RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG

RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (Full Version)

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mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 5:47:24 AM)
Saper have made a very good remark earlier in the AAR: "After clik start button players create other history - difference for each game - that is the best fun!" unfortunately many people are not see things in this way, I believe they don't like Guderian as well.[:)] Barbarossa is an very bad plan which was made by very poor leaders like Paulus, and did not involve Manstein or Guderian in the making. Yet many people still insisted that the GHC must comply with this plan. Thanks for the couters you made towards some of the remarks. I am afraid we could not convince them that there are other ways to do a game and these ways are nothing more than providing some new challenge,which could certainly be handle by many. quote: ORIGINAL: Michael T I am not the one with issues about what is going on here. I am merely providing a counter some of the remarks made by others. Having said that I agree the discussion should go elsewhere and leave this as an AAR. Not an axe grinding millstone.

Ketza -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 5:59:10 AM)
I am always open to new strategies in a game. As things evolve on the forum the game changes for the better or worse. Soon what were the most optimal moves become obsolete and fall by the wayside to be replaced with "omg I thought that was impossible" moves. My most favorite game on WITE was against 76mm back when the game first came out and I wrote my first AAR. Neither one of us were experts and many mistakes were made but the game was very fun and in the end almost historical until we quit due to major patch changes sometime in 1943. I will never forget that first blizzard as the Axis. I almost lost the entire 17th army only to come storming back in the spring. Awesome game back when we were noobies [:D]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 6:39:24 AM)
open-minded person like you certainly deserve to have more fun, [:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Ketza I am always open to new strategies in a game. As things evolve on the forum the game changes for the better or worse. Soon what were the most optimal moves become obsolete and fall by the wayside to be replaced with "omg I thought that was impossible" moves. My most favorite game on WITE was against 76mm back when the game first came out and I wrote my first AAR. Neither one of us were experts and many mistakes were made but the game was very fun and in the end almost historical until we quit due to major patch changes sometime in 1943. I will never forget that first blizzard as the Axis. I almost lost the entire 17th army only to come storming back in the spring. Awesome game back when we were noobies [:D]

Saper2229 -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 10:32:52 AM)
"The game is unbalance and greatly in favor of the GHC after T3" I not consent. The Soviet can make a good defence, I can play with you and see this.

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 10:55:14 AM)
Saper, when I said "the game", what I meant is this game( my game with Marquo).I agree that even after T3 in this game, the SHC still have chance to defend, but the SHC would have to do everything right, and must be better than the GHC. That is what I meant by "unbalance", the two player are not on a level field. But the game is certainly not over yet. I have no doubt that you can defend this opening very well, I myself could also defend it very well. many others should be able to defend it as well. I currently have 2 game on hand, it has reached my limit, I would be eager to take you on later if I got time. indeed it would be an honor for me to play with you as you are certainly way better than me.[:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Saper222 "The game is unbalance and greatly in favor of the GHC after T3" I not consent. The Soviet can make a good defence, I can play with you and see this.

