End of AAR 76mm welcome

End of AAR 76mm welcome (Full Version)

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Ketza -> End of AAR 76mm welcome (1/20/2011 5:24:31 PM)
Well the game I have been waiting for has arrived and after a few AI attempts to learn the system here goes. 76mm actually lives in Moscow so that gives the game a bit more flavor! AGN - My initial thoughts here were to pocket most of the Soviets in this area and strike deep with 4th PZG. After a few AI practice runs it occured to me that I was doing something wrong. It is more important to get 16th and 18th army moving off the border then corraling future POWS. Things can get dicey near Leningrad and wasting movement turn one is a major strategic mistake. I then opted for attacks utilizing the Infantry divisions with 4thPZG to blow the Soviet frontier units off the line along with the sole division from 58th XXX in 18th army and the reserve division located in 16th Army. This allowed 18th and 16th army full movement forward and a crushing blow on Kaunus and the Soviet reserve divisions. (some of which were shattered) To me using the infantry for the heavy combat early is important because the Panzers full movement is saved for exploitation. The bonus I also discovered is you can still pocket the routed units. The 4th PZG exploitation went well with some 12 divisions pocketed with from what I can tell no hope of breaking out. I also cut the rail line from Riga so no units can be railed in or out. So I am rather pleased with AGN north progress turn one. Rail line was extended almost to Kaunus. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/AGNPBEM.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/20/2011 5:35:36 PM)
AGC - I opted to not try for a Minsk pocket in order to make sure other pockets held secure. I didnt want to lose a turn of momentum because Bialystock pocket was relived or broke out. 3 PZG linked up with 2 PZG and the usual huge pocket was formed. The chances of Russians escaping are 0 from what I can tell. 9th Army and 4th army are screening and some attacks were made to kill forts and get at airfields. Almost all of the routed units were still pocketed. An infantry XXX from 4th army reduced Brest Litovsk and GD regiment gobbled up raillines in the swamp. I made one mistake moving the regiment next to the routed Brest garrison thining a regiment wouldnt rout them again but it did. I used admin points to shift a 47th PZ to 1st PZG. I also switched out the SS division with 60th motorised and gave it a Flamm panzer before it went south. Overall I am pleased with the AGC progress. 35+ divsions are pocketed. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/AGCPBEM.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/20/2011 5:52:04 PM)
AGS - I opted for the Romanian border and an attempt to bag everything along the mountains. 17th army and 6th army made excellent progress and a few nasty hexes fell on the first attack. The infamous rough hex on the border fell to a 3 division deliberate attack. 6th army advanced to Kovel and beat up a few tank divsions and surrounded a juicy one with help from 17th army. I dont think that mini pocket will hold but the division should not get away. The 2 armies opened up a corridor and 3 panzer XXX squirted through. 47th Panzer slammed into the Soviet armor and infantry just past the corridor opening and pushed back the whole line and captured Turnopol. Much ground was gained to keep the major pockets secure. The next PZ XXX to break though gobbled up ground and overran HQs and airfields to give the last PZ XXX a free ride to the border. It looks like enough ground was taken to secure this portion of the pocket as well. The last PZ XXX made it all the way to Romania with MPs to spare and made a few attacks clearing out a security regiment and an infantry division. This part of the pocket is slightly questionable but I think it will hold. The last part of the operation positioned HQS for support. The Romanian push was the best I have had so far and the echelon moving of the 3 PZ Corps was essential. The farthest away Panzers did the fighting and the closer ones did the exploiting. I estimate these pockets in the South will hold 35 or so more divisions. It is also important to note the Soviet reserves were in many cases bloodied especially in the area of 47th PZ XXX. I am used to the AI standing and fighting so it will be very interesting to me to see what happens next. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/AGSPBEM.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/20/2011 5:54:09 PM)
Losses - Not bad considering the ground gained. AFV losses are low even though there was heavy AFV usage in the south. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Lossespbem.jpg[/image] I stop airstikes on bases when I hit 5k or so kills. I really hammer the bases with bombers and modern fighters. The rest of the kills came from overruns. 5300+ isnt to shabby. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Airlosses2.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/21/2011 5:07:14 PM)
