RE: 17th Army needs rescue!

RE: 17th Army needs rescue! (Full Version)

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PeeDeeAitch -> RE: 17th Army needs rescue! (4/2/2011 1:53:09 AM)
If you want an indication of what blizzard does to CV, rail one of those 18th Army divisions to a city in the Soviet Union(where they can detrain and not take hits from the weather). That will give you a fine look at what the decline is.

Klydon -> RE: 17th Army needs rescue! (4/2/2011 5:00:01 AM)
My guess on his 500 tank loss is you wacked a lot of light tanks, which he also produces by the bushel at this point. You may also be weeding through the last of the old crap as well, depending what he has committed where. (I have seen new tank brigades with old tanks). Not sure how much tank production he has railed out, but what is scary is everything he has railed out is still likely not back on line yet.

Ketza -> Spring break! (4/5/2011 9:33:10 PM)
Well late winter anyway. The first turn of snow saw a major bounce back in most of the Axis Army. In most cases I was pleasantly surprised as to what I found when I opened the turn. 6th,11th and to my amazement 17th army were in very good shape with CVs in the 6-7 range and a few 9s. All of the panzer armies were in very good shape especially 1st and 3rd who had been resting and sucking up fuel from J-52s for the last 3 turns in prep for the first snow turn. 4th and 16th army were ok but 2nd and 9th in some cases did not bounce the way the others did. My plan during the blizzard was to lure my opponent into doing a few things. He didnt really fdo what I wanted but came sorta close. He did not attack as much as I thought he would in general. I was prepared mentally to be on a final defence line in the center near Mogilev/Gomel and in the north to be driven back past Velikie luki. He really didnt press in theses areas at all. The result was less casualties for both of us and more options for me in the spring. In the south I was attempting to set up a few areas for a strategic counter by my actions during the blizzard. I wanted him to drive past Kursk and also drive up from the crimea. I didnt think he would be able to drive deep enough to develop a disaster. Except for almost losing 17th army (oops) things pretty much fell in place in the Kursk/Kharkov zone but he didnt push at all from the crimea which was odd to me. I was hoping to hold onto Kharkov but he really had way too many troops for that even with the massive casualties I had caused in the summer. I left the Rumanians out as bait but he did not take it. In the end I probably should have let him drive deeper near Kursk as the salient that developed was actually fairly small. Once it became clear where the front was going to wind up I pulled out the offensive units and started prepping 4 turns before the blizzard ended. So when I opened the turn all was prepped for 2 offensives and I let em rip.

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/5/2011 9:40:22 PM)
Turn 38 south - 1st Panzer leaps forward in an assault to cut the rails and drive a wedge to the sea. His stacks crumpled before the Panzers and infantry of 11th and 6th army which had been reinforced by pioneers and artillery that had been held in reserve all winter. It was rather easy to brush him aside which was a bit of a surprise. Even his "decent" stacks fell easily. In the part of the front near the mouth of the crimea Rumanians and elements of 11th army drive forward as well. Supporting them is a powerful PZ corps and 2 more infantry corps fresh from Germany. The PZ line should hold and infantry is on the way to reinforce them before he can realign enough forces to make a difference. The makings of a large pocket are forming. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/38south.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/5/2011 9:49:40 PM)
Kharkov front - 6th and 17th army launch attacks and break holes in his lines then 3rd Pz and 4th Pz slice off the salient which I wish I had let him advance further in. 13 or so tank brigades and infantry divisions in one large and one smaller pocket. 1 corp from Germany is on the way followed up by 18th army and its full strength divisions. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/38kharkov.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/5/2011 9:51:55 PM)
Center - attacks are made to cut down forts and prepare for future offensive ops here. [image]http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm11/Aztek43/38center.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/5/2011 9:55:06 PM)
I didnt take loss screenshots but for this turn losses were 5-1 in my favor. Airforce losses were pretty good at 8-1 or so as well. The plan for the snow turns is to just clean out a few areas of Soviets and start to reorganize for the big summer push.

