RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy!

RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (Full Version)

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crsutton -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/5/2011 7:20:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel 12/17/41 Political Points: Those things are PRECIOUS. The Allies just don't have nearly enough. Some of the things I've paid for thus far: two B-17 squadrons in the Philippines (sent to Soerabaja); two AVG fighter squadrons (one now at Palembang, the other at Singapore); I bought the Rocky Mountain Battalion, now aboard transports and bound for Adak Island, I've replaced a few TF commanders (that paid big dividends for the Louisville TF when she went into battle at Rabaul a week ago); and one or two other units here and there. I believe in paying retail and in 9/43 of my campaign, I still am looking for Political Points. Don't know how fine it is for the Japanese side but they have got it just about right as far as the Allies go. I still got plenty of units in Canada, India and Oz that I would like to buy out.... but will have to wait.

witpqs -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/5/2011 9:08:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel 12/17/41 Political Points: Those things are PRECIOUS. The Allies just don't have nearly enough. Some of the things I've paid for thus far: two B-17 squadrons in the Philippines (sent to Soerabaja); two AVG fighter squadrons (one now at Palembang, the other at Singapore); I bought the Rocky Mountain Battalion, now aboard transports and bound for Adak Island, I've replaced a few TF commanders (that paid big dividends for the Louisville TF when she went into battle at Rabaul a week ago); and one or two other units here and there. I believe in paying retail and in 9/43 of my campaign, I still am looking for Political Points. Don't know how fine it is for the Japanese side but they have got it just about right as far as the Allies go. I still got plenty of units in Canada, India and Oz that I would like to buy out.... but will have to wait. I'll second that - in one PBM in mid February '44 I am still looking at needing a few months worth of PP's. And for the whole game I've done as little changing of leaders as possible. Some is needed to get poorly skilled fighter group leaders replaced, get Nimitz in place, etc. but I sit with most commanders I get just to save the points. Honestly I think they are too tight and should be loosened.

Bullwinkle58 -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/5/2011 11:12:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs Honestly I think they are too tight and should be loosened. I went with 70 per turn in my current game, and it's too loose. I have 1500 in the bank and no real needs for them in Dec. 1943. I think 60 per turn might be a sweet spot. I didn't like 50 per in my first game.

Canoerebel -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/5/2011 11:27:22 PM)
12/18/41 This was an unpleasant little turn. Only one bad thing happened, but nothing really good happened either. I've become an adrenaline junkey. Luzon: The Allies were quietly withdrawing from Iba back to Clark. I even had them set to combat mode just in case the enemy got frisky. The enemy got frisky, shock attacked, and destroyed something like 214 combat squads in the resulting 2:1 victory. Ouch! Ouch, ouch! My units are back at Clark, where I have 1,000+ AV, with another 300 at Manila. So the Allies aren't in danger of crumbling, but that hurt. Japan doesn't have anything particularly strong - one mixed brigade, a few regiments, some armored units, etc. Steve hasn't brought enough (yet) to do more than bottle me up at Clark and Bataan. NoPac: Amchita fell to a puny little base force wtih 10 AV. I'm assuming things will heat up as Steve won't want to lose this foothold. I have Houston and two DD there, with Lex and Sara a few days away. A US mountain battalion at Seatlle (only 36 AV, but that might be enough) will load aboard transports in about three days. CenPac: Ent continues to make good progress towards Los Angeles. Northhampton's FLT dropped from 72 to 70, so she may have a chance of making Pearl if she can avoid subs. She's following a good ASW TF and is perhaps three days away. SoPac: Japanese shock attack at Rabaul dropped forts to one, so my little roadblock won't last much longer. DEI: Repluse and PoW are both in the Indian Ocean making for distant Ceylon. Mauritius and Boise are likewise in the Indian bound for Oz. The Mini KB is off the radar screen at the moment. SigInt shows a battlion on a Maru bound for Mersing. Allied AV at Palembang is up to 300 and climbing at about 30 per day (excepting yesterday when a 40-AV unit arrived by land). I still have alot of Dutch units all over with AVs ranging from 10 to 30, so I can possibly get the AV up to around 400 or 450 before I need to draw on some of the Indian or Aussie units at Singapore (assuming I have enough AV at the time to buy the). I think I may assign Palembang a higher PP priority than the Aleutians.

paullus99 -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/6/2011 12:27:35 AM)
The Aleutians doesn't give you or your opponent really anything at this point - if you are able to create a major stumbling block at Palembang, that's a worthwhile cause.