Turn two was returned quickly and It took me much longer to do then turn one. My opponent has a mixed bag of reactions. All of the pockets held. The northern pockets in AGN and AGC areas were reduced. Around Lvow most of the pocket was reduced by 17th army. 5 divisions surrendered before combat started. Overall 60+ units were killed turn 2. AGN - One corps was moved from 9th army to 16th army. 2 infantry divisions of 4th Pzg were moved to 18th army. 18th army made good gains and made it into Riga area but was unable to assault. 16th Army made good gains and made it to Dvina river crossing. This will put large amounts of infantry in the Pskov area by turn 4. 4th Pzg crossed the river at several points and started drive to Pskov. My opponent placed a few units in the way and the 4th was slowed a bit more then I am used to against the AI. Instead of being a few hexes away from Pskov I am a full move away. Many airfields were overrun. Overall I am pleased with the AGN north gains but would like to have 4thpz on the schedule I am used to. Against a human this is to be expected I suppose. A small pocket was created along the river but no large bag of units was made. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2AGN.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/21/2011 5:16:09 PM)
AGC - 2nd PZG made good progress isolating Minsk from the south and getting to the Berezina river. The Panzer corps was unable to cross the Berezina and exploit due to several Soviet Para brigades being very tough to extricate. 4th and 9th armies are coving the Minsk pocket and protecting the flank along the pripet marsh. 3rd PZG went all out and actually reached Orsha overruning several Soviet airfields, HQ and routed units. Much ground was also cleared of Soviet hexes. The Dvina was also crossed at the important rail junction near Vitebsk. The Pocket at Minsk is relatively small with maybe 5 or 6 Divisions but it is well contained. Infantry is in place to mop it up easily turn 3. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2AGC3rdpz.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/21/2011 5:24:52 PM)
AGS - Here my opponent chose to flee. After carefull consideration I decided to try a decent sized pocket to try and grab some of his better quality armor that didnt quite get away. The reserve panzer Corp was unable to reach the battle but 3 Panzer Corps that were present plus the 2 motorized divisions were able to pocket 8-9 quality units. The catch is the pocket has the potential to be somewhat leaky. He will have to make the call to commit from the outside to break it however. If he does so I will be able to crush both the pocketed units as well as thier would be rescuers next turn. Well thats the plan anyway... Another pocket was made at Kovel with 3 units and 6th army advanced into the vacumn left by the Soviet retreat. 17th army made good progress at Lvow. Progress was made in the Pripyet marsh as well. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2AGS.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/21/2011 5:26:59 PM)
Rumania - On this front combined attacks by German and Rumanian troops were the order of the day and local progress was made. Kishinev fell as well. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2Rumania.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/21/2011 5:33:18 PM)
Losses - A dedicated effort was made to put a hit on the Soviet Air force by bombing bases before they were overrun. Results were outstanding with over 700 kills to 74 losses: [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2airlosses707.jpg[/image] I have made a point to hit modern planes when possible and 763 dead Migs looks good to me. Ground losses were acceptable. The Panzers were used heavily this turn and only 60 or so were lost: [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2Groundlosses.jpg[/image] And finally destroyed units. Against the AI I normally destroy 50 or so units turn 2. My focus on starting to reduce Lvow a turn early really showed: [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn2Unitskilled.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/22/2011 9:28:53 PM)
Turn 3 was full of both victories and disapointments. AGN - Riga was surrounded by 18th Army. I decided against hasty attacks and the possibility of routing the NKVD unit. 16th Army made huge gains and will close in on Pskov next turn on schedule. 4th PZg crossed the river behind Pskov and moved adjacent to his lines pinning the units there and throwing him back over the river. I was hoping to have Pskov this turn but between fuel and more Soviets in the area then against the AI it wasnt happening. The railhead is closer and lots of fuel was dropped so we are set up nicely for turn 4. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn3AGN.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/22/2011 9:35:19 PM)
