RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (Full Version)

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Arstavidios -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/7/2013 7:52:28 PM)

depends on your situation.
I like to have more units to hold the front, even if that means they're not full strength.
but it depends on how big the red army has grown and how much pressure there is on your lines.



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/7/2013 8:48:53 PM)

Not much pressure atm, but the Red Army is big. I need fewer units with bigger holding power than I need more units with less holding capability [:)]



tm1 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/8/2013 1:16:04 PM)

Hi Terje
Keep the screen shots coming its good to see how the campaign is going as well reading the info.
Speaking of the battle I see from T74 map the Soviets are massing but it looks like you have some reserves in the south which should help.
The Salient in front of Smolensk looks ominous, how are the status of your Panzers.

On the subject of army air force bases 2nd Panzerarmee has the same problem when it disbands also, and to add insult to injury when it reforms in early 1945 you cant re attach it to the HQ.
cheers
Regards TM



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/8/2013 1:34:37 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: tm1

Hi Terje
Keep the screen shots coming its good to see how the campaign is going as well reading the info.
Speaking of the battle I see from T74 map the Soviets are massing but it looks like you have some reserves in the south which should help.
The Salient in front of Smolensk looks ominous, how are the status of your Panzers.

On the subject of army air force bases 2nd Panzerarmee has the same problem when it disbands also, and to add insult to injury when it reforms in early 1945 you cant re attach it to the HQ.
cheers
Regards TM



Will do next turn [:)]
The campaign is more or less where I expected it would be after I saw how well Sean attacked my panzers, so we are sitting tight, only launching attacks where we have atleast a 2:1 pre battle CV advantage.
My panzers are ok, nothing more. Their CV is too low for my liking, but they should be able to fight off any USSR stack that appears. But for now they remain to the rear to rest and regain strength.

Yup, seems like a slight oversight in the rules about those air bases..


Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/8/2013 1:38:34 PM)

Turn 76

Overall
Still very quiet, with 2 attacks from the USSR and 3 from us. All attacks results in retreats. Either Sean is simply waiting until his army is fully upgraded with corps formations, or he is unsure if the lull is some sort of a trapping attempt by me. I am glad about it, as it gives me more time to dig in properly.

Losses
USSR : 19.000 troops, 141 guns, 8 AFVs, 34 AC.
Axis : 12.000 troops, 118 guns, 10 AFVs, 3 AC.

Partisans
We take out 8 of the 11 that are on the map.

German units disbanded
Two more Luftwaffe Field Divisions are disbanded.

German Pools
Manpower : 13.873
Vehicles : 166.451
Armaments : 113.131
Hiwi : 7



[image]local://upfiles/11504/B9DF6814D2424B5DA4C66FCF9B85E974.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/8/2013 7:05:48 PM)

Turn 77

Overall
Apart from a lot of recon flights, we do not do anything. Well, tbh we do move some of our PzAs around a little bit, especially since we consider a small offensive.
The USSR launch 1 attack and score a held. Quiet times indeed.

Losses
USSR : 17.000 troops, 122 guns, 12 AFVs, 155 AC.
Axis : 11.000 troops, 51 guns, 5 AFVs, 40 AC.

Partisans
12 out of 13 are delt with.

German Pools
Manpower : 91
Vehicles : 170.920
Armaments : 124.775
Hiwi : 14




[image]local://upfiles/11504/6B8EC9282B0B41AFA25E6C41018FD6F5.jpg[/image]



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 7:31:54 AM)

Turn 78

Overall
Sean moves some of his units up to my line, but does not attack. I say thank you, and attack all those divisions wandering around out of their forts. A total of 11 attacks results in 11 retreats. Next turn should see us attack the Crimea.

Losses
USSR : 26.000 troops, 417 guns, 20 AFVs, 183 AC.
Axis : 17.000 troops, 149 guns, 4 AFVs, 12 AC.

USSR units destroyed
1 Fortified Region

German units disbanded
1 Luftwaffe Field Division.

Partisans
4 out of 5 are delt with.