Walloc -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 12:57:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mktours Saper have made a very good remark earlier in the AAR: "After clik start button players create other history - difference for each game - that is the best fun!" unfortunately many people are not see things in this way, I believe they don't like Guderian as well.[:)] Barbarossa is an very bad plan which was made by very poor leaders like Paulus, and did not involve Manstein or Guderian in the making. Yet many people still insisted that the GHC must comply with this plan. Thanks for the couters you made towards some of the remarks. I am afraid we could not convince them that there are other ways to do a game and these ways are nothing more than providing some new challenge,which could certainly be handle by many. quote: ORIGINAL: mktours open-minded person like you certainly deserve to have more fun, [:)] Lets look at some examples and general conception on these forums and rather typical when it comes to looking at the WWII. quote: Barbarossa is an very bad plan which was made by very poor leaders like Paulus, and did not involve Manstein or Guderian in the making So the asssumption is that and the this is usually the case when it comes to view on the german side of things. Germans underpreformed and could have done much better. Never they overpreformed and this could actually have gone worse and they never should have been as succesfull as they were. It isnt a concievble option. Same applies oppositely to the russian side. What if the russian stopped them long before historical is never the discussion. They could have had others in charge and be more prepared. Instead the instict is they actually overpreformed and if just little more of X would it have taken before the the russians would have surrendered. Typically said things on the forum or conceptions. I have np with thing in 41 going much better than historically for the axis side. Its just the players making better plans. Ppl need to play the game and from turn 1 on its up to the players. Russian run strategies need to be nerfed, Stalin was a fool and in charge. So apparently russian side cant choose their own strategies, but need to be under some degree of limits based on their political leadership. Hitler in 1941 interfered on 17 seperate occation as far i as know with the operational conduct of the german forces. Most famously in the Supplement to Directive No. 34 concerning the cancellation of the drive towards Moscow to make what evetually becomes the Kiev pocket Never ever have i heard this raised as a possibilty nor is it apparently some thing that should influence the german side/ability to unhindered choose their own paths of the game, from the same ppl saying that the russian sides should be limited in their ability to choose where and how to defend, directly or indirectly via tying forces down to defend to VPs. The russian side from 43 is a bulldozer and their offensives never stop, this need to be reined in. This might very well be true. Just as german side in 41 is able to use the same lack of logistical constraints to make it far beyond historical gains at times in 41. Where are the complaint from these ppl that this is just as unhistorical for the german in 41 as for russains in 43 44. Apparently its np as the russians gets their blizzard and again the conception is that germans doing better than historical is the expected thing. The explation the german can be stopped in 41 is often used. Apparently discounting the examples where they arent, and its never that for example as in the case of Pelton defences worth a mention that the russian bulldozer was be stopped. Not saying that the logistics shouldnt be looked at, they should, but the standart applies to the two sides isnt the same. Blizzard offensives. They need to be nerfed historiclly the germans didnt lose any formations the same should be true in game. Right again the conception that in this when and i use when not if on purpose the russian side does better than historical this needs to be reined in. The possibilty that the russian actually making it better than historic as in german formation could be lost is shouldnt be a possibilty. Which isnt the same as saying things shouldnt be changed but again the standart isnt the same. In the few cases where u actually have seen but its spoken of as it happens quite frequently that the russian make it to Berlin in 43(some one point me to the AARs) or in 44. This is unrealistic and a stop need to be put in place. Again Russian side doing better than historical, it needs to be reined in. We have seen a few number of AARs with axis side Auto Victories. In these cases things have clearly gone alot better for ther axis side in order to achieve that. No issues with that. Again we're back. Germans underpreformed historicly so when they overpreform its as it should be. Where as russian side overpreforms its "profe" the game is unbalanced. Its clear that the two sides isnt even remotely treated by the same standarts. Ppl inherit bias affects the way the view on discussions of game issues when things go better or worse for the 2 sides. The natural instinct is the germans underpreformed so when they do better its a question of ppl just playing the game and using better plans. Ppl should be allowed to do as they wish. Not that this is a conception that is in any way limited to this forums as said. This means discussions on gaming issues arent equal. The preconceived notions make it so it starts slanted toward one of particular sides. When objections are made vs german doing better they are "automaticly" countered by, yes but other side has X Y and Z so this is fine. One makes up for the other. Usually followed by a when discussing these on the russian side. We need to limit the discussion to this issue aka u cant look at the whole. So in short when ever the russian side overpreforms it just shows the game is unbalanced. If they underpreform it is as it should be or to be expected. Where as when ever the german side overpreforms, this is to be expected. If they underpreformed not that its really an option and again if so its just the sign of the game being unbalanced It couldnt be much clearer. These are the "open minded" persons? Not that ppl doesnt deserve fun nor that the game doesnt have issues for both sides. Kind regards, Rasmus