AGC - 3rd PZG made local attacks and helped 2nd PZG get a bridgehead over the Dnieper. Mogilev withstood several attacks and still holds. Minsk pocket was reduced and Berezina was crossed in strength. Another pocket could have been formed just east of Minsk between the rivers but I felt it was more important to get a division over the major river. 4th and 9th armies advanced well and 4th will be in a position to start attacking turn 4 and 5. Mogilev holding out was a huge factor in the progress of AGC. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn3AGC.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/22/2011 9:42:56 PM)
AGS and Rumania were very interesting because my opponent has stood to fight. The leaky pocket I formed did indeed leak and he recued it. Many pitched battles were fought and he was able to "hold" at two hexes. I am finding that against a human the Soviets seem to be harder to dislodge. Perhaps this is from better command and control. My opponent also had built up many of the pocketed forces along the mountains in a large force trying to head east along the Rumanian border. This was handled by 11th army and Rumanians quite easily. In the end after much hard fighting 2 pockets were formed. The orginal pocket with 10 or so quality divisions and another along the RUmanian border with 5 or 6 divisions. This second pocket is somewhat porous but there are 4 Panzer corps within range of a breakout attempt. I do hope he continues to stand here in the south. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn3AGS.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/22/2011 9:48:35 PM)
There was no repeat of losided air losses like last turn. Not as many airfields were overrun and a few of the airfield attacks came out with bad results. Not sure if the Soviets are recovering quality to some extent or I just had a few bad rolls. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn3Airlosses.jpg[/image] Ground losses were I guess ok considering the heavy fighting at Mogilev and in the south. I am not sure how I am doing in this respect and if someone could maybe give me their 2 cents on this matter I would appreciate it. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn3Groundlosses.jpg[/image] Destroyed 30 or so units this turn from various pocket reductions and local attacks. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn3destroyed.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/25/2011 5:50:53 AM)
Turn 4 AGS - Vinnista pocket I opened up the turn facing a wall of Soviet units in the South. I also had a pocket to clean up and another pocket to seal up again. The pocket was crushed yielding some 9 units with a trove of some 900 tanks. Fighting was actually tough with 5 infantry divisions needed to reduce itusing all of their mps. The southern pocket was resealed using Rumanians and 11th army troops. Much tighter this time surrounding some 10 units including several tank divisions one showing a 5 CV. All of these initial moves were was done without using any armor. I studied his line and looked for a weak spot and there was none. Knowing this was a golden opportunity I decided to go all out. There was no way that line could have solid backing and after much recon it seemed as if a few good kicks the whole thing could be bagged. I then chose to go for a two pronged attack. From the north 3rd PZ XXX was reinforced and after hard fighting by 6th army dug out the first line of defenders. The corp went into the somewhat restricted hole. The initial 3 divisions penetrated to within a few hexes of Zhitomir and were stopped cold. Soviet resistance was tough. Air doctrine was set to 10% to get as much ground support as possible. The second prong jumped off led by 14th Pz XXX just south of Vinnista. Here the line looked formidable but collapsed readily. 14th PZ XXX cleared a wide swath to the south and anchored the southern part of the future pocket. 47th and 48th PZ corps then ripped across the countryside overrunning airfields, routed units and HQs by the score. One SS division came within 2 hexes of Kiev but recon could not confirm it was empty so the division curled back towards Zhitomir. Another division pushed back across the 3rd PZ corp front to solidify the nothern edge of the now immense pocket. Now the pocket was created 6th and 17th armies nestled in close. Recon shows some 35-40 soviet unites in the pocket. Most of the Soviet armor left in the south as well as many high grade divisions. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4AGSNorthpocket.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/25/2011 5:54:11 AM)
Here is the pocket to the south holding 8-10 more units: [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4AGSpocket.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/25/2011 5:59:22 AM)