German Pools
Manpower : 6.921
Vehicles : 169.267
Armaments : 139.190
Hiwi : 5.632




[image]local://upfiles/11504/20BF23C53A6F4294BA0972BBC63F5ECC.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 9:15:22 AM)

i enjoy reading your aars very much! learn a lot from them!
btw, i want to know if Save/load allowed in your games?



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 3:32:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

i enjoy reading your aars very much! learn a lot from them!
btw, i want to know if Save/load allowed in your games?


Thank you [&o].
Tbh I have not thought about it, I do not even know if it is possible to save a game when playing server based games.
When I start my turn, I know I have the 30mins or so that I need to finnish it available, so I've never had the need to either save or load [:)]



Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 3:38:34 PM)

Turn 79

Overall
Sean allows me (there is no other explanation) to surround two cavalry divisions that operate far ahead of his lines. In Crimea he spotted my approaching panzers, and his defensive positions are now at about 50 CV, which means I can only achieve a 1:1 deliberate attack. I will give it one go to see if I reduce the forts, if not, then the attack must be aborted.
Sean launched 1 attack, scoring a held, while our 7 attacks (once more against USSR units in the open that move up to the line), result in 1 held, 5 retreats and 1 rout. The problem now is that the losses are aproxomately 1:1 when I score a retreat, and therefore cannot be considered a good idea for us.

Losses
USSR : 23.000 troops, 330 guns, 48 AFVs, 225 AC.
Axis : 18.000 troops, 110 guns, 7 AFVs, 11 AC.

German units disbanded
1 Luftwaffe Field Division.

Partisans
1 out of the 11 that start on the map remain.

German Pools
Manpower : 6.966
Vehicles : 168.108
Armaments : 144.260
Hiwi : 577




[image]local://upfiles/11504/83A42410F6D846C993EB40A1375546C7.jpg[/image]



carlkay58 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 4:32:14 PM)

quote:

Thank you .
Tbh I have not thought about it, I do not even know if it is possible to save a game when playing server based games.
When I start my turn, I know I have the 30mins or so that I need to finnish it available, so I've never had the need to either save or load



Yes you can save to the server in the middle of the game. It is the same procedure as to save a local or PBEM game.



mktours -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 5:25:16 PM)

sometimes, when a battle is so critical it is worthy to s/l in order to get a reasonable result, especially the last move to seal an encirclement. otherwise nobody willing to do big venture :-) but allow the random result is more honest of course:-)



carlkay58 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 8:42:01 PM)

If you load from the server and then load again too many times you trigger a flag on the server that can get you a nasty message and then possibly kicked off. I got the flag last year when my computer was overheating and re-booting in the middle of a turn.



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 10:38:36 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

sometimes, when a battle is so critical it is worthy to s/l in order to get a reasonable result, especially the last move to seal an encirclement. otherwise nobody willing to do big venture :-) but allow the random result is more honest of course:-)


To me that would be cheating, so that is a no go imo [:)]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/9/2013 10:59:18 PM)

Turn 80

Overall
Well, my panzers run like little girls after 1 attack from Sean, and the two cavalry divisions are free. We reform the pocket, but if he breaks it again, I will just let them run. It also seems that Sean launches two more attacks in the south just to tell me "see how easy it is to force your units to retreat". I am now certain this game will end in -44 with a USSR win.
5 USSR attacks results in 2 helds and 3 retreats, while our 7 attacks all give a retreat result.

Losses
USSR : 29.000 troops, 399 guns, 77 AFVs, 259 AC.
Axis : 23.000 troops, 211 guns, 16 AFVs, 8 AC.

German units disbanded
1 Luftwaffe Field Division.

Partisans
We take out 5 of the 6 that are on the map.

German Pools
Manpower : 23.753
Vehicles : 165.214
Armaments : 160.148
Hiwi : 16




[image]local://upfiles/11504/33EA7937AA47400AB5D7D2B4203FAD9F.jpg[/image]



Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/10/2013 12:42:21 AM)

When Red Army 2.0 comes into play you really have to choose your attacks well. Saying it only aids the USSR is only half true. You must think of the morale gains/losses from such attacks. While it won't raise yours a whole lot it keeps USSR morale low which helps slow down their drive, attack, and exploit.

