RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (Full Version)

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Fishman -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 12:57:42 PM)

I notice you STILL continue to avoid the issue of what the cap is SUPPOSED to be. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY: WHAT IS THE CAP?



taltamir -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:10:33 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

I notice you STILL continue to avoid the issue of what the cap is SUPPOSED to be. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY: WHAT IS THE CAP?


don't be so angry... they said there will be a slider in 1.05 so that you could set the level of corruption and even turn it off completely.
This means the issue is resolved.



Erik Rutins -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:12:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman
I notice you STILL continue to avoid the issue of what the cap is SUPPOSED to be. SPIT IT OUT ALREADY: WHAT IS THE CAP?


What is your problem?



Kruos -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:13:25 PM)

It is beginning obvious that this forum lack some kind of moderation...



taltamir -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:17:33 PM)

He is being rude and insulting and aggressive; I don't know what his problem is but he needs to relax a bit and not be so angry all the time (and not take out that anger on the good guys are codeforce)



Fishman -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:19:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What is your problem?
I don't have a problem, I just don't like when people won't give straight answers. Now you seem to have posted an answer, so that's resolved.



Bartje -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:23:51 PM)

I think the AI will still beat you in GDP.

event when it's capped at 75%

...


You suck at DW ...


...


[;)]



taltamir -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:25:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fishman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What is your problem?
I don't have a problem, I just don't like when people won't give straight answers. Now you seem to have posted an answer, so that's resolved.



http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2465310
75%



Fishman -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:33:41 PM)

Yes, I saw. That message was posted AFTER I yelled.



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 1:57:31 PM)

I think the AI will keep beating me in GDP too.

I'm still trying to figure out why.

My guesses are:

1. Monarchy simply isn't a great government type.

2. The AI empires are smaller and corruption is less of an issue.

3. The GDP formula is calculated bizarrely.

It really doesn't matter, but it is interesting.



taltamir -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 2:11:08 PM)

monarchy really isn't a great government type.
Are you prioritizing the acquisition of luxury resources, particularly of kinds you don't already have?



Erik Rutins -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 2:14:36 PM)

Monarchy is not a great government type if GDP is your primary concern. Other government types are much better at generating money.



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 2:24:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Monarchy is not a great government type if GDP is your primary concern. Other government types are much better at generating money.


Well, my primary concern is being a monarchy. :)

So I'm not min/maxing this category at all. It was just odd that the AI had so few people and colonies and yet three of them had a higher GDP.



Erik Rutins -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 2:37:44 PM)

What races/governments are the AI empires that are higher GDP than you? Could you post a screenshot or two from the diplomacy screen? If you think something is actually off, please upload a save and we can certainly take a look.



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 2:44:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

What races/governments are the AI empires that are higher GDP than you? Could you post a screenshot or two from the diplomacy screen? If you think something is actually off, please upload a save and we can certainly take a look.


I will load up this old savegame and post that screenshot tonight. It's the same game as posted on the earlier pages. I'm waiting for the beta patch to play any further.



taltamir -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 3:14:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Monarchy is not a great government type if GDP is your primary concern. Other government types are much better at generating money.


Well, my primary concern is being a monarchy. :)

So I'm not min/maxing this category at all. It was just odd that the AI had so few people and colonies and yet three of them had a higher GDP.


There are benefits though... republic and democracy generate more money, but also more war weariness...



Dadekster -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/11/2010 5:48:43 PM)

I like republic myself and it seems to work for those that play a live and let live method with enough juice to fight a war quickly enough to settle any 'issues'.

oh and I find the shouting and in general lack of ettiquete to be completely uneccessary in here. I like to think we're adults discussing a video game in here not health care or AZ immigration issues. [;)]



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 2:49:27 AM)

Actually, maybe something is up or corruption in 1.04 is very serious.

In that savegame, I'm actually 5th in GDP, despite having significantly higher population. Here are four screenshots of relevance.

[image]local://upfiles/31707/34A5F0AD6987411C83785D7D721F1759.jpg[/image]



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 2:50:05 AM)

Terran Empire summary (player)



[image]local://upfiles/31707/700152052B0146F395DA23B993A13862.jpg[/image]



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 2:50:34 AM)

The #1 GDP.

By the way, note the AI's reputations. This sort of shows the perpetual AI v. AI war issue I brought up in another thread.



