RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (Full Version)

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Rainer -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/9/2011 11:07:59 PM)

m7a with all due respect [;)] post #836




Andrew Brown -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 1:16:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: hades1001

Would you please tell me how fast should a Jap inf div go in this particular hex I highlighted in the pic?
And how do you do the math?

Thanks!


[image]local://upfiles/27530/6CF818A50AD0483E8528D19A19664239.jpg[/image]



I think your first problem is you are confusing the AE- Secondary Road with the WitP- Trail. The screen shot shows a hex with a secondary road.

IIRC movement rates from one hex to the next is an average of the two hexes.

So assuming the other screen shot above is accurate and the movement was due west...then the movement rate per day would be 4 for the current hex + 15 for the cultivated hex = 19 /2 = 9.5 miles per day modified by disruption and fatigue among other things ...assuming move mode.


Yes that is a secondary road. The only place trails exist in the AE map data are along railway lines, where there are no adjacent roads (these "trails" represent the ability to move along the rail bed). No other trails are present in the map data, just secondary and main roads.

Just some additional info regarding movement rates: it is not be calculated as an average (at least I hope not, after providing the AE coders with the algorithms required). Movement between two hexes is the combination of two, separate, "half hex" moves. Consider the above example (half a hex of jungle then half a hex of road) to show how these approaches differ:

1) As a combination of two half hex moves, a unit moving 4 miles/day in jungle and 15 miles/day on a road would take 6 days to traverse the jungle "half hex" (23 miles of jungle) and 2 days to traverse the road "half hex" (23 miles of road) for a total of 8 days of travel. That is the correct time span.

2) If a simple average of the two movement rates were to be used instead, the average of the two movement rates, 15 and 4, would be 9.5 miles/day, and the time to cover the 46 miles (1 hex) of half jungle and half road would be 5 days instead of 8 days. Not correct.

Andrew




Andrew Brown -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 1:19:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2
IMHO, the way it SHOULD work is a unit not in a base draws supply from the closest base. PERIOD. (ed. Closest base being defined as in supply movement points not raw distance - wanted to clarify that). If there arent supplies at that base, then someone (the player) or someTHING (the program) had better move some there. The unit in the bush should die BEFORE the unit in the base does, and the closer a unit is to a given base, the more likely it should be to get supplies from that base vs a unit further away does.


FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew




witpqs -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 1:29:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rainer

m7a with all due respect [;)] post #836


Oops - thanks for catching my error! [8D]




witpqs -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 1:37:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew


Andrew, basing supply solely on the closest base does not make sense, and here is why. Units moving toward the front lines or behind the front lines by any appreciable distance are certainly, IRL, going to be supplied from the base to their rear. The alternative is for supplies to move all the way forward, and then backward. In cases where units are close to the forward base that makes sense. But in cases where the unit is only a little closer, or somewhat closer to the forward base this does not make sense. The problem of course is how is the programmer to sort out which base is which in many situations. I think switching over to that motif would make things worse, not better. [8D]

BTW, with the recent Betas I have noticed that supplies flow more slowly in general, and seemingly somewhat smoother with less in the way of dead spaces (meaning bases that are starved while all nearby bases are flush).




championzhao -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 5:09:00 AM)

http://ishare.iask.sina.com.cn/f/11974021.html

1939 China maps

[;)]




CV 2 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 6:34:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew


Andrew, basing supply solely on the closest base does not make sense, and here is why. Units moving toward the front lines or behind the front lines by any appreciable distance are certainly, IRL, going to be supplied from the base to their rear. The alternative is for supplies to move all the way forward, and then backward. In cases where units are close to the forward base that makes sense. But in cases where the unit is only a little closer, or somewhat closer to the forward base this does not make sense. The problem of course is how is the programmer to sort out which base is which in many situations. I think switching over to that motif would make things worse, not better. [8D]

BTW, with the recent Betas I have noticed that supplies flow more slowly in general, and seemingly somewhat smoother with less in the way of dead spaces (meaning bases that are starved while all nearby bases are flush).


Units coming out of supplied bases have a months worth of supply within the unit itself (in the game), so "feeding" the unit is a non-issue. I dont see what your problem is with it.

