RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (Full Version)

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rickier65 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/28/2010 10:26:52 PM)

I've ordered the Pz Platoon to advance toward the treeline, which is on the crest of the hill. But I've order them to stop before the crest. I've angled the left section toward the woods. I'd like to spread them out a bit. That T34 we spotted earlier is around somewhere, and I bet he has some company with him.

Rick

[image]local://upfiles/91/45D053CD0E4C46A99D685B24B119945C.jpg[/image]



rickier65 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/28/2010 10:36:09 PM)

During the orders excution things are quiet. I don't draw any fire. I do notice that the CO HT is making better time on the road, than the two HT's in the woods.

I'll keep moving forward during the reaction phase.

rick



[image]local://upfiles/91/0BD2CFE9AE6D4300B8FFB24558030173.jpg[/image]



rickier65 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/28/2010 10:52:40 PM)

During the reaction phase A T70 near the farmhouse open fire on the Pz III on my far right. It returns fire. I tlooks like that Pz III is running low on APHE ammo.

Rick


[image]local://upfiles/91/CD400A4EB6EF4DD68F29BAFEE1A9EEA3.jpg[/image]



rickier65 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/28/2010 10:55:27 PM)

Along the road into the village, the 3rd Plt lead HT is almost to it's destination. Maybe I should dismount and advance on foot now? I might not want to get too far in front of the rest of my platoon though.

Rick


[image]local://upfiles/91/23C9F5086DAB47CA82DF3FE50E228E87.jpg[/image]



lancer -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/28/2010 11:40:33 PM)

G'day,

In the screenshot of the panzers above (post 93), the green command lines for the platoon are shown as green/yellow or alternating shades of green.

What does this indicate?

Cheers,
Lancer



junk2drive -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/28/2010 11:54:15 PM)

Green/Green subunits can follow any order.

Green/Yellow subunits are restricted on orders. Example: Tank with track damage cannot Rush, Tank with gun damage cannot target.

Green/Red subunits cannot follow movement orders. Example: Troops mounted in structures or transport cannot move until dismounted, Tanks immobile cannot move.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 3:35:23 AM)


Is that actually the company HT out front? That is a gutsy move,where are you going to unload?



rickier65 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 5:59:46 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812


Is that actually the company HT out front? That is a gutsy move,where are you going to unload?



good question - I think I'd dismount where they are and advance on foot while the rest of the platoon caught up.

thanks
Rick



z1812 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 6:33:51 PM)

Hi Rick and Eric,

The screen shot shows a secondary road to your left. I would recon that road and be ready to exploit it, if possible, thereby flanking the village.

Regards John



british exil -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 6:39:15 PM)

quote:

The screen shot shows a secondary road to your left. I would recon that road and be ready to exploit it, if possible, thereby flanking the village.


The secondary road to the left is a steam. Bordering the stream is quite a bit of mud which would slow the advance.

Mat



z1812 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 6:44:48 PM)

Hi Mat

quote:

ORIGINAL: british exil

quote:

The screen shot shows a secondary road to your left. I would recon that road and be ready to exploit it, if possible, thereby flanking the village.


The secondary road to the left is a steam. Bordering the stream is quite a bit of mud which would slow the advance.

Mat


What?....no amphibious vehicles......[;)]

Thanks for pointing that out Matt.

Regards John



rickier65 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 7:12:15 PM)

Erik was expecting to be be back in command today I think. So I think I'll let him brave the crest of the slopes the units are approaching now.

Thanks
rick



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/29/2010 11:00:26 PM)

Thank you very much, Rick!

I'm back and will run the next turn tonight.



Tophat1815 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 12:26:19 AM)

Note how the company HQ is showing the way and inspiring by example! 



heinrich55 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 12:47:11 AM)

Erik,
This is a really neat way of generating interest. We get to see some of the mechanics of the game actually in play, with the added benefit of seeing just how nice things look. I've been following this thread for a while now, and finally got past some registration hurdles, so now I can participate as well. Y'all have a very sharp product here, and the anticipation for release is quite contagious, from what I see on the other threads as well as this one.

While Tophat1812 is right about the heroic example the HQ is providing, I'd hate to take the hit in morale and command delay if he were surprised by some hidden AT gun. I'd say have them stop for now, maybe stay loaded, and have the flank platoons get the first look. If there was some way, I'd wheel the infantry on the left side of the road faster than the ones on the right, as the right side looks like they might run out of wooded cover soon, as it seems to thin closer to the village on that side.