Canoerebel -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/6/2011 1:59:23 PM)
12/19/41 NoPac: Paullus99 is right - the Aleutians aren't that important to Japan. But they are important to me for two reasons. First, I like to be able to use them to threaten NoPac and, as mentioned early on, I might want to strike west into the Kuriles if Steve really threatens Oz or India. Second, because the Aleutians really aren't that helpful to Japan, any forces Steve diverts up this way are kind of a waste for him. And right now I like the set-up. The Mini-KBs are down around the Philippines, so if Steve wants to cover his forces he has to commit fleet carriers (unlikely, but not impossible) and at least some cruisers. If I play things right, I think I may be able to garrison Attu and Adak, reclaim Amchitka, and use my carriers to pop some IJ ships on the nose. CenPac: Enterprise is half-way to LA. Northhampton is one or two days out of Pearl and looks good to make it barring sub problems. I have my damaged BBs at pier side working on SYS damage, but at least two are lightly damaged and will be sent to the West Coast in less than ten days. I'm worried about a second KB port strike in coming weeks, so I want to get some ships out of Dodge. SoPac: Rabaul falls. Tokyo Rose is a hussy. DEI: No signs of IJ shipping in the southern South China Sea or the Celebes areas at the moment. Very nice, but somewhat surprising. The Allies have two CL/DD groups now - one at Semereng and one at Soerabaja. CA Exeter and CL Daunltess to arrive from the west in two days. CA Australia, CA Louisville, and CL Adelaide to arrive from the east in three days. Palembang AV up to 338. That "Burma Relief Force" I diverted from Rangoon to Socatra a few days ago? Nah. Let's send that Indian brigade to Palembang. The transports are NE of Ceylon, so they have a way to go, but I like that idea. SigInt: Interesting nugget: 33rd Division on a Maru bound for Truk. This could be manipulated by a clever opponent, but if true that's a division generally sent to Burma or vicinity. Could this be an early sign of a move on Hawaii? I don't know, but I'll keep it in the back of my mind.

paullus99 -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/6/2011 3:47:09 PM)
I certainly understand your designs up north - it creates a creditable threat & forces your opponent to react, at least defensively, in case you decide to proceed with any offensive operations up there. I will say, a stand in the DEI may make your opponent think twice about a grab for Hawaii (or even pushing further into SOPAC) - since a lodgement at Palembang & perhaps even a secondary stand on Timor (reinforced out of India - because he can't push into India if you are actively threatening his flank, and holding vital resources that he needs). I do also understand this is scenario #2, so he does have extra resources to potential do two major operations at once, but I have a feeling that you can really crimp his style. I'm really looking forward to the next couple of months.

Canoerebel -> RE: Tokyo Rose was a Hussy! (3/7/2011 3:18:35 PM)
12/20/41 NoPac: Yikes, a Mavis patrol from Amchitka "snooped" Saratoga way up on the "Bering Sea" lettering! I'm assuming that was a solid report, so I'll have to be extra careful. I'm sending the carriers south of Dutch Harbor until they are needed to cover landings and until I can get some picket ships in place. At Seattle, a mountain battalion and an army regiment are loading aboard transports bound for Amchitka. They will have low prep and will accrue alot of disruption given winter conditions, but I think I can get enough ashore to take the very lightly held island. I would consider using my dive bombers to assist in this operation when the time comes. CenPac: Northampton made Pearl (a small but important victory). Enterprise is down to 5/23 and is about three or four days away from Los Angeles. Based upon very little to this point, my early suspicion is that Steve might be interested in a move on Hawaii as opposed to Oz or India. Of course, at this early date I'm not "assuming" or "acting upon" any such hunch. SoPac: Temporarily quiet here. In about a week, defense of this region will be in the hands of CAs Minneapolis and Indianapolis. DEI: A large IJ force of some kind - probably combat ships and an invasion force - is approaching the northern waters, perhaps bound for Morotai, Manado, or Ternate. No early plans to contest this as I'm awaiting arrival of some heavy cruisers. Over to the west, I think a large IJ amphibious force is moving on Mersing, but I'm not quite sure yet. BB Kongo and CVE Hosho are present. The Allied AV at Palembang is up to 374. Most of these are "light" troops without any heavy weapons, so the garrison isn't as strong as it might seem. Fortress Palembang: I've been mulling over this move and whether or not it's gamey as I define it. I don't think so and I'm not requesting input from readers (at least not yet), but here's some of my thinking. Two weeks into the real war, the Allies were in total disarray. They weren't sure what was happening and certainly didn't have the knowledge or ability or desire to drawn down all the various island garrisons to create some major fortress. Certainly Palembang didn't have a magical ability to generate supplies sufficient to serve a huge garrison into perpetuity. On the other hand, Japan didn't have immense foreknowledge that allowed it to do stuff like bypass Luzon (which I think Steve is doing, which is a very good move IMO) or mount early and major amphious operations deep in enemy territory. From a real life standpoint, both sides are operating outside the bounds of what could have been done. But from a game standpoint, both sides are doing things that are sensible and seem reasonable to me. So, I don't think Fortress Palembang is gamey (as I define it).