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 1:11:56 PM)
Hi Rasmus I am not a native english speaker, and I feel difficult to understand your comment, so I can't reply. sorry. [:)] Best regards Tours quote: ORIGINAL: Walloc quote: ORIGINAL: mktours Saper have made a very good remark earlier in the AAR: "After clik start button players create other history - difference for each game - that is the best fun!" unfortunately many people are not see things in this way, I believe they don't like Guderian as well.[:)] Barbarossa is an very bad plan which was made by very poor leaders like Paulus, and did not involve Manstein or Guderian in the making. Yet many people still insisted that the GHC must comply with this plan. Thanks for the couters you made towards some of the remarks. I am afraid we could not convince them that there are other ways to do a game and these ways are nothing more than providing some new challenge,which could certainly be handle by many. quote: ORIGINAL: mktours open-minded person like you certainly deserve to have more fun, [:)] Lets look at some examples and general conception on these forums and rather typical when it comes to looking at the WWII. quote: Barbarossa is an very bad plan which was made by very poor leaders like Paulus, and did not involve Manstein or Guderian in the making So the asssumption is that and the this is usually the case when it comes to view on the german side of things. Germans underpreformed and could have done much better. Never they overpreformed and this could actually have gone worse and they never should have been as succesfull as they were. It isnt a concievble option. Same applies oppositely to the russian side. What if the russian stopped them long before historical is never the discussion. They could have had others in charge and be more prepared. Instead the instict is they actually overpreformed and if just little more of X would it have taken before the the russians would have surrendered. Typically said things on the forum or conceptions. I have np with thing in 41 going much better than historically for the axis side. Its just the players making better plans. Ppl need to play the game and from turn 1 on its up to the players. Russian run strategies need to be nerfed, Stalin was a fool and in charge. So apparently russian side cant choose their own strategies, but need to be under some degree of limits based on their political leadership. Hitler in 1941 interfered on 17 seperate occation as far i as know with the operational conduct of the german forces. Most famously in the Supplement to Directive No. 34 concerning the cancellation of the drive towards Moscow to make what evetually becomes the Kiev pocket Never ever have i heard this raised as a possibilty nor is it apparently some thing that should influence the german side/ability to unhindered choose their own paths of the game, from the same ppl saying that the russian sides should be limited in their ability to choose where and how to defend, directly or indirectly via tying forces down to defend to VPs. The russian side from 43 is a bulldozer and their offensives never stop, this need to be reined in. This might very well be true. Just as german side in 41 is able to use the same lack of logistical constraints to make it far beyond historical gains at times in 41. Where are the complaint from these ppl that this is just as unhistorical for the german in 41 as for russains in 43 44. Apparently its np as the russians gets their blizzard and again the conception is that germans doing better than historical is the expected thing. Where as if the same happens to the russian side it needs to be reined in. Not saying it necesarriy shouldnt be but the standarts isnt the same. Blizzard offensives. They need to be nerfed historiclly the germans didnt lose any formations the same should be true in game. Right again the conception that in this when and i use when not if on purpose the russian side does better than historical this needs to be reined in. The possibilty that the russian actually making it better than historic as in german formation could be lost is shouldnt be a possibilty. Which isnt the same as saying things shouldnt be changed but again the standart isnt the same. In the few cases where u actually have seen but its spoken of as it happens quite frequently that the russian make it to Berlin in 43(some one point me to the AARs) or in 44. This is unrealistic and a stop need to be put in place. Again Russian side doing better than historical, it needs to be reined in. We have seen a few number of AARs with axis side Auto Victories. In these cases things have clearly gone alot better for ther axis side in order to achieve that. No issues with that. Again we're back. Germans underpreformed so when they overpreform its as it should be. where as russian side overpreforms its "profe" the game is unbalanced. Its clear that the two sides isnt even remotely treated by the same standarts. Ppl inherit bias affects the way the view on discussions of game issues when things go better or worse for the 2 sides. The natural instinct is the germans underpreformed so when they do better its a question of ppl just playing the game and using better plans. Ppl should be allowed to do as they wish. Not that this is a conception that is in any way limited to this forums as said. This means discussions on gaming issues are equal. The preconceived notions make it so it starts slanted toward one of the sides. When objections are made vs german doing better they are "automaticly" countered by, yes but other side has X Y and Z so this is fine. One makes up for the other. Usually followed by a when discussing these on the russian side. We need to limit the discussion to this issue aka u cant look at the whole. So when ever the russian side overpreforms it just shows the game is unbalanced. If they underpreform it is as it should be or to be expected. Where as when ever the german side overpreforms, this is to be expected. If they underpreformed not that its really an option and again if so its just the sign of the game being unbalanced It couldnt be much clearer. These are the "open minded" persons? Not that ppl doesnt deserve fun nor that the game doesnt have issues for both sides. Kind regards, Rasmus

