RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids)

RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (Full Version)

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Schmart -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 12:32:34 AM)
Apologies for the thread hijack. Perhaps one of the moderators can split/move this discussion?

gingerbread -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 12:40:07 AM)
Fair enough, I admit that the problems for the Germans are of another magnitude. The problems for the Soviets are not insignificant, though. You, at least I, really want to maximize the no. of rifle sq. in your front units. With 2/3rds of your men tied up in support sq., the 100k or so men in the re-con:ed units around turn 12 is really irritating. There is always the option to disband, but why then have them reconstitute at all.

ComradeP -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 11:47:39 AM)
quote: Really? Perhaps there's a bug then? I'm playing a game currently as the Russians, and (free) re-built units are appearing at around 85% TOE for Rifle Divisions, and 30% (Tank) TOE for Tank Brigades (manpower elements within the units are usually at or near 100%). Both arrive in refit mode, and with morale in the mid-low 30s. Normal reinforcement units appear with anything from 15-100% TOE, in ready or depleted status and with morale in the low-mid 40s. A handfull arrive with 100% and 50 or 60 morale. They arrive in refit mode, but are not frozen in that state or frozen to begin with, that's the primary difference between reconstituted Soviet and German units.

Schmart -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 5:43:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ComradeP They arrive in refit mode, but are not frozen in that state or frozen to begin with.. Still a contradiction to what the manual states/implies about arriving as unready shells. I've started a thread in the tech support section, so no more hijacking of this AAR!

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 6:33:35 PM)
Turn 167. August 24 1944. Army group South Ukraine lurches from one crisis to the next. A major Soviet breakthrough is shattered by counteratacks, but next turn will probably bring worse... My units are mostly reduced to ant status. [image]local://upfiles/37384/0EBB55E3BFF9437387E9ED5F336E1807.jpg[/image]

Flaviusx -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 6:44:03 PM)
Raid AGN and maybe even AGC for fresh units. He's trying to force a decision in the south (I would do the same.) He looks pretty far along doing this in fact. If you can somehow prevent Romania surrendering before mud count yourself lucky. AGS is in terrible shape, he's grinding you to powder.

krupp_88mm -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/15/2011 9:22:07 PM)
yeah you gotta keep this in context, historically at this time the Russians are already taking warsaw, and romania is soon to be overrun completely before winter, if you can jsut hold him for a few more weeks you should be in the clear, you may have to loose a few units or even an army to do it, but delaying him till mud should pay off and give you a chance to dig in again, i agree with flav time to start pulling men off the norther line and start building yourself a reserve with the shorter line, i mean do you think you will hold lenningrad forever? lol maybe you can try to hang onto leningrad till 1945 but what good will that do you

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/16/2011 6:30:30 PM)
Yes, but I estimate a defense of the Dvina is going to cost me as many troops as defending where they are right now, so I don't see the gain. Besides, there is not much troops to get up north. Should I send another five CV1 infantry divisions to the South, how would that help?

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/16/2011 6:32:51 PM)
Turn 168. August 31 1944. The Soviets appear chastised by the beating their spearhead took last turn. Not too much happening, compared to recent turns. My counterattacking panzers are not even surrounded! I will rout out the remnants of the Soviet armored thrust and then take the opportunity to withdraw to the next river line. [image]local://upfiles/37384/C415799690134F7CB3D7135A49DDF34B.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/16/2011 6:35:25 PM)
In the centre, the Soviets are across the Dner at the swamps, but they can have that if they want. Otherwise, the river line is holding in the main, even if there are a few bridgeheads here and there. Map before German moves. [image]local://upfiles/37384/80394F9FE0914146895ADBB5B8DEAA61.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 7:01:23 AM)
Turn 169. September 7 1944. A major Soviet offensive hits Army Group North. I must admit that came as a complete surprise. The attack smashes the weak units of 18th and 16th armies and makes good progress. Withdrawal is the only option. [image]local://upfiles/37384/4E92D028469C4E9FB010046A74CD816F.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 7:02:53 AM)
In the South, Army Group South Ukraine is fighting a delaying action, withdrawing behind the next river line. Map after Axis moves. [image]local://upfiles/37384/6E19F09B58F847769B898E1ABC639F92.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 7:06:39 AM)
And production. The manpower pool is swelling. It seems it increases by about 15000 men each turn. [image]local://upfiles/37384/162468A13927445CB0CC37BECF1694D3.jpg[/image]

gingerbread -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 12:11:46 PM)
You are producing 54 500 ARM(German, East Front) per turn and that should suffice to equip the 15k manpower if all were made into rifle(foot). Obviously, this is not what is happening. Another point of interest is that you are still getting 30% production to East Front for the Italians, but their troops are gone by now, or? The '44 scenario starts with 0% for Italy.

