RE: A few newbie questions (Full Version)

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Nomad -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 12:20:28 PM)

disregard




morganbj -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 1:58:01 PM)

Am disregarding.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 2:00:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan

Am disregarding.


And so goes yet another thread . . .[:)]




John Lansford -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 2:26:35 PM)

I've got over 150 Catalinas in reserve and my patrol squadrons are all set to 50% search, 10-20% rest, so I must not be having a lot of problems with operational losses.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 4:55:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've got over 150 Catalinas in reserve and my patrol squadrons are all set to 50% search, 10-20% rest, so I must not be having a lot of problems with operational losses.


I've found a lot of variation in fatigue and Ops losses based on range. I tend to patrol at about 50-60% of max range, and I use 30% rest as a rule of thumb. I jack it to 80-20% when I know an attack is inbound. Even so, I don't think I've ever had 150 Cats in the pool. You're doing well.




John Lansford -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 6:01:08 PM)

Bullwinkle,

I wonder if it's because my planes are patrolling in areas that are rarely contested by enemy airpower?  A damaged plane should have a higher chance for operational loss, I'd think.  The AI has pulled its LBA out of SWPac (except for Burma) and CentPac all the way to the Marianas.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 6:24:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Bullwinkle,

I wonder if it's because my planes are patrolling in areas that are rarely contested by enemy airpower?  A damaged plane should have a higher chance for operational loss, I'd think.  The AI has pulled its LBA out of SWPac (except for Burma) and CentPac all the way to the Marianas.


Combat damage should certainly be in there, so if you have no attacks it would help I think. I've always thought Ops losses were primarily a function of pilot fatigue, pilot skill, weather, and plane fatigue (seen in the PLANES hotpoint in the unit screen.) Metal fatigue is metal fatigue.




Shark7 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 6:37:15 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

I've got over 150 Catalinas in reserve and my patrol squadrons are all set to 50% search, 10-20% rest, so I must not be having a lot of problems with operational losses.


I've found a lot of variation in fatigue and Ops losses based on range. I tend to patrol at about 50-60% of max range, and I use 30% rest as a rule of thumb. I jack it to 80-20% when I know an attack is inbound. Even so, I don't think I've ever had 150 Cats in the pool. You're doing well.


I'm using full range with what I've posted. Again, that may have to do with the airframe durability of the H6k/H8ks.




Shark7 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/22/2010 6:38:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

Bullwinkle,

I wonder if it's because my planes are patrolling in areas that are rarely contested by enemy airpower?  A damaged plane should have a higher chance for operational loss, I'd think.  The AI has pulled its LBA out of SWPac (except for Burma) and CentPac all the way to the Marianas.


Combat damage should certainly be in there, so if you have no attacks it would help I think. I've always thought Ops losses were primarily a function of pilot fatigue, pilot skill, weather, and plane fatigue (seen in the PLANES hotpoint in the unit screen.) Metal fatigue is metal fatigue.


That is a good point too, but I tend to use my H6Ks for long range snooping near the front. As I've posted elsewhere, could durability be a factor?




brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 2:44:03 AM)

A few more questions:

15. It seems I can't go from the West Coast to Australia without running out of gas. The only major port between the two is PH. There is no way I should run all the west coast convoys to PH, right? The port would overload. Am I right in thinking I need to operate subsidiary ports in the Pacific to take the burden off PH?

16. Convoys between India and Australia seem to want to take a questionable rout along Java. If I reroute the convoys using waypoints, will the CS convoy led computers respect the waypoints on the way home?

17. Lets say I've set up a major distribution hub at Sydney. It is now awash in gas and supplies. I now set up subsidary hubs to the smaller bases. How do I keep those smaller bases from overloading with fuel and supplies?

18. Let me see if I understand Air Commands properly. Every base has an air command assigned. You see that when you click on the base. If you operate a plane from one air command from the base of another air command, you suffer a penalty. However, you can't even move the plane to that base if it is a part of a restricted Air Command. Then you need to transfer the plane to an unrestricted air command. The actual command units are useful as they provide support personnel. Is that about right?