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/13/2011 4:39:39 AM)
AGS - Operation Azov Turn 2 of snow sees the pocket begin to take shape. 1st Pz widens the gap a bit. I do think he will get guys in the pocket back in supply this turn but major infantry is on the way to the crimea to wrap up the pocket before mud and then reduce it during mud. [image]local://upfiles/23687/FD6DAA29DA864146AB9F418D405CDC22.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/13/2011 4:44:08 AM)
AGS - Kharkov sector - Pocket eliminated and the 17th army along with 3Pz drive his lines back to Sumy and capture the city. Pummeling away at his rather weak stacks. I have noticed an uptick in my own casualties in every attack. 17th and 6th army are very potent atm crushing his stacks. [image]local://upfiles/23687/BBD4D298951949F489061314E80D731D.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/13/2011 4:49:02 AM)
Losses - this turn he lost 300 tanks and 14 destroyed units. Good thing because he has a boatfull of them. When I do recon its rather depressing. I cant imagine how big his army would be if I didnt have 4.5 million casualties inflicted. 1942 is gonna be rough. [image]local://upfiles/23687/FCD85FF2E0124847A41807A6F3190A63.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/17/2011 4:36:10 AM)
Not much to report this turn. Finished sealing the pocket near Crimea and that whole are will open up nicely as he broke his lines and ran for it. Whacked some weak units along the line and set up 11th army lines. In most cases pulled the Panzers out of the lines and began to reshuffle support units for the summer offensive. I have pretty much decided on Moscow as he has the majority of his troops in the south as well as the fact thats the only place where industry has not been moved within reach. [image]local://upfiles/23687/E96BE1CDEB0C47FA87204E318E3F6C64.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/19/2011 4:13:54 AM)
Last turn of snow - South pocket situation should be settled during mud. Was actually able to break through his level 4 forts in the Crimea with the 11th army Pz Corps which has done an amazing job in operation Azov. A lot of his surrounded units tirned out to be brigades but a kill is a kill I suppose. Killed almost another 300 tanks this turn. Been able to keep his tank growth to around 4k but I think that level of Attrition will be unsustainable during April/May with mud. [image]local://upfiles/23687/96A1E52D92F446A982BCFF0B25D9C14A.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/19/2011 4:17:13 AM)
Was able to kill 34 units during snow. There are 12 more in the pocket. 45 or so in the counteroffensive isnt too bad but many of those units were weak. [image]local://upfiles/23687/BAE0DDBDDA9D4003950D141BD9EF58D5.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Spring break! (4/19/2011 4:19:53 AM)
Strength going into Spring: [image]local://upfiles/23687/62CF58AD931044B0B03670B31F15AE07.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:17:37 PM)
The roads dry up a bit and the weather gets warmer in early May. One of the first operations of the new campaign gets underway. What was supposed to be a probing attack turns into an all out offensive as it turns out the Soviet lines are weaker then what they appeared. Initial recon showed a very deep intricate Soviet front some 4-5 hexes deep. Forts were generally in the 2-3 range but lower further back from the front. Although unknown before the offensive started 5 different Soviet armies would be identified. In the middle of this complex defence sat the prize of Kharkov. [image]local://upfiles/23687/342C6FF404C4457189994661C7A5D801.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:21:32 PM)
Initial attacks were made by 6th army along the front to whittle down the forts for later in the summer. Results like these however led to the belief in may be time to step up the timetable. [image]local://upfiles/23687/767D73DBED1C4E5995F730460657B9E6.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:25:54 PM)
Next the 18th army which had been rested since its capture of Leningrad passed through the lines of the 6th army and hit the next Soviet line. Even level 3 forts with determined Soviet rifle divisions could not stand up to the power of the 18th army with its 14 well rested crack divisions. [image]local://upfiles/23687/E2CF3D138DA845E4B389E91198731D29.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:30:54 PM)
LAstly the 4th Pz went in to clear the way for the Kharkov attackers of 18th army held in reserve. [image]local://upfiles/23687/3E62D924B3FE49C9AB693FCC85257834.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:36:23 PM)
As the path to Kharkov is widened with other battles the 1st Corp of 18th army led by the SS police division assaults the city. Its held by the Soviet 173rd infantry division in level 2 forts and has a routed tank brigade with it. The initial battle started with the Soviet unit having a CV of over 900! I didnt think the city would fall but it seems the quality of the German forces won the day as well as air power and the city fell. [image]local://upfiles/23687/413A08387E5049159D5FBEACC54197C1.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:40:12 PM)
The Kharkov operation continued with the bulge widening as his weaker fort areas fell one after another. I wanted to create a pocket around some cav corps so I went ahead and commited 3rd PZ army and 2 cav corps and 4 infantry divisions were pocketed. [image]local://upfiles/23687/938FF03EE6B8406AA5DC141AFF7D8D9F.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:43:45 PM)
The operation itself was not as costly as I thought it would have been. Still maintaining a good ratio of losses. These are the losses after the fighting in the area. He also lost quite a few planes. [image]local://upfiles/23687/834164286BDC4527AE27D51AAF51B954.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 3:48:03 PM)
Going to finish the turn this afternoon I just wanted to take the time to put together a detailed battle report since I had been planning this offensive for so long. I am really glad it went off 5 turns early as this will give me more options in the summer and enable me to push up the Moscow operation quite a bit. So thats the 3rd time Kharkov has changed hands. Its pop is down to 10. I am sure we will fight for it somemore! [image]local://upfiles/23687/75DCF896D7F2412B882C16C3AE952816.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 5:53:34 PM)
Rest of the front was rather quiet except for some minor probing by 1st Pz near Azov, Odessa falling to 2nd Hungarian army and more progress in the Crimea. Next turn Im expecting mud and more organizing now that the timetable has shifted in a rather dramatic way. My army seems to be in good shape except for maybe 20 or so divisions in the 3-5 CV range. The Panzers are in top form. This turn the air war escalated for some reason (premptive strikes?) where he decided to attack my airfields and was handled rather roughly. I in turn launched my own air campaign and in the end the losses were 450 or so to 100 in my favor with around 40% of the losses being allied planes. [image]local://upfiles/23687/CA1191EDC5994910A6C2F1160ADD7F06.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/26/2011 7:50:18 PM)
Neat operation around Kharkov! What are your plans for the summer offensive?

