RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (Full Version)

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Denniss -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/1/2013 10:50:38 PM)

If your units are going low on old squad types I'd suggest to hold-off this game unless we have a new public Beta with a fix for this.



smokindave34 -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/1/2013 11:35:39 PM)

That is what I am trying to figure out - is a fix in the works for this?



Joel Billings -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 1:00:04 AM)

There is a public beta in the works that will reinstate the upgrade path for the rifle squads and allow you to make this apply to current games. It should be out within a day or two. I should say that I don't think this will impact your manpower piling up in the pool, but I could be wrong about that.



Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 1:03:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

Any updates on this issue.....I'm in January '44 and my pool continues to go up by 7,000 men each turn. By January '45 (if I make it that long) I'll have close to three quarters of a million men in the pool. I enjoy playing into '44/45 as the axis - most games don't make it past '42 and this issue is not going to help the cause of axis players determined to play on to the end.


My pool got up to 700k in 04/44 but has since dropped to 450k after a very generous random mud season allowing my armaments to catch up a little bit. However, 2/3 of all my mech units have 0 motor squads and so I just started disbanding them.

@Joel- Is this upgrade path for motor squads as well?



rmonical -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 2:20:03 AM)

quote:

There is a public beta in the works that will reinstate the upgrade path for the rifle squads


Any work on the 75 MM AT gun upgrade?



rmonical -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 2:25:29 AM)

quote:

Any updates on this issue.....I'm in January '44 and my pool continues to go up by 7,000 men each turn.


Is there a problem with 75 MM AT Guns? By early 1944, historically, the Germans had produced 10,000 of these. There should be no 37 MM guns out there.



Mehring -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 8:22:40 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rmonical

quote:

There should be no 37 MM guns out there.

Realy there should. As new equipment came on line, old stuff went to second line units. IIRC divisional AT battalion also had priority for upgrades over regimental AT companies. 37 and 50mm guns were never entirely phased out. 37mm had a short range muzzle loaded HEAT round developed for it to prolong its effectiveness. Slow ROF but very powerful.



Denniss -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 9:31:34 AM)

The squad upgrade fix is for rifle/mot/FJ and pioneer squads, mech squads already have an upgrade path. Sadly no (easy) fix for the 37mm ATG yet (usually blocking the 75mm ATG in units).



smokindave34 -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 11:05:34 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There is a public beta in the works that will reinstate the upgrade path for the rifle squads and allow you to make this apply to current games. It should be out within a day or two. I should say that I don't think this will impact your manpower piling up in the pool, but I could be wrong about that.


Thanks Joel - it will be interesting to see what effect this has on my current game.



Peltonx -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/2/2013 11:22:28 AM)

ORIGINAL: smokindave34


quote:

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

There is a public beta in the works that will reinstate the upgrade path for the rifle squads and allow you to make this apply to current games. It should be out within a day or two. I should say that I don't think this will impact your manpower piling up in the pool, but I could be wrong about that.


Thanks Joel - it will be interesting to see what effect this has on my current game.


ORIGINAL: morvael

Restoring upgrade paths has impressive effect.

No path:
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
2192 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
39438 men are added to Germany's front line units
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
6911 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
5723 men are added to Germany's front line units


Path:
REFIT REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
1806 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
60721 men are added to Germany's front line units
NORMAL REPLACEMENT SUB-SEGMENT
6911 men were returned to Germany's manpower pool
124439 men are added to Germany's front line units

1.We know what the effects will be, about 120,000 men that would be stuck in pools are at the front in a single turn. If you had the armament points and there were 400,000 men they would be back at front in a single turn.

2.The damaged caused by the conversion bug can not be patched in, it can only get the process moving again.

3. Of course the damage done can't be fixed in the way that lack of strength( 2 CV divisions that should be 8+CV,no rifle squads) forced the Germans on the defensive earlier and caused more lost combats, more casualties etc.. The fix will help for the future and in current games it will at least help not to increase the damage further.

The damage starts 11/42, but is not game changing until some times after June 43 depending on tempo. If the game is to Jan 44 its damage beyond repair. Players will have to roll back to June 43 if possible. Anything past that is really not a reflextion of player vs player as stated in point 3.




Peltonx -> RE: Late War armament issue back worse then before. (5/3/2013 12:27:13 PM)

Ran a short test no paths and with paths from June to end of August and 94,000 more men in OOB and 94,000 less in manpower pool. Also I looked at allot of infantry divisions and almost everyone is down 1 CV and some 2 CV. This is ai vs ai so the tempo is lower then H v H so thats the low end, so the effect is real.

I am doing a longer path test, but will take a day to get to Oct 43 and Jan 44 and several more to complete game.

I will run one from 11/42 to June 43 at some pt over the next week.

[&o]Grats on fix 2by3, play on!![sm=00000613.gif]

The manpower pool started at 500,000 ish with 1,000,000 arm pts no paths

With paths 400,000 ish manpower and 1,000,000 arm pts.

It is working, mybee not as fast as we would like, but working. I am guessing based on DV v A-games AAR that when mud hits the manpower will drop by 200000 to 300000 men. And the over all effect will be a wash with current ruleset. Yes sure things could work better, but with wite2 and witw ramping up this is what we have other then mybee a quicky to fix fuel issue and SHC 41 NM issue.

On going games really need to be rolled back to June aka turn 102, because the effect is a hit to CV.





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