19. For air units stuck in less combat likely commands (eg, the US), until I get the political points to transfer the units, they are really just training squadrons. I was planning on flying a little patrol/ASW, but mostly training and resting. Once the pilots get decent experience, I send them to the pilot pool. Is that the general idea?

20. The manual says that pilots over 80 experience can become trainers. Do I get any benefit from doing that?




Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 3:02:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

A few more questions:

15. It seems I can't go from the West Coast to Australia without running out of gas. The only major port between the two is PH. There is no way I should run all the west coast convoys to PH, right? The port would overload. Am I right in thinking I need to operate subsidiary ports in the Pacific to take the burden off PH?



Hmmm. The vast majority of your ships should have the endurance to make the run between the West Coast and Australia. without running out of gas. Even the more short-legged destroyers will refuel from their larger brethren en route if need be. Which ships aren't making it? Also, you can never really overload a port with fuel or supply although there may be some "spoilage" in smaller ports that are overstocked....unless you mean overload in terms of ships docking at once.




brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 3:20:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Torplexed


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

A few more questions:

15. It seems I can't go from the West Coast to Australia without running out of gas. The only major port between the two is PH. There is no way I should run all the west coast convoys to PH, right? The port would overload. Am I right in thinking I need to operate subsidiary ports in the Pacific to take the burden off PH?



Hmmm. The vast majority of your ships should have the endurance to make the run between the West Coast and Australia. without running out of gas. Even the more short-legged destroyers will refuel from their larger brethren en route if need be. Which ships aren't making it? Also, you can never really overload a port with fuel or supply although there may be some "spoilage" in smaller ports that are overstocked....unless you mean overload in terms of ships docking at once.



I was using TKs and AKs. Let me check again. I was probably doing something wrong.

In terms of oversupply, I was projecting that if I set up even a small convoy to Attu, in 1945 I might check on the base and find it floated away in all the fuel I sent it. But if I don't send any fuel or supplies at all, it will run out.

I'll need to keep an eye on it unless I want to grossly overstock it--which may not be bad, but it seems wasteful.




Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 3:41:53 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

I was using TKs and AKs. Let me check again. I was probably doing something wrong.

In terms of oversupply, I was projecting that if I set up even a small convoy to Attu, in 1945 I might check on the base and find it floated away in all the fuel I sent it. But if I don't send any fuel or supplies at all, it will run out.

I'll need to keep an eye on it unless I want to grossly overstock it--which may not be bad, but it seems wasteful.


Actually if nothing is going on at Attu if might never another convoy again. [;)]The bases that will need the most resupply and attention will be the ones seeing a lot of action. Air missions being flown, ports and airfields being expanded, ships refueling etc.

Yeah, the vast majority of your AKs and TKs should be able to make the trek between Australia and the US easily. You might get a red fuel reading if their home port is still on the West Coast when you dispatch them to Australia because the ship doesn't have the endurance to go to Australia ....and back home again. So it does have enough endurance for a one way trip...but not there and back without refueling at some point.




brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 4:05:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Torplexed


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

I was using TKs and AKs. Let me check again. I was probably doing something wrong.

In terms of oversupply, I was projecting that if I set up even a small convoy to Attu, in 1945 I might check on the base and find it floated away in all the fuel I sent it. But if I don't send any fuel or supplies at all, it will run out.

I'll need to keep an eye on it unless I want to grossly overstock it--which may not be bad, but it seems wasteful.


Actually if nothing is going on at Attu if might never another convoy again. [;)]The bases that will need the most resupply and attention will be the ones seeing a lot of action. Air missions being flown, ports and airfields being expanded, ships refueling etc.

Yeah, the vast majority of your AKs and TKs should be able to make the trek between Australia and the US easily. You might get a red fuel reading if their home port is still on the West Coast when you dispatch them to Australia because the ship doesn't have the endurance to go to Australia ....and back home again. So it does have enough endurance for a one way trip...but not there and back without refueling at some point.


Got it--I was going off the red flag. I did some tests and you need about 1400 to avoid the red flag, but that seems as though it would be overkill.




Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 4:20:01 AM)

If you take a 9000 endurance ship like the Matson Line transport Mariposa starting from a home port of Los Angeles and set it's destination for Sydney it'll give a red number suggesting it wouldn't make the trip without running dry on fuel. However it you set both it's destination and home port to Sydney the number turns green. You just have to remember to send it home to LA again if need be. [:D]




brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 4:35:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

If you take a 9000 endurance ship like the Matson Line transport Mariposa starting from a home port of Los Angeles and set it's destination for Sydney it'll give a red number suggesting it wouldn't make the trip without running dry on fuel. However it you set both it's destination and home port to Sydney the number turns green. You just have to remember to send it home to LA again if need be. [:D]


But if I turn it over to the computer, it will have the sense to fill up in Sydney, right?




Shark7 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 4:48:41 AM)

If you look in your task force box, where you set desitnation etc, directly under the picture will be a bunch of switches. In that box you can manually tell the ships to refuel, tactical refuel, or not refuel. They will refuel by default.

Here you can also set it from Human Control, Computer Control or (in the case of cargo convoys) CS: 'Sydney' (which is a continuous convoy option to allow you to set it and forget it...to an extent). Basically it will be CS: Destination and you can set as many of these as you want or need.




Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 4:51:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000


quote:

ORIGINAL: Torplexed

If you take a 9000 endurance ship like the Matson Line transport Mariposa starting from a home port of Los Angeles and set it's destination for Sydney it'll give a red number suggesting it wouldn't make the trip without running dry on fuel. However it you set both it's destination and home port to Sydney the number turns green. You just have to remember to send it home to LA again if need be. [:D]


But if I turn it over to the computer, it will have the sense to fill up in Sydney, right?


I usually don't turn my convoys over to the computer, but it should if you have the refuel option selected...

[img]http://pyxis.homestead.com/Fuel-Option.jpg[/img]




brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 5:31:48 AM)

Thanks, that would make sense. [:D]




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 2:11:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

A few more questions:

15. It seems I can't go from the West Coast to Australia without running out of gas. The only major port between the two is PH. There is no way I should run all the west coast convoys to PH, right? The port would overload. Am I right in thinking I need to operate subsidiary ports in the Pacific to take the burden off PH?

16. Convoys between India and Australia seem to want to take a questionable rout along Java. If I reroute the convoys using waypoints, will the CS convoy led computers respect the waypoints on the way home?

17. Lets say I've set up a major distribution hub at Sydney. It is now awash in gas and supplies. I now set up subsidary hubs to the smaller bases. How do I keep those smaller bases from overloading with fuel and supplies?

18. Let me see if I understand Air Commands properly. Every base has an air command assigned. You see that when you click on the base. If you operate a plane from one air command from the base of another air command, you suffer a penalty. However, you can't even move the plane to that base if it is a part of a restricted Air Command. Then you need to transfer the plane to an unrestricted air command. The actual command units are useful as they provide support personnel. Is that about right?

19. For air units stuck in less combat likely commands (eg, the US), until I get the political points to transfer the units, they are really just training squadrons. I was planning on flying a little patrol/ASW, but mostly training and resting. Once the pilots get decent experience, I send them to the pilot pool. Is that the general idea?

20. The manual says that pilots over 80 experience can become trainers. Do I get any benefit from doing that?


15. Others have given you some good ideas here. I would add that you should, from the first week of the war, be cramming in supplies and fuel to PH. It's big enough that there won't be any spoilage. (See manual for those limits.) PH is the central hub of operations for the whole war, at least until mid-late 1944. Really fill it up with escorted CS convoys from your base of choice. I use SF, but you can mix up the start points. By 1944 you'll be hauling a couple of million tons of supplies and fuel every month westward to the front lines, and it's a shorter trip from PH than the WC. Fill PH up.

To answer you question, yes, using PH to refuel Oz-bound convoys is generally a good idea, although some combos of ships can make it without. As others have said, if you're getting red numbers, you can change the home base to an Oz base, but then you have to remember to send it back. You can use the Memo line at the top of the TF control screen to remind you ("Send me back to Pearl".) This little one-line memo space can be very useful as well when you're planning big invasions and need to keep dozens of TFs straight.

