RE: Sad, sad, sad.......

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bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/17/2015 1:30:43 AM)
We all got off of the original post sad sad sad, lets go back to it I like to hear the comments and feelings of where we are, where we want to go and will we ever make it, speak your mind not what you think other posters want to hear, not that I feel you would ever do that [:(] Bo

paulderynck -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/17/2015 2:50:53 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian Just one simple thing - skipping a request for intercept when a naval force simply leaves port and stops in the first sea zone, as is done in face-to-face play - would speed things up. Any little thing to improve the speed of play is something that would ultimately make the game more popular. I have no issue with the game doing that and don't want it changed. FTF in our group we always ask the other guy if he wants to intercept even when we have zero intention of continuing onward. Why? - because that's one more of his units in the sea zone that will be disorganized. Many times a player will be tempted to intercept when he knows success means a good chance for a favorable split. Many times that same player won't search even if you don't, when he thinks he'd be disadvantaged. Gamers and optimizers - that's us.

brian brian -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/17/2015 4:32:09 AM)
sure, there are times when there is a reason to ask. but there are times not to ask. if each side has six CLs and several more heavy ships in the West Med already, who cares? sometimes, the answer is 100% obvious. so if you could turn that on and off, that would be great. if you really want World in Flames to be played over a computer by a lot of people, using the computer to smooth the process some would definitely help. the game system has so many hang points already. If the Brits, French, Germans and Italians all go to sparring in the Med, do you really want all four Major Powers to be online simultaneously just to do naval movement? later in the game, when there are well over a thousand pieces in play, do you really care about the third Bounce Combat generated out of a big air battle to ground strike a key river line hex? I know, Bounce Combat not part of MWiF yet. but I hope MWiF is eventually used to improve the game.

Centuur -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/17/2015 4:34:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: brian brian sure, there are times when there is a reason to ask. but there are times not to ask. if each side has six CLs and several more heavy ships in the West Med already, who cares? sometimes, the answer is 100% obvious. so if you could turn that on and off, that would be great. if you really want World in Flames to be played over a computer by a lot of people, using the computer to smooth the process some would definitely help. the game system has so many hang points already. If the Brits, French, Germans and Italians all go to sparring in the Med, do you really want all four Major Powers to be online simultaneously just to do naval movement? later in the game, when there are well over a thousand pieces in play, do you really care about the third Bounce Combat generated out of a big air battle to ground strike a key river line hex? I know, Bounce Combat not part of MWiF yet. but I hope MWiF is eventually used to improve the game. I don't think one can make the program decide for you. There are examples when a large naval force is intercepted by a small force, only to force your opponent to choose a sea box for the moving fleet... How to program these decisions? How to know when the player doesn't want to intercept or not? That's difficult. Same with all kind of other decisions. The human mind doesn't act the same as a computer. Personally, the main advantage of MWIF is that it will enforce the rules and do the bookkeeping for the players regarding oil use, reorganisation, supply, control, etc. etc. The downside is indeed the fact that the computer is "stupid" and that you need to click a couple of times more. I don't think there is a good solution for this. And it will become even worse than it is now. Look at the things which will happen when the intelligence optional rule gets coded. For every die roll made, the computer needs to know whether or not a reroll will be asked for. That's a lot of extra clicks too and the reason why this rule isn't coded now. What about "en route" interception. Every 4 hexes a bomber moves, the opponents have to be asked whether or not he wants to intercept if he's got FTR's in range. That's an awful load of extra clicks too...

Centuur -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/17/2015 4:46:17 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo We all got off of the original post sad sad sad, lets go back to it I like to hear the comments and feelings of where we are, where we want to go and will we ever make it, speak your mind not what you think other posters want to hear, not that I feel you would ever do that [:(] Bo Where we are? That's easy: we have a game which is roughly working the way it should in solitair and hot seat. It has still fatal bugs in it which are getting cleared slowly (very slowly) in those modes. However, the basic game isn't even finished for those modes of play. Netplay is slowly, but surely being worked on too. The rest is waiting in the mothballs, where on some items work has already been done where on others there is nothing coded. Will we ever make it? I don't know. That's a crystal ball for me. If Steve were a 30 year old programmer in good health, I would say yes. But he isn't. So let's hope Steve stays around for a long time and his health will improve (he's working on that). But it will still take a long, long time before everything will be ready, even with a healthy Steve around. There is so much work left in this game. Where is a second programmer when you need him (or her)? But there aren't resources for that available...

