RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (Full Version)

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Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 12:45:59 AM)

1/4/45

LOC Games in the DEI and SoPac: John is working hard to interdict Allied supply. He's emplaced infrastructure - subs, search aircraft, strike aircraft, combat TFs, carrier TFs. He's scoring hits against low-value targets. A few days back, I started a series of small convoys between Boela and Oz, going both ways. It was like waving a red flag in front of a bull. He's pawing the dirt and puffing violently. He's determined to strike and hard. But it's far too late to accomplish anything meaningful, so I'm trying to goad him along.

My concerns about possible enemy invasions against high-victory point targets is diminishing. I don't see any signs of impending invasions. But reinforcements are unloading at Noumea. Others are inbound to Fiji. Just a few small units to make sure John doesn't pull off any quick coup de mains.


[image]local://upfiles/8143/B27C4E7418F74575AE92807419173B6B.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 12:51:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

I expect supply has to be near exhausted in China. You might be able to roll some of those cities to the North. Anything with big points up there? If you ever got loose in that open country it would not be pretty


I'm seeing a lot of supply(-) during combat in China now. Not universal but widespread. I think it's an issue that will get worse.

I don't think there are any real high value bases in northern China or even Korea. I haven't taken an exhaustive census, but I think that's true. But there's lots of points to be gained from wiping out the Japanese army...and then moving to Korea and Manchuria to find new airfields and perhaps trigger Russian activation.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 3:48:22 AM)

Mukden is worth 1300 points and Keijo 500. Both together are worth only 2/3rds of what Shanghai is worth. I think most of the rest of the remaining bases in the IJ sector of China and Korea are worth nominal points that, in the aggregate, will add up to a decent amount. But points for bases clearly isn't the primary draw of heading north from Shanghai.



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 6:07:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Mukden is worth 1300 points and Keijo 500. Both together are worth only 2/3rds of what Shanghai is worth. I think most of the rest of the remaining bases in the IJ sector of China and Korea are worth nominal points that, in the aggregate, will add up to a decent amount. But points for bases clearly isn't the primary draw of heading north from Shanghai.

Don't overlook Peiping. It is X100 for the Allies.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 8:04:27 PM)

Hey, I did overlook Peiping. It's currently a level 4 airfield worth 800 points. So if the Allies take it and build it to level 9, that's a total of 1800 points.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 8:05:40 PM)

1/5/45

Fancy Pants: Raid on Fukuoka has modest success.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/7548D3273EDC43D29ADC55EA511F93F9.jpg[/image]



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 8:19:31 PM)

quote:

Raid on Fukuoka has modest success


Very good for heavy cloud and heavy rain.



JohnDillworth -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 10:13:07 PM)

Can he retreat from Shanghai? If not you should bag a big bunch of units there



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 10:52:39 PM)

He only has 30k left at Shanghai. He pulled out about 45k, mostly beat up, rag-tag units that weren't contributing to the defense. He's done a pretty good job at not letting big armies get hemmed in. Every now an then I get one, as at Hengyang two months back.



Bearcat2 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 10:54:03 PM)

No replenishment fleet for DS?



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/21/2017 10:58:15 PM)

The carriers don't need fuel. They need to replenish sorties and missing aircraft.

Hey, I forgot. The AEs can replenish at sea now! I had overlooked that little tidbit. But I don't know if AEs replenish sorties. Probably not.



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/22/2017 3:22:14 AM)

Yes, AEs replenish sorties. Sorties are the carrier equivalent of ammo and avgas stores. And maybe some new underwear for the newbie pilots ...



Crackaces -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/22/2017 11:24:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Hey, I did overlook Peiping. It's currently a level 4 airfield worth 800 points. So if the Allies take it and build it to level 9, that's a total of 1800 points.


Also count the points lost in the denominator ..
Also it’s open ground on the way .. if the IJ resist .. it's a disaster.. they have only one option take troops from elsewhere to defend



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/22/2017 11:29:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


Also count the points lost in the denominator ..



I think it is worth next to nothing to Japan.



Crackaces -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 1:41:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe


quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


Also count the points lost in the denominator ..



I think it is worth next to nothing to Japan.


But x2 .. given victory conditions require 2:1 .. meaning twice as many airplane or other things have to be killed to get the same ratio of points ..and I believe every city taken subtracts (unless it’s unsupplied already then Lowpe has another point) it is insidious .. but it leads to victory from my view



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 2:31:29 AM)

1/6/45

Raid on Nagasaki: John has teeth! He put up many more fighters, resulting in a tough air battle over this base. 1:1 fighter losses, but enough enemy fighters are in the air to damage nearly enough Liberators to result in 28 ops losses. The Liberators set 75k fires, but that's still not a good equation.

Fancy Pants: Allied attack at Shanghai drops forts to 4. I don't know if John has lots of good fresh troops to feed into this battle, but I doubt it. And would he want to expose good units to air attack in open terrain? His 39th Division has basically been neutered by 2EB and 1EB over four or five days, down near Canton.

Death Star is retiring to Foochow to replenish.

Enemy carriers all over the place! Two big divisions in the Java Sea heading towards the South China Sea; on at Timor; a third SE of Guadalcanal, probably raiding or feinting towards all the Allied shipping at Pago Pago and vicinity. The inveterate raider at it again!

[image]local://upfiles/8143/C3678E3BC6AF4D9C95C3BBD5E0A28ED7.jpg[/image]



HansBolter -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 11:55:05 AM)

Harbin has about a gizallion aircraft factories, at least in the mods I have been playing.
In some ways it a better target than Mukden because of this.



