RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (Full Version)

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mmarquo -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/30/2011 7:07:20 PM)

"c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level."


These statements from "V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011 · New Features and Rule Changes" seem to indicate that a level 3 fort can't grow to a level 4 fort, but can get to level 3 + 10%, not level 4 + 10%.

Am I mistaken?



JAMiAM -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/30/2011 7:12:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

"c. Requirement to build up to Fort Level 3 - Must be adjacent to an enemy hex, be an urban or city hex, or be in or adjacent to a fort unit. Once the level 3 is reached, the condition does not have to continue to be met to keep the level 3 fort.
d. Fort levels that have reached their maximum fort level for the hex may continue to build up to 10% towards the next fort level."


These statements from "V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011 · New Features and Rule Changes" seem to indicate that a level 3 fort can't grow to a level 4 fort, but can get to level 3 + 10%, not level 4 + 10%.

Am I mistaken?

You are not mistaken, but the description in the readme isn't quite the way it's working in the game. Whether it's WADesigned, or not, it's not exactly WADescribed...[;)]



Peltonx -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/30/2011 9:13:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: JAMiAM

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

Why don't you disband the fort unit when they are going to be on the frontline? The combat unit in the fortified hex still receives the fort level bonus and you don't lose the men/material associated with the fort unit?

Marquo

Once a hex has gone beyond level 3, 10%, that is 11+%, it will continue to grow to level 4, 10%, even without a fort in the hex. Likewise, for the adjacent hex benefit, and the initial breaking of the level 2 limit, as long as the hexes are at least level 2, 11%, they will go up to level 3, 10%.

If the TOEs of the forts is kept to 50%, then the loss of them is fairly inconsequential. Especially, if you've taken them off refit after their first turn of sucking replacements. Then, it's a question of how threatened the hexes are versus the cost of 1 AP to disband, and possibly 4 more AP to rebuild another at some point. In fluid situations, obviously, the threat to them is higher, but once a line settles in, it may may sense to accept a bit more risk in them on, or near, the frontlines.


Nice bit of info.

So once a level 3 is to 11%+ you can remove the fort and it will still grow to 4 as long as you have a unit in hex?




Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/30/2011 9:31:42 PM)

T31: 1/15/42-BLIZZARD

My optimism of the last turn has abated somewhat; this turn, I am clearly pressed in some places. I think the Russians have moved more men up front, and they are stronger since the start of Blizzard, for sure!

East of Kursk, I have a particular danger point, where some infantry is threatened on the flanks, and I can't retreat fast enough to safety. This could be a serious problem, resulting in losing a unit or two.

The Russians are really focusing on the center of the line from Rhzev down to the Donbas.

North of that, in the Valdai Hills, he has seemingly halted. Same in the Donbas, and in the Crimean exit; no attacks, nothing.

The next couple turns figure to be tough, then I can start thinking about SNOW.

I may eat my words from the last post.....

Attack Counter:

This turn, it was 11-4. That's more total attacks than last turn, I think there are more Russians around suddenly. I wonder if B-G was savings some reserves, and just committed them.

TOTAL so far: 107-29.

Fort Zones:

I have all FORT ZONES set to 50% TOE; most have been shedding men all winter. At this point, though, most of them are picked-up; while losing one isn't the end of the world with only 800 guys left, I still think it's worth the AP to pick it up and save the men and equipment. Later in 1944, I will probably have more extra APs than I will men........

HIWIS:

My OOB has dropped 200K since the start of Blizzard, but I would be really screwed without the Hiwis. The attacking hasn't been bad, but attrition of course is eating my infantry. I have over 130,000 Hiwis now on the map.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/1D17D39C752449B8A3612AF72E17B6C0.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/30/2011 9:54:17 PM)

Does he not get 200,000 in reinforsesments during December?

Your losses are about normal.

I been through a bunch of blizzards and all fell between 400,000 and 600,000. Not sure how you finish, but you seem to be doing a little better then average so far.

When can you put units in static mode?

Pelton



Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 1:19:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

Does he not get 200,000 in reinforsesments during December?