Canoerebel -> These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 3:56:18 PM)
These are the voyages.... During my game with Miller, I would sometimes post the paths taken by various Allied units throughout the game. It was interesting (to me) to see how an American division that started at San Diego might help garrison Pago Pago, then take part in the invasion of Timor, then would end up in the invasion of Borneo; or how a ship might take part in a clash, end up in the yards for a year, steam back to the front, and promptly get sunk. With that in mind, here are some early units to keep an eye on: CL Boise: This ship fled Cebu west through the Sulu Sea and broke for safety into the South China Sea. After rendezvouing with Force Z near Pontianak around December 11, she accompanied Forze Z into a major clash just west of Singkawang on December 13, roughing up and turning away the invasion force. Boise took light/moderate damage. She is making for the yards at Melbourne and should arrive in about eight days. CA Houston: Fleeing Iloilo into the Philippine Sea at the start of the war, Houston's first target was to approach Wake Island to strike any invasion force that might arrive there. When it seemed the KB might be retiring towards Wake, however, Houston turned NE and made for the Aluetians. She was one day too late to participate in the little naval battle that took place when the Japanese invaded Amchitka Island. She is now at Dutch Harbor, paired with two DDs to serve as a rapid deployment force in the event the Japanese bring reinforcements to Amchitka. 6th Indian Brigade: This unit begins the game at Alor Star and somehow got cut-off from Singapore (a failure of a commanding officer, methinks). Currently, a small detachment has been airlifted to Port Blair, part of an ongoing effort to bolster that island's defense. Meanwhile, the bulk of 6th Indian is on the march northeast towards Singore to see if that base has been evacuated by the advancing enemy. 8th Marine Regiment: This units begins the game at San Diego. She loaded aboard troop transports and departed San Diego around December 18, bound for Pago Pago. xAP Dominican Monarch: Beginning the war at Singapore, this ship joined four other xAP, one xAK, 2 AMC, and an AM in comprising TF 193. The TF loaded fuel and departed for Townsville, Australia, within a day. The TF is currently in the Banda Sea and seems likely to make its destination.

JohnDillworth -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 7:16:26 PM)
quote: Fortress Palembang Are you talking about moving all the units on the peninsula there or everything in the DEI there? If you are moving everything in the DEI there won't you have to pay PP to load them on a boat even though it's just a short hop? thanks

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 7:27:06 PM)
You can transport Dutch colonial units to Palembang by air without paying political points since they belong to the same HQ. I've been doing this since about December 10. Most are coming from Java, but some from Borneo, Celebes, etc. I have a massive network of transports and patrol aircraft acting as transports. I probably have parts of 15 units at Palembang now, mostly Dutch units but a few British. I would have to pay PP to be able to transfer these units by ship. I haven't done so (except one or two Brit units) because PP are so precious. At some point, I do hope to buy one of the two Australian units at or near Singapore.

JohnDillworth -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 9:10:29 PM)
So I could air transport cadres out of the Philippines for all my US Army units?

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 9:32:47 PM)
I think you can transfer the US Army units assigned to the Asiatic HQ and some others can be bought (the B-17 squadrons, for instance, and some of the base forces). I think most or all of the fighting units are in restricted commands that cannot be transferred by air or sea, and you don't have the option of paying PP for them either.

bradfordkay -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 11:21:35 PM)
Most of the NEI ground forces are permanently restricted, so you will not be spending PPs to move them. You will only be able to move the portions which can be flown in, leaving behind their heavy equipment.

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 11:37:38 PM)
That's right, though, as Nemo pointed out, some of the patrol aircraft are big enough to handle larger equipment. Also, you're right in clarifying that most (all?) of the Dutch units are permanently assigned to HQ and can't be bought. I just looked at the AAR for Adm. Spruance vs. Vettim and noted that the former is also using the Fortress Palembang option. Vettim countered with one, then two, IJA divisions. As of early February 1942, the Allies still hold the base, though that may be temporary. I need to go back and see what Spruance's AV was and his adjusted AV. The roster of units at Palembang for him looks very similar to mine.

