RE: Consequence of the Soviet side

RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (Full Version)

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Peltonx -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 8:04:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Michael T quote: The game is so screwed up right now far worse then 1 to 2 years ago. Sad to say, but its really not worth playing right now. You can close your eyes and win so easily now as Russian player-game is a complete waste of time in its current state. This is not opinion but simply fact in AAR after AAR Not sure how a game can be worse off then 2 years ago, but it clearly is. +1 I am not even sure now the 1:1 > 2:1 option will help. Something has gone badly wrong with the game in the last 12 months. Meanwhile I am enjoying AGW. No the game is working- morveal fixed so many screw ups. 2by3 has been tring to counter German MP's for 2.5 yrs buffing SHC- now that GHC side is WAD, SHC needs some major nerfs and I mean major.

Callistrid -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 8:05:47 PM)
Personally, I belive the best sollution is: 1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october 2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...) 3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket

Michael T -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 8:58:15 PM)
quote: SHC needs some major nerfs and I mean major. Problem is it ain't going to happen my friend. Callistrid your point 1 is very true. I advocated similar many moons ago. But ignored. WITE is the only game on the War in Russia I have seen where Soviet INF can out speed German INF. A big problem is Soviet units follow even the most complex orders perfectly in 1941.

M60A3TTS -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 9:10:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Callistrid Personally, I belive the best sollution is: 1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october 2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...) 3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket You can modify #2 as you wish on the transport section of game settings.

Callistrid -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 9:15:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: M60A3TTS quote: ORIGINAL: Callistrid Personally, I belive the best sollution is: 1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october 2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...) 3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket You can modify #2 as you wish on the transport section of game settings. True :)

hfarrish -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 10:12:51 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Callistrid Personally, I belive the best sollution is: 1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october 2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...) 3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket I think number 1 is extremely problematic (the other two probably ok) - with 8 MPs the Soviet player cannot attack at all unless their units start the turn adjacent to the Germans. This very often is not the case and will lead to a grossly ahistoric (and incredibly boring for the Red) '41 that I guarantee absolutely no Soviets will play once it is tested. If anything the Soviets should have lower odds of succeeding in attacks (getting rid of the 1:1=2:1 rule and possibly other changes) and a GREATER ability to make them (i.e. a lower deliberate attack MP cost). This would do far more to simulate actual eastern front conditions - multiple bloody failures for the occasional success - than effectively cutting off the ability to counterattack meaningfully at all.

Callistrid -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 11:00:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hfarrish quote: ORIGINAL: Callistrid Personally, I belive the best sollution is: 1. lowering the soviet movement points to max 8 in 41, 12 in blizzard turns, and 16 after 42 october 2. Double of the rail cost (all types, including industry, troops...) 3. In GC41 the 4 AGS panzer's movement set to 25, avoiding the Lvov pocket I think number 1 is extremely problematic (the other two probably ok) - with 8 MPs the Soviet player cannot attack at all unless their units start the turn adjacent to the Germans. This very often is not the case and will lead to a grossly ahistoric (and incredibly boring for the Red) '41 that I guarantee absolutely no Soviets will play once it is tested. If anything the Soviets should have lower odds of succeeding in attacks (getting rid of the 1:1=2:1 rule and possibly other changes) and a GREATER ability to make them (i.e. a lower deliberate attack MP cost). This would do far more to simulate actual eastern front conditions - multiple bloody failures for the occasional success - than effectively cutting off the ability to counterattack meaningfully at all. Without the lvov pocket the soviet has enough power to something.

hfarrish -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/23/2014 11:57:09 PM)
Stopping power yes...but with no ability to plan counterattacks other than lucking into a reactionary slap at German units that the German player consents to leave nearby, it would be a profoundly passive defense, ahistoric and unfun. I don't disagree that things need more work, but I don't think this is the solution.

loki100 -> RE: Consequence of the Soviet side (1/24/2014 7:10:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Michael T quote: SHC needs some major nerfs and I mean major. Problem is it ain't going to happen my friend. Callistrid your point 1 is very true. I advocated similar many moons ago. But ignored. WITE is the only game on the War in Russia I have seen where Soviet INF can out speed German INF. A big problem is Soviet units follow even the most complex orders perfectly in 1941. Except that MP is not the only issue, its also cost to enter enemy hexes/ZoCz etc (ie a consequence of morale). As hfarrish says, lowering MP removes the means to make any attacks. So MP in this game has to be set in terms of differential costs and that is unique. Your second point has some merit, especially at the sub-game scale. The biggest problem in co-ordinating at division and above was getting everything in place in time. That leads to the problem of a 1 week turn with no interim time segments. I like hfarrish's idea of making attacking easier for the Soviets but increasing the losses for doing so.

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