Your losses are about normal.

I been through a bunch of blizzards and all fell between 400,000 and 600,000. Not sure how you finish, but you seem to be doing a little better then average so far.

When can you put units in static mode?

Pelton


I think I'm doing OK; the attacks have not been extremely high, and I have kept alot of units "Indoors" all Winter, including 4 Infantry Divisions and about 10 Mobile Divisions, aside from Garrisons and units rotated.

RE: STATIC, I can do it now, and I thought about starting.

Here is a question: Does that 50% Attrition reduction also apply to the BLIZZARD ATTRITION?

If it does, that's an extra incentive to get units into STATIC. I think I can safely Static-ize all my units in the Valdai Hills, plus the units in the Crimea. That's 15 divisions or so.

RE: NUMBERS: The Russians get 200K reinforcements in NOVEMBER, and another 50K or so in December; so most of that growth is organic



Peltonx -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 1:52:23 AM)

I am not sure to tell you the truth, if it applys during blizzard or not. Its would be tricky during blizzard for sure. It works great once snow flys, it help bring back German army quickly.

I really need to get better at keeping a bunch of high moral infantry inside during winter, myself. I am thinking 12 90+ moral infantry would be better then the mech for 42.

I think you beable to take out a hole 3 wide 2 deep before even using tanks. I am thinking thats how Katza does it so easly during 42. You have 3 strong infantry corps, add in the best Leaders, 1 poineer per division, 1 stug and a bunch of atrillary at corps and army HQ's.

The poineers will cut the CV's in half, because of forts and there is not a hex during 42 they could not take out.

I have had trouble in the past doing this, but will the big gains land wize I think I got a system ironed out so i can do it. Just need to get my games vs TDV and M60 into blizzard to test it out following spring.

4 infantry divisions is proabaly enough to take out the sound row.

Static during 42 will be huge also. Yoou can keep loses very low along 75% of the front and save 10k a turn to add to the offensive.
Pelton



Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 2:16:51 AM)

That is not a bad idea for a strike force, though it's too late in my game. After the 4 Divisions at 90+ Morale, there is a huge drop-off; the next highest is 80. Too late.

The Mountain Divisions are in good shape, with 80+ Morale; they can form another "Strike Corps", though they will need Stugs and Pioneers, because the Mountain Divisions lack some Heavy Weapons

The Wehrmacht receives quite a few "300 Series" divisions that are 70 or 75 Morale. Not tremendous, but with select support can maybe get the job done.

I would still prioritize MOBILE units for shelter during Blizzard



mmarquo -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 2:36:59 AM)

V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011: "(6) New Rule - Units may not enter static mode in 1941."

If the rules are WAD, then Axis units can't go static until Jan 1942....

Marquo



Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 3:23:25 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Marquo

V1.05.18 – September 6, 2011: "(6) New Rule - Units may not enter static mode in 1941."

If the rules are WAD, then Axis units can't go static until Jan 1942....

Marquo


Right, but it's Turn 31, which is January of 1942. I have the option of putting into STATIC

The question is: Does that actually cut the BLIZZARD attrition in half?




Joel Billings -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 7:00:05 PM)

I doubt it cuts blizzard attrition. That was not the intention.



Peltonx -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 8:35:27 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

I doubt it cuts blizzard attrition. That was not the intention.


Sorry to tell you bro, but there have been allot of things that were not intended to happen and have.

I would say it will cut your atrition by more the 1/2 not that I have done it :), but but but the risk is huge because of 1 MP
and cost in AP's

Its easy to test these rules play yourself in a short game during blizzard first two turn check losses then put units in static mode.

HMM what are results?



Joel Billings -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (10/31/2011 8:40:22 PM)

Well they're two different routines, so it would take an intent by the programmer to have it apply to both. Since that was not part of the discussion that led to the rule change, I'd be surprised if it does impact both. However, as stated, there's plenty that happens that is unexpected so I can't say for sure.



