RE: A few newbie questions

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John Lansford -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 12:15:31 AM)
If you decide to run convoys between Perth and Melbourne along the south side of Oz, make sure they're escorted; the AI will send subs to patrol between Adelaide and Melbourne. BTW, if you disband your ships at Perth, they won't drain your fuel reserves there. Basically they are tied up at the dock and just sitting in port. I've got zero ships in TF's at Perth yet cannot keep any fuel there at all, even after a 6 tanker TF unloads 70,000 units. Darwin: the fuel use to move supplies/fuel along the road to that port is so high that no fuel will get there. Fuel only moves long distances along rail lines. AK's as tankers. If you're short of tankers, grab 30 xAK's and load them with fuel. You're stacking barrels of fuel on every deck, but you'll get more fuel to the port that way then if you don't use them, and you've got more xAK's as the Allies than you'll ever need hauling supplies.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 12:45:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford If you decide to run convoys between Perth and Melbourne along the south side of Oz, make sure they're escorted; the AI will send subs to patrol between Adelaide and Melbourne. BTW, if you disband your ships at Perth, they won't drain your fuel reserves there. Basically they are tied up at the dock and just sitting in port. I've got zero ships in TF's at Perth yet cannot keep any fuel there at all, even after a 6 tanker TF unloads 70,000 units. Darwin: the fuel use to move supplies/fuel along the road to that port is so high that no fuel will get there. Fuel only moves long distances along rail lines. AK's as tankers. If you're short of tankers, grab 30 xAK's and load them with fuel. You're stacking barrels of fuel on every deck, but you'll get more fuel to the port that way then if you don't use them, and you've got more xAK's as the Allies than you'll ever need hauling supplies. I was using Brisbane as my offload point in Oz--I was also going to use Brisbane as my starting point to transport fuel to Perth. From what you are saying, can I assume the fuel will make it to Melbourne? That would certainly make the trip shorter.

Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 12:53:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I was using Brisbane as my offload point in Oz--I was also going to use Brisbane as my starting point to transport fuel to Perth. From what you are saying, can I assume the fuel will make it to Melbourne? That would certainly make the trip shorter. You're far better off feeding fuel to Australia from both ends. To Sydney and Brisbane from the US West Coast. To Perth from the Middle East and Africa. (Abadan or Capetown)

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 12:58:18 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Torplexed quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I was using Brisbane as my offload point in Oz--I was also going to use Brisbane as my starting point to transport fuel to Perth. From what you are saying, can I assume the fuel will make it to Melbourne? That would certainly make the trip shorter. You're far better off feeding fuel to Australia from both ends. To Sydney and Brisbane from the US West Coast. To Perth from the Middle East and Africa. (Abadan or Capetown) I'm sure I'm completely missing something, but I didn't think you got oil in Abadan or Capetown. At least neither shows refinery or oil industries. Does oil appear as a part of out of game industries?

Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 1:32:12 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I'm sure I'm completely missing something, but I didn't think you got oil in Abadan or Capetown. At least neither shows refinery or oil industries. Does oil appear as a part of out of game industries? Abadan, the port represents a collection point for fuel refined from the British oil fields in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. In the base display you'll see 21,200 fuel already there--plus the number to the right of the slash represents how much fuel it receives per day. 15,000 is a heathy amount. This graphic is from December 7th. A LOT of fuel will accumulate there throughout the game. Capetown numbers aren't as dramatic (only 250)but there is a lot of fuel there to start. [img]http://pyxis.homestead.com/Abadan-Fuel.jpg[/img] By the way there are similar /slash numbers for a lot of bases in the game. Particularly on the West Coast and Panama. They represent fuel refined in the Eastern US and Texas.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 1:41:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Torplexed quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I'm sure I'm completely missing something, but I didn't think you got oil in Abadan or Capetown. At least neither shows refinery or oil industries. Does oil appear as a part of out of game industries? Abadan, the port represents a collection point for fuel refined from the British oil fields in Iraq and throughout the Middle East. In the base display you'll see 21,200 fuel already there--plus the number to the right of the slash represents how much fuel it receives per day. 15,000 is a heathy amount. This graphic is from December 7th. A LOT of fuel will accumulate there throughout the game. Capetown numbers aren't as dramatic (only 250)but there is a lot of fuel there to start. [img]http://pyxis.homestead.com/Abadan-Fuel.jpg[/img] By the way there are similar /slash numbers for a lot of bases in the game. Particularly on the West Coast and Panama. They represent fuel refined in the Eastern US and Texas. Oh--wow. I had noticed those (especially regarding supply), but not known what they meant and ignored them. That changes everything. I had been working out a complicated strategy to get fuel to India through Australia--and run fuel from Java until the very last minute after which hopefully enough tankers would be around. This is so much easier. Thanks!