As far as PH overloading by re-fueling passing convoys, no, it won't, because a waypoint at PH with refuel set doesn't dock the convoy. It doesn't take pier space. There are fueling limits (See manual Section 9.3.3.2) but they're high for a large port like PH. I've never really harmed PH ops by having it refuel passing convoys. That extra fuel, going and coming, gives you about 4000 miles of slack range to use to route the convoy onto a safe path to Oz. In 1942 that can involve LONG doglegs to avoid Japanese islands.

As others have said, set the Refuel line in the TF to tell it what to do at the final destination. Early, you probably don't want to be Full refueling everything at Oz. Play with the different options. See manual section 6.2.13.1 for definitions of the various fueling options. Always realize that small ships can refuel in transit from big ships, so having some of your xAKs red when you leave is usually OK if there are others in green. You need to watch your ship mixes in the convoys partly with this in mind. Also, many of the early ASW escorts are very short-range. They'll have to suck fuel off their charges to get to Oz, which can make a waypoint at PH even more important.

16. Be careful with waypoints and auto-routing. Waypoints give you total control over where the ships go. The levels of auto-routing have limits. See manual section 6.1.2.1.2. The code only routes around KNOWN air threats. It doesn't avoid bases that might be packed with IJN surface raiders. Most importantly, it ONLY routes around known air threats. So, if you haven't reconned a base it's just a red base hex, and the AI will route as if there's no planes there, even if in reality it is a nest of Betties you don't know about yet. In particular, in 1942, be VERY careful of Tarawa, Baker, and Canton Islands. Waypoint FAR around them. If you set "Safer" for a convoy, and you haven't reconned those bases to see the planes almost certainly there, the AI will merrily drive your convoy right past them. Boomski.

Normal, Direct, Safer, and Safest can be very valuable labor-sving tools, but not in all cases. As you say, Java is another problem area. STAY AWAY from Java afer the AI captures it. There will be Betties and Nells everywhere. If you have to travel from India to western Oz, swing far out into the IO, and even then take escort, as the AI will carrier raid into the IO at random times under some AI scripts. If you have to go to Darwin from India, I'd make it two trips. India to Perth, Perth to Darwin. Don't try to cut the corner and go by Oosthaven, Batavia, Soerbaja, etc.

To observe waypoints in both directions, use the "Return Same Route y/n" radio button in the waypoint screen. When you do that, be sure the fuel budget still works to get them home.

17. Use the supply spinners to up or down the requested supplies. But fuel doesn't flow by itself, except for use by industry. You have to move it. Be aware that sticking a lot of fuel in Sydney will cause Sydney's heavy industry to suck on it to make supplies. You might want this in order to reduce how much supply you have to haul to Oz, or you might want the fuel there for naval ops. If the latter, you need to put fuel somewhere else. If it's in Oz, Sydney can take it for industry, generally speaking. You can put some in Tasmania, and a lot of players use New Zealand for a major fuel dump. Play with this too, and decide how you want to go. There's no one right answer, and that answer can be different in different game eras.

As far as overstocking small bases, review the spoilage rules at manual section 15.7. Tracker will give you daily spoilage numbers by base if you use it. The best way to avoid spoilage is to quickly build up ports and airfields at bases where you'll dump a lot of stuff.

18. Not sure what you're asking in this one. Be careful to distinguish Air Commands, which are HQ units with special powers, from garden variety base airfields, which support planes, but aren't air commands. Restricted versus unrestricted commands for aircraft is an important concept. Review the manual on that and play with it. Note there are permanent restricted commands (white) for planes and LCUs, and temporary restricted (yellow.) These you can change to unrestricted with PPs. So, some aircraft can't ever move out of their starting command, and others can be made deployable with PPs. The color tells you which.

19. Yes, that's the general idea. Play with this too, however. I use Range = 0 and 100% Training on training units, to keep fatigue down and max the skill and experience build rates. (But you have to watch fatigue every week or so.) On the WC, early, for those units which will be actually Searching and ASWing, and not just training, I still do 10% training. (This only is possible if you use search arcs, and we know now this week there are some code issues with those, so YMMV until the next patch.) Actually flying real missions builds up skills and experience very quickly, but you risk more Ops losses too. Trade offs.