If you are talking about if the unit engages in combat "as its moving toward the front" (lets say the "front" it is moving to is the India boarder near Imphal and it engages in combat in the hex north east of Mandalay). You are saying that the bullets should come from Rangoon because thats where the unit started it move weeks ago? Rather than Mandalay where it got off the trains and started moving forward?

I just want to be clear. Is this what you are saying?

Or are you saying that a unit moving to say Akyab from points south should not get their supply from Akyab until they actually get there? Again, because the unit carries enough supply with it to last a month if not in combat, I see this as a non-issue. If it does engage, then clearly the bullets it needs are going to come from the closest source, wouldnt you agree?




PaxMondo -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 12:41:38 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: championzhao

http://ishare.iask.sina.com.cn/f/11974021.html

1939 China maps

[;)]


THANKS. Great stuff.




Andrew Brown -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 12:55:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CV 2

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: Andrew Brown

FWIW I agree with this. There should also be limits on how much supply can move between adjacent bases, based on the supply cost of the move.

Andrew


Andrew, basing supply solely on the closest base does not make sense, and here is why. Units moving toward the front lines or behind the front lines by any appreciable distance are certainly, IRL, going to be supplied from the base to their rear. The alternative is for supplies to move all the way forward, and then backward. In cases where units are close to the forward base that makes sense. But in cases where the unit is only a little closer, or somewhat closer to the forward base this does not make sense. The problem of course is how is the programmer to sort out which base is which in many situations. I think switching over to that motif would make things worse, not better. [8D]

BTW, with the recent Betas I have noticed that supplies flow more slowly in general, and seemingly somewhat smoother with less in the way of dead spaces (meaning bases that are starved while all nearby bases are flush).


Units coming out of supplied bases have a months worth of supply within the unit itself (in the game), so "feeding" the unit is a non-issue. I dont see what your problem is with it.

If you are talking about if the unit engages in combat "as its moving toward the front" (lets say the "front" it is moving to is the India boarder near Imphal and it engages in combat in the hex north east of Mandalay). You are saying that the bullets should come from Rangoon because thats where the unit started it move weeks ago? Rather than Mandalay where it got off the trains and started moving forward?

I just want to be clear. Is this what you are saying?

Or are you saying that a unit moving to say Akyab from points south should not get their supply from Akyab until they actually get there? Again, because the unit carries enough supply with it to last a month if not in combat, I see this as a non-issue. If it does engage, then clearly the bullets it needs are going to come from the closest source, wouldnt you agree?


Best to take any discussions about design issues to a separate thread, I think.

Andrew




asdicus -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/10/2011 11:13:45 PM)

Using 1108m7 beta in my pbm game vs japs.

if you right click on pilots in the aircraft squadron screen you used to get a list of damaged aircraft repair times etc - with this new m7 beta it just displays the list of squadron pilots same as if you left click on pilots. This was working ok up to m6 beta.




Alfred -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/11/2011 12:15:18 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: asdicus

Using 1108m7 beta in my pbm game vs japs.

if you right click on pilots in the aircraft squadron screen you used to get a list of damaged aircraft repair times etc - with this new m7 beta it just displays the list of squadron pilots same as if you left click on pilots. This was working ok up to m6 beta.


Read post #807.

Alfred




asdicus -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/11/2011 1:36:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred


quote:

ORIGINAL: asdicus

Using 1108m7 beta in my pbm game vs japs.

if you right click on pilots in the aircraft squadron screen you used to get a list of damaged aircraft repair times etc - with this new m7 beta it just displays the list of squadron pilots same as if you left click on pilots. This was working ok up to m6 beta.


Read post #807.

Alfred

Oops sorry my mistake. Did not notice the new planes button with this info. Thanks.




inqistor -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/11/2011 7:54:09 AM)

Is there a possibility to somehow show TFs with full speed on game map?


When I spread convoys, because of raiders, I frequently end with ships at destination, still set to full speed. It is pretty hard to trace all those TFs, when there is lots of raiders/KB in the area.




BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/11/2011 9:07:32 AM)

Is there anything that lifts the limit(Level 7 AF + 20k supply) of upgrading AGs?
If not than I wonder why I can upgrade a unit in Calcutta, supply is big enough but airfield is only level 4.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/11/2011 9:36:18 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BigDuke66

Is there anything that lifts the limit(Level 7 AF + 20k supply) of upgrading AGs?
If not than I wonder why I can upgrade a unit in Calcutta, supply is big enough but airfield is only level 5.