Ketza -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/1/2011 1:07:55 AM)

Not to steal away the thread but is this type of attrition management by the Axis intended? It is a far cry from before because of my heavy use of static mode.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/E591AF3DFB2A4ABD8968B05050DFF68B.jpg[/image]



JAMiAM -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/1/2011 2:38:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Not to steal away the thread but is this type of attrition management by the Axis intended? It is a far cry from before because of my heavy use of static mode.

Attrition was dialed down in the last patch. The exact long term effects of this are unknown, but should help to keep the German army from fading away during the mid-late war years simply from frontline attrition. It will now be up to the Soviet player to actually put the hurt on the Axis.

The Soviets will benefit from this, as well, so use those 'extra' men and go kill some Huns!



Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/2/2011 6:43:59 PM)

RE: Static, there is no reason the Russians can't use Static. Sure in 1942 it's touch and go, but there will be quiet sectors even in 1942. In 1943, the Russians should be using STATIC wholesale, and experiencing a similar decline in Attrition.

JAM is right; that will mean more fighting. Which is a good thing!


T-32: 1/22/42 Blizzard

Still not out of the woods. As my CVs are increasing, I am also getting kicked-out of my last trenches, and also being forced to defend some ground to protect certain units. Overall, I am growing concerned, but at the same time, February is right around the corner, and with it some relief.

I am beginning to move my "Winter Reserves" forward. This is about 10 Mobile and 4 Infantry Divisions that sat the Blizzard out. Additionally, I am pulling 3-4 more Infantry that still have 80+ morale, and getting them rested, along with a couple more Mobile units. It hurts to weaken the front just now, but I am plugging the gap somewhat with some new divisions.

During February, the Wehrmacht gets ALOT of reinforcements; 15 divisions in Feb/Mar, including 2 Panzer. This will be a great help, particularly in Tank Strength. At the moment, we sit about 2,000 tanks.

Rzhev:

I abandoned Rzhev, rather than fight for it and risk encirclement. The big problem is that the terrain to the south and west is all clear, which makes fighting for it complicated.

Otherwise, we are falling back. Barring a complete collapse, I will finish Blizzard holding Vyazma, and a hex or two in front of that. Still, that's alot of ground I gave up in Blizzard, considering I started occupying Torzhok (barely....)

4th Army Sector:

4th Army still getting major pressure. Kaluga at the northern end will be abandoned next turn. He is within 2 hexes of Orel, but I will not hold it this Blizzard. I hope to take it back, though, in Snow, and I have a Panzer Corps in OREL that is fat, happy, and hasn't moved all Blizzard.....

I should hold Kursk, but I am giving up piles of open ground in front of it.

17th Army and the Donbas:

This sector was relatively quiet for a few turns, but suddenly there is a major Soviet push north of the Donbas, toward Izyum. I shifted a Moutnain Division up there, as 17th Army is a little strained from being outside all winter. Further south, I hold in front of the Donbas, but rather than leave a bulge I plan to pull back shortly.

I should be able to hold the Donbas past Blizzard



[image]local://upfiles/6931/AFCA7EE8637546719CC59AE2FB165883.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/4/2011 10:18:10 PM)

T33: 1/29/42

Overall, we are being pressed in a couple areas, though we can finally see the light at the end of the tunnell. One more turn of January CVs, then we switch over to February, where we get another bump in the right direction.

I am beginning to move my Sturm Infantry forward, plus my reserve Panzers, for a backhand blow. I really want to conserve some strength for this, as I hope he is strung out and vulnerable from fighting all winter.

I haven't selected the exact spot yet, but the area around OREL is tempting, as well as the DONBAS. I'll have to settle on one or the other pretty soon. I want to concentrate in one spot, and hopefully make a couple pockets.

Attack Counter:

This turn: 15-5
TOTAL: 130-28 for the Blizzard; approx. 16 succesful attacks per turn.
It could be alot worse than that.

MOSCOW:

Around Moscow, he has taken Rhzev, which I abandoned last turn. B-G seems to be stopping west of Rhzev, but not sure. The lines in front of Moscow are still under pressure. I barely hold Kaluga, though I expect to give it up.