Torplexed -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 1:52:49 AM)
You're welcome [8D] BTW if you haven't already, check out Sadaukar's Grand Campaign tutorial in the after action reports forum in which he describes in detail all his opening moves, long term planning and strategy in a game against the Japanese AI. It could be pretty helpful even if you a few weeks into a GC.... http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2564541

pompack -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 2:03:39 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 quote: ORIGINAL: Torplexed quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I was using Brisbane as my offload point in Oz--I was also going to use Brisbane as my starting point to transport fuel to Perth. From what you are saying, can I assume the fuel will make it to Melbourne? That would certainly make the trip shorter. You're far better off feeding fuel to Australia from both ends. To Sydney and Brisbane from the US West Coast. To Perth from the Middle East and Africa. (Abadan or Capetown) I'm sure I'm completely missing something, but I didn't think you got oil in Abadan or Capetown. At least neither shows refinery or oil industries. Does oil appear as a part of out of game industries? There is enough fuel at Abadan to supply India and OZ with all the fuel they need (unless you send major US fleet units into the Indian Ocean). I offload at Perth and it migrates to Sydney without loss and from there to anywhere you need fuel EXCEPT Darwin and the north coast. In fact, by 1943 I am supplying SoPac with fuel from Townsville instead of PH/West Coast. Now this works well against the AI since all you need is a light ASW escort for each fuel convoy into Perth; against a human be prepared to encounter surface raiders as well as subs along the way.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 4:05:06 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I'm sure I'm completely missing something, but I didn't think you got oil in Abadan or Capetown. At least neither shows refinery or oil industries. Does oil appear as a part of out of game industries? Be careful. Move FUEL to OZ, never oil. Don't move oil anywhere as the Allies. Fuel organically appears in Abadan; it comes to CT either because you bring it from the US East Coast, or in the CD auto-convoys that can also bring supplies and devices for the pools. (Look in the LCU arrival queue to see when and where the CD convoys arrive.) Supply Perth with fuel from CT and/or Abadan. Supply Sydney, Brisbane, etc. from either the US west coast, or Perth. Supply Darwin from Perth or Sydney/Brisbane. Don't move oil. After the DEI falls, about the only source you have is Los Angeles, and it needs what it has to make fuel. As the Allies, forget oil even exists. It's one of the few simplifying rules for the Allies.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 4:11:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Torplexed You're welcome [8D] BTW if you haven't already, check out Sadaukar's Grand Campaign tutorial in the after action reports forum in which he describes in detail all his opening moves, long term planning and strategy in a game against the Japanese AI. It could be pretty helpful even if you a few weeks into a GC.... http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2564541 I just read that thread, what a huge help. I've recently restarted, so this is very timely.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 4:15:22 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I'm sure I'm completely missing something, but I didn't think you got oil in Abadan or Capetown. At least neither shows refinery or oil industries. Does oil appear as a part of out of game industries? Be careful. Move FUEL to OZ, never oil. Don't move oil anywhere as the Allies. Fuel organically appears in Abadan; it comes to CT either because you bring it from the US East Coast, or in the CD auto-convoys that can also bring supplies and devices for the pools. (Look in the LCU arrival queue to see when and where the CD convoys arrive.) Supply Perth with fuel from CT and/or Abadan. Supply Sydney, Brisbane, etc. from either the US west coast, or Perth. Supply Darwin from Perth or Sydney/Brisbane. Don't move oil. After the DEI falls, about the only source you have is Los Angeles, and it needs what it has to make fuel. As the Allies, forget oil even exists. It's one of the few simplifying rules for the Allies. I tried crunching the numbers on regional demands vs. production, which is now totally discredited because I didn't realize fuel came from off map. However, it seems to me that the allies are swimming in fuel and supplies throughout the war, the only problem being getting them around. This is difficult for fuel because of the lack of tankers. It seems that while industry needs resources, there are a lot more resources in the world than are needed for production. Is this generally correct?

Sardaukar -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 8:25:00 AM)
Yes, but remember that you can ship fuel with xAKs in a pinch. My Oz fuel comes to Sydney from LA/Panama (you get some there too) via Suva as staging point. Cape Town is enough to supply Perth. CT gets 250/day (not much) but also regular off-map supply convoys, bringing in between 30k - few hundred k of fuel.