Air HQ in range of base will lower the min AF required




BigDuke66 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/11/2011 9:51:05 AM)

Ok got it, its in transfer range of the command level HQ sorry for the interruption.
But as you mention it, how much lower can the airfield be if the air HQ is within transfer range, the manual states that I still need an 7+ airfield for that, only the use of a command level HQ doesn't seem to have a minimum airfield required.


Any chance you could at a button for switching the views of AGs within an Air HQ between those based on land and those on a ship(AKs transporting them), I just realized that I can see the units on a ship if I use the Show XY from the screen of one of the loaded AGs, would be nice if we could simply switch it in the Air HQ screen, a button the click thru Land based, Ship based or both for example.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m8 updated 12 June (6/12/2011 2:49:54 AM)


[1108m8]
Fixed Transfer carrier trained status when recombining split groups [MEM]
Fixed Ship due upgrade count could have a number but nothing in due lists. Upgrade ship was under repair [MEM]
(Combination of Ships under repair and Ships due upgrade shows those which are being repaired that might jump into an upgrade at same time)
Fixed Wrong pilot reserve being accessed when no pilots in replacement pool [MEM]
Fixed Pass over any TOE upgrade for Torpedo Ordnance device. Include HQ type/radius change [MEM]
Added Show speed mode in TF list [MEM]
Tweaked Message delays - space bar will turn toggle the general message delay off/on [MEM]
Tweaked No spoilage on excess supply/fuel at SPS level for bases in first week of scenario [MEM]





PaxMondo -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m8 updated 12 June (6/12/2011 4:56:49 AM)

Thanks Michael!!!

[&o][&o][&o]

Tweaked Message delays - space bar will turn toggle the general message delay off/on [MEM]
This is a very nice UI feature addition. THANKS!!




inqistor -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m8 updated 12 June (6/12/2011 11:34:21 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

[1108m8]
Added Show speed mode in TF list [MEM]
Tweaked No spoilage on excess supply/fuel at SPS level for bases in first week of scenario [MEM]


GREAT!
Thanks!




m10bob -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m8 updated 12 June (6/12/2011 12:53:50 PM)

Thank you Michaelm




Reg -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m8 updated 12 June (6/12/2011 1:39:24 PM)


The man is a dynamo!!! [&o][&o]

Great stuff, keep them improvements coming!!! [:D][:D]





erstad -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/12/2011 5:35:08 PM)

Do any of the beta updates affect the way a few units in an enemy hex will hog all of the supply, leaving other units in the stack in the red? I thought I had seen that somewhere as being addressed, but when I look at the beta fix list in post#1 I didn't see it.

One of my PBEM partners is being disadvantaged by this problem.




littleike -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/12/2011 6:40:29 PM)

Great support Michaelm!!


Please could you give me an update to a request i made sometime ago for a feature to know the hex coordinates of an
hex hovering with the mouse? You told me that you had to do some tests due to the game engine design but i have seen
nothing from that day on the various patches so i don't know if this implementation is not possible or you dont have had
yet the time to look at that request due all the other hard work you are doing for much important things than this.

In any case, because i would like to mantain things simplest as possible with the minimum effort for you i ask:

If the hovering with the mouse is not possible or too difficult to implement could it be possible to have a toggle key (like the 4 key for the supply)
to show/unshow the hex coordinates of the hexes on the map or (at least) to mark/unmark a single hex for subsequent reference?

Many thanks for your astounding support.




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 4:57:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: erstad

Do any of the beta updates affect the way a few units in an enemy hex will hog all of the supply, leaving other units in the stack in the red? I thought I had seen that somewhere as being addressed, but when I look at the beta fix list in post#1 I didn't see it.

One of my PBEM partners is being disadvantaged by this problem.

Yep. There was a tweak to how suppplies were distributed in a non-base hex between units.
This is usually after a landing or such where one unit tended to hog the unloading supplies. However, the check is part of the normal LCU supply/support phase for units on the map.
Tweaked Distribution of supplies to units unloading from ships. [MEM]




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 5:06:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: littleike

Great support Michaelm!!