20. Pilots over 80 can be transferred to TRACOM by clicking on the pilot's name when it turns yellow in the Pilot Replacement/Reserve Pool screen. TRACOM generally speeds up (a little) the training pipeline for pilots in school, which is normally a year. Generally (there are some pretty complex threads on this and I don't completely understand the mechanics) the pilots in the training schools don't get better, you just get them a little faster if you put a bunch of superstars in TRACOM. For the Allies this isn't really of much use. You'll be floating in nugget pilots throughout the war. You won't have enough planes for all of them, and you can't make more as the Allies. For the Japanese player, TRACOM can be more useful. For the Allies, it can safely be ignored. Some players stash really hot pilots there to save them for later-war, superior aircraft models. It's up to you. But TRACOM is not as big a deal as the General Reserve. That can be very useful for the Allied player to manage.




wdolson -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 2:29:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58
17. USe the supply spinners to up or down the requested supplies. Fuel doesn' tflow by itself, except for use by industry. You have to move it. Be aware that sticking a lot of fuel in Sydney will cause Sydney's heavy industry to suck on it to make supplies. You might want this in order to reduce how much supply you have to haul to Oz, or you might want the fuel there for naval ops. If the latter, you need to put fuel somewhere else. If it's in Oz, Sydnet can take it for industry, generlaly speaking. You can put some in Tasmania, and a lot of players use New Zealand for a major fuel dump. Play with theis too, and decide how you want to go. There's no one right answer, and that answer can be different in different game eras.


All material (supply, fuel, resources, and oil) will move automatically. Supply is the only commodity that you can make a deliberate overdraw for. These commodities will move based on the requests set by bases in range overland and via adjacent ports. The left over will gravitate towards larger ports.

Fuel needs for a port will go up if there is a demand for fuel there. If ships are disbanded in the base, the game engine will move some fuel there (if possible) expecting you will need it for the ships in port. The demand at a port will also go up if ships are loading or unloading there. If a port is seeing a lot of activity, the fuel demand might get somewhat high for a while.

Bill




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 2:46:44 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

All material (supply, fuel, resources, and oil) will move automatically. Supply is the only commodity that you can make a deliberate overdraw for. These commodities will move based on the requests set by bases in range overland and via adjacent ports. The left over will gravitate towards larger ports.

OK, true. I never think of Resources or Oil playing the Allies. I forgot that ships in port influence the fuel draw. There have been patch changes to how this is handled. I was thinking in particular in Oz that Darwin never seems to pull much/any fuel from Sydney, even when there are a lot of ships there. Could be interim base influence. I'll admit that this part of the logistics model is still a "try it and see" for me. A little like magic.

I'm also tearing my hair out trying to pull supplies to Imphal--where I have a large defense force and under 1000 supply--from Calcutta, which has over 100,000. I'm moving LCUs to all interim bases on the rail line, playing with the spinners, trying to pack more into Diamond Harbor from Colombo, etc. Nothing seems to get supplies to Imphal where I need it. I'm flying in about 800 a day, but I can't seem to get enough in to establish a defense. Comilla in particular won't fill up to anything like the spinner ordered amount, and if Comilla is empty, Imphal is too.

I think this is the on-going hardest part of the game for a lot of players. There are competing needs in the design, and no system is ever going to be perfect, or perfectly transparent. I'm sure it's even harder for newbies. The point I was making to the OP (somewhat incorrectly) was that the player has to really, truly hand-manage fuel a lot more than supply. But your correction is, of course, correct.


Fuel needs for a port will go up if there is a demand for fuel there. If ships are disbanded in the base, the game engine will move some fuel there (if possible) expecting you will need it for the ships in port. The demand at a port will also go up if ships are loading or unloading there. If a port is seeing a lot of activity, the fuel demand might get somewhat high for a while.

Fuel in Oz, especially Darwin, is the second hardest logistic challenge in the game for me. Originally, the release code had boundaries where the game wouldn't "go looking" to flow fuel. Perth didn't feed Sydney for example, so Perth could be walled off and built to a fuel dump for trans-shipment to Darwin. This was changed in a patch, making the number of ships in the port paramount. Better, but hard to forget original habits.





wdolson -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 2:55:55 PM)

Darwin isn't going to draw much overland because of the bad roads in the interior of West Australia.

