quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Just to finish harping on about it, battleships RULE, carriers DROOL...

[image]local://upfiles/16369/9BED546D4BF44CB6858EE50C8A438B4D.jpg[/image]

And the victory was completed the following turn when the Haruna, badly beaten up in the fight off Port Moresby, took two torpedoes (courtesy of an S-boat) and went to the bottom of the Coral Sea. SUCK IT, TOJO!

I know, I know... It's an AI game, it doesn't count. But it totally does...

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'd like to tell you all how well Alex played at tryouts this weekend, and how proud we are of him. Unfortunately, he didn't get a callback for the usual reasons, and I'm pissed at myself for forgetting my rule and getting my hopes up as I watched him play, when I know better. [:@]

AA tryouts in a little over 3 weeks. [:(]

No chance of him playing?

Coach?

This was the top level of tryouts, Leo, AAA. Next, he'll try out for AA, then A, then B, if needed, until he makes a team or does not make any of them. He will play in a local, non-travel, "house" league next season if he doesn't make one of these teams.

The kids are beyond the point where I can offer them anything as a coach. I never played myself, so all the kids can teach and coach me. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

BTW, could post WWI 16" and 14" USN guns hurt Yamato's armor?

Was there some test about that (we all heard a lot about hypothetical Iowa vs. Yamato engagements) but Iowa had latest 16"/50 caliber Mark 7 guns whilst the Colorado class had oder 16"/50 caliber Mark 5 guns?

Nearly all of the heavy-calibre hits were scored at ranges of less than 15000 yards, well within Yamato's immunity zone. She was basically picked apart.

quote:


Immune Zone of "x" - "y" meters against the "z" inch gun:

The Immune Zone is defined as the range band, within which the armor of a ship is theoretically immune to penetration. In this example, at ranges of less than "X" meters, shells of "z" inches will have sufficient energy to penetrate the vertical armor plates, but will strike at too shallow an angle to penetrate the horizontal deck armor. At ranges greater than "y" meters, shells of "z" inches plunging at steep angles will have sufficient energy to penetrate horizontal deck plates, but will bounce off vertical plates. Within this zone, neither plates can be penetrated (again, theoretically).

quote:


Yamato stats:

Armor:
     Main Belt:          16.1"
     Armor Deck:          7.9"

18.1 INCH (460MM) GUN <14>

Designation:        Type 94
Shell Weight:
     AP:             3,218 lb
Range:
     AP:            45,276 yds at 45 deg
Muzzle Velocity:
     AP:             2,559 ft/sec
Armor Penetration: (AP)
      Range (meters)   Vertical (in)   Horizontal (in)

         5,000            30              0.9
        10,000            26.6            2
        20,000            19.4            4.3
        30,000            14.2            7.4
        35,000            12              10

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'd like to tell you all how well Alex played at tryouts this weekend, and how proud we are of him. Unfortunately, he didn't get a callback for the usual reasons, and I'm pissed at myself for forgetting my rule and getting my hopes up as I watched him play, when I know better. [:@]

AA tryouts in a little over 3 weeks. [:(]

No chance of him playing?

Coach?

This was the top level of tryouts, Leo, AAA. Next, he'll try out for AA, then A, then B, if needed, until he makes a team or does not make any of them. He will play in a local, non-travel, "house" league next season if he doesn't make one of these teams.

The kids are beyond the point where I can offer them anything as a coach. I never played myself, so all the kids can teach and coach me. [:D]

Best of luck Mike!

BTW, who decides if Alex has a change at tryouts? His previous performance or he gets to play in tryouts and then it is decided based on that performance and his performance in the past?



Leo "Apollo11"

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'd like to tell you all how well Alex played at tryouts this weekend, and how proud we are of him. Unfortunately, he didn't get a callback for the usual reasons, and I'm pissed at myself for forgetting my rule and getting my hopes up as I watched him play, when I know better. [:@]

AA tryouts in a little over 3 weeks. [:(]

No chance of him playing?

Coach?

This was the top level of tryouts, Leo, AAA. Next, he'll try out for AA, then A, then B, if needed, until he makes a team or does not make any of them. He will play in a local, non-travel, "house" league next season if he doesn't make one of these teams.

The kids are beyond the point where I can offer them anything as a coach. I never played myself, so all the kids can teach and coach me. [:D]

Best of luck Mike!

BTW, who decides if Alex has a change at tryouts? His previous performance or he gets to play in tryouts and then it is decided based on that performance and his performance in the past?



Leo "Apollo11"

Thanks, Leo! The tryouts are evaluated by the organization's goalie coach, team coaches, and other administrators. Earning a position or not is supposed to be based on his performance during the tryouts, but the evaluators (particularly the goalie coach) already know who is the best goalie based on previous performance, so have made up their mind before the tryouts even start.