Heinrich55



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 1:49:16 AM)

Hi guys,

Here are the plots for Turn 10. I switched the 3rd Platoon to Engage orders, with the HQ unit on Engage->Hold, which will allow it to auto-target any enemies that it sees and the other two on Engage->Move to catch up and take up flanking positiong.

The current build has fatigue set a bit too high for infantry. The newest beta build addresses this, but is not compatible with previous saves so we just need to accept that our infantry will need to take some rest breaks for this AAR. I'm keeping 1st and 2nd Platoon stationary this turn.

I also changed the orders for the Panzer platoon to Engage. We've now spotted two T-70s where we thought there was only one left. This means there were actually seven that we were fighting. Engage orders allow me to keep the currently targeted Panzer IIIL stationary on Engage->Target while the rest of the platoon moves forward with Engage->Move. It's the most tactically flexible base order for a platoon.



[image]local://upfiles/9/E0EF7252DF104BE9B3A744FBB2BB464D.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:01:01 AM)

Ok, the results of Turn 10 are in. We scored a track hit on a T-70, but our rightmost Panzer is now out of APHE, but still has 10 APCR shells. The rest of our platoon is getting low but still ok overall in terms of ammo.

One of our Panzers on the left comes to where it can see over the crest of the hill and spots and is targeted (and shot at) by the T-34 we spotted earlier with our infantry. We do have a hull down position against that T-34, but the range (623 meters) means that we'd need a lucky turret shot to do anything. Probably a waste of ammo unless we find a way to close the range. None of our other Panzers can see the T-34 yet, but I need to move a few up a bit further to get perfect hull down positions.




[image]local://upfiles/9/98B7DB45EDC945EB86A0BEF88E719571.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:03:07 AM)

Here's a view from the T-34 towards the hull-down Panzer it is targeting. Given previous advice, I'm going to get the rest of the Panzer platoon to where it has hull down positions and finish getting 3rd Platoon deployed before pausing again.




[image]local://upfiles/9/98DD0C0737E94495B3F1B0B6AE0BA9BB.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:09:40 AM)

Here are the plots for Turn 11. I switch the Panzers to Defend so that I can order the Panzer that has the T-34 in sight to only fire if it has a "Good Shot". I don't want to waste ammo and the Defend order still has a Move option that allows me to adjust my platoon to those hull down positions. I also use this to move the rightmost Panzer closer to the T-70s, where its APCR will have better penetration and accuracy. I don't want to waste the remaining shots and I think I can weather a turn of return fire from them at this range (currently about 490 meters).



[image]local://upfiles/9/83C7567FDB034D889D885409D99A0AD6.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:14:14 AM)

Well, this is interesting...

No sooner did our Panzers pull into those positions on the crest than they started taking long range pot shots from _another_ T-34, this one on the other side of the village. He's got a lovely view through a gap in the trees at the edge of the crestline that we're hull down behind. This is a flank shot - he has little chance of hitting, but if he does it's likely to be bad.



[image]local://upfiles/9/797492AD5D5C43DA849C1E82CAC1C448.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:15:58 AM)

Here's another view of our latest predicament:



[image]local://upfiles/9/31AD6613A3A240E9B6C1B68AA522C7F8.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:18:03 AM)

This is now the Reaction phase, so I'm going to React by withdrawing the Platoon HQ Panzer behind the crest and then wait for your advice for the upcoming Orders phase. I think that if we adjusted our hull down positions to put those four trees on the left flank of our two central Panzers, we could deny the other T-34 those flank shots. However, we are still not at a good effective engagement range for the first T-34.



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:24:30 AM)

Some excellent news! One of our Panzers scored a perfect hit on the first T-34 it was engaging at long range. A very nice roll on the variable penetration table must have resulted in a critical hit. Looks like we put a APHE shell into a weak spot in the front hull. Penetrating hit resulting in one destroyed T-34!

That should make things a bit easier.

The withdrawing Panzer did indeed break LOS with the flanking T-34, but we know that it's there now. Our rightmost Panzer has not had much luck with those two T-70s and is running low on APCR.

3rd Platoon is now in position and dismounted. 1st and 2nd Platoons are ready to resume the advance, though still a little tired.

