RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel

RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (Full Version)

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Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 6:04:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces That does bring in another factor-- agression. The current deployment, with I assume some vertical movement to sweep the area like a "boy scout search", will test only Naval skill and a random die roll if the two objects meet in a 46 mile hex. The suggested configuration does brings into play a 'or' equation meaning if 'a' reacts or 'b' reacts we get a contact ... It has been my antidotal experince playing agasint the scripts to learn the game that the checkerbaord configuration does rely on Glens since the IJ subs do not have RADAR like the Allies after April 42 to get the naval reaction algorithum in play ... . ... Just my .02 ... It has been a very exciting and unique game so far! Yeah, Canoe is a great opponent and this game has been very fun so far. I think I can take this on points now if I want to. I have 18k, he has around 7k. When Singapore falls he will lose 1800 points. On top of that Im building up alot of 10-1 bases so my points will keep on growing. I think this is the factor that will push Canoe to attack in the north. His easiest way to score points will be in India, or in Alaska. I will make it prohibitively hard to recapture bases in India, which will force him to attack in North Pac. KB is swinging by Ceylon now to show the flag and make Canoe think I might attack in southern India, after that, everyone heads to Tokyo, and after that, the defensive battles of Alaska.

Hortlund -> OPERATION KIERA (8/9/2012 6:18:15 PM)
Here is the idea: Operation Kiera - the defence of the Aleutians. I will build up several bases to appear strong, and house large airunits, but small land units. These will be "strongpoints" in apperance, and with plenty of airunits. Then there will be bases that are not build up at all. These will be the bait. They will appear empty, or lightly defended. And hopefully they should attract a US player with loads of engineers and strong airunits. The three dot-bases just south of Kodiak should be considered the most likely target. Three bases in close vincinity, each possible to build up to a lvl 7 airfield (they are all 0(4) for airfield). Umnak Island is also a likely target with its 0(5) airfield. Each of these dot-bases will have at least 200 AV, and they will have fort levels around 4-5 hopefully. Adak will be the defensive center. Here the counterattack force will be located. North of everything, hovering invisibly in the Bering Sea, the KB will wait patiently for any foolish attack. To the east of Kodiak, only airunits and naval guards will defend. East of Kodiak, everything is expendable. [image]local://upfiles/1562/A402D05FD2CE45699AB606C6DEFEA0CF.jpg[/image]

Hortlund -> OPERATION KIERA (8/9/2012 6:20:49 PM)
Oh, and most of my Battleship line will be in this area aswell. My idea to trigger this invasion is to have a fake KB do a raid in the Indian Ocean. If Canoe thinks the CVs are in the Indian Ocean, he might think he has a window of opportunity. Now, all that remains is to convince Canoe that he cannot pull off successful counterattacks in the south or central pacific.

witpqs -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 6:22:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces quote: ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund quote: ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks Regarding your picket line: Have you considered placing then every other hex with reaction @ one? and maybe every other sub with a Glen? I think you could cover roughly the same area 2 deep like a checkerboard and get better results... Good idea, and it would make it almost watertight. But I have almost all my Glen subs in the pacific. That does bring in another factor-- agression. The current deployment, with I assume some vertical movement to sweep the area like a "boy scout search", will test only Naval skill and a random die roll if the two objects meet in a 46 mile hex. The suggested configuration does brings into play a 'or' equation meaning if 'a' reacts or 'b' reacts we get a contact ... It has been my antidotal experince playing agasint the scripts to learn the game that the checkerbaord configuration does rely on Glens since the IJ subs do not have RADAR like the Allies after April 42 to get the naval reaction algorithum in play ... . ... Just my .02 ... It has been a very exciting and unique game so far! One thing that was confirmed a long time ago by the developers and I've never seen contradicted by experience: Setting a TF to "Remain on Station" also wipes out any "React" setting. In other words it makes React = 0 because you are telling the TF to stay in the hex it is ordered to. If you want React to work then you must use either "Retirement Allowed" or give ti a "Patrol" setting. Even a Patrol area of a single hex works fine (I mean technically works fine, I am not recommending any specific patrol setting). You didn't specify if they are set to Remain on Station or on Patrol so I thought I would point out that issue. I'm away from home right now but I thought reaction played off of detection level. If an enemy TF tries to push through the checkerboard the Glens or other subs have a chance of detecting the enemy TF. As detection levels increase and based on some roll(s) of the dice, ships in the area can "react" to the enemy presence and attempt an intercept. Apples and concrete. AFAIK what you wrote is correct. What I wrote is that setting "Remain on Station" orders the TF not to react (confirmed by developers more than once and borne out in practice). So if the TF is close by and there is a good D/L on a target TF, you get the TF commander sitting there as the target goes by thinking "I hope Admiral Dumbbell knows what he is doing!" Ahhh - I C what U're saying - thanx 4 explaining. Can you get by this problem by setting a patrol of the same hex for either two or all three patrol locations? No, works fine with Patrol. BTW you only have to set one hex for a Patrol, the second and third hexes are optional.

