RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (Full Version)

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mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 1:28:56 PM)

T7 Kiev region after recon
there are 2 pz divisions and 1 motorize division rested in the Kiev region since T4
they received most of the air drop in the south, after 3 turns, they finally got their tanks refilled.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/A22F9E5997194F5B82FF1AF3D0E873C3.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 1:44:50 PM)

T7 Gomel after recon
I anticipated that the soviet troops would withdraw in full scale at some time, so I reserved a good motorize division and a Pz HQ in the Gomel region. This turn it would drive into the no man land and capture the undefended Bryansk after the infantry clear the weak cover in the front line.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/B6AD6D83F0EE4CC6807492F8A079DCD9.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 1:48:48 PM)

T7 north end of turn
The powerful 7th Panzer division attacked from the bridgehead and clear the river bank, 2 elite infantry corps crossed the river, blew a hole in the defense, the high MP motorize units drove through, cut deep into the rear.
[image]local://upfiles/44785/F920FA289D3D49F6AF4001070E93FE73.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 1:57:20 PM)

T7 Vyazma end of turn
The troops massed in the bugle released the massive power and made a big break through. 39pz corps then cut deep into the rear, Vyazma has been captured.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/8FB597D13BCD4B2384B3A7FBEA0AE9B9.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 2:02:47 PM)

T7 bryansk end of turn
the reserved motorized division drove into the no man land and captured the undefended Bryansk, all the industries in the two hexes has been captured.
Bryansk
4 armament
4 heavy industry

Ordezhoni
4 armament
3 heavy industry


[image]local://upfiles/44785/B5978CFEC7CE4AC9B2578A428B66163A.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 2:05:42 PM)

T7 north-center end of turn
the aftermath of two entire army groups stroke out from the bulge.
[image]local://upfiles/44785/D8E17B29581842ACB898A433FA1A62DA.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (8/31/2013 2:11:02 PM)

T7 south end of turn
The 14 pz corps went to the 3 cities hexes to take cover.
the motorize units in the D-town area start to maneuver to the attacking position. A pz corps in position to do a HQ build up next turn.
[image]local://upfiles/44785/11CB5E3BCDDD4BFA87372945FE0B695A.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 3:37:22 PM)

T8 North end of turn

the Leningrad rail line has been cut.
Leningrad(locked)
7 armament
20 BA-10
6 vehicle
8 heavy industry
vsevolzhsky(locked)
5 armament
[image]local://upfiles/44785/621647551ADD40878496B70B28178C58.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 3:43:57 PM)

T8 north-center end of turn
The break through continued, the massed troops pushed all the way through the weak defense, Kaluga has been captured.
Kaluga (captured industry)
7 armament
1 armament
2 heavy industry


[image]local://upfiles/44785/ACB900E45F804AADACEF59738331A321.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 3:50:57 PM)

T8 center-2 end of turn
The vast land in this area has been sealed off.
Mogilev (captured industry)
3 heavy industry

[image]local://upfiles/44785/1625DF5DC837402CA1F345FDA41EF00E.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 3:54:36 PM)

T8 south end of turn
The motorized units start to maneuver to the 2 wings, a pz corps did a HQ build up this turn in the north wing.
[image]local://upfiles/44785/1D36C43333A64475BAC66887A916D933.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 3:58:07 PM)

T8 stalino end of turn
The powerful 20CV 3rd pz division has been rested in the rear position since T5, the 10th Pz division has moved to the left hex of it.
14pz corps still have some fuel in stored. Generally I take great effort to save every drop of fuel for the critical battles, even the Mp of infantry is carefully preserved. I knew I am not the expert of logistics as I am so new to the game, so the only thing I could to is to save as much Mp as possible for the critical battles.
we can see in this picture that the 20CV division is not even moving to attacking position, simple because I am waiting the north wing, and the more closer to the rear, the more fuel it could draw from the rail head. If the air drop so powerful, why should I take so much care to save MPs?

[image]local://upfiles/44785/374D68B4991A4B0EBA6131F062F0EB41.jpg[/image]



Disgruntled Veteran -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 4:06:06 PM)

I just don't see how you are getting away with this. I would love an opponent to advance like this so I could sever your lines. I know its always easy to armchair quarterback so maybe I'm just ignorant but you should be paying dearly for such an advance.



Flaviusx -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 4:22:11 PM)

There is a way to respond to this and indeed utterly wreck Mktour's entire strategy. But I think the best thing to do here is to not get into this sort of game in the first place.

Marquo, if I were forced to deal with this nonsense I would do the following: place a large body of cavalry deep in his rear and go raiding. You could launch massive raids SW of Pskov with a dozen or more divisions, backed up by enough infantry to brush aside the weak flank security (in many cases non existent) facing them. They could rip apart his rail lines hundreds of miles in his rear. This could be aided by a thrust from the Pripyet north by another group of cavalry. He's so far ahead of these areas now that it would be difficult for him to respond to this.

In the south I don't see any good prospects for this working, alas. But you could halt him in his tracks north of the Pripyet.

Air supply won't save him when the rail lines have been trashed all the way back into Belorussia and he's at Moscow. Basically, I think you're being a bit passive here, no doubt stunned by the sheer ridiculousness of what's going on, but there is a counter to it if you're willing to get into the muck here. On the whole, I don't blame you for saying the hell with it.