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/17/2015 5:06:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: bo We all got off of the original post sad sad sad, lets go back to it I like to hear the comments and feelings of where we are, where we want to go and will we ever make it, speak your mind not what you think other posters want to hear, not that I feel you would ever do that [:(] Bo Where we are? That's easy: we have a game which is roughly working the way it should in solitair and hot seat. It has still fatal bugs in it which are getting cleared slowly (very slowly) in those modes. However, the basic game isn't even finished for those modes of play. Netplay is slowly, but surely being worked on too. The rest is waiting in the mothballs, where on some items work has already been done where on others there is nothing coded. Will we ever make it? I don't know. That's a crystal ball for me. If Steve were a 30 year old programmer in good health, I would say yes. But he isn't. So let's hope Steve stays around for a long time and his health will improve (he's working on that). But it will still take a long, long time before everything will be ready, even with a healthy Steve around. There is so much work left in this game. Where is a second programmer when you need him (or her)? But there aren't resources for that available... Ah we are back on track, thank you centuur, I think [:(] Bo

Zorachus99 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 1:13:51 AM)
Are you feeling depressed Bo? Or do you have Beta forum inside knowledge to make me cry?

jc4751 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 2:13:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: bo We all got off of the original post sad sad sad, lets go back to it I like to hear the comments and feelings of where we are, where we want to go and will we ever make it, speak your mind not what you think other posters want to hear, not that I feel you would ever do that [:(] Bo Where we are? That's easy: we have a game which is roughly working the way it should in solitair and hot seat. It has still fatal bugs in it which are getting cleared slowly (very slowly) in those modes. However, the basic game isn't even finished for those modes of play. Netplay is slowly, but surely being worked on too. The rest is waiting in the mothballs, where on some items work has already been done where on others there is nothing coded. Will we ever make it? I don't know. That's a crystal ball for me. If Steve were a 30 year old programmer in good health, I would say yes. But he isn't. So let's hope Steve stays around for a long time and his health will improve (he's working on that). But it will still take a long, long time before everything will be ready, even with a healthy Steve around. There is so much work left in this game. Where is a second programmer when you need him (or her)? But there aren't resources for that available... Ah we are back on track, thank you centuur, I think [:(] Bo I don't want to start a flame war, but to be honest, this thread is starting to sound like a thread to take some shots at Steve over the quality and future of the game. It's one thing to have some concerns about shelling out some money, and what the state of the game is going to be in a few years, but it sounds like you're intentionally looking for the bad side of where things stand. I'm planning to buy the game whenever the IRS decides to let me have my own money back. As I said before, I have my own thoughts on the state of things. But, I would also guess that, unlike a lot of people posting here, I've been a lifelong hardcore gamer, and am used to dealing with what is utter garbage hitting the market, vaporware, cash grabs, early access games that never really make it, and so on. Go drop $15 on Starbound and ask yourself where the game is in that turkey. Or $10 on Project Zomboid and see a game that's a real development train wreck. Maybe Quarantine, which had a bug in it that you didn't find until the game was almost completed. Or Minecraft, where the world I'd been working on with my son got completely hosed after a month or two of play. Part of the reason I mostly spend my spare time game coding is simply because I've gotten burned out on the current state of the PC gaming market, and would rather create than play. As a professional dev, I would probably take a look at the WiF ruleset and maybe take a different approach from what Steve did, but that's under the hood. And, he's the one who decided to pick this beast up and run with it, and my hat's off to him for that. He also has a lot of experience under his belt, and it's not a field anyone stays in if they aren't any good. They get weeded out, eventually. I'm sure he'd like to have help, but it's damn difficult to get help for what is essentially a project of passion. I dunno. That's my own two cents. Keep on coding, Steve, and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this beast soon. (edit -- another awesome bug was in the very last mission of the PC port of GTAIV -- clearly, no one in their QA department ever bothered to test the whole game all the way through and find out a human being can't mash a space bar 100 times a second)