Alfred -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 10:16:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 ...Don't move oil. After the DEI falls, about the only source you have is Los Angeles, and it needs what it has to make fuel. As the Allies, forget oil even exists. It's one of the few simplifying rules for the Allies. Bullwinkle58, As a general rule of thumb, a new player would be well served if they adopted this approach. However, in the interests of full disclosure[;)] I would just remind that it is not quite 100% accurate. After the fall of the DEI, assuming the Japanese do not advance beyond the historical conquests, there is exactly 100% equilibrium between the Allied demand and supply of oil. Both India and USA have 100% equilibrium and therefore there is no oil surplus available for export. Australia suffers an oil deficit but ... surprise ... surprise ...(imagine my best Gomer Pyle voiceover) that exact deficit is made up by the auto oil generated at Abadan. So an Allied player who wants to maintain the Australian refineries operating at 100% can do so by importing the oil feedstock from Abadan. Alfred

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 12:48:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred quote: ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58 ...Don't move oil. After the DEI falls, about the only source you have is Los Angeles, and it needs what it has to make fuel. As the Allies, forget oil even exists. It's one of the few simplifying rules for the Allies. Bullwinkle58, As a general rule of thumb, a new player would be well served if they adopted this approach. However, in the interests of full disclosure[;)] I would just remind that it is not quite 100% accurate. After the fall of the DEI, assuming the Japanese do not advance beyond the historical conquests, there is exactly 100% equilibrium between the Allied demand and supply of oil. Both India and USA have 100% equilibrium and therefore there is no oil surplus available for export. Australia suffers an oil deficit but ... surprise ... surprise ...(imagine my best Gomer Pyle voiceover) that exact deficit is made up by the auto oil generated at Abadan. So an Allied player who wants to maintain the Australian refineries operating at 100% can do so by importing the oil feedstock from Abadan. Alfred In the interests of full disclosure, you are correct, sir.[:)] But any tanker leaving Abadan without fuel, when fuel is available there, is a wasted tanker. Every single turn for nine months now, Tracker has whined at me that Oz is short of oil. It's like my cat when she knows there's turkey in the fridge and I'm holding out on her. After a month or six, the mewing becomes background noise. Really, doesn't bother me a bt . . .

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 12:56:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 I tried crunching the numbers on regional demands vs. production, which is now totally discredited because I didn't realize fuel came from off map. However, it seems to me that the allies are swimming in fuel and supplies throughout the war, the only problem being getting them around. This is difficult for fuel because of the lack of tankers. It seems that while industry needs resources, there are a lot more resources in the world than are needed for production. Is this generally correct? Very much so. You haven't played to the end yet, but by 1944 logistics will be 70+% of your job, not fighting. I don't know if you use Tracker, but if you do look ahead in the very bottom tab at total forces in the game for each side. You'll be managing several thousand ships. A lot of Japanese players complain about how much work the economy is--and they're right--but the Allies have a lot more labor in total. Every base you take back has to be managed; after the first year the Japanese player's duties there get smaller and easier. And the number of LCUs, planes, and ships the Allied player gets dwarfs the total Japanese OOB. By mid-1945 you might have 300 merchants or more just sitting, waiting for someplace that needs servicing. Then, after VE Day, you have to haul all of the European theater troops and gear across 5000 miles of water. Moving a million tons of supplies will happen a couple of times a week. If 1945 is the major leagues, by comparison 1942 is single-A ball.

wdolson -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 3:13:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred As a general rule of thumb, a new player would be well served if they adopted this approach. However, in the interests of full disclosure[;)] I would just remind that it is not quite 100% accurate. After the fall of the DEI, assuming the Japanese do not advance beyond the historical conquests, there is exactly 100% equilibrium between the Allied demand and supply of oil. Both India and USA have 100% equilibrium and therefore there is no oil surplus available for export. Australia suffers an oil deficit but ... surprise ... surprise ...(imagine my best Gomer Pyle voiceover) that exact deficit is made up by the auto oil generated at Abadan. So an Allied player who wants to maintain the Australian refineries operating at 100% can do so by importing the oil feedstock from Abadan. Alfred The refinery at Sydney is so small that you can keep it going for more than a year with a couple of tankers full of oil from the DEI before it collapses. However, it isn't really worth it. What you can move from Adaban and Los Angeles completely eclipses the tiny bit of fuel you can make at Sydney. Bill