4th Army Sector:

4th Army is being pressed still. von Kluge had been sacked, and replaced by the AI with Kuntzen, who kind of blows. I sacked Kuntzen this turn, and promoted Gothard Heinrici, who is a solid Army commander.

I was forced to counterattack this turn, as B-G put the squeeze on some of my infantry, but I was successful and extricated everyone.

Donbas:

See the shot below; this was a very strong move on B-Gs part, saved only by the ROMANIANS. Yes, the Germans crumbled, and Romanians saved the day!

To be fair, the German units have been exposed all Winter, and the Romanians are FRESH.



[image]local://upfiles/6931/F342453B5123451481B5BEAF1B4E21BB.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/6/2011 1:56:52 PM)

How large is BG army and how many did you kill by dec 1st?

Pelton



Peltonx -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/6/2011 2:04:04 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ketza

Not to steal away the thread but is this type of attrition management by the Axis intended? It is a far cry from before because of my heavy use of static mode.

[image]local://upfiles/23687/E591AF3DFB2A4ABD8968B05050DFF68B.jpg[/image]


Its can help, but only if your sure your not going to get pushed. If you had a good 42 you will be able to use static during 43.

Its not a game changer, once late 43 rolls around if your not doing to good then none of your units will be in static mode. If you have most of the front in static and the reds get a break through your going to get pocketed somewheres and that be the death of you.

It is a plus, but can be a huge minus if not managed just right. Vs Kamil he was not attacking an I had 100% of front in static. Once he started pushing hard in early 43 I had to use up my 500 pts to get 2/3 of front out of static.

Its a tool, but not a game changer unless you had a good 42 and a solid 43.
If game was even then it will just buy you a little time.



Q-Ball -> RE: Death Ride to Russia: Q-Ball (Axis) v Bletchley Geek (Sov). 1.05 beta (11/6/2011 8:16:16 PM)

T-34: 2/5/42

The first turn of February sees a noticeable drop-off in Soviet Attacks. And he was attacking in JANUARY last turn, but still only had 6 attacks. I think Bletchley Geek is winding things down, and digging a few trenches before the Snow.

A full-scale assault on Kaluga took the city; a surprise, considering I had a Mobile unit well-dug in there. Oh well, kudos to B-G. I expected to lose Kaluga, and it's his.

The only other attacks are around OREL. He is pressing around the City, which I expect to lose, but I am trying to run-out the clock on Blizzard and keep his attention there.

I launched 2 counterattacks around OREL; they pushed the Soviets back. Casualties were a bit high for me, but I purposely used alot of units in order to re-build morale, and see how this dynamic can work for me in 1942. I had 3 Infantry Divisions participate, and all of them gained 1-2 morale points. I will have to remember that.

Surprisingly, the drive on Stalino suddenly halted. I was preparing to fall back on the Donbas cities, and my final line of trenches, but B-G halted. Same around Kharkov, where I retreated to the final Winter defense line, but B-G seems OK with a halt.

Given the fact that the Russians appear to be halting, I am instituting a "Hold Fast" order, and will see what develops next turn. If there are still no attacks, I think it's over, other than more Winter attrition.

Attack Counter:
This turn: 4-2
Total: 134-30

That seems very low!

LOSSES:

The difference between my game vs. Tarhunnas and this one is very stark in the area of winter losses. In that game, we each lost over 1 mil men in Blizzard. This game, it's about HALF that, and probably much of that is attrition.

There just hasn't been tons of fighting. B-G is a very good player, so he may have something up his sleeve, but I would have pushed it harder this winter. I did limit the attacks with all my withdrawls, but I think he is passing on opportunities to slug it out with the Germans. I would be taking that option and trying to max-out my Guards, but that's a personal choice.

As a consequence of the lack of fighting, there are a few impacts on the Summer.

First, the Red Army will be huge. It's already 5.6 mil, and should easily top 6 mil by the start of summer. On the flip side, though, I have only identified 5 Guards Rifle Units. Granted some die rolls may come in and "flip" a few more, but that's a low figure so far. By the end of Winter vs. Tarhunnas, I capped-out at approx. 120 Guards Rifle Divisions, and something like 12 or 14 Guards Cav Corps. No comparison.