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/27/2011 3:07:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Tarhunnas Neat operation around Kharkov! What are your plans for the summer offensive? Well I had plans but now they need to be changed reflecting this early success. I am however sad about my opponents recent email. Seems my Kharkov offensve has impacted his desire to continue. He is thinking about quitting the game but has not decided yet.

Q-Ball -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/27/2011 4:22:43 AM)
Quitting? It's not like he's losing.

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (4/27/2011 4:24:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Q-Ball Quitting? It's not like he's losing. A few more emails back and forth looks like he may be playing still. I hope so Im down to just this game.

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (5/4/2011 2:30:04 PM)
April showers bring May decisions... Well its spring and even with celebrating the Kharkov offensive the daunting task of cleaning Soviet carpets every turn loom ahead. To what end? He has already moved all of his factories within reach except Moscow so what really should be attempted at this juncture? What makes sense as far as kill ratios? Is it time for the strategic defensive which others have opted for in different AARS? Well there is few more clear/mud cycles to pass before a clear strategy is to be set. After recon heres a a portion of the front. Its rather intimidating to see level 2-3 forts 5-8 hexes deep. The pocket here was attacked and eliminated 4 infantry divisions and 2 Cav corps for a total of 60k prisoners. Things seemed weak towards Belgorod and over the river so the offensive resumed. [image]local://upfiles/23687/92DB456AAA0049E7BD7813A852A7244F.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (5/4/2011 2:35:58 PM)
The river was crossed and light Soviet units swept aside. Belgorod was Isolated and a trove of Soviet tank brigades was discovered in very light forts (level 2 haha)so they were pushed back. Upon doing this the makings of a pocket began to show itself. At this point 17th army advanced forward with the help of 2nd PZ and began whittling away at the northern Pincer. Also most of 4th Pz is in a bridgehead with light forts facing its front. [image]local://upfiles/23687/A07158C0210D464B82D47FF4F90B4B9B.jpg[/image]

Ketza -> RE: Battle of Kharkov! (5/4/2011 2:44:57 PM)
Closer to Stalino sector the 2nd Hungarian army arrives and 6th army launches an attack which isolates a division and knocks a line of forts down. Last turn for some reason he had abandoned several level 3 fort hexes so the front here has been inching forward with light casualties. [image]local://upfiles/23687/D92619D9A0C84454966470EE0DA6E922.jpg[/image]

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