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 1:59:35 PM)
T5 Luki-after recon Marquo had done a good job in his T4, a division which didn�t be discovered by my recon last turn emerged from the north area and occupied the retreat hex for the 36 motorize division, before another 6 divisions launched a successful counterattack and cut the bridgehead. As we can see from the picture, the two successive being cut off has cause much damage to the supply. 14th motorize division was completely out of fuel. The 7th panzer division only got 33MP, despite having more fuel in the tank. The spearhead division had been surrounded by a handful of units and there were several road blocks on the road. Fortunately the distance wasn�t very long and the units in the bridgehead are all very good units and they were commanded by the best commander. [image]local://upfiles/44785/83743C57E4DA49F19015E13502268EEF.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 2:07:03 PM)
T5north- after recon The successful counterattack is a double edge sword for the SHC, all the troops in the Poskov region remain unmoved. However successful the counter-attack would be, they would not hold off the massive assault of literally two entire army group which would be massed to there soon. [image]local://upfiles/44785/18181A25538748F1AC49B694BC37BB65.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 2:13:03 PM)
T5south-after recon The big pocket has been broken again. The north one held. [image]local://upfiles/44785/DB9F987F474D4ECEBFE438DE02151F9F.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 2:18:03 PM)
T5 d-town after recon The MP of all the units there are very low, all the fuel has been spent after they completed the mission last turn. [image]local://upfiles/44785/9172E63B45F24D7FB521AA6E9809493C.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 2:21:14 PM)
T5 14th panzer corps after recon indeed, all the air drop went to 14th pz corps last turn, which still got much fuel in reserve. [image]local://upfiles/44785/47B995354CF04863B559117C45272AAC.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 2:46:58 PM)
T5 luki-end of turn with the assistance of infantry and 57pz corps, 56pz finally cut a corridor and linked up with the spearhead. the back up troops would arrive soon. [image]local://upfiles/44785/E586BCD3E20D4B41A72D46B59F5042BF.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 2:57:37 PM)
T5north-center end of turn the SHC has react to the thrust by retreating in the center. but they have to take longer distance and the terrain is also hindering their march, so they would be lagging of the German maneuver unless they are via railing, which in turn would put much pressure on the rail capacity which is much needed in the south to evacuate industry. [image]local://upfiles/44785/96D6FE14F7264E1FB277DBA8970808A7.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 3:04:12 PM)
T5south all the motorized troops in the D-town area are in rest, the 14th panzer crossed the river and in position, preparing to assault stalino next turn. [image]local://upfiles/44785/DF9F5BFB4DE342A2BA2F1CEEB5DB9488.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/16/2013 3:11:08 PM)
T5 14Pz end of turn all the Kg51 bombers has been sent to north last turn, so the south get less air supply. all of them has been assigned to 14pz The soviet troops in this area is very thin. [image]local://upfiles/44785/A448848087714202893A2BCFAF9DAF88.jpg[/image]

mmarquo -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/17/2013 12:38:43 AM)
I rest astounded that surrounded, cut off units suffer no logistical penalty concerning stocks of supplies on hand. They would break column and assume a defensive perimeter...this consumes fule/supplies; in this game no penalty; the stocks on hand remain... I will post a situation shot in a day or so after MT has pondered the next move. Marquo