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 4:34:06 PM)

it is not a static war, [:)] it is dynamic war, if someone knows perfectly what his opponent would move 5 turns in advance, then he would win perfectly. that is the point.
Thanks for your comments, the first I got.[:)] you didn't see the beginning of turn, since I got no comments so I skip the biginnig pictures, the SHC has been retreating in full scale so I don't need to guard the flank with much troops.
We can see in the attached picture(T7end) that the reinforcement keep flowing in, if the SHC are to attacked the flank in T7, those troops would lose( the leningrad rail line would be cut in T8). and they would not reach my rail head. the rail head is at a safe distance. Again, it is a dynamic war. In dynamic war, measures are taken based on the situation, rather than by doctrines.
Guderian is always criticized by others as too dare devil, by the way.
quote:

ORIGINAL: Disgruntled Veteran

I just don't see how you are getting away with this. I would love an opponent to advance like this so I could sever your lines. I know its always easy to armchair quarterback so maybe I'm just ignorant but you should be paying dearly for such an advance.



[image]local://upfiles/44785/4BEEE55DBF5943B6B6C54D65474A0539.jpg[/image]



Flaviusx -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/1/2013 4:45:21 PM)

Mktours, Guderian couldn't do what you are doing here.

People aren't commenting much here because most of us get what you are doing and how. We just think it's an abuse of game mechanics. This is the part you do not understand or even seem willing to acknowledge. I don't believe you are very familiar with historical logistics, otherwise you'd be embarrassed by what you're doing here. Either that or you simply do not care.




mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 1:43:10 PM)

Since the LUKI story has ended, and I only got one comment from DV, I have decided to jump to the last turn.
T15 north end of turn
In the north, There are about 13-15 units in the pocket. The German troops are marching towards Moscow, the Finish would take over the front.
[image]local://upfiles/44785/EE48BE1098E24E988571B87D82DCE76B.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 1:48:25 PM)

T15 moscow end of turn


[image]local://upfiles/44785/D373201DBA484A9A8D1EF7B33E282ABE.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 1:51:03 PM)

T15 South moscow end of turn


[image]local://upfiles/44785/3D20BDC9CE954227A49C6183DE8BCB21.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 1:54:04 PM)

T15 41pz corps end of turn
41pz corps did a HQ build up 2 turns ago, and we could see it still have much fuel in stored.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/D4568D41E671468D9F25C8E6D590C7D3.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:07:12 PM)

T15 5th Pz

The 5th Pz, 2nd Pz and 2nd ss Mot B are put under the commend of 40 pz corps, and they were just off train this turn, we could see that the 5th Pz division have MP reserved and it still have much fuel in stored.
The 40 Pz corps HQ is in position to do a HQ build up if needed.
[image]local://upfiles/44785/CBCC617AE5CE44A9914E7FF531B75E8F.jpg[/image]



Callistrid -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:09:41 PM)

Something is really bad with the game if the snake front line line, and turn-by-turn encircled army group stategy could be usefull.
The soviet winter is still unrealistic, but this type of action... brrrr...



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:22:27 PM)

Hi Callistrid,
Thanks for your comments, I am a bit puzzle about what you are commenting, could you explained a bit more?
Thanks.
I am still editing the posts, so I would come to reply you later.



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:29:04 PM)

T15 7th Pz division
There are 3 divisions under the commend of 56 Pz corps which frog jump to the front from the rear this turn, they didn't take part in the battle this turn, and have MP reserved, they are significantly under strength and didn't need as much fuel as before. Before they move to the attacking position for the assault next turn, they received air drop.

[image]local://upfiles/44785/C828EE94293A4717BEC3F10D842E0501.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:35:02 PM)

T15 center end of turn

[image]local://upfiles/44785/908807019F804C09925B95F4E022074D.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:38:02 PM)

T15 center-south end of turn


[image]local://upfiles/44785/BDC8D6EEACCA4ABB958A3D444F16C88D.jpg[/image]



mmarquo -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:39:16 PM)

"Something is really bad with the game if the snake front line line, and turn-by-turn encircled army group stategy could be usefull.
The soviet winter is still unrealistic, but this type of action... brrrr..."

MK,

Callistrid is commenting that the type of advance you are successfully making (pushing forward like an arrow or snake) without regard to flanks or advancing a front demonstrates that the game mechanic is ridiculous. And as bad as the blizzard is, what you are doing (as allowed by the game) leaves him cold - that is, he is more put off by what you have accomplished than the winter blizzard.

Cheers,

Mark [:)]



Callistrid -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:40:52 PM)

Hi mktours.

No offense pal, but i'm a great ww2 fan, and it's hard to see a front line like what you post it.
Ok, it's a game, with his game mechanics, and rules.



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:43:50 PM)

T15 south1 end of turn

[image]local://upfiles/44785/DBC2960A6E4A42949E6D0E82ECCEB286.jpg[/image]



mktours -> RE: Mktours(Ger)VsMarquo(Sov)41CG (9/2/2013 2:46:59 PM)

T15 south2 end of turn


[image]local://upfiles/44785/D05F1EB079DC4A6EAF16EA952CD1AC90.jpg[/image]



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