RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (Full Version)

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Peltonx -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/28/2013 2:32:37 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

You're actually not in terrible shape here if you can keep gobbling up an average of a dozen divisions a turn until winter that's going to add up. Death by a thousand cuts. Sapper hung on a bit too long near the landbridge I think.

Your major problem is Leningrad. He can pretty much throw everything in the center now. You may have to contrive a long right hook here or at least the threat of one just to force him to keep sending stuff north of Moscow.


The key is space and in the north you will have none to give so start digging. You should have been over the Pskov turn 2, but it is what it is.

I would stop at Crimea land bridge and dig in and put your MT divisions there, you do not need that to open up.

Flaviusx is right pocket whatever you can every single turn and that just might save the summer.

I am also tring to come up with a counter to the new hold Leningrad at all cost strategy being used by SHC.

I am looking at driving hard for 4 turns then heading right for Moscow with all the armor and possibly putting I Corp in 2nd army. If you look at the manpower centers Leningrad is nothing. The Fins are usless by 43 anyways.





smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 11:46:36 AM)

Turn 11
Overall a decent turn with some good and some bad. The good - I was able to pocket an additional 10 divisions and 4 airborne brigades to try and keep the momentum going. The bad - I lost a lot of battles. Sapper continues to benefit from reserve activations and increases to his modified CV during combat. I'm at about an 84% winning percentage for the campaign so far which isn't terrible but below average.

The Finns continue to string Sapper out to force him to move some forces north - they are not his best units but I still don't have to deal with them.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/79D61835D0244927B1228109DDD6E372.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 11:49:24 AM)

Turn 11 - AGN

Still quiet here - I moved I corps NW to support trying to straighten out my lines. I expect trouble here during the blizzard if I'm strung out like this. Recon does show he is kind of thin here and maybe I can get something going although I expect when he sees the extra infantry Sapper will transfer some units to this area.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/B06DDE2C7ED1493EBE20537CCF4108FD.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 11:53:38 AM)

Turn 11 - Velike Luki

The biggest dissapointment of the turn. I started this turn planning to cut off VL with LVI corps and 3rd panzer group. Manstein did his part but 3rd panzer failed miserably. The unit in the level 1 fort next to my panzers held off 4 deliberate attacks by infantry and panzers. Reserve activations in 3 of those battles helped turn the tide.

The two new divisions I encircled next to Smolensk may be freed by an attack here from Sapper. That stack with an attack CV of 12 has me worried, hopefully it's just poor recon.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/DA86F4A99C5C49ACA3E6B20B544AA919.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 11:55:59 AM)

Turn 11 AGC

I used my panzers here to form another pocket further east using the river line as a shield for my motorized regiments. I really really don't like breaking down divisions but did so to close the pocket. The weak spot is LAH division - if Sapper attacks there I expect him to re-open supply to these units. One bonus is that of the 10 divisions I encircled this turn about half are cavalry divisions - they are gold to the Soviets. They are certainly very valuable in the blizzard but in my game versus "The Pro's" I feared the cavalry corps more than the Tank/Mech corps all the way to 1945.


[image]local://upfiles/27926/A3241025709444B2ACA3F5F0C414F535.jpg[/image]



Peltonx -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 11:58:57 AM)

terje439 had another 1941 disaster, but is in a position to get a draw.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3294378

You should closely follow his blizzard strategy and do the same in 42 as he did if possible. SHC skill levels might be different.

But clearly a huge pull back during blizzard will keep morale gained during 1941 and denying SHC morale gains. This means a much stronger then normal GHC Army come 1942.

My pull back vs MT was to far to the west, but it seems terje439 has perfected the move.

Of course if GHC is able to have a normal 1941 summer+ a pull back like this is not needed.

As long as Germany is able to conserve infantry morale during blizzard and deny SHC gains the game result should be a draw.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 12:04:10 PM)

Turn 11 AGS

My infantry keep plodding east. 11th army crosses the Dnepr and hopefully this move along with my moves in the Crimea can help get things moving here.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/251F8A8AC94D4EFABCCB40534283C4BB.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 12:07:12 PM)

Turn 11 Crimea

Sapper opens the pocket as expected but I re-establish it and add another Cavalry unit to it. I don't plan on getting tied up in the Crimea as there is nothing of value here so my panzers will start moving east next turn. The first partisan attack occurred this turn and cut one of my two rail lines to AGS - that will hurt my MP next turn.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/A0B0EADB292F43B4A1434D20A099FEB7.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 12:08:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

terje439 had another 1941 disaster, but is in a position to get a draw.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3294378

You should closely follow his blizzard strategy and do the same in 42 as he did if possible. SHC skill levels might be different.