Schattensand -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/19/2013 12:05:26 AM)
I playtested that opening against myself. The north: Up to turn 2 take Velik Luki. Why not? For me more a good start against Moskwa than to a big sweep north. From turn 3 on what you do is hasardous. Create a pochet and just to let it stay alive sacrifice 2 PAs and 1.5 HGs is sheer nonsense. Your opponent will see by turn3 what you plan and since there is a one line attack only he could concentrate fully one that attack and by turn 8 or nine you will face lev 3 forts in dense wood before you reach the last RR. and the danger to be cut of is always there. Not at all my taste. The south: Very good. Taking Proskurov with a regiment would be more mine but essentially all units west of Proskurow are doomed. In fact you catch 2/3 of SW and 3/4 of S. Not much SHP can do against it. But not defending Kiew and the Dnepr line is anyway a nono. If SHP can make a stand than there. The SHP can so easily see what GHP plans in the south and if he defends the Dnepr it is a hard work to cross the river. If GHP does not activate Romania he definately will link PA 1 at turn 3 and cut the south in two parts. So SHP has to guard the Dnestr with all brigades from SW he can manage to slow down XIV PC on its way to Northeast Odessa. And he has to rail out SW units and S tanks at turn2 as possible. I tried to open the Romanian RR by displacing the 2 Cav Brigades at turn 1, I've seen somebody doing it, but no chance. Still some units will find the way to RR in the south to be evacuated in turn 2. Even if you dont make it in turn 2 to Kiev or even east Dnepr that opening will cost the Sov side much more troops than a simple Romania activation turn 1 opening. What I not like are the big pockets in your game that always break. I wont create such balagan or try to not do. And I would not neglect Pripjet. Facit: 2 very good turns, but from turn3 on not my play.

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/19/2013 4:09:14 PM)
Hi Marquo in this case, the temporarily being cut off troops certainly had faith in their leadership, they knew they would be linked up with by the back up troops and they instead adopted attacking position.[:)] I have sent you my T10 in last Saturday. please check the mail. I would wait for your situation shot before posting my report of T6. quote: ORIGINAL: Marquo I rest astounded that surrounded, cut off units suffer no logistical penalty concerning stocks of supplies on hand. They would break column and assume a defensive perimeter...this consumes fule/supplies; in this game no penalty; the stocks on hand remain... I will post a situation shot in a day or so after MT has pondered the next move. Marquo

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/19/2013 4:15:22 PM)
it is not a oneline attack, you would see what it is after several turns.we are currently after German T10 now. I didn't push all the way towards Lenningrad, rather, it was a surprise. my initial aim was Moscow. I would make a detail explanation of my strategy and underlying reasoning at appropriate time. thanks for your comments,[:)] quote: ORIGINAL: Schattensand I playtested that opening against myself. The north: Up to turn 2 take Velik Luki. Why not? For me more a good start against Moskwa than to a big sweep north. From turn 3 on what you do is hasardous. Create a pochet and just to let it stay alive sacrifice 2 PAs and 1.5 HGs is sheer nonsense. Your opponent will see by turn3 what you plan and since there is a one line attack only he could concentrate fully one that attack and by turn 8 or nine you will face lev 3 forts in dense wood before you reach the last RR. and the danger to be cut of is always there. Not at all my taste. The south: Very good. Taking Proskurov with a regiment would be more mine but essentially all units west of Proskurow are doomed. In fact you catch 2/3 of SW and 3/4 of S. Not much SHP can do against it. But not defending Kiew and the Dnepr line is anyway a nono. If SHP can make a stand than there. The SHP can so easily see what GHP plans in the south and if he defends the Dnepr it is a hard work to cross the river. If GHP does not activate Romania he definately will link PA 1 at turn 3 and cut the south in two parts. So SHP has to guard the Dnestr with all brigades from SW he can manage to slow down XIV PC on its way to Northeast Odessa. And he has to rail out SW units and S tanks at turn2 as possible. I tried to open the Romanian RR by displacing the 2 Cav Brigades at turn 1, I've seen somebody doing it, but no chance. Still some units will find the way to RR in the south to be evacuated in turn 2. Even if you dont make it in turn 2 to Kiev or even east Dnepr that opening will cost the Sov side much more troops than a simple Romania activation turn 1 opening. What I not like are the big pockets in your game that always break. I wont create such balagan or try to not do. And I would not neglect Pripjet. Facit: 2 very good turns, but from turn3 on not my play.