The Wehrmacht is in OK shape; my morale isn't bad due to lack of attacks/withdrawls, it's all due to attrition. My losses could be worse. I have about 15 decent divisions right now, and if I add the 12-odd I get before the heat of the summer, I should have 30 more or less 1941-quality divisions as my schwerpunkt.

Next turn, I will start to look at locations for summer offensive, and plan accordingly. There is alot to do as Germany, because you have to move whole Armies around to the right location. One big choice will be whether to drive on Moscow. Moscow is the most tempting target, but one that figures to be slow-going, and is exposed to counterattack. We'll have to decide on that vs. a Southern Campaign.

Numbers and Morale:

Without many changes at the front, I am posting numbers this turn.

MORALE has been a big topic on the boards lately, so I am posting the full Wehrmacht OOB for Infantry, and it's corresponding morale. The average is around 67 or 68 at the moment. The two lowest divisions are the two that were destroyed in the Crimea.

The lowest normal division is 15th Infantry; this division started summer at 70, but has been blasted backwards toward the Valdai Hills, and was very nearly destroyed (surrounded on 5 sides). It's Morale is 55, and it will finish Winter at 52, unless I get a die roll in there. That will be the lowest.

Actually the lowest overall is 12th Panzer, or should I say 12th "ERSATZ" Panzer, which is a repalcement formation that's been sitting outside all winter. It's morale is 43! This unit will be AGN Armored Reserve probably for all of 1942.

[image]local://upfiles/6931/818BE11C395249EEBA82C553110A0AC7.jpg[/image]



Q-Ball -> OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/6/2011 8:51:03 PM)

Location: Fuhrerhauptquartier Wehrwolf, Vinnitsa, Ukraine

OKH Planning Conference for 1942 Summer Offensive: Fall Turkis (Case Turquoise)

Gentlemen!

A long winter campaign is nearly behind us, and it is time to start our planning for the Summer 1942 Campaign: Fall Turkis.

Our primary objective is the destruction of the Soviet Army. We plan to accomplish this by:

1. The encirclement and destruction of units, and
2. The taking of major population centers, to limit Red Army recruitment

We do not anticipate repeating the success of our summer campaign in terms of taking industry, where 52 Bolshevik Armament factories fell into our hands. The wily Reds are too alert to this now, and will simply move whatever is threatened. Should we threaten Stalingrad there is alot of industry there still, but we would expect to not capture that; only disrupt the production.

So, the primary objective is to destroy Reds, and Soviet Manpower. Where best to accomplish this?

I will post some maps as Winter closes, but generally we hold a line: Kaluga, Orel, Kursk, Kharkov, Donbas. We figure to lose OREL, and we will finish about 3-5 hexes in front of Kursk, Kharkov, and the Donbas.

What do you think?

Some possibilities:

MOSCOW
Pros: Lots of Manpower in Moscow. Should be holdable for awhile.
Cons: Tough terrain; lots of light woods and rivers. Lots of forts. Figures to be a grind.
Distance: We are about 6 hexes from Moscow at the nearest point; a bit far for a slugging match.

OREL/TULA:
Pros: Open terrain, can use thrust to threaten Moscow from south if things go very well
Cons: We have already taken Orel and Tula, so they are a bit burned out as it is.

TAMBOV/LIPETSK/VORONEZH:
Pros: All are untouched cities, so we can torch alot of population there. Terrain is OK
Cons: Would create a bulge. Some light woods and good rivers make it less than perfect from a terrain standpoint.

BOGUCHAR/STALINGRAD:
Pros: Other than the Don River, it's wide open terrain. Fun on the steppe!
Cons: Short of Stalingrad, there is virtually nothing. This would have to be about unit destruction.

ROSTOV/SOUTH:
Pros: Rostov is a great target; lower Don s very defensible
Cons: Getting across the Don figures to be tough. You pretty much have to cross in the few hexes between Rostov and the junction with the Donets

We have to assume that any major attack will be greeted by hordes of units. For this reason, we may attack in a couple areas. Maybe we can at least force him to move units all over, and spend APs.