But clearly a huge pull back during blizzard will keep morale gained during 1941 and denying SHC morale gains. This means a much stronger then normal GHC Army come 1942.

My pull back vs MT was to far to the west, but it seems terje439 has perfected the move.

Of course if GHC is able to have a normal 1941 summer+ a pull back like this is not needed.

As long as Germany is able to conserve infantry morale during blizzard and deny SHC gains the game result should be a draw.


Thanks Pelton - I'll go and look at Terje's AAR now. Sapper is an excellent player and I expect he will have a strong blizzard. He is very aggressive and hopefully I can use that against him post blizzard.



Peltonx -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 12:32:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

terje439 had another 1941 disaster, but is in a position to get a draw.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3294378

You should closely follow his blizzard strategy and do the same in 42 as he did if possible. SHC skill levels might be different.

But clearly a huge pull back during blizzard will keep morale gained during 1941 and denying SHC morale gains. This means a much stronger then normal GHC Army come 1942.

My pull back vs MT was to far to the west, but it seems terje439 has perfected the move.

Of course if GHC is able to have a normal 1941 summer+ a pull back like this is not needed.

As long as Germany is able to conserve infantry morale during blizzard and deny SHC gains the game result should be a draw.


Thanks Pelton - I'll go and look at Terje's AAR now. Sapper is an excellent player and I expect he will have a strong blizzard. He is very aggressive and hopefully I can use that against him post blizzard.



If you lose to much infantry morale during blizzard you will have a very hard time getting the 1000 AP + manpower centers needed to during 1942 for a draw.

you guys doing a SD game or standard? IF SD you better gain more space if not SD you have space to retreat.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:09:13 PM)

No sudden death in this game Pelton.

I opened up Sappers turn 11 and he launched 23 attacks of which 20 were succesfull. I looked at every battle result and his modified CV went up in every one. I'm not sure what to do differently. I picked 4 random battles - 3 wins and 1 loss. Here they are:



[image]local://upfiles/27926/3B6F6DCF1EB74695B032B11039D52A7A.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:10:57 PM)

Battle 2:



[image]local://upfiles/27926/C22A982A4F3A4BDFB0A43E4B74D42BE8.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:11:40 PM)

Battle 3:



[image]local://upfiles/27926/7012D02A67674608A493177552900A04.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:12:10 PM)

Battle 4:

[image]local://upfiles/27926/0069B2C85E3B41E7A6164BC681924D67.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:13:33 PM)

The one thing I see is that he was attacking units that were pretty fatigued in these results but not every attack was on a fatigued unit. Any thoughts/advice - if I'm losing 20+ battles now I'm in serious trouble.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:56:47 PM)

Here are two more with units that had a bit less fatigue.



[image]local://upfiles/27926/B2BC19AF088B4507BC91368E52FD969C.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 1:57:27 PM)

And another

[image]local://upfiles/27926/8C68D8D232814BC5A1B809E94112C763.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 2:01:31 PM)

Just keep pocketing stuff, there's not much else you can do.

His rifle divisions are going to start flipping over to the 41b TOE, and that will help your cause.



Peltonx -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 2:59:03 PM)

I do not see any GS in the battles.

You need to leave GS on that will help.

The major issue is you started out badly and your screwed.

TDV was also a master at winning 10-20 battles a turn, despite taking massive losses 4 million plus both games.

Sapper done at being a master of GHC because his fuel exploits have been nerfed, but he is still a master at exploiting attacks as SHC during 1941.

There are a few SHC that have this figured out and now with the morale design flaw they will have a field day attacking in 1941.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 3:03:49 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

Just keep pocketing stuff, there's not much else you can do.

His rifle divisions are going to start flipping over to the 41b TOE, and that will help your cause.


Thanks Flaviusx. Well I was hoping there was some miracle tactic that would help me out here but I guess not. Sapper tells me that no axis opponent has survived past 1942 against him - thats what my last opponent (The Pro's) also said. I seem to have a knack for picking out excellent opponents (or maybe they are excellent because they play against me?)!



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 3:06:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Pelton

I do not see any GS in the battles.

You need to leave GS on that will help.

The major issue is you started out badly and your screwed.

TDV was also a master at winning 10-20 battles a turn, despite taking massive losses 4 million plus both games.

Sapper done at being a master of GHC because his fuel exploits have been nerfed, but he is still a master at exploiting attacks as SHC during 1941.