Please could you give me an update to a request i made sometime ago for a feature to know the hex coordinates of an
hex hovering with the mouse? You told me that you had to do some tests due to the game engine design but i have seen
nothing from that day on the various patches so i don't know if this implementation is not possible or you dont have had
yet the time to look at that request due all the other hard work you are doing for much important things than this.

In any case, because i would like to mantain things simplest as possible with the minimum effort for you i ask:

If the hovering with the mouse is not possible or too difficult to implement could it be possible to have a toggle key (like the 4 key for the supply)
to show/unshow the hex coordinates of the hexes on the map or (at least) to mark/unmark a single hex for subsequent reference?

Many thanks for your astounding support.


I had tried it but it displayed a popup everytime the mouse stopped moving. Apart from overriding normal popup boxes, it tended to leave a trail of popups across the map. In addition, the CPU ussage increased because of the extra activity of drawing/closing popups every second.
I was going to try something else but forgot to follow it up. Will so so at next opportunity.




witpqs -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 5:32:40 AM)

This is a small request to help pilot management. Pilot management has been improved so much it's not a huge deal if this can't be squeezed in. I don't mean to be wordy, but to explain the request clearly:

In a squadron on the pilots list you can see the pilots assigned to that squadron. If a pilot has a delay of 0 or 1 you can send him to the general reserve (other conditions being met), but if a pilot has a delay of 2 or more you can not send them to the general reserve. Could this be changed so that you can send a pilot to the general reserve even if they are 'still in transit' to the squadron (have a delay 2 or greater)?

The reason that this would help is that many, many pilots arrive at squadrons long after the squadrons have been deployed to the front lines. Those pilots, while often good with Experience, are poor in skills (this is because the pilots do not have skills assigned in the database). This is just a natural consequence of the pilot skills and the way that players have evolved in their training habits. An example is that front line fighter pilots are considered 'fully trained' by most players when they have about 70 Air skill and some acceptable value of Experience and Def skill. But when a new pilot arrives directly to that front line squadron, the great majority of the time their Air skill is in the 50s (although sometimes in the low 60s or high 40s). Being in a squadron in combat, the player will send that pilot to the reserve as soon as he sees him, and later pull that pilot into a rear area squadron to get his Air skill trained up.

As the game gets into '43 and '44 there are many, many of these pilot arrivals and a lot of squadrons to check. So, the player will often see such a pilot but can not send him to the reserve because the delay is 2 or greater. This means that the player has to remember to go back to check that squadron on the correct turn to catch the pilot with a delay of 1 (before the pilot gets into combat and loses an air frame while getting KIA). Sometimes in fact a squadron will have a few pilots arriving over a few day period, resulting in even more visits to the squadron. If a pilot could be sent to the general reserve straight away regardless of delay then the player could deal with any such pilots as he finds them.

A lot of words to explain a simple concept, but I wanted to show why this proposed change would be of value to players. Thanks for considering it.

[8D]




viberpol -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 12:35:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I think there are basically 2 DLLs - the one in the main game directory which should be last official one, and the one the beta2 directory off the game directory for m4+ games.
The beta one should be able to handle earlier games as it was  only updated to include an extra piece of data in the save.
The extra complication was that at about the same time Microsoft updated their 2005/8 C++ libraries which got built into the new DLL.


Michael, doesn't the problems with beta saves and Tracker stem from save file incompatibility? Or it's only because of different dlls used during save?

Something weird happened between m3/m4/m5 betas... previously it was possible to load up a save from beta (m3) with the engine of the latest official patch/official ongoing PBEM installation.
Now when you try to load a save under beta in latest official (it's v1.01.06i me thinks) you've got "save game failed to load" info. It's just a guess, but maybe this is why people have problems with Tracker and the latest betas... any way to fix this incompatibility?




CV 2 -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 12:47:41 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

This is a small request to help pilot management. Pilot management has been improved so much it's not a huge deal if this can't be squeezed in. I don't mean to be wordy, but to explain the request clearly:

In a squadron on the pilots list you can see the pilots assigned to that squadron. If a pilot has a delay of 0 or 1 you can send him to the general reserve (other conditions being met), but if a pilot has a delay of 2 or more you can not send them to the general reserve. Could this be changed so that you can send a pilot to the general reserve even if they are 'still in transit' to the squadron (have a delay 2 or greater)?