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 12:33:05 PM)
T6 luki-after recon The spearhead has been beat out of the city, and it seems the SHC has determine to destroy it as it could easily just rout it out. The SHC has adopted carpet defense here, but just look at the CV of both side one can conclude that it is impossible to prevent the back up German troops to link up with the spearhead. [image]local://upfiles/44785/C38B4C5075E440199DD0A1B9E6686D51.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 12:39:30 PM)
T6 center-north after recon The Pskov army remains unmoved. [image]local://upfiles/44785/D15E37DB33E640E38688E46E0E6C24A4.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 12:41:50 PM)
T6 Luki end of turn the carpet defense has been wiped out by the back up troops, the isolated spearhead has been linked up with and a strong bridgehead has been created. the mass troops of literally two entire army group has been massed up to this bulge. some preparing attacks has been made to clear several light wood hexes in the SE direction. the several panzer & motorize divisions resting in the rear are put under the commend of 39Pz corps and it did a HQ build up this turn. [image]local://upfiles/44785/5887805837054666AA39B2C969506475.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 12:55:13 PM)
T6 north end of turn [image]local://upfiles/44785/13442C5229FC412FB9FE72FE8D602734.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 12:56:36 PM)
T6 south end of turn The SHC has run away in the north area, so the only thing for me to do is to use the infantry to flip the hexes. All the panzer units in the D-town region remain in rest. The mega pocket has been opened again last turn so I need to reseal it and herd a good unit which come to rescue into the pocket. The powerful 14 pz corps easily brushed aside the checker board defense and all the 3 hexes of Stalino has been captured. [image]local://upfiles/44785/A8BA75A791DE4EDB937807CA0F9FEDFE.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 1:04:57 PM)
T6 stalino end of turn we could see in this picture that the units in the D-town region remain unmoved and see how much MP they have after two turns of resting. [image]local://upfiles/44785/9CE77E06F6344129B32EB9A3B06040D0.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 1:11:33 PM)
The LUKI break through had forced the SHC to rail a lot of troops to react, as a result, many industry in the south has been captured, here is the list of captured industry in each turn. The captured industry T6 Stalino 3 vehicle 14 armaments 5 heavy industry Makeevka 3 armaments 3 heavy industry Gorlovka 3 armaments 3 heavy industry Gomel 2 heavy industry Zaporozeye( locked in T6) 4 heavy industry T2 Kiev 4 armaments 4 heavy industry T3 Odessa 3 armaments 3 heavy industry Kremencrug 1 armament 2 heavy industry T4 Kirovgrad 3 heavy industry Nikolaev 3 heavy industry Krivoil rog 3 heavy industry D-town 9 armament 5 heavy industry

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/30/2013 1:14:20 PM)
I would update this AAR one turn each day to allow space for comments.

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 12:34:43 PM)
T7 liki after recon the pskov army remains unmoved. the MP of the pz & motorize units are as follows: 7th pz 20mp ( have MP reserved after reach the bridgehead last turn) 3 mot 1mp 36mot 1mp 8pz 7mp 1st Pz 34mp( mp reserved last turn) 12pz 33mp(mp reserved last turn) 20 mot 47mp (air dropped) come to the attacking position from rear last turn 14mot 47mp (air dropped) come to the attacking position from rear last turn 6th pz 39mp(air dropped) 19pz 19mp 39pz corps (did HQ build up last turn) 60mot 48mp 18mot 49mp 18pz 48mp 20pz 48mp with the reinforcement of all the KG51 bombers, the air drop from 2 army Groups could only fill the tanks of 2 motorize divisions and half fill a pz division. I certainly didn't have magic to keep the units which fought hard in the last 2 turns to move forever. [image]local://upfiles/44785/7A1F5428932A410A90FB3E2CD1B354DB.jpg[/image]

mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 1:07:06 PM)
T7 stalino after recon the 14pz corps has been cut off. given they captured 20 armament in the 3 city hexes last turn, the sacrifice is well-worthwhile. the cities have plenty of supplies in stored, that is the good news for the troops there. we could see that they have fuel reserved last turn. the units in the D-town region didn't receive any air-drop after they reach there in T4. If the air drop so powerful, why should I rest so many pz & motorized units there for 3 turns? [image]local://upfiles/44785/798663AF95F741A09F321B177A916743.jpg[/image]

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