RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (Full Version)

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sPzAbt653 -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 4:03:05 PM)

quote:

I don't know much about how far the Germans got during the real thing.


From north to south - they didn't get Elsenborn or Malmedy. They moved thru Stavelot, Trois Ponts and Stoumont where resistance was met so they deflected toward Werbomont which was defended, then they got attacked in the rear around Trois Ponts and had to retreat behind the Salm River. Further west they crossed at Hotton and LaRoche, took Marche, and moved thru Rochefort to Celles, where they were stopped. Moving south, they were stopped at Bastogne, and eastwards they were stopped at Martelange, Eschdorf, Diekirk and Osweiler.



sapper32 -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 4:50:46 PM)

I will have to try this one against the PO and see how i do,cant say ive tried a bulge scenario before so should be fun.



sPzAbt653 -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 5:22:43 PM)

Hi Sapper,

The scenario is much easier from the Allied side, but not as much fun I think. Much better to play the Germans, but while the first couple turns are a romp, you have to keep in mind that each turn the Allies get stronger and the Germans get weaker. By turn 40 you have to switch over completely to the defense. Stay focused and concentrated! Have fun!



sapper32 -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 5:42:42 PM)

Germans it is then.is version 6.0 the latest before i start?



larryfulkerson -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 5:52:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper32
Germans it is then.is version 6.0 the latest before i start?

That's my understanding. And one of the new scenarios coming out with the 3.4 patch is Autumn Fog 1944 which is version 6.0 That's the one I'm using for my playtesting



sPzAbt653 -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 6:11:25 PM)

Yes, 6.0. A change to the German side to help protect from the Allies breaking thru as seen in Mr. Fulkerson's earlier AAR will be the only change for 7.0. So far I've seen nothing else to change. 7.0 will be available for 3.5 !



larryfulkerson -> RE: turn 25 and it's all over for the germans (9/17/2010 8:37:58 PM)

I ran the PO v. PO test again and this time the Germans did better in 26 turns:

[img]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//po v po movie 2.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> turns 91 through 100 (9/18/2010 11:07:13 AM)

Here's the mini-movie for turns 91 through 100. You can see that the Allies have trounced the Germans but good.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/F9CF131DFAAB4A1AA8EA9FF8381AC413.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> Allied PO playtest (9/19/2010 1:23:00 AM)

I've started over playing as German against the Allied PO.  I'm on turn 6 already and it's going better than last time I think.  I'm capturing key bridges before Elmer can blow them for the most part but I have been able to repair the blown bridges pretty quickly after I arrive at them.  I'm thinking of pushing to the Muse River in the center and forming two wings with Panzers at their core to sweep north and south along the Muse River blowing bridges so that I can concentrate mostly on destroyiing the Allied units east of the Muse before turning on those units on the west side of the river.

Here's the turn 5 front lines:

[img]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//turn 5 front lines.GIF[/img]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/19/2010 4:16:03 AM)

I put together a collection of the AARs for this second game of Autumn Fog.  Here's the link to download the AARs for the first 5 turns:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//AF AARs game 2 turns 1 - 5.zip



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/21/2010 5:59:05 AM)

Here's the link to the collection of AARs for turns 6 through 10:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//AF AARs game 2 turns 6 - 10.zip



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/21/2010 6:37:57 AM)

Here's the link to the collection of AARs for turns 11 through 15:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//AF AARs game 2 turns 11 - 15.zip



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/21/2010 2:24:37 PM)

Here's the mini-movie of the first 20 turns:

[img]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//mini movie turns 1 - 20.gif[/img]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/21/2010 2:48:04 PM)

Here's the next installment of AARs.  This collection is for turns 16 through 20:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//AF AARs game 2 turns 16 - 20.zip

In the game I'm across the Muse River in several spots.  I found out that I can put an engineer unit on a river and watch Elmer move units there to block any invasions across that River.  So I'm putting my Pontoon units on the Muse River in different spots so Elmer can line his units up along the river next to mine.  I have no intention of having to invade across the river but it's comforting knowing Elmer is using a lot of expensive units to just watch the war go by turn after turn.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/21/2010 10:15:22 PM)

Here's a view of the front lines as of turn 25.  I'm across the Muse river in several spots and it's hard having to wait until I have enough units to be self supportive in case I run into some really big assembly of Allied units before running off to further adventures to the west.  I'm planning on trying to see if I can't make some headway toward Antwerp. 

[img]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//front lines turn 25.GIF[/img]




larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/22/2010 2:37:48 PM)

Here's a collection of 8 or 9 of my Autumn fog game 2 SAL ( saved game ) files.  I guess maybe only Steve would want to use them but if any body else does too then you're welcome.

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//AF game 2 SAL files.zip



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest (9/23/2010 5:35:32 PM)

Here's the next collection of AARs.  This is for turns 21 through 25 and you can find it here:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//AF AARs game 2 turns 21 - 25.zip

I'm advancing on Antwerp and it doesn't look like there's any defenders yet.





larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 27 (9/23/2010 6:22:22 PM)

I have interdicted the supply lines to the northernmost Allied units. It's only a matter of time until they are dead. Antwerp will be out of defenders then???

[image]local://upfiles/16287/06BC627C82CC4C798BAF24F6B358DB3D.gif[/image]



sapper32 -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 27 (9/23/2010 10:03:58 PM)

Hi Larry just checked out 21 to 25 looks like Elmer has had it [:D]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 27 (9/24/2010 1:40:21 AM)

quote:

Antwerp will be out of defenders then???