The reason that this would help is that many, many pilots arrive at squadrons long after the squadrons have been deployed to the front lines. Those pilots, while often good with Experience, are poor in skills (this is because the pilots do not have skills assigned in the database). This is just a natural consequence of the pilot skills and the way that players have evolved in their training habits. An example is that front line fighter pilots are considered 'fully trained' by most players when they have about 70 Air skill and some acceptable value of Experience and Def skill. But when a new pilot arrives directly to that front line squadron, the great majority of the time their Air skill is in the 50s (although sometimes in the low 60s or high 40s). Being in a squadron in combat, the player will send that pilot to the reserve as soon as he sees him, and later pull that pilot into a rear area squadron to get his Air skill trained up.

As the game gets into '43 and '44 there are many, many of these pilot arrivals and a lot of squadrons to check. So, the player will often see such a pilot but can not send him to the reserve because the delay is 2 or greater. This means that the player has to remember to go back to check that squadron on the correct turn to catch the pilot with a delay of 1 (before the pilot gets into combat and loses an air frame while getting KIA). Sometimes in fact a squadron will have a few pilots arriving over a few day period, resulting in even more visits to the squadron. If a pilot could be sent to the general reserve straight away regardless of delay then the player could deal with any such pilots as he finds them.

A lot of words to explain a simple concept, but I wanted to show why this proposed change would be of value to players. Thanks for considering it.

[8D]


What I do in this situation is transfer the guy to a "training" squadron (by going to that squadron and selecting "get veteran"). The reason for putting him in the pool is to put him in a training squadron anyway I assume. But I cant say that it wouldnt be nice to be able to move them regardless of delay.

In that same vein, would be nice if the delay was moved to the other side of the display (since you select by pilot name) or the color was changed so it is easier to identify (maybe light blue instead of a slightly different shade of white?). Also in the "get veteran" list again, the squadron would be better nearer the name since that is what you are selecting from. In both these cases, you look at the far right column, then try to trace across to the far left to select the pilot. Hard on these old eyes. [:'(]




michaelm75au -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 1:11:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: viberpol

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm
I think there are basically 2 DLLs - the one in the main game directory which should be last official one, and the one the beta2 directory off the game directory for m4+ games.
The beta one should be able to handle earlier games as it was  only updated to include an extra piece of data in the save.
The extra complication was that at about the same time Microsoft updated their 2005/8 C++ libraries which got built into the new DLL.


Michael, doesn't the problems with beta saves and Tracker stem from save file incompatibility? Or it's only because of different dlls used during save?

Something weird happened between m3/m4/m5 betas... previously it was possible to load up a save from beta (m3) with the engine of the latest official patch/official ongoing PBEM installation.
Now when you try to load a save under beta in latest official (it's v1.01.06i me thinks) you've got "save game failed to load" info. It's just a guess, but maybe this is why people have problems with Tracker and the latest betas... any way to fix this incompatibility?

Firstly, the saves from m4 onwards have an extra item saved. Earlier EXEs would not be able to read a m4+ save as it would not recognize the new saved item. However, saves from before m4 can be read by m4+ EXEs as a missing saved item does not cause an error reading the save.

Likewise for Tracker, new DLL is required in order to read the m4+ saves, otherwise you would get an error.
It should have been a case of just copying the new DLL from the beta2 directory to the Tracker install directory. If you had multiple installs, then each would need to have the copy done.
Like the new EXE, the new DLL can read older pre-m4 saves.

A major hassle is that Microsoft patched the 2005/8 C++ libraries to fix a security bug at the same time the new DLL came online. They did the same thing as well last year (at start of year IIRC) when the DLL got updated.
Thus the patch had to be applied as well in order to use the DLL.

BTW, the DLL is NOT used by the game EXE. The game EXE handles all the loading and saving. The DLL is only used read the save for externally to the game.




DOCUP -> RE: Patch 06 - Public Beta - Build 1108m7 updated 5 June (6/13/2011 8:30:12 PM)

Hi guys, need some help my computer crashed or something. I got most of my files back but AE was corrupted. Does anyone have the beta 1108m6. That is the one me and my PBEM opponent are using. Please help me

doc




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