Anyway, your thoughts please!



Encircled -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/6/2011 9:14:49 PM)

Based on my limited experience of German ply, it would be essential to try and hide the true axis of your attack for as long as possible.

Not easy, but its probably going to be essential to achieve operational surprise



Jajusha -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/6/2011 10:16:09 PM)

I'm also having phenomenal air results in the blizzard with all the bombers parked in Berlin, and all fighters in the front. From 1:25 to 1:40 in loss ratio, with my fighter wings sitting at 90+ moral (and the bomber pool filling up for 42)



TulliusDetritus -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/6/2011 10:21:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Anyway, your thoughts please!


I have no idea [:)] I guess what you need to know is what will cripple the most the Soviets AND what will help you the most. Moscow 3 city hexes have a lot of manpower (90), but what's that? The 10% of Soviet Union manpower? It would not cripple them. The destrucion of Red Army units might do that (Larry's AARs are instructive here). He would be facing a dilemma: rebuild these lost hordes therefore ignore an upgrade of the Red Army (absolutely required if he wants to get to Berlin). Or forget them and upgrade what's left. Maybe not enough strong to invade the Reich?

Others might also say "advance eastwards". This would make sure Soviet HQs are not advancing their cocktail cabinets towards Berlin [:D] Au contraire. This we can see in Tarhunnas' game vs Gids. The latter might not even get to the Reich itself.

Choices, choices... good luck [8D]



Q-Ball -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/6/2011 10:48:13 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jajusha
I'm also having phenomenal air results in the blizzard with all the bombers parked in Berlin, and all fighters in the front. From 1:25 to 1:40 in loss ratio, with my fighter wings sitting at 90+ moral (and the bomber pool filling up for 42)


I wonder if it's the way to go. I did it because my bombers were so decimiated from the "air command bug" that was quashed (and maybe my management too. Plus, I think B-G really knows what he is doing with airpower).

But the Me-109s are eating the VVS for lunch; every Fighter unit is 95+ Morale, and several are 90+ Experience.

BTW, I have also NOT run any recon flights this Blizzard. I don't see the point in particular, it gets obvious fast where the Russians are really pushing. It's where the Shock Armies are. As a result of the lack fo RECON flights, those units are also in good shape.

My bomber units are all 100% full of planes, with more in the pool. Morale in every unit is 80+. We are ready for action......

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
Anyway, your thoughts please!


I have no idea [:)] I guess what you need to know is what will cripple the most the Soviets AND what will help you the most. Moscow 3 city hexes have a lot of manpower (90), but what's that? The 10% of Soviet Union manpower? It would not cripple them. The destrucion of Red Army units might do that (Larry's AARs are instructive here). He would be facing a dilemma: rebuild these lost hordes therefore ignore an upgrade of the Red Army (absolutely required if he wants to get to Berlin). Or forget them and upgrade what's left. Maybe not enough strong to invade the Reich?

Others might also say "advance eastwards". This would make sure Soviet HQs are not advancing their cocktail cabinets towards Berlin [:D] Au contraire. This we can see in Tarhunnas' game vs Gids. The latter might not even get to the Reich itself.

Choices, choices... good luck [8D]


I am thinking the same thing on Moscow: Important, but not decisive. And, it figures to be a huge grind, more than likely to result in just lots of my tanks burnt, and my Landsers in poor condition. No, I think I'm taking a pass on Moscow.

I may try an attack around Rhzev, for the sole purpose of confusing the Russians and drawing off reinforcements. Not sure.

I do agree that it is important to decieve. I have a few ideas here, but it's tough to conceal a massive Panzer buildup.



Peltonx -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/8/2011 5:33:40 AM)

Having played 6 42s so far I would say if you dont attack during the snow then every single clear turn your in big trouble.

The red army by June will easly be 7+ million, because of hill billy tactics used by russians now.

The only times I had a good 42 was because I kept nailing the forts every chance I had so once summer rolled around it did not take more then 2 turns to get past fort belt.

