service. Only 30 exp or so. Escort them well or put them up against no CAP and slowly they started getting hits and exp goes up quickly. (have to admit that was release and patch 1083, haven't tested 1084)

Smeulders -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/18/2009 9:42:44 AM)
I transferred 2 of those groups to bomb Japanese landings at Lea, between the two of them they sunk about 4 xAK in a single day of strikes, so far from useless. They do get chopped up once there is CAP though.

Sardaukar -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/18/2009 9:52:23 AM)
To cheer aztez up about his pilots, here is US carrier pilot song: Actually, found full song...[:D] Thus edited! [:D] I WANTED WINGS I wanted wings 'til I got those God-damned things No I don't want them anymore. They taught me how to fly And they left me here to die, I've had my belly full of war You can leave those zeros, for those God-darned heroes Distinguished flying crosses do not compensate for losses I'll take the dames While the rest go down in flames I've no desire to be burned Air combat's called romance But it makes me st my pants! I'm not a flyer I have learned. You can leave those Mitsubishis To those crazy sons-of-b***s. I'd rather lay a woman Than got shot up in a Grumman. I'm too young to die In a God-damned P.B.Y That's for the eager, not for me, I don't trust my luck To get picked up by a duck After I've crashed into the sea I'd rather be a bell hop Than a pilot on a flat top With my hand around a bottle And not around the God-damned throttle. Very enlightening! [8D]

vlcz -> RE: February 1942 begins... (9/18/2009 10:55:33 AM)
As smeulders says, if you manage to have them not intercepted are comparatively very good at this stage punishing too bold AKs, (but plan for extensive training asap as the situation allows). Being DIVE as opposed to level bomber is a really big bump in accuracy. This (retrained) units and a one group equiped with Helldiver biplanes (left from upgrades of carriers) are my favorite land based air in mid-42.

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