[image]local://upfiles/31707/7B2C2787667F4F3C90C8016C380EA835.jpg[/image]



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 2:51:18 AM)

The #2 GDP.

There are two other AI empires with higher GDP, but I think it would be repetitive to show them.



[image]local://upfiles/31707/2AD064CB093343FB916DC59E41DB1521.jpg[/image]



Fishman -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 8:15:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: jscott991

Actually, maybe something is up or corruption in 1.04 is very serious.

Corruption is very much murderously horrific in 1.04, which is probably why your income has basically evaporated: At this point, population growth doesn't contribute positive income, it contributes negative income as it increases your corruption faster than the additional population contributes income. Plus, as you push 100% corruption, population becomes increasingly useless.

It makes you miss the way 1.03's ship design AI suggested Nuclear Exterminators for your spaceports...because you sure could use them!



Kruos -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 9:37:21 AM)

Hmm... as far as I understand the game eco, corruption seems to be only soustracted localy to each planet GDP just before the income calculation, so it seems that, normaly, there is no link between corruption and low GDP (= two independant distinct things).

I will take a look at your interesting save jscott, in order to well understand what is occuring here. I have the feeling that, maybe, you huge amount of colonies is the key here (too much colonies in regards of luxuary ressources supply and consequently many of your colonies are underdevelopped, which means low GDP contribution for them...?). Dont know...



Starfry -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 1:07:37 PM)

I figured out why you have such a cruddy GDP, jscott. In your game, I cut all taxes to 0% (I'm such a nice guy, vote for me for president of the world) in order to boost the private sector economy. The economy did tank but the trade ports kept the economy going a bit for a short term. This short term loss helped get the private sector get enough money to equip the freighters with the latest technology then pretty much after a couple years, the GDP went up to 2501 with 160 colonies and 83% corruption at some high output colonies.

I have been thinking that the AI autotaxing is drawing too much from the private sector economy and hindering the AI from expanding further and becoming a threat.



Bartje -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 1:58:32 PM)

Aha; So he tanked the private sector, how considerate! [;)]



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 2:53:31 PM)

I wonder why, though, the AI would autotax my private sector into oblivion, but wouldn't autotax the private sectors of the AI empires in the same way.



Fishman -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 2:54:42 PM)

How DOES taxation affect GDP anyway? As far as I can tell, private sector income is calculated by pop*dev, and then you skim a percentage of it for taxes. What effect does taxation have on the GDP, therefore?



Kruos -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 6:29:26 PM)

quote:

How DOES taxation affect GDP anyway? As far as I can tell, private sector income is calculated by pop*dev, and then you skim a percentage of it for taxes. What effect does taxation have on the GDP, therefore?


I think that GDP is not affected by taxation. I think that GDP is calculated from pop*dev (='value') and something else (maybe something like planet type, size, distance from the capital, etc).

Concerning the save, I loaded it and I have to say that the jscott planet GDP is very odd. It is something I have never seen in my games. Incredibly low. In this save all my asumptions concerning eco mechanism are false... maybe something is broken in this save (your GDP, planet by planet, is so strangely low..)?

I am in the fog. ^^



ceyan -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 8:17:59 PM)

quote:

I think that GDP is not affected by taxation. I think that GDP is calculated from pop*dev (='value') and something else (maybe something like planet type, size, distance from the capital, etc).


Private Sector Income is the value of your planets. Taxes are taken out in the Expenses section of the Private Sector. And its corruption/inefficiency (and everything that it modifies) which affects your planetary value.

quote:

I wonder why, though, the AI would autotax my private sector into oblivion, but wouldn't autotax the private sectors of the AI empires in the same way.


Based on your screenshot back in Page 3, it isn't taxation which is killing your private sector, its low planet GDP and high ship maintenance. Notice in Cindar's update his Private Sector may still be in the hole (although about half as bad), but he's increased the planetary GDP by 50% and his colonies are paying double in taxes versus your original save.

However, that goes to show that it isn't the fact that the AI is taxing you (or the AI Empires) to death. Which brings us back to corruption (inefficiency, whatever its going to be called) causing low planet GDP since the cap isn't working properly in 1.0.4.5.



jscott991 -> RE: AI Kills Me in GDP (5/12/2010 8:34:04 PM)

It probably is just corruption.



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