Before 1.05 vs forts level 3 and 4 the ratio was 2.5 to 1 and not after 1.05 vs forts level 2 and 3 its for me atleast 1.5 to 1 ration. which makes attacking during 42 not really worth it because withen 3 to 4 turns your army is spent.

This static 42 could be changed IF national moral worked for Germans as it does for Russians. Also the ratio change if confermed was a really stupid idea.

Attack attack attack as soon as you can or you be a punching bag for 175 turns.

Pelton



Klydon -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/8/2011 1:47:25 PM)

I agree with you Q-Ball on the number of attacks being way too low. He does not have guards formations to make the Germans work harder during 1942 and it is going to cost him I think. (How much remains to be seen).

I think Pelton is more or less correct. With a big army like that, you can't let him dig in. Time is on the Russian side. I don't know that you have geographical targets in 1942, but rather it is the destruction of the Red Army and you don't really care where. The big thing imo is that you are going to have to do sort of like what the Germans did early in the 1942 campaign with phased offensives. I think you go with short small offensives looking to cut up the Russian lines in smallish pockets. Get him using his points to build new units and strain his armaments in trying to fill them up. Don't chase him all over the map. If he retreats in a given sector, attack in another and kill some more units while casually moving up as best as you can.

I also think you look for a section of the line to put in static for at least a bit (probably up north) to help cut down on your attrition, although you could sort of use this as a trap to perhaps lull the Russian into doing the same thing across from you only to have fresh forces show up and take advantage of the situation.

Great AAR by both players and looking forward to what happens in 1942.



veji1 -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/8/2011 2:46:34 PM)

I am not an expert at all, but it looks to me that the best strategy would be that of the nibble : With overwehlming force, aim for a voluntarily small but watertight encirclement that allows to destroy 3 to 5 hexes worth of units. Such an encirclement shold certainly be the objective of the snow turns... Rinse and repeat that during the summer, and even with a pretty stable front line, of which a significant part could go static, the german player should be able to check the growth of the Red Army. in 42 500 000 soldiers encircled in one go is unlickely, but several 100 000 to 150 000 should be easily and methodically achieved, especially with some high quality infantry to breach the front.



Mike Solli -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/10/2011 3:19:03 AM)

Hi Q-Ball! Long time no see. Anyway, I've been reading your wonderful AAR and it just stopped. Get going! I want to see what happens! [:D]

Anyway, from my non-existent experience, I'd recommend you kill units. I'd go the Stalingrad route, but just to encircle and capture troops, not to capture Stalingrad. We all know how well that worked out historically. [:-]

If you can eliminate a significant number of units, you will slow or potentially stop his counterattack in 43-44 long enough to win the game.



Q-Ball -> RE: OKH Planning Conference: Fall Turkis (11/10/2011 7:48:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Hi Q-Ball! Long time no see. Anyway, I've been reading your wonderful AAR and it just stopped. Get going! I want to see what happens! [:D]

Anyway, from my non-existent experience, I'd recommend you kill units. I'd go the Stalingrad route, but just to encircle and capture troops, not to capture Stalingrad. We all know how well that worked out historically. [:-]

If you can eliminate a significant number of units, you will slow or potentially stop his counterattack in 43-44 long enough to win the game.


Wow, Old WITP-AE'er! How's it going, Major? I agree the attack is coming in the SOUTH. I haven't settled yet on Voronezh/Tambov, or a thrust toward Boguchar/Rostov, but I am leaning toward the latter. That will stretch the line out, but I can always use the Axis Allies to protect the flanks. What's the worst that can happen?

T35: 2/12/42

This game has gone a bit slow this week, due to B-G's real life business. It's still very much going.

This turn, the Soviets launched only a few attacks around Orel. The Winter Offensive is pretty much done, other than OREL. He made no progress at all, so I may actually have a chance at holding the town. I may as well, since being outside still costs morale.

I will post more of an update next turn.