Cribtop -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/7/2011 11:54:16 PM)
I don't think gathering forces at Palembang is gamey. That would mean that any more concentrated deployment of force than the historical result would be out of bounds (i.e. no Fortress Java, Timor, etc either). The troubling issues are the auto supply and the scorched earth strategy. I don't think there is enough supply to hold out against a multi-divisional IJA attack forever if done right, and you've already offered some concession about the engineer issue. Thus, I vote not gamey. A little scary for JFBs, but the historical Allies planned to destroy the oil and the historical IJA launched a major (and generally unsuccessful) paratroop op to try to seize the Palembang oil facilities for just the reasons under discussion.

desicat -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 12:03:03 AM)
I had to look up the IJA para assault on Palembang as I had never heard about it before. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Palembang http://www.reocities.com/dutcheastindies/palembang.html http://www.liveleak.com/view?c=1&i=09b_1291173811 Thank you Cribtop.

JohnDillworth -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 12:59:16 AM)
Well one could always put that British Division headed for Singapore there. I suspect, however, that the Division might be needed elsewhere

SuluSea -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 2:56:59 AM)
CR I always divide the DC-2s in China and fly two of the units down into the DEI to help ferry troops around. the allied player just doesn't have enough transports for his needs. When I used the fortress Palembang and got evicted in 9/42 it caused industry to be wrecked to the single digits , I had 110,000 in supply and was able to hold on for 5 months IIRC, albeit the IJ player wasn't doing everything he could to make me burn supply until atleast halfway into the seige.

bradfordkay -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 4:47:50 AM)
"CR I always divide the DC-2s in China and fly two of the units down into the DEI to help ferry troops around. the allied player just doesn't have enough transports for his needs." How on earth do you manage to do that? In my game I received a grand total of 5 DC-2s for the Chinese air force, and so far (by mid November 1942) 22 DC-3s to replace those planes (this is all with PDU off). Do you really find that this small number of aircraft is helpful?

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 5:09:08 AM)
On turn one or two, I paid political points to free the US transport squadron that starts the game in southern China. Since then that squadron has been based mainly out of Batavia flying troops to Palembang. It's an important part of the lift capacity, because there's only one other true transport squadron IIRC (the Dutch one). The rest of the lift capacity comes from patrol aircraft of all makes, sizes, and nationalities. In ten days, that cobbled together transport effort has carried something over 300 AV to Palembang.

obvert -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 8:41:04 AM)
What are the plans for Java? Are you planning to build that up and try to hold parts of it as well?

SuluSea -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 12:25:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay "CR I always divide the DC-2s in China and fly two of the units down into the DEI to help ferry troops around. the allied player just doesn't have enough transports for his needs." How on earth do you manage to do that? In my game I received a grand total of 5 DC-2s for the Chinese air force, and so far (by mid November 1942) 22 DC-3s to replace those planes (this is all with PDU off). Do you really find that this small number of aircraft is helpful? Scenario 1 starts with 21 DC-2s in China, 3 of them being damaged. I baby 'em because of replacements but still will prolly end up with 5 or less in each fragment when the units exit the DEI. [image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/dc-2.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 12:35:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert What are the plans for Java? Are you planning to build that up and try to hold parts of it as well? To create the Fortress Palembang defense, a player has to rely heavily on Dutch troops from Java, leaving that island almost undefended. That's as must be if you're going to defend Palembang to the max. The up side to this strategy is that it might create great inefficiencies on the part of the Japanese player. He might allocate too few troops to take Palembang and far too many to take Java. Let's hope for great inefficiencies in this game.

bradfordkay -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 4:19:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SuluSea quote: ORIGINAL: bradfordkay "CR I always divide the DC-2s in China and fly two of the units down into the DEI to help ferry troops around. the allied player just doesn't have enough transports for his needs." How on earth do you manage to do that? In my game I received a grand total of 5 DC-2s for the Chinese air force, and so far (by mid November 1942) 22 DC-3s to replace those planes (this is all with PDU off). Do you really find that this small number of aircraft is helpful? Scenario 1 starts with 21 DC-2s in China, 3 of them being damaged. I baby 'em because of replacements but still will prolly end up with 5 or less in each fragment when the units exit the DEI. [image]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b11/Noopers/dc-2.jpg[/image] There must have been a database change. In my game that unit had a whopping 5 DC-2s in it...