pzgndr -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 12:31:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 As a professional dev, I would probably take a look at the WiF ruleset and maybe take a different approach from what Steve did, but that's under the hood. And, he's the one who decided to pick this beast up and run with it, and my hat's off to him for that. He also has a lot of experience under his belt, and it's not a field anyone stays in if they aren't any good. They get weeded out, eventually. I'm sure he'd like to have help, but it's damn difficult to get help for what is essentially a project of passion. +1 Steve has the rare combination of WiF experience, programming experience, AI experience, and the passion to make it happen. It's a complicated enough game to start with, but throw in all of the optional rules combinations and NetPlay synch issues and everything else, then it's amazing he's gotten this game to where it is. Yeah, we would all like for him to work faster, but it is what it is. At least the project continues to move forward and continues to improve. At some point, sooner or later, it will be essentially done. Never done done, but close enough, and then there will be necessary updates for new O/S and such, and who knows what. It would be nice if Matrix finds some way to attract "assistant programmers" to help the lone wolf developers, to help provide some support where practical and be a back-up if necessary. For example, continued EiA development is pretty much dead in the water since Marshall Ellis has stopped working on the code (maybe temporarily, maybe not?), and other games bite the dust eventually when they hit the point of no return. But some games like CEAW manage to allow the community to contine development (e.g., the Grand Staregy mod project), and other games like TOAW get a new programmer to update the old workhorse. Point is, like EiA, we do not need to watch MWiF get 90-95% completed and then bite the dust. That would just suck, again.

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 3:10:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zorachus99 Are you feeling depressed Bo? Or do you have Beta forum inside knowledge to make me cry? I am depressed I will not lie to you, I have never lied to anyone on these posts, I have no inside knowledge about any impending doom of MWIF if that is what you are referring to. I am fed up with the time this game has taken and the release of the game on Nov 7th. Yeah yeah Bo we heard you many times, chill out Bo. [;)] I do know that Steve is doing the best he can with an extremely difficult program, and just might solve the problems with the game. Zorachus99 I am a pessimist, always was, "what can go wrong, will" My problem is we are hanging on the health and the ability of one very lone programmer. Hoping for a break through on Netplay so we can get to a subject that I am selfishly interested in the AI. I hope to be around to beta test the AI someday but who knows. Bo

