RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent

RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/10/2017 11:42:19 PM)
If you can judge a book by its cover, this oughta be a good one!

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/10/2017 11:59:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel If you can judge a book by its cover, this oughta be a good one! Great cover. It's a initial 3 volume release... [image]local://upfiles/55056/3DF9394B3A9840CB80BF9029C90B9D5F.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 12:22:19 AM)
Hey, I seem to be a more prolific writer than Peter Cozzens!

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 12:30:41 AM)
Several forumites are published authors .... [image]local://upfiles/8143/F0318D2EC1A1487293044BA92F961CB1.jpg[/image]

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 12:32:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Hey, I seem to be a more prolific writer than Peter Cozzens! Just hope that Warspite doesn't read it and put your facts through the wringer.

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 12:38:21 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Several forumites are published authors .... [image]local://upfiles/8143/F0318D2EC1A1487293044BA92F961CB1.jpg[/image] She was good enough for Jeff Hunter.... and doesn't lock up her jewelry [image]local://upfiles/55056/8B68045438494E77AF824D44426B91D4.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:10:41 AM)
8/17/44 Battle of Chaochow: John mistimed a shock attack that came off just after the Allied infantry arrived and just after massed 4EB strikes against his main coastal army. The results weren't pretty. Yesterday, two small Allied armored units arrived in the hex. John took a chance that the infantry might lag two more days, but it didn't. Here are a few of the major bombing runs: 1. Morning Air attack on 5th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 81,61 (Chaochow) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 24 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 8 minutes Allied aircraft Liberator GR.VI x 19 B-24D1 Liberator x 3 B-24J Liberator x 6 B-29-1 Superfort x 6 Allied aircraft losses Liberator GR.VI: 3 damaged Japanese ground losses: 144 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 8 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled (2) Morning Air attack on Chaochow , at 81,61 Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 40 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 12 minutes Allied aircraft B-24J Liberator x 5 B-29-1 Superfort x 135 Allied aircraft losses B-29-1 Superfort: 5 damaged Japanese ground losses: 671 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 39 disabled Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 56 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Airbase hits 1 Airbase supply hits 2 Runway hits 3 (3) Morning Air attack on 2nd Air Division, at 81,61 (Chaochow) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Allied aircraft B-24D1 Liberator x 9 B-24J Liberator x 9 Allied aircraft losses B-24J Liberator: 2 damaged Japanese ground losses: 168 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 15 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled (4) Morning Air attack on 17th JAAF Base Force, at 81,61 (Chaochow) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 31 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 10 minutes Allied aircraft B-24J Liberator x 6 B-29-1 Superfort x 6 F6F-3 Hellcat x 14 No Allied losses Japanese ground losses: 94 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 16 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled (5) Morning Air attack on 5th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 81,61 (Chaochow) Weather in hex: Overcast Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 6 minutes Allied aircraft B-24J Liberator x 8 P-40N5 Warhawk x 7 F6F-3 Hellcat x 14 No Allied losses Japanese ground losses: 84 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:12:16 AM)
Ground combat at Chaochow (81,61) Japanese Shock attack Attacking force 17083 troops, 219 guns, 145 vehicles, Assault Value = 404 Defending force 29854 troops, 419 guns, 764 vehicles, Assault Value = 854 Japanese adjusted assault: 5 Allied adjusted defense: 723 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 144 Combat modifiers Defender: preparation(-) Attacker: shock(+), disruption(-) Japanese ground losses: 3074 casualties reported Squads: 200 destroyed, 54 disabled Non Combat: 53 destroyed, 59 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 12 disabled Guns lost 41 (8 destroyed, 33 disabled) Vehicles lost 49 (43 destroyed, 6 disabled) Units destroyed 1 Allied ground losses: 15 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Vehicles lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled) Assaulting units: 51st Recon Regiment 9th Ind.Mixed Brigade 17th Ind.Mixed Brigade 69th Ind.Infantry Battalion 6th Division 5th Ind.Mixed Brigade 10th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 52nd Road Const Co 2nd Air Division 11th Ind. Field Artillery Battalion 3rd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment Amoy Special Base Force 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 17th JAAF Base Force 2nd Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 2nd JAAF AF Coy Defending units: 706th Tank Battalion I Corps Cmbt Engineer Regiment 767th Tank Battalion 93rd Infantry Division 7th Infantry Division