Sardaukar -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 3:15:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: wdolson quote: ORIGINAL: Alfred As a general rule of thumb, a new player would be well served if they adopted this approach. However, in the interests of full disclosure[;)] I would just remind that it is not quite 100% accurate. After the fall of the DEI, assuming the Japanese do not advance beyond the historical conquests, there is exactly 100% equilibrium between the Allied demand and supply of oil. Both India and USA have 100% equilibrium and therefore there is no oil surplus available for export. Australia suffers an oil deficit but ... surprise ... surprise ...(imagine my best Gomer Pyle voiceover) that exact deficit is made up by the auto oil generated at Abadan. So an Allied player who wants to maintain the Australian refineries operating at 100% can do so by importing the oil feedstock from Abadan. Alfred The refinery at Sydney is so small that you can keep it going for more than a year with a couple of tankers full of oil from the DEI before it collapses. However, it isn't really worth it. What you can move from Adaban and Los Angeles completely eclipses the tiny bit of fuel you can make at Sydney. Bill Wasn't there even discussion that Sydney refinery wasn't even in operation, because it was just easier to ship fuel, but it was included because it could have made operational if needed? Or am I remembering wrong?

Wikingus -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 7:17:37 PM)
I have a quick newbie question; submarine tenders. How do they work? Do I just park them in a harbor and that helps with sub repair/resupply or? At game start (I'm playing a short scenario) I have an AS as IJ and it's already loaded with supplies, I assume to give to the sub. I checked the manual but it doesn't say much on this. EDIT: remembered another one; why can't I add a midget sub to a midget sub carrier? I get an error message saying that kind of TF needs a sub and a midget sub. I have an SS and an SSX in the TF but it doesn't want to form. What am I doing wrong?

John Lansford -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 8:54:07 PM)
wikingus, Your AS ships have to have supplies on board in order to service (rearm) submarines. Have them load supplies and set them to "do not unload", then disband them in a friendly port. Subs that need rearming will get new torpedoes from the AS. RE: Abadan. It's late '43 in my CG and even with 20+ tankers hauling fuel down to Columbo and Darwin, Abadan has nearly a million points of fuel. Cape Town will run low of fuel but you'll get convoys showing up from time to time that will bring fuel and supplies there.

Smeulders -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 9:11:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Wikingus I have a quick newbie question; submarine tenders. How do they work? Do I just park them in a harbor and that helps with sub repair/resupply or? At game start (I'm playing a short scenario) I have an AS as IJ and it's already loaded with supplies, I assume to give to the sub. I checked the manual but it doesn't say much on this. EDIT: remembered another one; why can't I add a midget sub to a midget sub carrier? I get an error message saying that kind of TF needs a sub and a midget sub. I have an SS and an SSX in the TF but it doesn't want to form. What am I doing wrong? 1) Just a bit more elaboration; you don't need AS in large ports, they will be able to reload torpedoes on their own. However, small bases can't (don't ask for the exact number, that can depend on kind of torpedo, naval support, etc.) normally can't, so there they are useful. 2) Only specific kinds of sub can carry a midget. I don't usually play Japan, so I don't know which can and which can't, but searching for a big sub seems like a good plan. I'd be surprised if a RO-class can carry a midget.

Wikingus -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/27/2010 9:30:19 PM)
Thanks for the reply. If I can't carry them to an Allied port, then individual midget subs are still useful for defending my ports, right? Right now I have them in 1-sub TFs undocked at my ports. Will they attack enemy ships in the event of an attack? I assume I couldn't really send them out on their own outside the port hex.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 12:07:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford AK's as tankers. If you're short of tankers, grab 30 xAK's and load them with fuel. You're stacking barrels of fuel on every deck, but you'll get more fuel to the port that way then if you don't use them, and you've got more xAK's as the Allies than you'll ever need hauling supplies. This only works for AKs that have a small liquid capacity, right? I don't think I can do this with just any AK. Also, is this historical? Did Liberty Ships carry drummed oil?