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 3:47:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: bo We all got off of the original post sad sad sad, lets go back to it I like to hear the comments and feelings of where we are, where we want to go and will we ever make it, speak your mind not what you think other posters want to hear, not that I feel you would ever do that [:(] Bo Where we are? That's easy: we have a game which is roughly working the way it should in solitair and hot seat. It has still fatal bugs in it which are getting cleared slowly (very slowly) in those modes. However, the basic game isn't even finished for those modes of play. Netplay is slowly, but surely being worked on too. The rest is waiting in the mothballs, where on some items work has already been done where on others there is nothing coded. Will we ever make it? I don't know. That's a crystal ball for me. If Steve were a 30 year old programmer in good health, I would say yes. But he isn't. So let's hope Steve stays around for a long time and his health will improve (he's working on that). But it will still take a long, long time before everything will be ready, even with a healthy Steve around. There is so much work left in this game. Where is a second programmer when you need him (or her)? But there aren't resources for that available... Ah we are back on track, thank you centuur, I think [:(] Bo I don't want to start a flame war, but to be honest, this thread is starting to sound like a thread to take some shots at Steve over the quality and future of the game. It's one thing to have some concerns about shelling out some money, and what the state of the game is going to be in a few years, but it sounds like you're intentionally looking for the bad side of where things stand. I'm planning to buy the game whenever the IRS decides to let me have my own money back. As I said before, I have my own thoughts on the state of things. But, I would also guess that, unlike a lot of people posting here, I've been a lifelong hardcore gamer, and am used to dealing with what is utter garbage hitting the market, vaporware, cash grabs, early access games that never really make it, and so on. Go drop $15 on Starbound and ask yourself where the game is in that turkey. Or $10 on Project Zomboid and see a game that's a real development train wreck. Maybe Quarantine, which had a bug in it that you didn't find until the game was almost completed. Or Minecraft, where the world I'd been working on with my son got completely hosed after a month or two of play. Part of the reason I mostly spend my spare time game coding is simply because I've gotten burned out on the current state of the PC gaming market, and would rather create than play. As a professional dev, I would probably take a look at the WiF ruleset and maybe take a different approach from what Steve did, but that's under the hood. And, he's the one who decided to pick this beast up and run with it, and my hat's off to him for that. He also has a lot of experience under his belt, and it's not a field anyone stays in if they aren't any good. They get weeded out, eventually. I'm sure he'd like to have help, but it's damn difficult to get help for what is essentially a project of passion. I dunno. That's my own two cents. Keep on coding, Steve, and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this beast soon. (edit -- another awesome bug was in the very last mission of the PC port of GTAIV -- clearly, no one in their QA department ever bothered to test the whole game all the way through and find out a human being can't mash a space bar 100 times a second) You will not start a flame war jc4751 we have had enough of them, wish you would post more though as you seem to make sense [;)]You said that you have not purchased the game yet, but the game has been out one and a half years and surely if you felt the game was right you would have found the money some wheres to play this computerized version of the board game WIF[;)] But just maybe you should talk to some of the people here who plunked down $100 US and a lot more depending what country the game was sent to, to play a game which was released unplayable [:(] I sat and thought about your comment "taking shots at Steve" and that truly bothered me, I had to ask myself if I am doing that. In around about way I guess I am but do not want to because he is all we got. I know how I feel and wanted to see how other posters felt. I let my feelings be known on many other posts other then sad sad sad. I took my shots [arguments] on the beta forums at Steve but rarely got an answer as he is too much of a gentlemen to get into a word brawl with me. Most of it was over communications and the AI not being done first, rarely over programming which I have no knowledge of. My passion is the forums, where anyone can express their opinions whether positive or negative about the state of MWIF. I personally love the give and take as expressed by all the members here. Several months before the release of MWIF the forums were, well lets just say kind of dead, I admit it upset me as most of the interested people had left, I then asked Steve if I could do a minor AAR on Guadalcanal and he said yes. Was it a good AAR I am not sure but the forums lit up like a Christmas tree and inspired me when I finished that AAR to do the "Fall Gelb" Fascist Tide scenario. Other members of the beta team started AAR's and the Forums bloomed with comments and interest. I was happier than a pig eating ****[&o] In these last several months most of the people are again gone, they want to get on with their life, other games, family matters etc. When warspite posted "sad, sad, sad" the forums came alive slightly, it showed me the feelings of a lot of posters from down in the dumps, to Steve please complete this game. It made me feel good to see some people were still around, it did not matter to me whether they criticized Steve, Matrix, or praised Steve for all his effort or Matrix for keeping the game on their books, it was people posting again, I want the game finished whenever possible, and with netplay, the AI, hotseat and possibly PBEM done and done right. I cannot express my feelings anymore than what I just posted, I have no animosity against Steve, Erik or Matrix, none, how could I as they want the game completed as much as I do. But in the end I just want to play MWIF! Bo

76mm -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 5:41:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 I would also guess that, unlike a lot of people posting here, I've been a lifelong hardcore gamer... Uh, OK, not sure why you think that most people who bought this game aren't hardcore gamers? Who do you think would spend this much on a game? Maybe I'd take your opinion more seriously if you'd bought the game, much less about it a year and half ago, upon release, like many of us.