Still, its best to only attack when other gains are realized as well. If you can correct a broken line or encircle then rout a mech or cavalry corps to damage its morale and trucks, thats a good time to mount an attack. Otherwise its probably best to save the men and guns for the defense.

While I believe you have surely lost the game don't be too afraid to fight till late game. Your line constantly gets shorter and the terrain gets nasty for the attacker, plus you get volks divisions which are almost better than regular infantry IMO...except for their lower morale.



mktours -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/10/2013 2:25:35 AM)

that is good, and should be so, as it offer a fair environment for both sides. for a game played between human, it is first law should be abide that they play under even conditions. what i was talking is presuming that both sides are allowed to do so.

good to learn this info from you, thanks.
quote:

ORIGINAL: carlkay58

If you load from the server and then load again too many times you trigger a flag on the server that can get you a nasty message and then possibly kicked off. I got the flag last year when my computer was overheating and re-booting in the middle of a turn.



mktours -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/10/2013 2:39:34 AM)

me too, if there is only one side doing so then it is obvious no good for the counterpart. It is crucial to make sure both sides get even hands. what i was talking was presuming that both sides were under the same conditions. To me, if my opponent could pull the best on me, that would be a good challenge to me and i would accept.[;)] After all, what the Germans did in 1941 owed great credit to venture and i would love to see what if things go to an extreme, but i do no want to cheat my opponent to get an upper hand, that is for sure.
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

sometimes, when a battle is so critical it is worthy to s/l in order to get a reasonable result, especially the last move to seal an encirclement. otherwise nobody willing to do big venture :-) but allow the random result is more honest of course:-)


To me that would be cheating, so that is a no go imo [:)]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/10/2013 5:07:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

me too, if there is only one side doing so then it is obvious no good for the counterpart. It is crucial to make sure both sides get even hands. what i was talking was presuming that both sides were under the same conditions. To me, if my opponent could pull the best on me, that would be a good challenge to me and i would accept.[;)] After all, what the Germans did in 1941 owed great credit to venture and i would love to see what if things go to an extreme, but i do no want to cheat my opponent to get an upper hand, that is for sure.
quote:

ORIGINAL: terje439


quote:

ORIGINAL: mktours

sometimes, when a battle is so critical it is worthy to s/l in order to get a reasonable result, especially the last move to seal an encirclement. otherwise nobody willing to do big venture :-) but allow the random result is more honest of course:-)


To me that would be cheating, so that is a no go imo [:)]


Terje



Some of the problem with this game as compared to irl, would be that the "super results" could be game changing, which is why I prefer chance to decide, not a "reroll". But I understand where you are coming from .



Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/10/2013 5:10:26 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

1. When Red Army 2.0 comes into play you really have to choose your attacks well.
2. Saying it only aids the USSR is only half true. You must think of the morale gains/losses from such attacks. While it won't raise yours a whole lot it keeps USSR morale low which helps slow down their drive, attack, and exploit.

3. Still, its best to only attack when other gains are realized as well. If you can correct a broken line or encircle then rout a mech or cavalry corps to damage its morale and trucks, thats a good time to mount an attack. Otherwise its probably best to save the men and guns for the defense.

4. While I believe you have surely lost the game don't be too afraid to fight till late game. Your line constantly gets shorter and the terrain gets nasty for the attacker, plus you get volks divisions which are almost better than regular infantry IMO...except for their lower morale.


1. Yup.
2. With such a high OOB for the USSR, I am betting that when the avalanche comes, I will not be able to use a lot of MPs to attack unfortunately [;)]
3. Agreed. Let us hope Sean attacks on a narrow front with his best units [:D]
4. I have, and I am not. Imo the issue is to constantly find new goals for yourself. Now it is to keep the Wehrmacht more or less intact until the end of -43. Then it will most likely change to survive until Summer -44 etc etc.



Terje



Lictuel -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/10/2013 7:14:48 PM)

Can you post some current OOB figures? I would really like to see those. Keep it up!



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/11/2013 4:58:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lictuel

Can you post some current OOB figures? I would really like to see those. Keep it up!