Turn 4 AGC - Mostly moving up infantry and positioning Panzer armies. Bridgehead is more secure and a small pocket formed between Mogilel and Berezina. Mogilev was not attacked. Hmm I copied my 2nd PZ army picture wrong. Basically not much changed anyway. 9th army begins to adjust slightly north to keep in touch with 16th army that is heavily engaged near Pskov. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4AGC3pz.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/25/2011 6:06:11 AM)
AGN North - 18th army runs amuck and he abandons RIGA. 16th Army closes on Pskov and 4th PZ attacks across the river. A small pocket is formed but it wont hold. Pskov is in a position to be attacked next turn by infantry and the two armies will start expaning their area of control. As 9th army creeps closer 16th army will advance north reinforced by 6 divisions, various artillery and 12 pioneer battalions. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4AGN.jpg[/image] War starts in Finland with some good finnish assaults. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4finland.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/25/2011 6:09:00 AM)
Only 15 Soviet units were killed last turn but I hopr to increase the kitty next turn. Soviet casualties are also closing in on 1 million. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4groundlosses.jpg[/image] [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn4Airlosses.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/27/2011 4:24:51 PM)
Turn 5 AGS - With such a huge pocket there was bound to be a leak and there was. He relinked near Zhitomir because I didnt move one SS division one hex further west. He then linked the southern pocket with the northern pocket. I was somewhat prepared for this and in the back of my mind sorta hoped it would happen as I assumed he would also try to break in from outside the pocket. He indeed rushed some 15-20 divisions to start a new line. I decided to keep heading east and increase the distance from the main pocket to the new lines. These new divsions were much easier to push around and most were routed back towards the Dnepr. I tried to take Zhitomir with a deliberate attack but it failed so I decided it was easier to just include it in the pocket. Several Panzer divisions north West of Zhitomir are started to show some wear and tear from the havy fighting. I am pretty sure this turn the pocket will hold and 6th and 17th armies will crush it. Its estimated the pocket now holds 45 or so units. You can see to the east a host of routed units. I think he will be hard pressed to form a solid Dnepr defence. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/turn5ags.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/27/2011 4:32:30 PM)
Turn 5 AGN - With the closing in of 16th Army much ground was wrestled free and his line cracked. 4th PZG then blasted through the hole. The lead Panzer division to my surprise made it almost to Novogrod. I do expect him to isolate it this turn but there are some 20 infantry divisions closing in for the kill heavily reinforced with support units. 18th army made good progress as to be expected against no resistance and also has a strong corps heading through the lake pass. This turn 6 more divisions arrived in the area from OKW. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/turn5agn.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/27/2011 4:35:59 PM)
Turn 5 AGC - Local attacks by 2nd and 3rd PZG to set up a potential pocket. 4th Army arrives in force. Fuel and ammo situation became much better this turn. 9th army is making good progress towards Veliki Luki. 2nd Army is coming online behind 3PZ. 3 PZ area [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/turn5agc1.jpg[/image] And 2PZ area [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/turn5agc2.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/27/2011 4:41:51 PM)
Turn 5 losses and I think I am on the high side when comparing to other AARS and my Axis opponents in other games. I have noticed a tendency with my other opponents to not make nearly as many attacks as I do. I look at the situation as this is my time to cause casualties and many of these troops I am losing will probably succumb to the blizzard anyway. The time to kill on my terms is now. There wont be so many opportunities in the future. Also knowing the Soviet side to some extent I know the Soviet horde is not limitless. AT some point this forward defence of his is going to fall apart in at least one axis of my approach. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/turn5losses.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/27/2011 4:43:30 PM)
Turn 5 air losses - I have toned down the airfield strikes a bit only hitting airfields with bombers or transports. Still a good ratio in my favor. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/turn5airlosses.jpg[/image]

cookie monster -> RE: GC Ketza Axis vrs 76mm Soviet (No 76mm) (1/27/2011 5:13:32 PM)
I hate to see those 3 stacked hexes and linear lines by your opponent. That big pocket is truly a disaster. Hopefully he will adjust his troop placement otherwise he'll just be making pocket fodder.