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 7:22:23 PM)
12/21/42 Another day with some frustration and nothing tangible to get excited about...but, hey, we're only two weeks into the war. Northern DEI: An amphibious group including BB Hyuga is at Ternate, apparently without any air cover. Oh, if I just had some capital ships to commit, I would love a crack at a seemingy vulnerable BB. But my reinforcing heavy cruisers (Exeter, Australia, and Louisville) aren't in position yet. It would be a minimum of three days before they could strike. Drat! Western DEI: The IJ ships that I thought might be heading toward Mersing didn't. Perhaps they brought reinforcements to Kuantan. Palembang's AV is up to 403. Steve dropped paratroops at Sabang, but they weren't quite strong enough to take the base. They may tomorrow, however. NoPac: Nothing happening here at the moment, but several Allied troop transports are in the Gulf of Alaska, bound for Adak Island, and the Amchitka counter-invasion transports are loading at Seattle. Steve will be alert to moves like this (he may even be using Amchitka as bait), so I'll have to be cautious lest I blunder into an ambush. China: Hong Kong fell to a shock attack by two IJA divisions plus artillery. Two-Week Assessment: The Allies have had a number of notable victories thus far and just a few major setbacks (ahem, loss of BB West Virginia; repulse of the Philippine army at Iba, and loss of Amchitka come to mind). Nevertheless, the Japanese are making what seems to be decent progress. Steve is on track in the Philippines and Malaya and perhaps lagging just a big in the DEI. He's got Rabaul, Tarawa, and Amchitka in the Pacific. My early hunch is that he might be looking at Hawaii. This is based upon slender evidence: massive sub presence around Pearl Harbor plus SigInt that 33rd Division was heading for Truk. Thus far I haven't seen any of the "free" IJA divisions anywhere on the map - Philippines, Malaya, Burma, or anywhere else. So it seems he's gathering forces to deliver a hammer-blow. At least that's my early thinking.

paullus99 -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 8:25:44 PM)
If he's trying to lure you up north, it is a pretty slender attempt. Of course, he would have had no idea your carriers would have been in position, so more likely he's pushing his defensive perimeter out a bit (given your propensity to use this area as an avenue of attack). He certainly has bigger fish to fry down south - he's got a Southern Resource Area to grab as quickly as possible & if it doesn't realize everything else is a sideshow until that happens, you have an opponent that can easily be led into dead-end attacks.

crsutton -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 8:47:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel On turn one or two, I paid political points to free the US transport squadron that starts the game in southern China. Since then that squadron has been based mainly out of Batavia flying troops to Palembang. It's an important part of the lift capacity, because there's only one other true transport squadron IIRC (the Dutch one). The rest of the lift capacity comes from patrol aircraft of all makes, sizes, and nationalities. In ten days, that cobbled together transport effort has carried something over 300 AV to Palembang. He must suspect something. To prevent this strategy why would the Japanese player not fly LRCap over Palembang?

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 9:11:13 PM)
He's not close enough to do that yet. His closest airfield is Kuantan.

Canoerebel -> RE: These are the Voyages... (3/8/2011 10:40:09 PM)
12/22/41 Eastern DEI: The Japanese take Ternate. Allied heavy cruisers (RN, RAN, and USN) will be available in this region in a day or two, so the Allies will be in a position to oppose the enemy if opportuntiies arise. Western DEI: The AV at Palembang increased to 421, but that's a much smaller rise than previous turns. Some of the units are down to just heavy equipment, so I'll have to scour bases for transportable infantry. I do have part of an Indian brigade (roughly 33 AV) evacuated from Singapore set to arrive tomorrow. I have accumulated about 200 political points, so in four or five days I can decide whether to buy one of the Australian units (that's a tough call, because I'll have roughly 800 to 900 AV at Singapore, which also serves as an important speed bump). A Japanese force of some sort is squatting at Mersing, but hasn't begun unloading yet. Sabang held. NoPac: Lots of Allied ships on the way - to serve as pickets, AS and AD to support subs and destroyers, a combat TF to watch over the area, two carrier TFs, a replenishment TF, and the various troop transports bound for Adak, Amchitka, and Attu. The Amchitka-bound troops should depart Seattle tonight. CenPac: Northampton is in the yards at Pearl; Enterprise will arrive at Los Angeles tomorrow (her damage is 5/23, so she won't be tied up too awfully long). A CD at SF is boarding transports bound for Midway; another is boarding for the journey to Lihuna (the port east of Pearl Harbor). SoPac: Indianapolis is on the way to Townsville to join some DDs. Another cruiser is further east. They are the Allied navy in this area for now.

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