Sure, will do so when I do the turn (so gimme 20 mins [;)])


Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/11/2013 5:18:56 PM)

Turn 82

Overall
Deeply concerned now. Sean is able to throw my units back with too much an ease, meaning I end up out of forts. Not good. He is also very good at attacking in the "wrong" locations, forcing me to shuttle units to and forth. Really not good.
The USSR launched 10 attacks, scoring 5 helds and 5 retreats. Our 9 attacks fared better with 1 held and 8 retreats, but look at the losses report, and that paints a different picture.

Losses
USSR : 39.000 troops, 551 guns, 12 AFVs, 193 AC.
Axis : 30.000 troops, 333 guns, 26 AFVs, 21 AC.

German units disbanded
1 Luftwaffe Field Division.

Partisans
2 out of 11 remains on the map.

German Pools
Manpower : 54.594
Vehicles : 159.013
Armaments : 144.316
Hiwi : 3




[image]local://upfiles/11504/4F5653813FBE41CBB339030759264EEC.jpg[/image]



Lictuel -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/11/2013 9:44:40 PM)

Thanks for the OOB, I wanted to compare it to the game I'm playing right now. And compared to that game your numbers look doable for the axis. I have 9m men under arms as the soviet, against ~3.1m Germans and the assorted other axis.



Arstavidios -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/11/2013 10:50:34 PM)

I was at 7.07 million soviets to 3.55 million germans on turn 81.
the defensive game is interesting to play. It's about bleeding the bear more than he bleeds you




Wuffer -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/11/2013 11:32:06 PM)

Maybe the developers overlooked an toe-upgrade in the units fighting with sturmgeschutz's; early war batteries were much smaller with only 6-7 guns (due to their intended role as mobile arty supporting the infantry).

for example: http://stugiii.com/sturmartillerie/deploymentorganization.html



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/12/2013 3:51:05 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lictuel

Thanks for the OOB, I wanted to compare it to the game I'm playing right now. And compared to that game your numbers look doable for the axis. I have 9m men under arms as the soviet, against ~3.1m Germans and the assorted other axis.


Oh, my numbers are fine, the problem is that the USSR has never been bled in this game, and as such, those men are in exactly the kind of units Sean wants them to be [;)]


Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/12/2013 3:52:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arstavidios

I was at 7.07 million soviets to 3.55 million germans on turn 81.
the defensive game is interesting to play. It's about bleeding the bear more than he bleeds you





True, however eventually it becomes impossible as Axis casualties tends to climb later on (already have in this game, as a retreat of an USSR stack now only deals 1.5 times the casualties I take myself).


Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/12/2013 3:54:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Wuffer

Maybe the developers overlooked an toe-upgrade in the units fighting with sturmgeschutz's; early war batteries were much smaller with only 6-7 guns (due to their intended role as mobile arty supporting the infantry).

for example: http://stugiii.com/sturmartillerie/deploymentorganization.html



I think the problem is that the StuGs take too few casualties compared to other AFVs, and not enough units uses them.
As of now, I really wish for either;
a) a possibility for the Axis to change the production in various factories, aka tell factory "enter name here" to stop producing StuGs and start producing Panthers etc etc, or;
b) a possibility to alter the TOE of units to accommodate the pools. After all, Ad-Hoc units were widely used by the Germans in the later stages of the war.



Terje



terje439 -> RE: Laugh n a 1/2 - No Manstein63 (6/12/2013 3:58:40 PM)

Turn 83

Overall
This turn was better in some aspects, as the USSR did not launch a lot of attacks, however, my recon flights in the Crimea makes me wonder if Sean is going to launch a big attack out of the area.
4 USSR attacks resulted in 2 helds and 2 retreats, while our 7 attacks gave 6 retreats and 1 rout. Not too shabby, just too bad I lacked the MPs to move in and attack those gun units in the 2nd USSR line...

Losses
USSR : 33.000 troops, 406 guns, 37 AFVs, 175 AC.
Axis : 22.000 troops, 180 guns, 15 AFVs, 20 AC.

German units disbanded
2 Luftwaffe Field Divisions.

Partisans
2 out of 7 remains on the map.

German Pools
Manpower : 76.679
Vehicles : 156.903
Armaments : 166.806
Hiwi : 12




[image]local://upfiles/11504/E3D9C99A7BFB4EC6BE19C92EC09C2A6B.jpg[/image]



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