witpqs -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 12:12:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford AK's as tankers. If you're short of tankers, grab 30 xAK's and load them with fuel. You're stacking barrels of fuel on every deck, but you'll get more fuel to the port that way then if you don't use them, and you've got more xAK's as the Allies than you'll ever need hauling supplies. This only works for AKs that have a small liquid capacity, right? I don't think I can do this with just any AK. Also, is this historical? Did Liberty Ships carry drummed oil? They can carry fuel in the regular cargo capacity (1/2 efficiency), but not oil. So an AK or xAK that can carry 6,000 cargo can carry 3,000 fuel instead. If they have a built in liquid capacity, that is additional.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 12:15:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford wikingus, Your AS ships have to have supplies on board in order to service (rearm) submarines. Have them load supplies and set them to "do not unload", then disband them in a friendly port. Subs that need rearming will get new torpedoes from the AS. RE: Abadan. It's late '43 in my CG and even with 20+ tankers hauling fuel down to Columbo and Darwin, Abadan has nearly a million points of fuel. Cape Town will run low of fuel but you'll get convoys showing up from time to time that will bring fuel and supplies there. Tenders need to be full of supplies to work? Or just AS?

wdolson -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 12:43:38 AM)
All of the auxiliary ships that have a cargo capacity need to be loaded with supply to work. So AG, AD, AS, etc. all need cargo loaded. Bill

pompack -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 12:59:08 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: brian800000 quote: ORIGINAL: John Lansford AK's as tankers. If you're short of tankers, grab 30 xAK's and load them with fuel. You're stacking barrels of fuel on every deck, but you'll get more fuel to the port that way then if you don't use them, and you've got more xAK's as the Allies than you'll ever need hauling supplies. This only works for AKs that have a small liquid capacity, right? I don't think I can do this with just any AK. Also, is this historical? Did Liberty Ships carry drummed oil? They can carry fuel in the regular cargo capacity (1/2 efficiency), but not oil. So an AK or xAK that can carry 6,000 cargo can carry 3,000 fuel instead. If they have a built in liquid capacity, that is additional. Note that xAK with additional liquid capacity can also carry oil. Just load them with resources and they will pick up oil in the liquid carrying tanks.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 3:51:53 AM)
disregard.

rockmedic109 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/28/2010 5:54:29 AM)
To be able to change a base to a different command, you need to have a LCU from that command present is how I understand it works.

brian800000 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/29/2010 3:43:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rockmedic109 To be able to change a base to a different command, you need to have a LCU from that command present is how I understand it works. I got a response even after deleting the question. [:)] (because I erroneously thought I found the answer). That doesn't seem to be working either. The situation: I'd like to make Kodiak under the West Coast command. I don't want to be wasting deployable units in Alaska when I have units stuck in the west coast. Kodiak is under the pacific command, there is an AA unit there under the West Coast Command, but it isn't available to that command (or any other--although it says it would cost 60 PP, which I have). It isn't a huge deal anyway, because I want to get my transport planes to Australia ASAP, and you can't load the west coast units on ships.Plus I don't know how smart it would be to run transports in Alaska during December.

Alpha77 -> RE: A few newbie questions (9/29/2010 4:18:24 PM)
quote: Very much so. You haven't played to the end yet, but by 1944 logistics will be 70+% of your job, not fighting. I don't know if you use Tracker, but if you do look ahead in the very bottom tab at total forces in the game for each side. You'll be managing several thousand ships. A lot of Japanese players complain about how much work the economy is--and they're right--but the Allies have a lot more labor in total. Every base you take back has to be managed; after the first year the Japanese player's duties there get smaller and easier. And the number of LCUs, planes, and ships the Allied player gets dwarfs the total Japanese OOB. By mid-1945 you might have 300 merchants or more just sitting, waiting for someplace that needs servicing. Then, after VE Day, you have to haul all of the European theater troops and gear across 5000 miles of water. Moving a million tons of supplies will happen a couple of times a week. If 1945 is the major leagues, by comparison 1942 is single-A ball. I am beginning to think that this "game" is so time consuming even now (I am now at the 1st of May 42) but if this is true what you write I probably cannot play this one very far. Are there any more tipps (or a forum link) for logistics also in later stages ? I know the auto convoi system and CS, but there should be some more, or ? Anyway, I just assembled most of my US fleet to make a stand finally in the Fiji/NG area. Maybe it will be a disaster all carriers sunk, then problem solved - guess I am not hard enough to see the rest of my fleet go down and the Japs conquer AU + India. However this also might be fun, maybe in a 2nd live I can restart the game with better experience as Allies. And in the 3rd live I can play the Japs [X(] I have now 2 huge convois for Perth (guess over 100000 fuel) is there danger of spoilage in Perth? Also send some of the AKs from Perth to Capetown, if they really should draw the fuel toPerth. But as you explained already the rail line isn´t the biggest one in reality, so probably is this transport problem in the game realistic.

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