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 6:04:30 PM)
Turn 170. September 14 1944. The Soviet spearhead in the north is stopped just short of the Volchov by a sprirted counterattack by the Finnish armored division. [image]local://upfiles/37384/2C6ED40A0D754901A3F45DF9BB3DE52A.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 6:05:18 PM)
On the landbridge, the positions are holding - so far... [image]local://upfiles/37384/DB828110A6A547D78FE6C3FEBF1D878D.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 6:06:35 PM)
And an overview of the southern part of the front, with areas of Soviet main effort indicated. [image]local://upfiles/37384/EAF6F26C05E646AA82D9E0C396DAC8CB.jpg[/image]

Flaviusx -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 6:08:53 PM)
Am very surprised how weak the AGN stuff is. I had thought in a previously quiet area like this they'd be in better shape. It appears your infantry is played out everywhere. That being said, you ought to welcome any diversion of Soviet offensive forces and particularly mobile units up north. You have all the space in the world to play with up there. I personally would be staking everything on a Ukraine push and just bypass all that stuff up north. If he had those fresh tank corps down south, he wouldn't need to pause while the ones you've battered recuperate.

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 6:13:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Flaviusx Am very surprised how weak the AGN stuff is. I had thought in a previously quiet area like this they'd be in better shape. It appears your infantry is played out everywhere. They looked pretty decent as long as the front was immobile, but once they were out of their fortifications things started to crumble. I guess they were something of a paper tiger. Actually I am glad the Soviets didn't start pushing there earlier. I have been railing out some of the best infantry divisions from there though, one unit here and there over several months, and putting weakened units in instead, so that explains part of it but not all.

IdahoNYer -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/17/2011 10:38:53 PM)
By 1944, nothing outside of a level 3 fortification has a chance to hold. It just a question of how many casualties the Soviets will incur in taking the hex. Once a fortified line is forces to be abandoned, there's little chance of holding back the tide. Terrain helps, using rivers and swamps to establish fallback lines slow the Soviets down. The biggest challenge is finding the manpower to establish fortified lines in the rear areas - at the cost of replacements going to the burnt out shells of infantry formations. Tarhunnas - how are your infantry experience/morale factors holding up? Mine are pathetic......shame when Hungarian and even Rumanian infantry counterparts have better CVs than the once mighty Wehrmacht!

Baelfiin -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 4:24:29 AM)
Those '44 ToE's are not that strong also

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 4:25:02 PM)
Turn 171. September 21 1944. Mighty waves of Soviet attackers hit Army Group Center and South. The front in the Ukraine is crumbling. As some small consolation, the Soviet northern offensive seems to have stalled at the Volchov. [image]local://upfiles/37384/968D34A923E745C897096A348C399FA8.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 4:33:34 PM)
In Northern Ukraine, an awkward breakthrough leaves several German divisions temporarily out of supply. My weak front of mainly CV1 units makes these things more and more frequent, and I no longer have the panzer reserves to counterattack. [image]local://upfiles/37384/66B4AABC138C4603A5CB8DFADD9AADA0.jpg[/image]

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 6:20:52 PM)
Situation stabilised... temporarily at least, by counterattacks. Map after Axis moves. [image]local://upfiles/37384/273D1A29BA4F40CBB9DF370C13E3BE5C.jpg[/image]

Flaviusx -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 6:24:03 PM)
You've got what, 3 more turns till mud? Hang in there, the clock is ticking. I don't think he can cross the Dnestr in time. It's gonna get ugly when the rivers freeze over though.

ComradeP -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 6:52:09 PM)
Tarhunnas, could you post a losses and OOB screenshot? Unless he can race to Berlin, this looks like it will be a draw. You get some serious reinforcements early in 1945 that should allow you to at least hold Berlin, if he gets close.

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 7:08:56 PM)
Losses and OOB Turn 171. [image]local://upfiles/37384/03F054EAD6D94C60B6E2617A92E0B7B1.jpg[/image]

ComradeP -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 7:21:09 PM)
Wow, those are some ugly losses compared to turn 158. German OOB strength decreased by 500.000, almost 30.000(!) trucks lost in combat in those 13 turns. At least Soviet strength only increased slightly. Their AFV totals actually went down (as did yours, by a spectacular drop of ~1200).

Tarhunnas -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/18/2011 10:10:14 PM)
Weakness begets weakness... My weak units leads to units surrounded which makes me weaker still.... There seems to be a tipping point.

Peltonx -> RE: 1.04 The Wolf and the Bear (no Gids) (12/19/2011 1:57:24 AM)
2.3 million is the breaking point. The mud will slow him then the flood gates open. With 54 turns left its not looking good, I dought you get a draw even. Once he pockets a few units all your replasements get dumped into usless units. That really needs to get fixed at some point. The problem late in war is its so easy for the Red machine to break German army. Once broken you are helpless, because you cant recover. The logistics is a really screwed up part of the game for both sides. Your one chance is to run back around berlin and pack in your none ant units. The same issue will happen in all the 1.05 games as is happening in yours. You have done far far better then historical in all areas yet the red machine is still going to win. Chances are under 1.05 he would have never recovered and you would have won out right in 43. Good luck.

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