Here's a screenshot of the situation:



[image]local://upfiles/9/CD93E06AD5E3490DB8C92BD69EAF51B1.jpg[/image]



Erik Rutins -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:25:43 AM)

Ok, let's hear the advice. What should we do about that flanking T-34 on the other side of the village? What about those last two T-70s?

Should the infantry now move forward again towards the village?

Regards,

- Erik



heinrich55 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 2:43:59 AM)

Erik,
Give the treadheads an extra bottle of schnapps for their excellent gunnery.

I'd say leave the panzers to clear the flank threat of the T-70s for now. Resume the advance of the infantry, with more movement on the left side of the road, so that someone can get an eye on the left flank T-34 and get a better feel for what is waiting in the village.

Heinrich55



Tophat1815 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 6:05:01 AM)

Leave 2 tanks including the damaged track vehicle to cover and stop the T-70's from moving into the town.Send the other 3 back to the road the infantry is moving abreast of.You need the HE and mgs from the tanks to support your infantry getting into town.Also you need the tanks to deal with the T-34.What AT-capability do those SS troopers have? Anti-tank rifle? Grenade bundle? Molotov? Harsh language? [;)]



Stridor -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 6:17:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Tophat1812

What AT-capability do those SS troopers have? Anti-tank rifle? Grenade bundle? Molotov? Harsh language? [;)]


Not even an electronic sasuage?



spellir74 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 11:08:30 AM)

Within 30m, inf has AT weapons[grenades/mines] as "close assault". ...If you can get an assaulting squad within 30 meters of a tank. (For tank busting in early/mid war, better to be defending as inf than assaulting IME. And use smoke as they did.)

EDIT

LINK: "Men Against Tanks"-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8thWxRiALM

If this was later war, the squad wouldn't need to be within 30m to kill tanks because of end-game Pzfausts. (For late war squads even with pzFaust, "close assault" grenade/mines/pack abstraction becomes possible again w/ in 30m.)

ATR teams exist in PzC as separate units but they are simply not in this scenario. Tank hunter teams come later as dedicated AT teams and are armed w/ PzShrek and Pzfaust.

(Other inf units in PzC...
Snipers: they exist in PzC --and have qualities specific to that type (range and accuracy)-- but just aren't in this scenario. Same with platoon mortar --ie light Mo used as part of certain Inf Regulars' OOB. Mid and heavy mortar (company and btn OOB) is off map: these engagement time lengths and map sizes haven't been big enough to factor in 3D support weapons moving about in any relevant way. Also in PzC there are SubMG squads; Used in war as close combat urban specialists. None of those are in this scenario. At least on German side...)

Just like squad MG aren't under player control, no individual squad weapons(grenades etc) are under player control. Everything is "firepower" factored into the squad's kill potential when a target is in range and accurately acquired.

The one exception to this is Pioniers. They have packs which a player does choose as individual weapon type and aim at target. Also, pioniers as part of their 30m AT close assault, have more effective charges than just grenades and mines ABSTRACTLY factored into pioneer close assault "firepower". The skinny is pioniers are more effective at close range vs tanks than regular inf. (This is just like Gebirgjgs are slightly more effective than reg infantry at long range with their world class marksmen _in the squads_; those Gebirg snipers are player weapon choice as menu pulldown just like pionier HEAT packs are.)


--------

Note the "gun folder" has many [most] weapons used in war, including even fallshmjager kite grenades and etc. They are not used [yet or ever] by unit XMLs, for this game really isn't that kind of close combat micro management game. A squad is a squad as far you the company commander or kamp gruppe commander are concerned. You don't tell the squadies exactly how to bound into a hut; you tell their platoon head to 'hold that flank (by those huts)'.

As said, once a tank is within 30m a squad's firepower can become antitank.

(I find squad AT close assault effective-- if the squad itself doesn't get wasted in the offing (use smoke).)




spellir74 -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 11:10:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stridor


Not even an electronic sasuage?



But the electronic sausage is so many points the player will have to forgo purchasing any tanks or arty support at all.

Alas, these decisions will be made by player before scenario start.

...May the best electronic sausage win.



Mobius -> RE: Semi-Interactive AAR: Return Road to Kharkov (8/30/2010 1:17:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: spellir74
As said, once a tank is within 30m a squad's firepower can become antitank.

It's 25m for infantry AT grenade range. AT 30m they are a sitting duck.



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