Centuur -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 8:12:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: Centuur quote: ORIGINAL: bo We all got off of the original post sad sad sad, lets go back to it I like to hear the comments and feelings of where we are, where we want to go and will we ever make it, speak your mind not what you think other posters want to hear, not that I feel you would ever do that [:(] Bo Where we are? That's easy: we have a game which is roughly working the way it should in solitair and hot seat. It has still fatal bugs in it which are getting cleared slowly (very slowly) in those modes. However, the basic game isn't even finished for those modes of play. Netplay is slowly, but surely being worked on too. The rest is waiting in the mothballs, where on some items work has already been done where on others there is nothing coded. Will we ever make it? I don't know. That's a crystal ball for me. If Steve were a 30 year old programmer in good health, I would say yes. But he isn't. So let's hope Steve stays around for a long time and his health will improve (he's working on that). But it will still take a long, long time before everything will be ready, even with a healthy Steve around. There is so much work left in this game. Where is a second programmer when you need him (or her)? But there aren't resources for that available... Ah we are back on track, thank you centuur, I think [:(] Bo I don't want to start a flame war, but to be honest, this thread is starting to sound like a thread to take some shots at Steve over the quality and future of the game. It's one thing to have some concerns about shelling out some money, and what the state of the game is going to be in a few years, but it sounds like you're intentionally looking for the bad side of where things stand. I'm planning to buy the game whenever the IRS decides to let me have my own money back. As I said before, I have my own thoughts on the state of things. But, I would also guess that, unlike a lot of people posting here, I've been a lifelong hardcore gamer, and am used to dealing with what is utter garbage hitting the market, vaporware, cash grabs, early access games that never really make it, and so on. Go drop $15 on Starbound and ask yourself where the game is in that turkey. Or $10 on Project Zomboid and see a game that's a real development train wreck. Maybe Quarantine, which had a bug in it that you didn't find until the game was almost completed. Or Minecraft, where the world I'd been working on with my son got completely hosed after a month or two of play. Part of the reason I mostly spend my spare time game coding is simply because I've gotten burned out on the current state of the PC gaming market, and would rather create than play. As a professional dev, I would probably take a look at the WiF ruleset and maybe take a different approach from what Steve did, but that's under the hood. And, he's the one who decided to pick this beast up and run with it, and my hat's off to him for that. He also has a lot of experience under his belt, and it's not a field anyone stays in if they aren't any good. They get weeded out, eventually. I'm sure he'd like to have help, but it's damn difficult to get help for what is essentially a project of passion. I dunno. That's my own two cents. Keep on coding, Steve, and I'm looking forward to getting my hands on this beast soon. (edit -- another awesome bug was in the very last mission of the PC port of GTAIV -- clearly, no one in their QA department ever bothered to test the whole game all the way through and find out a human being can't mash a space bar 100 times a second) You will not start a flame war jc4751 we have had enough of them, wish you would post more though as you seem to make sense [;)]You said that you have not purchased the game yet, but the game has been out one and a half years and surely if you felt the game was right you would have found the money some wheres to play this computerized version of the board game WIF[;)] But just maybe you should talk to some of the people here who plunked down $100 US and a lot more depending what country the game was sent to, to play a game which was released unplayable [:(] I sat and thought about your comment "taking shots at Steve" and that truly bothered me, I had to ask myself if I am doing that. In around about way I guess I am but do not want to because he is all we got. I know how I feel and wanted to see how other posters felt. I let my feelings be known on many other posts other then sad sad sad. I took my shots [arguments] on the beta forums at Steve but rarely got an answer as he is too much of a gentlemen to get into a word brawl with me. Most of it was over communications and the AI not being done first, rarely over programming which I have no knowledge of. My passion is the forums, where anyone can express their opinions whether positive or negative about the state of MWIF. I personally love the give and take as expressed by all the members here. Several months before the release of MWIF the forums were, well lets just say kind of dead, I admit it upset me as most of the interested people had left, I then asked Steve if I could do a minor AAR on Guadalcanal and he said yes. Was it a good AAR I am not sure but the forums lit up like a Christmas tree and inspired me when I finished that AAR to do the "Fall Gelb" Fascist Tide scenario. Other members of the beta team started AAR's and the Forums bloomed with comments and interest. I was happier than a pig eating ****[&o] In these last several months most of the people are again gone, they want to get on with their life, other games, family matters etc. When warspite posted "sad, sad, sad" the forums came alive slightly, it showed me the feelings of a lot of posters from down in the dumps, to Steve please complete this game. It made me feel good to see some people were still around, it did not matter to me whether they criticized Steve, Matrix, or praised Steve for all his effort or Matrix for keeping the game on their books, it was people posting again, I want the game finished whenever possible, and with netplay, the AI, hotseat and possibly PBEM done and done right. I cannot express my feelings anymore than what I just posted, I have no animosity against Steve, Erik or Matrix, none, how could I as they want the game completed as much as I do. But in the end I just want to play MWIF! Bo Are the forums dead? I don't think so. Sure, the number of posts in this forum (apart from the bugs, AAR's and the occasional important topic) isn't that large. Now, I've got that little AAR running (which happens to be mothballed due to a game breaking bug at the moment). For that, I keep a little side show (I'm really fond of statistics), where I keep track of the number of hits that AAR gets between the posts I make. I'm on a average of about 65 hits each time I've posted an update here where people have looked at it between the updates. I believe that gives you enough information of the number of people who visit this forum each day. So the forums are not dead...