I had a friend who had been a cop there.  His "beat" was the size of Texas and had 6000 people.  It was a 24 hour turn around to get to the nearest bar from his base of operations.

You don't drive a lot of supply trucks through that desert.

Burma has a similar supply movement problem with bad or non-existent roads.

Bill




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 3:02:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Darwin isn't going to draw much overland because of the bad roads in the interior of West Australia.

I had a friend who had been a cop there.  His "beat" was the size of Texas and had 6000 people.  It was a 24 hour turn around to get to the nearest bar from his base of operations.

You don't drive a lot of supply trucks through that desert.

Burma has a similar supply movement problem with bad or non-existent roads.

Bill



I agree about Darwin. I never made it there, but I have been to Cairns, and taken the train south as far as Sydney. Very rough country.

But that's part of my point. The game doesn't give a lot/any feedback about what might/will happen logistically. I can't tell how much fuel will get to Darwin just by looking at the roads. I don't even know what trace the AI will use to get to Darwin--up through Alice Springs, or up the east coast and over? Bad roads either way, but different distances, different numbers of interim bases to "spin" up supply levels at, etc.

The hardest part of logistics in the game is when you do everything you can to get an outcome, but it doesn't happen, and you don't know why. If it can't be fixed due to RL conditions, fine, but we as players often don't know which variables are keeping us from getting what we thought we ordered. It just doesn't happen, and we scratch our collective heads.




John Lansford -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 5:38:49 PM)

If Darwin gets any fuel overland, it's such a small amount that it's negligible.  I've got a cruiser TF and 4 amphibious TF's there right now  to support my operations on Timor and the fuel supply is getting critical there.

Also, you can safely get convoys from India to Darwin if you use all three waypoints to do it.  Set two of them at least 12 hexes from the Java airbases, and third one right off the NW corner of Oz.  Don't set your TF to "safest route" or they'll head towards Sydney and come up from the east.  I use this method and the Bettys don't attack them.  Of course, I just had two merchant ships torpedoed when the stupid TF commander tried a more direct route (between Christmas Island and Java), but that was his mistake.




wdolson -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 10:31:39 PM)

Looking at the roads will tell you a lot.  You can see what the game sees as far as the roads go by hitting the R key.  The Y key will show you the rail network.

If the roads are the lowest level (dirt road), commodity movement is little better than overland (open hexes, no roads).  You can support maybe a division or so marching down a dirt road, but little more than that.

If a base is on a large rail network, it will probably get enough of all the commodities it needs unless you have a giant telephone pole of LCUs somewhere, or are doing something like loading massive supply at a port.  Perth is on the Australian rail network, but it's a long ways from anywhere else.  Enough will move to/from Perth, but you may only see stuff move about once  a week.

Bill




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 11:22:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Looking at the roads will tell you a lot.  You can see what the game sees as far as the roads go by hitting the R key.  The Y key will show you the rail network.

If the roads are the lowest level (dirt road), commodity movement is little better than overland (open hexes, no roads).  You can support maybe a division or so marching down a dirt road, but little more than that.

If a base is on a large rail network, it will probably get enough of all the commodities it needs unless you have a giant telephone pole of LCUs somewhere, or are doing something like loading massive supply at a port.  Perth is on the Australian rail network, but it's a long ways from anywhere else.  Enough will move to/from Perth, but you may only see stuff move about once  a week.

Bill



Oz I get, even if I can't always predict what will happen. I don't expect Darwin to be supplied overland. I get it.

What I don't get is what I'm seeing in NE India. I played eight more days today, shoving supplies into Calcutta and Diamond Harbor. I spun down everything to the west and north to the minimum, put at least a base force on every base and dot hex between Comilla and Calcutta, and Comilla, which is on a rail line, won't go over 4000 supply. All it has eating there is a couple of base forces, an AA unit, and an air HQ. Imphal hasn't gone over 400. Air transport is keeping it alive. I moved some LCU out of there to reduce the demand; took them onto Kohima and that string of bases off to the NE. Still nothing. I've tried being aggressive with the spinners, and also doing a very light touch, trying to "walk" supply into Comilla. Hasn't worked. What I really don't get is one day Calcutta had 127,000 supply, and two days later it had 22,000. I checked Madras and it didn't all run over there. I don't know where it all went, unless it was into unit supplies, and since most of the LCUs are at Imphal, and they're not bursting, I don't know. It's just very frustrating.