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 2:26:52 PM)

quote:

Death Star is retiring to Foochow to replenish.


To get more flux capacitors.

[image]local://upfiles/55056/3E34148D924C452E96157427E71EEC3E.jpg[/image]



crsutton -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 3:22:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The carriers don't need fuel. They need to replenish sorties and missing aircraft.

Hey, I forgot. The AEs can replenish at sea now! I had overlooked that little tidbit. But I don't know if AEs replenish sorties. Probably not.


Don't forget that you can place VR squadrons at friendly bases and they will fly replacement aircraft to needy carriers that come within normal range.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 5:44:55 PM)

1/7/45

A pretty good day, in part because the recent strategic bombing raids earned nice residual dividends (points trickle in days after fires are set); also because the ground war in China is progressing nicely; but mainly because some down time gave me the time to think about what I want to do next with Death Star.

I can make a decent argument that detaching Death Star to support an invasion of Malaya makes sense. It would expedite the campaign for Singapore, with it's rich point total. But DS helps support the strategic bombing campaign. And while I don't think the current campaign in China requires DS patrolling offshore, John might come up with something or other to reinforce or stabilize the theater. Most importantly of all, an invasion of Malaya would require probably 200k supply. I'd much rather use that to support China and Strategic Bombing.

So I think the war will continue to look much like it has of late. The emphasis will be on breaking through at Shanghai and Nanking and then trying to create a route-step advance to the Manchurian frontier. Harbin and Mukdin are calling.

And the Strategic Bombing campaign will continue with Death Star's support. The most recent DS raid - focusing totally on Nagasaki and Fukuoka - won't be repeated. Next time, I think I'll probe deeper, eventually trying a consolidated strike on Osaka, Tokyo, Gifu or Maebashi.

Fancy Pants: The Allies are beginning to draw proximate to Nanking. In the west, the Japanese division between Canton and Hong Kong is in really bad shape, solely from air attacks; and the Japanese division at Lang Son is in really bad condition after a 7:1 Allied attack.


[image]local://upfiles/8143/2D63322D57FA44628D6A50503702AECB.jpg[/image]



BBfanboy -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/23/2017 5:53:14 PM)

Commanders do not forget to bring fuel to the front but, as Cap Mandrake frequently points out, "the Staff" will frequently let you down! [:)]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 5:14:45 PM)

1/8/45

John the Raider: KB is on an easterly course, bearing down on Allied shipping at Canton Island and vicinity. Just how determined is John? How far will he come? Can I entice him or goad him to charge? I hope so.....



[image]local://upfiles/8143/FC45BF9BDD7C452DB6A23740B66885A4.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 5:16:25 PM)

1/8/45

Inveterate Raider Part II: Because out here in the Pacific, the Allies have a carrier force that might be sufficient to take on John's raiding CV TF. I need him to come further and stay longer...and hope that he might blunt his carrier air against LBA. Lots of "ifs, ands, maybes" here but worth a shot.


[image]local://upfiles/8143/2A7D4858455747D2BD576FD896FDC7D3.jpg[/image]



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 5:34:21 PM)

1/8/45

Gulf of Carpentaria: Another Japanese carrier TF is set to raid the Gulf, I think. This is John working very hard to interdict Allied supply. Again, a good idea but implemented far too late (I think.)

John has two other carrier TFs recently seen in the Java Sea heading west. These could be in the South China Sea, but equally possible they're taking position to interdict any Allied moves on the Andamans or Nicobars. (I'm giving John lots of reasons to suspect such a move is imminent, though it isn't.)

[image]local://upfiles/8143/DEFD761FAC5A44CA95E4D80F0A4F340A.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 5:44:06 PM)

In truth, you can pursue any tactic you want and this show is helping Japan how?

I would think the CVs by Ellice are dangerously exposed, with most likely predictable paths of movement. And you could say the same for the ones near Darwin.

Can you night bomb his ports with low level B29s? No DL required. So many other little tactics to pursue here. Have fun.




Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 5:56:54 PM)

I think John worked hard to come up with a good plan and is now working hard to implement it. If my analysis is correct, it's simply that the plan might have worked six months ago or a year ago but is no longer viable today.

So I credit him for thinking and striving. Ultimately, though, it strikes me hardest as: How do you work yourself into a philosophy of war that justifies KB in SoPac when the enemy is all over the heartland.

It's strange, but it makes for a fun game.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 5:58:12 PM)

I've done some port bombing using 4EB. One raid, about a week ago, sank a bunch of small stuff at Nagasaki. I'll be doing more later.



Canoerebel -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 6:04:34 PM)

1/8/45

Fancy Pants: Two successful Allied attacks near Nanking. Nanking is next, and looks weakly held. The Allies army is beginning to roll.

[image]local://upfiles/8143/06417E6224DB45CBBD384806452D4600.jpg[/image]



MakeeLearn -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 6:57:08 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



So I credit him for thinking and striving. Ultimately, though, it strikes me hardest as: How do you work yourself into a philosophy of war that justifies KB in SoPac when the enemy is all over the heartland.




It makes not having your KB shot to pieces a LOT easier.



Bif1961 -> RE: The Good The Bad & The Indifferent (10/24/2017 11:41:11 PM)

I think you should go for those carriers in the Ellice Island you are close to PH which could repair even major damage and he is so far away from any repair facilities in medium damage would be the end of them.



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