OKH Conference; Vinnitsa, Ukriane:

Gentlemen! As I mentioned, we are planning for an offensive in Army Group South's Sector. This will come as no surprise at all to the Russians, but offers the best chance of bagging a number of units. We are going to attempt to decieve the Russian, however, on our ultimate objective until the attacks begin, by using "dummy" formations at certain spots.

We still have a couple choices of direction: Either North of Voronezh (where there are the most un-sacked population), or South of there (the wide open spaces toward Boguchar, or Rostov and the steppes beyond).

I am leaning toward Rostov, and the Steppes; first, that will net me another Army Group HQ; second, that area is the most difficult to quickly rail reinforcements to. Decisions decisions.......

As a side note, I also need to decide what to do, if any, with the Crimea. I am dug-in on the Perekop and the exits; I could just stay there all of 1942 I am sure, or advance. I am inclined to stay-put, but I also hate having that there on my flank.

Wehrmacht Re-Org:

The Wehrmacht is undergoing a major re-org at the moment. I have been savings some APs for this, and now using them. Alot.

Before the Blizzard, I broke-up 18th Army and sent it's Corps in various directions. Now, I am re-establishing 18th Army on the line, and rationalizing structure.

Looking ahead, the Germans have more Infantry and Panzer divisions than they have command capacity for in 1942. As a result, I need to economize on a few things, and decide how to keep command overload to a minimum. Either some infantry will have to serve under foreign command, or German HQs are overloaded.

Here are the steps I am taking:

*I am putting 6-8 weak German Divisions under FINNISH command. This is for several reasons: The FINNS need relief; keeping them fully on the front is bad for morale, and because they can't go into STATIC, bad for losses, too. I am pulling much of the Finnish Army, and sending several depleted divisions up toward this quiet sector in the woods. The Finns do have good leadership, though, so I can transfer Germans there and keep the German HQs from being overburdened. So, everything north of the NO-MOVE line will be under Finnish Command (but be about 1/2 German).

*18th Army is being re-assembled from various pieces in 2nd Army sector around Rhzev. This was the cheapest way to re-deploy 18th Army in AGN, and free-up an army command for service in the South.

*2nd Army HQ, with 2 empty Corps HQ, is moving SOUTH, and will pick-up a new HQ unit, and about 12 new Infantry Divisions. It will be my main infantry offensive force. I need to move around some SUs to give it some muscle there.

*3rd Panzer will stay in front of Moscow, but lose most of it's Panzers. I am keeping only 1 Panzer Corps north of Tula, as a reserve, and it will have my weakest mobile units. 3rd Panzer will have 3 Infantry Corps, and be mostly an Infantry Army.

*Everything north of Kaluga is set to 60% MAX TOE, and once I have sorted-out Corps boundaries, will be STATIC.

*4th Panzer is moving SOUTH; it has spare capacity, and will pick-up a Panzer corps from 3rd Panzer.

*All NEW Infantry Divisions are sent SOUTH. They will take the place of depleted divisions that I am sending north to man Static sectors. In this way, 6th Army will be pretty "Fresh", which it isn't right now.

*In general, my 3 Panzer Armies will all now have 3-4 Panzer Corps, and a full complement of at least 12 Mobile Divisions, with probably Zero infantry.

*3rd and 4th Romanian are transferred to Army Group Antonescu, releiving some burden on AGS

*Most of the Luftwaffe are going to be committed to AGS. I am starting to deploy bombers, but I expect almost all to be in the South.

I plan to re-arrange some leaders once I have the units in place, but I think I am fairly set, aside from 2nd Army. The Panzer Formations already have excellent leaders, as I replaced many in the Summer.

Any other thoughts on Axis command?

Support Units:

Could use some feedback here. What do you guys think?

My "Defensive" Armies, I am going to strip them of Pioneers, Stugs, and Nebelwerfers, leaving Construction, Artillery, and Flak (I try to have at least 1 88mm equipped Flak Bn with every Corps; good for AT defense). I'll leave any Jagdpanzer units, as I don't have enough replacements to commit them all to heavy combat anyway.

I plan to load-up anything offensive with Nebelwerfers, Pioneers, and Stugs, with some Infantry getting Heavy Howitzers for Fort Busting.




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