I'd kill for ONE MORE BUTTON that says "I put that supply there for a reason. High Command says keep your cotton-pickers off of it until I release the button!" Flowing and balancing is nice, feeding industry is nice, but the inability to pull defensive supplies to the front lines and keep them there is really a PITA.

/rant




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 11:29:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John Lansford

If Darwin gets any fuel overland, it's such a small amount that it's negligible.  I've got a cruiser TF and 4 amphibious TF's there right now  to support my operations on Timor and the fuel supply is getting critical there.

Also, you can safely get convoys from India to Darwin if you use all three waypoints to do it.  Set two of them at least 12 hexes from the Java airbases, and third one right off the NW corner of Oz.  Don't set your TF to "safest route" or they'll head towards Sydney and come up from the east.  I use this method and the Bettys don't attack them.  Of course, I just had two merchant ships torpedoed when the stupid TF commander tried a more direct route (between Christmas Island and Java), but that was his mistake.


Agree. Darwin is a sea-supply situation, and should be. But this goes back to the OP and newbies in general. Logistics is just opaque, even after a year. How far up the east coast can I expect fuel to flow? How much? Is there any way to forecast in time to get tankers moving, or do I always have to look in the rear-view and react?

Good ideas about waypoints. I haven't tried the 3-way around Java. In my game my scripts are making the Shokuku and 3-DDs periodically come due south to hit west Timor (all I still have in the DEI), and then come further south and whack everything in the channel NW of Darwin. Have lost a fair number of xAKs and small escorts working out of Perth. My Darwin B17s fly over and wave, and drop their bombs to make nice for th ephotogs, but they don't hit anything. I have everything big in the theater in Sydney upgrading, or at Cairns trying to get flooding down enough to head for Sydney. There have been some donnybrooks over PM.

I'll try the 3-way thing. So far I haven't had any carrier raids into the IO like last game. Might be early still though.




Smeulders -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 11:31:47 PM)

One of the important things to keep in mind with the new supply system is that there can be a limit on the supplies a base gets each day. This is the case in India, so you have to be careful with supply here. 'Walking supply' isn't going to work any more, simply because you can't ship huge amounts from base A to B in a single day anymore. My best guess here would be to get all bases in the area into decent/high supply levels, especially bases between your supply dumps like Calcutta, and the places you will need it, like Imphal. That way, the nearby bases, which will be able to send a daily supply stream to Imphal, will actually have the supplies to send.




Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/23/2010 11:44:24 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

One of the important things to keep in mind with the new supply system is that there can be a limit on the supplies a base gets each day. This is the case in India, so you have to be careful with supply here. 'Walking supply' isn't going to work any more, simply because you can't ship huge amounts from base A to B in a single day anymore. My best guess here would be to get all bases in the area into decent/high supply levels, especially bases between your supply dumps like Calcutta, and the places you will need it, like Imphal. That way, the nearby bases, which will be able to send a daily supply stream to Imphal, will actually have the supplies to send.


I've been looking at those, and they're in the multi-thousands, and I'm getting multi-hundreds.

I just looked and saw something that "might" be it. Usually I do the 'R' key red road-rail display. Just now I took wdolson's advice and did a 'y' key. I had assumed that supply left Calcutta and went to Darjeeling (8000/day limit), and then to Comilla. There's a river south of Darjeeling that breaks the rail line so you can't go directly to Comilla. BUT, I see a dot base at Tezpur that I missed, and the rail line runs through it. It has zero supply since it has no LCU, and a 5000/day limit. Maybe that's why Comilla is starving? If I can fill up Comilla, I realize Imphal isn't on the RR, so I still have to get it home, but until I tried the 'y' key I never realized I might need Tezpur. Does that make sense to you India experts? I have an LCU at Silchar, the closest RR junction to Imphal, and it's 5000/day too.




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