1EyedJacks -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 6:26:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: Crackaces quote: ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund quote: ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks Regarding your picket line: Have you considered placing then every other hex with reaction @ one? and maybe every other sub with a Glen? I think you could cover roughly the same area 2 deep like a checkerboard and get better results... Good idea, and it would make it almost watertight. But I have almost all my Glen subs in the pacific. That does bring in another factor-- agression. The current deployment, with I assume some vertical movement to sweep the area like a "boy scout search", will test only Naval skill and a random die roll if the two objects meet in a 46 mile hex. The suggested configuration does brings into play a 'or' equation meaning if 'a' reacts or 'b' reacts we get a contact ... It has been my antidotal experince playing agasint the scripts to learn the game that the checkerbaord configuration does rely on Glens since the IJ subs do not have RADAR like the Allies after April 42 to get the naval reaction algorithum in play ... . ... Just my .02 ... It has been a very exciting and unique game so far! One thing that was confirmed a long time ago by the developers and I've never seen contradicted by experience: Setting a TF to "Remain on Station" also wipes out any "React" setting. In other words it makes React = 0 because you are telling the TF to stay in the hex it is ordered to. If you want React to work then you must use either "Retirement Allowed" or give ti a "Patrol" setting. Even a Patrol area of a single hex works fine (I mean technically works fine, I am not recommending any specific patrol setting). You didn't specify if they are set to Remain on Station or on Patrol so I thought I would point out that issue. I'm away from home right now but I thought reaction played off of detection level. If an enemy TF tries to push through the checkerboard the Glens or other subs have a chance of detecting the enemy TF. As detection levels increase and based on some roll(s) of the dice, ships in the area can "react" to the enemy presence and attempt an intercept. Apples and concrete. AFAIK what you wrote is correct. What I wrote is that setting "Remain on Station" orders the TF not to react (confirmed by developers more than once and borne out in practice). So if the TF is close by and there is a good D/L on a target TF, you get the TF commander sitting there as the target goes by thinking "I hope Admiral Dumbbell knows what he is doing!" Ahhh - I C what U're saying - thanx 4 explaining. Can you get by this problem by setting a patrol of the same hex for either two or all three patrol locations? No, works fine with Patrol. BTW you only have to set one hex for a Patrol, the second and third hexes are optional. Thanx for the education <grin>

Capt. Harlock -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 8:23:13 PM)
quote: CL Boise is sunk off Port Hedland. After a night engagement against CA Haguro, Boise was retreating west when Kates from Zuiho caught her. The much-dreaded Boise is gone? Well, at least you can claim one significant accomplishment.[sm=character0272.gif]

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 9:31:17 PM)
quote: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Bataan (78,77) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 2574 troops, 162 guns, 196 vehicles, Assault Value = 976 Defending force 24348 troops, 354 guns, 297 vehicles, Assault Value = 95 Allied ground losses: 184 casualties reported Squads: 29 destroyed, 7 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled) Assaulting units: 21st/B Division 10th Garrison Unit 33rd Division 11th Garrison Unit 20th Ind. Engineer Regiment 16th Division 21st/C Division 3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 2nd Mortar Battalion 16th Army 9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 1st Hvy.Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 19th Ind. Engineer Regiment 1st Medium Field Artillery Regiment 3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment Defending units: 31st PA Infantry Division 11th PA Infantry Division 1st PA Infantry Division 45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team 2nd PA Constblry HW Regiment Manila Bay Defenses 4th PA Constabulary Regiment Provisional GMC Grp Asiatic Fleet 91st PA Infantry Division USAFFE 41st PA Infantry Division 88th PS Field Artillery Regiment 301st Construction Battalion 1st PA Constabulary Regiment 57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team Far East USAAF 26th PS Cavalry Regiment 201st PA Construction Battalion 194th Tank Battalion 2nd PA Constabulary Regiment 200th & 515th Coast AA Regiment 31st Infantry Regiment 803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion 51st PA Infantry Division 21st PA Infantry Division 202nd PA Construction Battalion Cavite USN Base Force Bataan USN Base Force 4th Marine Regiment Clark Field USAAF Base Force 301st PA Field Artillery Regiment Im ordering another shock attack tomorrow. If it fails again I dont know what I'll do..