Ketza -> Turn 6 (1/29/2011 9:40:53 PM)
AGN - Much action here as the pivotal battle of Novgorod started with the rescue of 8th PZ by 3 infantry divisions mounting hasty attacks into a swamp hex. The first 2 failed and after air support and some pioneers attached the 3rd attack broke through to 8th PZ. Revitalized with supply and its CV increased to 11 from 1 the Panzers hit Novgorod and took it with a 5-1 assault. This series of events was rather nerve racking as the 8th was totally surrounded. I did not expect to be able to take Novgorod. I suspect my opponent didnt either as he only had one rifle division there. The rest of 4th PG headed east south of the lake and crossed the first river. 16th army crushed many pockets of Soviets and pushed towards Leningrad as well as east south of the lake. 18th Army made a surprising leap to the Baltic and started its drive towards the Leningrad area as well. My opponent should have his hands full in this area. AGN had a fairly rapid advance and has some 30 infantry divisions in place threatning the whole length of the front and Soviet fort levels are low. 4th Pz is also close to bursting past lake Ilmen. 9th army is has maintaned contact to the south and is making headway to Velikie Luki. Overall I cant think of a better start for AGN. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn6AGN.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Turn 6 (1/29/2011 9:50:28 PM)
AGC - Unlike the frantic pace of AGN and AGS forces here are slowly advancing. 2nd army came online between 9th and 4th army and infantry from 3PZ was transferred. The Soviets had weakened the line in front of 3PZ dropping stacks from 3 units to 1 and 2nd army made deliberate attacks across its front routing and shattering 6 or so divisions and advancing a few hexes. In a move thats sure to make my opponent wonder I pulled 3PZ off the line completely and withdrew it close to my railhead in 9th army sector. From here it can threaten a few areas. I plan on leaving it a turn or so to suck up supply and rest for the next big push somewhee in the area. 4th army and 2PZ crossed the river at a few places and are starting to exert some pressure on his line. In a turn or 2 I should be able to burst through. A small pocket is formed at Mogilev. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn69thand2nd.jpg[/image] [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn64thand2pzg.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Turn 6 (1/29/2011 10:03:13 PM)
AGS - The big story is AGS. The pockets held and were both crushed by Rumanians, Hungarians and lower morale German divisions from 17th army. 5 of his divisions surrendered and here was the final tally: 8 arm XX 1 mot XX 25 inf XX 1 cav XX 4 other misc These were all some of his better divisions. Many of them had very high CV values (for Soviets anyway). After the pockets were crushed I saw an opportunity to create another small pocket on front of Kiev. As I was grinding out the edges of the pocket it became clear Kiev itself was very weak. Das reich had 23 mps so I decided to try an attack on the city hex itself. The resulting pocket holds 8 or so Divisions some with decent cobat values including a retreated calvary divsion with a CV of 5. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/battleofKiev.jpg[/image] The city fell and the panzers of 1st PG then locked down the new pocket and snuggled up to the river. One assault was made across the river further south and routed a calavry division. His position on the river is very weak. I think I will be over the river in force and rested by turn 8. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn6AGS.jpg[/image] The rest of the south has the usual herding of Soviets eastwARD BY 11th army. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn6AGS2.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Turn 6 (1/29/2011 10:10:43 PM)
I thought the pocket would produce more casualties then it did. I was hoping to get very close to 2 million by the end of the turn. 1000 T-34s dead by turn 6 seems good to me but I dont know for sure. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn6losses.jpg[/image] [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn6unitskilled.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Turn 6 (1/31/2011 4:16:47 AM)
I didnt mention it at the beginning but all comments and tips are welcome. This is my first PBEM. I have two other Soviet PBEMs that started later. AGN - No large breakthrough this time but headway was made all along the Leningrad front. Most of the infantry is in place to lay down some punishing attacks. One large XXX actually shattered a decent sized Soviet division. 8th Panzer grabbed some swamps and a small pocket was made but it can be rescued. Recon shows the Soviet fort line and reserves are weak. He has a pretty good line south of the lake but 4th Pz is about to burst through it. I moved 3PZ to the area in case of a major Soviet meltdown the next turn or two. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn7AGN.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Turn 6 (1/31/2011 4:20:21 AM)
AGC - 8 or 9 division pocket formed around Mogilev. 2nd army and 4th army continue to grind forward looking to clear him from the river and see what develops. 9th army is now next to Veliki Luki and slowly grinding through the bad terrain towards the hills. The pocket is under the grey info box lol. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/Turn7AGC.jpg[/image]

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