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:17:26 AM)
On the shock attack, John lost about 250 squads (destroyed + disabled) out of about 400. The base should fall when the Allies attack tomorrow. The IJA stack at Chaochow is the only stiff resistance in this sector. So Swatow, the adjacent hex, shouldn't be hard to take. That's the last objective of Peep Show in China, for now anyway. John has two divisions up around Kukong and four more inbound from Indochina. The deteriorating situation should hold his attention.

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:19:13 AM)
Why Liberator GR.VI on daylight raids? Everyone flys? You seeing no sea threat at night? Do radar aircraft have a advantage in bad weather?

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:22:59 AM)
Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI?

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:30:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location. And they were modified Very Long Range (VLR) Liberators.

jwolf -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:39:52 AM)
The Japanese simply cannot risk attacks, or even movement, like that in clear terrain without air cover. That's two Jap divisions (among other units) badly trashed. I suppose John might complain about your use of B29s in a ground attack role, but really ... would he rather they be bombing his industry? From the Japanese point of view, it must have been tempting to respond to your landing at Foochow with a sort of isolation cordon and then a steady crunch to push you out or destroy you. But the balance of forces is not as it was back in the Sumatra days. I guess it still might be possible for the Japanese, but they would have to come at you with just about everything they have in the whole China theater. And that leaves the Chinese army ... not a good option for the Japanese.

Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:50:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes. Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29. The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them.

Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:52:47 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jwolf The Japanese simply cannot risk attacks, or even movement, like that in clear terrain without air cover. That's two Jap divisions (among other units) badly trashed. I suppose John might complain about your use of B29s in a ground attack role, but really ... would he rather they be bombing his industry? From the Japanese point of view, it must have been tempting to respond to your landing at Foochow with a sort of isolation cordon and then a steady crunch to push you out or destroy you. But the balance of forces is not as it was back in the Sumatra days. I guess it still might be possible for the Japanese, but they would have to come at you with just about everything they have in the whole China theater. And that leaves the Chinese army ... not a good option for the Japanese. John has no leg to stand on complaining about B29 usage, since he removed night bombing from the program. It will be interesting to see who has the better learning curve with respect to night bombing.

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:56:15 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes. Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29. The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them. Night attack , I just got them and I remember doing something at night with them [:D] I was rationalizing night attack as a informal night search.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:56:29 AM)
When fun clashes with the cold, hard facts. [image]local://upfiles/8143/AACEEAF1FEA54CFBAF3D0670E224A480.jpg[/image]

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 2:00:34 AM)
Ive been Knighted!!!! Where's ME castle!!!

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 2:04:19 AM)
I mainly was wondering if you were set on fully annihilating his forces at that location so everything was flying. They would be a good tool in tracking KB at night, having such a long range. Since Night Attack will give contact results.

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 2:09:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel When fun clashes with the cold, hard facts. They probably taxi on the wrong side of the runway.

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 2:24:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes. Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29. The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them. quote: You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes. Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29. The British have some neat fun WAIT The PB4Y-1 (B-24) Liberator Squadrons can night search, so can the Liberator GR.VI?

JeffroK -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 4:08:36 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes. Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29. The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them. No, 12000 & 22000lbs, the RAF was dropping them some 70 years before THOAB, and almost as accurately.

Lokasenna -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 4:10:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe quote: ORIGINAL: MakeeLearn quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? Doesn't it have radar? I use radar B24s mainly at night "Cat Eyes" for naval search/attack unless a "Everyone flies" is needed and being ground attacks I wondered if you were set on annihilating his forces at that location You can't use bombers on night search...on floatplanes and flying boats. Night attack, yes. Those long legged British bombers are best used at night, their radar will help them bomb targets a bit better. They are also fragile compared to a B24 or B29. The British have some neat funnies that arrive...10,000 # and 4,000# bombs if I recall correctly? Game won't last that long I don't think...but it is nice to dream about using them. I don't think radar does anything for bombing accuracy.