ny59giants -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 9:36:28 PM)
How much flak are your bombing attacks over Bataan getting?? You can usually tell how bad the supply situation is by how little flak.

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 9:38:05 PM)
No flak at all for the past month

Hanzberger -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/9/2012 11:03:43 PM)
I'm liking your overall plan~! BANZAI [&o]

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/10/2012 10:07:39 AM)
Bataan has fallen. Finally. My troops crossed into Singapore, but I made a simple misstake, that cost alot. I had to rush the turn to get it out before I had to leave the computer, and as a result, I accidentally moved a command hq into Singapore, and I forgot to do several things that would have caused less losses in the crossing. As a result, two divisions are completely trashed, and a command hq is in a combat hex. I asked Canoe not to attack while I get my command hq out of the way. Annoying misstake, I had set all units to follow, then cancelled the move orders for the command hq, but then I changed to let a hvy art unit lead the march, and forgot to reset the movement orders for the hq. On top of that I forgot to order several hundred bombers to attack, and paras to jump. In China, Canoe is pulling back to Sian. Amazingly he is leaving his easy to defend positions in WR-hexes.. I dont know where he is pulling back to.. [image]local://upfiles/1562/76C0ED57926440099605896AF4C3E8F7.jpg[/image]

Hortlund -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 3:53:28 PM)
Scene at the Imperial HQ. Chief of Staff: Sir, there seems to be a massive counterattack mounting south of Changsa. As much as 36 units might be about to attack our 4 divisions cutting the Changsa railline. Intelligence estimates are sketchy but there are as many as 300 000 Chinese soldiers reported in that area. Hortlund: Those troops are in terrain that prevents a retreat in time to avoid the threat, they must stand and fight. [turns to IJAAF and IJNAF commanders] You two, all airunits are to be committed to this defensive battle. Bring everyone. Chief of IJAAF: Everyone? Hortlund: [img]http://gallery.drfaulken.com/d/8616-1/EVERYONE.png[/img]

Cribtop -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 4:06:25 PM)
[:D]

Hortlund -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 4:08:58 PM)
.. [image]local://upfiles/1562/064DAFDDB99748A5ADFAD20E95437D1D.jpg[/image]

zuluhour -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 7:57:04 PM)
After watching Dan's last game, I konw he like the "super sized" Chinese stack. It would leave me to believe its two reinforced Army Groups. He has got to have a very "tender" spot somewhere. Reco by fire, ac, anything. Find it. It's there. [image]local://upfiles/37319/B1D46778B00343E68534B34083B0A687.jpg[/image]

Hortlund -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 8:25:41 PM)
Two days have passed. The stacks should arrive soon. My airforce is causing a little over 1100 casualties per day. I hope it is enough. Waiting for them are about 1800 AV in open ground, with perhaps fort lvl 1.

zuluhour -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 8:36:31 PM)
What kind of combat power do you have? guns? tanks?

Hortlund -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/10/2012 10:04:05 PM)
Just 4 infantry divisions

Hortlund -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/11/2012 12:06:35 PM)
Still no crossing. Im setting up an air-bridge to make sure the supplies stay in the white. I have roughly 300 bombers and 100 transports flying support for these troops now. In India we are about to close the trap around Calcutta. It seems there will be a battle for the city. After Singapore I might have to move in more troops.