We're all a little less angry today, and we've been through this a few times already in past years so we know we will get over it in time for Alex to go to the next level down tryouts and pretend he's actually being evaluated instead of just going through the motions. [:D]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Found nice page:

http://www.navweaps.com

[:)]


In it there is a penetration table for US 16"/45 (40.6 cm) Mark 5 (on USN Colorado BB):

http://www.navweaps.com/Weapons/WNUS_16-45_mk5.htm


Since Kristian said that very first hit destroyed one of the Yamato's turrets I am wondering is this is corrects since, at 25000 yards the most powerful gun US TF had has penetration of:

25,000 yards (22,860 m)

-> Side armour: 13.74" (349 mm)
-> Deck armour: 4.78" (121 mm)
-> Striking velocity: 1,522 fps (464 mps)
-> Angle of Fall: 23.55 degrees

Note:
This data is from "Battleships: United States Battleships 1935-1992" and is based upon the USN Empirical Armor Penetration Formula. These values are in substantial agreement with armor penetration curves published in 1942.


Thus how on Earth can this penetrate the Yamato's armor on turret (of 26")?


At 15000 yard ranges the most powerful gun US TF had has penetration of:

15,000 yards (13,716 m)

-> Side armour: 19.22" (488 mm)
-> Deck armour: 2.51" (64 mm)
-> Striking velocity: 1,796 fps (547 mps)
-> Angle of Fall: 10.5 degrees

At this range this is better than Yamato's main belt (16.1") and I fully understand that 16" USN gun hits would be devastating...


Thus, the only way for Yamato to survive is to keep distance and fight at 25000+ yards!


Leo "Apollo11"

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

I'd like to tell you all how well Alex played at tryouts this weekend, and how proud we are of him. Unfortunately, he didn't get a callback for the usual reasons, and I'm pissed at myself for forgetting my rule and getting my hopes up as I watched him play, when I know better. [:@]

AA tryouts in a little over 3 weeks. [:(]

No chance of him playing?

Coach?

This was the top level of tryouts, Leo, AAA. Next, he'll try out for AA, then A, then B, if needed, until he makes a team or does not make any of them. He will play in a local, non-travel, "house" league next season if he doesn't make one of these teams.

The kids are beyond the point where I can offer them anything as a coach. I never played myself, so all the kids can teach and coach me. [:D]

Best of luck Mike!

BTW, who decides if Alex has a change at tryouts? His previous performance or he gets to play in tryouts and then it is decided based on that performance and his performance in the past?



Leo "Apollo11"

Thanks, Leo! The tryouts are evaluated by the organization's goalie coach, team coaches, and other administrators. Earning a position or not is supposed to be based on his performance during the tryouts, but the evaluators (particularly the goalie coach) already know who is the best goalie based on previous performance, so have made up their mind before the tryouts even start.

We're all a little less angry today, and we've been through this a few times already in past years so we know we will get over it in time for Alex to go to the next level down tryouts and pretend he's actually being evaluated instead of just going through the motions. [:D]

BTW, I've talked to a lot of hockey parents over the years from a lot of places. This problem is not limited to the organization (Junior Hurricanes) that we have locally. Some organizations are better or worse, but it's a widespread problem in "competitive" youth sports programs. We just get the shaft a little more frequently because there happen to be a lot of goalies within 1 year of Alex's age, so there is extra competition for those spots.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I wish I had a shell-by-shell rundown of the fight, because it obviously doesn't make sense that a 16in shell at 26Kyds destroyed one of Yamatos turrets. I just remember that there was one big hit on it, but it obviously wasn't at 26Kyds.

The Yamato and Haruna had just bombarded Port Moresby, so maybe they were short of main battery shells and that, combined with bad gunnery, explains the poor performance.

Plus, obviously, I had waaaay more gun tubes than the other guy did and full ammunition loads.

quote:

ORIGINAL: USS America

Monday's belated pun:

Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Apollo11

Hi all,

Kristian, do you have some tables for the above statements?


For example: (Robert O. Dulin, Jr., and William H. Karzke, Jr. United States Battleships in World War II)

quote:


Immune Zone of "x" - "y" meters against the "z" inch gun:

The Immune Zone is defined as the range band, within which the armor of a ship is theoretically immune to penetration. In this example, at ranges of less than "X" meters, shells of "z" inches will have sufficient energy to penetrate the vertical armor plates, but will strike at too shallow an angle to penetrate the horizontal deck armor. At ranges greater than "y" meters, shells of "z" inches plunging at steep angles will have sufficient energy to penetrate horizontal deck plates, but will bounce off vertical plates. Within this zone, neither plates can be penetrated (again, theoretically).

quote:


Yamato stats:

Armor:
     Main Belt:          16.1"
     Armor Deck:          7.9"

18.1 INCH (460MM) GUN <14>

Designation:        Type 94
Shell Weight:
     AP:             3,218 lb
Range:
     AP:            45,276 yds at 45 deg
Muzzle Velocity:
     AP:             2,559 ft/sec
Armor Penetration: (AP)
      Range (meters)   Vertical (in)   Horizontal (in)

         5,000            30              0.9
        10,000            26.6            2
        20,000            19.4            4.3
        30,000            14.2            7.4
        35,000            12              10