DW -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 6:56:38 AM)
I can't help but suspect that John is short of fuel around the home islands. With your penetration effectively cutting his conquests in two and insuring that no more oil is going to flow from his production centers to Japan, I'm betting he's afraid to move KB too far from his fuel supplies lest it get cut off and starved out of the war. He's done a lot of steaming around with KB, so I can't imagine he's been able to build up a huge stockpile of fuel in Japan. That would explain why he's seems to be so committed to keeping KB in the south even with the building pressure up north.

IJV -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 7:44:14 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Canoerebel Yer posing a question based on the premise that I know there's something special about the GR.VI? I know it's a four-engine bomber with good range. I know there's no enemy opposition in the hex (it's a level one airfield with supply issues and John can't chance having disabled planes stuck here and then destroyed). What's special about the GR.VI? The Brit/CW GR ('General Reconnaisance') are conceptually naval patrol aircraft along the lines of the US PB4Y etc, hence the radar - the Liberator GR.III I think also drops the armour but the others not. The key thing is that you get less than half the bombload (8250lb vs 10500lb) so they're only so destructive - of course, if the range is the difference between bombing and not...

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 11:56:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DW I can't help but suspect that John is short of fuel around the home islands. With your penetration effectively cutting his conquests in two and insuring that no more oil is going to flow from his production centers to Japan, I'm betting he's afraid to move KB too far from his fuel supplies lest it get cut off and starved out of the war. He's done a lot of steaming around with KB, so I can't imagine he's been able to build up a huge stockpile of fuel in Japan. That would explain why he's seems to be so committed to keeping KB in the south even with the building pressure up north. This could well be the case. Once the Formosa campaign is complete, I'll turn to the DEI. Many troops are 100% prepped for targets like Balikpapan and Singapore, though I may choose something that has more room for maneuver and bombing, like Java. DS will assist with that operation, which will be designed to fragment John's positions in the DEI, while also exposing his remaining ports to bombing raids.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 11:58:31 AM)
8/18/44 Peep Show: The self-destruction of the Japanese army at Chaochow is the focal point in China today. SEAC: In Indochina, the northernmost Allied stack beats back the battered Japanese stack. There's nothing blocking the Allied advance to Hanoi/Haiphong. [image]local://upfiles/8143/842C9B04F1A34874AD9BE824D29E87A1.jpg[/image]

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 11:59:57 AM)
8/18/44 KB, DS & the DEI: While KB pulls into Ketapang, DS is refueling at Sorong and Mini DS is halfway between Merauke and Boela. [image]local://upfiles/8143/8A7C9E82B84E45BEBE1EC0E22D98C230.jpg[/image]

MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 12:28:47 PM)
Thanks Lokasenna and IJV for the info. Air radar = "On Plane Radar" Or "looks for plane radar" (???) hmmmm... seems to help with Bomber co-ordination at night: 73. Tweak Bomber co-ordination at night depends on skill, moon and air radar; complements above fix to CAP CR I was not criticizing your use of GR.VI, I was wanting to know if you were bombing with a specific strategy. As you say the Japanese are "helping you" at Chaochow.

Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (6/11/2017 1:08:29 PM)
Your comment came across as an expression of surprise that I had used the GR.VI in that way, and as an inquiry to find out if there was a method to my madness. There wasn't, so I had to point out that I was ignorant. I understand the concepts of logistics and massed use of force in the game, but I am pretty ignorant of what goes on under the hood. Some players love to look at airplanes stats or figure out how the AI resolves particular types of combat. I'm not good at digesting and understanding that kind of information, so I don't do it. That can work to my disadvantage, as in this case where I didn't know: (1) the GR.VI carries a lighter load; (2) has radar; and (3) is night bomber. Now I know, and more importantly it'll prompt me to take a closer look at all those other classes of Brit 4EB (I wondered why there were endless varieties with about three in the pools, at best).

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