zuluhour -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/11/2012 1:28:06 PM)
If Dan thinks he may lose "big" on the Yangtze he will not cross and of course he may be trying to make you commit to one area so he can.....If he is still coming, I asked Alfred about river crossings last night because I am looking at several in Burma, and heres what he shared with me ( this does not include some degree of disruption also): If both the hexes that the attacker is moving from and to, are controlled by the attacker, and the river hexside is also controlled by the attacker, then wouldn't the attacker be free to move into the hex. Or stepping thru the process. 1. Attacker crosses river hexside into the enemy controled hex - shock attack 2. Hex control stays with defender as he was not forced out of hex. River hexside controled by attacker. 3. Attacker moves more units into hex over river hexside - possible shock attack based on AV comparison (1/3) 4. Defender forced out of hex - hex control goes to attacker. 5. Defender moves back into hex. 6. Attacker moves units into hex across river hexside - no attack forced as attacker controls both hexes and river hexsides (NEW). Can anyone see any flaw in this logic? All steps but (#6) is how it is now. ps. (Zulu) I don't get #5. Just changed 'ownership' to 'control' < Message edited by michaelm -- 8/25/2011 3:21:18 AM > The short answer is that a shock attack does not always ensue for subsequent crossings. But for the initial crossing a shock attack should ensue, provided the units in the initial crossing have some AV.

zuluhour -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/11/2012 1:36:17 PM)
PH, I should mention that I followed Dans last game closely and have decided to view a game against him. I visited his AAR in the beginning but have no idea of his intentions or dispositions. I am only in my first PBEM so lack experience to help you in any meaningful fashion but if I can bring Alfreds or Michaelm's comments to bear when relevent to save your brain power for more important matters, so be it, if it's ok by you. Supreme Allied Comander TWIT Zuluhour CnC

witpqs -> RE: OPERATION KIERA (8/11/2012 2:42:03 PM)
One clarification based on Micahel's past posts: quote: ORIGINAL: zuluhour Or stepping thru the process. 1. Attacker crosses river hexside into the enemy controled hex - shock attack 2. Hex control stays with defender as he was not forced out of hex. River hexside controled by attacker. 3. Attacker moves more units into hex over river hexside - possible shock attack based on AV comparison (1/3) This AV comparison uses the Attacker AV ALREADY IN THE HEX (that is, not counting the Attacker troops that are crossing the river that same turn). The rationale is that the comparison determines if the attacker already has a sufficiently-sized bridgehead to avoid further mandatory shock attacks. 4. Defender forced out of hex - hex control goes to attacker. 5. Defender moves back into hex.

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:07:45 PM)
Canoe is moving into the hex now. In doing so, he has more or less abandoned Changsa. I really must risk a shock attack here, there are not many opportunities like this. I will be facing lvl 4 forts or higher. But still, we must attack. If I fail to defend the river and lose at Changsa, I will have to move large parts of the Manchurian army into China. So, we might see a soviet activation... [image]local://upfiles/1562/7CCFEEDEA70141A28B0BCBEC7335EEF2.jpg[/image]

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:10:39 PM)
This is what it looks like Ground combat at Changsha (82,52) Japanese Bombardment attack Attacking force 4564 troops, 38 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1608 Defending force 31437 troops, 235 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 979 Japanese ground losses: 26 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Assaulting units: 58th Division 12th Ind.Mixed Brigade 10th Division 19th Division 24th Division 13th Army Defending units: 3rd New Chinese Corps 26th Chinese Corps 73rd Chinese Corps 53rd Chinese Corps 5th Construction Regiment 30th Group Army 17th Chinese Base Force 41st AA Regiment

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:11:35 PM)
So, for tomorrow. Every avaliable bomber will sortie for Changsha, after that, our troops there will perform a shock attack.

1EyedJacks -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:24:15 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Panzerjaeger Hortlund So, for tomorrow. Every avaliable bomber will sortie for Changsha, after that, our troops there will perform a shock attack. Just curious - no combat engineers or arty? Do you have any HQs available that might contribute positively to the die rolls? Can I also ask how the supplies are for the troops you'll be attacking with? Plenty of beans, bullets, and bandages seem to make a big difference in combat... <grin>

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:26:56 PM)
No engineers or arty except organic. Supplies in the whites, support is green and a command HQ in range.

1EyedJacks -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:38:47 PM)
I think the combat modifiers are still against you on this... Cities R X3 - right? Plus level 4 forts... Even with good weather and multiple air groups hitting the target to pound in some disruption, I think your odds are still on the short end of the stick. What's your GOTH plan?

Hortlund -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 3:56:50 PM)
GOTH?

1EyedJacks -> RE: Where the eastern wind is blowing... AAR against Canoerebel (8/11/2012 4:11:46 PM)
Ah - when things GO To Hell plan... :-)

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