There are a few SHC that have this figured out and now with the morale design flaw they will have a field day attacking in 1941.


I noticed that also. I have ground support set at 120. Maybe I should stop using the Luftwaffe to fuel up my panzers. I'm close enough to the rail lines now that I shouldn't need it anyway.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (6/30/2013 7:26:31 PM)

I think I figured out why I'm not gettting any ground support while on defense. Sapper has been bombing my airfields and I didn't pick up on it unitl now. One airbase was bombed 14 times last turn. I suspect all my fighters are getting used to defend these attacks and are not available for ground support.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 12:14:24 AM)

AGN - Turn 12

I was frustrated again by Sapper when I opened his latest turn. He won 20+ battles during his turn and opened one of the pockets. With all these wins I fully expect to be fighting off Guards units during the blizzard. During the last 4-5 turns I have not been leaving any units alone in clear territory as they are magnets for Soviet attacks - even with that tactic stacks of two German units in clear terrain seem to be a decent target for Sapper.

I corps was succesfull in a few attacks and have crossed the Luga. Not much to brag about but I'll take it. If Sapper keeps this area lightly defended I may try to sneak some panzers up there to take a last shot at Leningrad. I'll have to be sneaky though - if he see's them this area will be crawling with Soviet units.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/7A4BFE30D1EB498F89997A8AD57B01E3.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 12:18:15 AM)

Turn 12 AGC

LVI corps forms a pocket of 6 infantry divisions at VL. I expected Sapper to pull out of this area but he stays true to form and doesn't give up an inch. Totenkopf is reinforced with another Stug battalion to try and hold off the inevitable assault. I'm hoping Sapper goes after the panzer division I left stuck out too far east - if he attacks there first it will retreat with Totenkopf and add to the defensive CV. Based on previous results I don't expect to hold out here....

I clean up the Vitebsk pocket (with the exception of 1 tank division) and prepare to move east again.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/27E205F76E244283874CC43F5A07860F.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 12:21:56 AM)

Turn 12 AGC

Sapper really busted open this pocket during his turn but I believe I have it sealed up pretty tight now. Two panzer corps HQ are put in a position to perform a HQBU next turn. The plan is to rest/refit next turn and then move east with 4th armies help.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/CAE6B11B8E9B497A801AC328C2819D92.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 12:23:30 AM)

Turn 12 AGS

6th and 11th armies push forward across their respective rivers again - this time with three infantry divisions across. We'll see if 3 divisions can hold the line this time.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/2AB1DD2F797F467AAA5227E5D492B218.jpg[/image]



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 12:25:26 AM)

Turn 12 - Crimea

This pocket holds and the Rumanians clean up all the Cavalry division trapped. I rest the panzers while XXX corps moves across the Dnepr to support 1st panzer group.

[image]local://upfiles/27926/F61D8C36E981428BB8187A8B89D98B26.jpg[/image]



Michael T -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 12:59:18 AM)

I feel for you Dave. I have said it enough. Others probably disagree but the stock game is totally pro Soviet. For any kind of chance for winning you need some balancing HR or morale adjustments. Playing the stock game against good Soviet players is just asking for a belting. I don't think 2by3 will do anything really so it will be up to the players to sort it out pre game.



smokindave34 -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 1:04:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

I feel for you Dave. I have said it enough. Others probably disagree but the stock game is totally pro Soviet. For any kind of chance for winning you need some balancing HR or morale adjustments. Playing the stock game against good Soviet players is just asking for a belting. I don't think 2by3 will do anything really so it will be up to the players to sort it out pre game.


I enjoy a challenge - thats why I switched over to playing Axis, but this is getting out of hand. I've certainly made some mistakes in this game but nothing I would consider as major game changers. I'm going to stick it out through the blizzard and see what happens. Soon there may not be many axis players left [:(]. The best possible outcome for most axis players now is a draw.



timmyab -> RE: Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper) (7/1/2013 1:20:30 AM)

I must say that I admire your grit and determination, it's a great quality to have.I think I might have thrown all my toys out of the pram a while ago and be on to the sulking stage by now.
The problem is that we know what's coming.If the game from the first mud turn onwards was better balanced then these difficulties wouldn't matter so much, in fact it would be historically quite accurate.The trouble is that unless the Axis player does better that historical in 41, he's toast.Even then he's still probably toast.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T
Others probably disagree

If they've never played an Axis campaign against a good Soviet player then their opinions count for nothing with me.And that would be most of them I think.




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