There are a few Allied divisions north of the map area. SHAEF may recall them to defend Antwerp, because if Antwerp falls, the Allied supply situation will be crippled. [:@] or [:D] , depending on which side you are rooting for.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 27 (9/24/2010 2:59:01 PM)

I have to stop everything and reveal my game winning tactic for the far north bridge crossing. I parked a really strong Panzer unit on the bridge and then destroyed the bridge so that the Germans could attack with only "foot movement" kinds of units and from the beginning of the game he has been surviving at least two sometimes three attacks per turn. He's still in good health and ready to go on the offensive at any time and if it weren't for my being able to put the stopper in this bottleneck I would have had to deal with some really really strong Allied units and the game would have turned out differently. I used the forces allocated to cross that bridge going west, to instead, attack south against the Aachen defenders to good effect. Those Allied forces trying to cross that bridge didn't turn to the west/southwest until I cut their supply lines. I'm not sure if they are going to attack to the west/southwest or if they are just going to defend in place yet.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/04AA6EE403E34AD6AEFA656BDCC26D63.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 29 (9/24/2010 5:58:13 PM)

Also, I find that I'm running into major traffic manangement problems. The terrain isn't mine yet so there's the hex entrence costs, the terrain is frequently rough so there's a higher than "normal" cost to traverse the hex, and as a result of these factors the units I try to move can only manage a single hex sometimes two. As a result I've taken to using multiple routes and letting tired units sit out the turn without moving or anything.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/B0FC243290ED434FAF156D0BB27B4AB4.gif[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 29 (9/25/2010 12:10:20 AM)

Are you getting any interdiction attacks while moving?



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 29 (9/25/2010 1:13:42 AM)

I think there were a couple of times that one of my moving units got shot at and of course there is that period just before combat when the Allied interdicters go crazy attacking random units moving or not for about four attacks BUT for the most part Elmer is concentrating on my air force.  He uses every aircraft he has in each attack, seemingly, and usually gets attack results of something like 5% to my 45% losses.  I'm running short on operational aircraft.


[image]local://upfiles/16287/CAAC5C24C313401E8353B23A50DF5FFC.gif[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 29 (9/25/2010 3:27:46 AM)

Elmer has a lot of air units that are in good shape but don't appear to be doing much (all in the green). When I play the Allied side I have to rotate them (to rest) to keep them all from being in the red. Maybe I've got some setting wrong, or something. The Allied airpower should have an effect on the Germans, as when the weather wasn't bad the Germans said they couldn't move during the day without bringing the Jabos down on their heads.

I find that putting enough fighters on Air Superiority to keep ahead of the German AS level, putting the rest of the fighters on interdiction, and all the bombers on combat support, makes it difficult on the Germans to get anything done. Not impossible, but a nuisance.

[image]local://upfiles/24850/310F7D50ACDB4283BF2338E6F9FD9BEE.jpg[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 29 (9/25/2010 3:30:49 AM)

quote:

The terrain isn't mine yet so there's the hex entrence costs, the terrain is frequently rough so there's a higher than "normal" cost to traverse the hex, and as a result of these factors the units I try to move can only manage a single hex sometimes two.


Plus the blizzards affect movement. [:'(]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 27 (9/25/2010 10:29:17 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sapper32
Hi Larry just checked out 21 to 25 looks like Elmer has had it

Um......there's a tiny problem. Here's the front lines as of 50% through turn 31. The question is if I should I try to destroy the Allied troops in the far right south corner? I know the event list calls for the appearance of some Allied troops to appear there if I get too close but so far they haven't appeared and I'm thinking that they won't if I don't push the issue with them. So I'm wondering if I should mount an expedition down there to destroy them or just do the rest of the Allies and maybe come back to this issue at a latter time if at all. What do you think?

[image]http://www.fileden.com/files/2009/12/14/2688812//game 2 front lines small.GIF[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 31 (9/25/2010 11:08:42 PM)

I think maybe I might have found part of the problem with Elmer leaving holes. He tends to "clump" his units together to get "unit strength parity" with my high powered Panzer unit by ganging up several units until their combined strength gives it a fighting chance against my Panzer and doing that leaves holes in his lines. It's just a theory but maybe that's what's happening. Here's an example: When Elmer first moved his units into this area they were spread out and formed a line but the next turn when confronted by my Panzer(s) he clumped his units and voila` there's a hole.

EDIT: Hey.......what's the record for the number of posts by a member? I've got 7377 now. Is that a record?

[image]local://upfiles/16287/50183DE4E9084B10B11C50C7BAF616B4.gif[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Allied PO playtest turn 27 (9/26/2010 12:12:05 AM)

quote:

What do you think?


I'd clear the map starting up north and working my way south. That ensures you get stronger as you go, while ELmer has less room for manuever. Then any extra units that arrive in the south will have little or no effect. Then at some point you will have the map locked up and can declare unanimous victory!

Did the surrounded units up north around Weert make any attempt to break out? I hate supply points but I might need to put a couple on the northern map edge.



larryfulkerson -> Supply points needed around Wert (9/26/2010 1:14:14 AM)

Um......the dudes around Wert didn't even make it known I was in their rear until I cut their supply. Some supply points are definately needed, at least one around Wert maybe. I'm attaching a picture of the turn 32 situation. I've started to shrink the perimeter some and they are fighting back sporatically except for around the bridge which seems to be a key objective or something.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/4CA22D38017844499C355285F1FF20A3.gif[/image]



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