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 8:45:57 PM)
I see centuur, but If I made up a list of all the players who do not post everyday or once a week compared to the way they used to post I think I might have a point, the posts are dead [:(] Of course there are people who watch your AAR with great admiration for your effort. Every day in the past the posts were booming but as things dragged on they left. centuur they are gone, will they come back of course if the game gets resolved. Bo

etsadler -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 8:51:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo I see centuur, but If I made up a list of all the players who do not post everyday or once a week compared to the way they used to post I think I might have a point, the posts are dead [:(] Bo Are people really supposed to keep posting with the same frequency over time, forever? When something is new to you you will have a lot of questions and comments. As time goes on those are answered, so no need to post them again. I will say that there are not a lot of new posters, which suggests that there are not a lot of new sales, which, given the state of the game, is hardly surprising.

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 8:56:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA quote: ORIGINAL: bo I see centuur, but If I made up a list of all the players who do not post everyday or once a week compared to the way they used to post I think I might have a point, the posts are dead [:(] Bo Are people really supposed to keep posting with the same frequency over time, forever? When something is new to you you will have a lot of questions and comments. As time goes on those are answered, so no need to post them again. I will say that there are not a lot of new posters, which suggests that there are not a lot of new sales, which, given the state of the game, is hardly surprising. I did not start this post I was just agreeing with warspites sad sad sad post. Everything he said in his initial post and follow up posts are correct and that is why I agree with him. Please reread them as they are well said. Please RickInVA [go Cav's[;)]] this comment is in no way disrespectful to you, but you have posted 51 times over 4 years so I agree with your comment from your number of posts but the posters that I am talking about have thousands of posts, many posts three, four or even ten times a day. You come into the forums ask a question get your answer and leave as do many other posters which is okay with me, But the people I am talking about are dedicated MWIF and WIF posters and they are rarely on anymore. Good lord maybe I am wrong but it is just the way I see it. Bo

etsadler -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 11:09:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA quote: ORIGINAL: bo I see centuur, but If I made up a list of all the players who do not post everyday or once a week compared to the way they used to post I think I might have a point, the posts are dead [:(] Bo Are people really supposed to keep posting with the same frequency over time, forever? When something is new to you you will have a lot of questions and comments. As time goes on those are answered, so no need to post them again. I will say that there are not a lot of new posters, which suggests that there are not a lot of new sales, which, given the state of the game, is hardly surprising. I did not start this post I was just agreeing with warspites sad sad sad post. Everything he said in his initial post and follow up posts are correct and that is why I agree with him. Please reread them as they are well said. Please RickInVA [go Cav's[;)]] this comment is in no way disrespectful to you, but you have posted 51 times over 4 years so I agree with your comment from your number of posts but the posters that I am talking about have thousands of posts, many posts three, four or even ten times a day. You come into the forums ask a question get your answer and leave as do many other posters which is okay with me, But the people I am talking about are dedicated MWIF and WIF posters and they are rarely on anymore. Good lord maybe I am wrong but it is just the way I see it. Bo No disrespect taken! While I may not post so often, I visit this site almost every day and read almost all the posts and AARs. I don't often feel the need to chime in my two cents worth. Often all one gets for that is grief, so I spare myself that. Also don't generally feel the need to make an agreeing post when someone else already made my point (or something close to it). I take your point about the mega posters (although I didn't read the OP that way myself), but doesn't the point of diminishing returns apply there too? Even if you will make 20 posts on a topic where I would only make 1, there still has to be a topic. If there is nothing new to talk about (i.e. developments in the game), then why would people post? While MWiF is certainly not in its end-state, it is a mature game from a release date - current date perspective. I'm certainly not trying to be disagreeable, but I do wonder what level of activity would have avoided the "sad, sad, sad" to begin with, and how likely that level of activity is. While not saying this is the case, if you have an unreasonable expectation you are likely to be frequently disappointed.

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 11:15:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA quote: ORIGINAL: bo quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA quote: ORIGINAL: bo I see centuur, but If I made up a list of all the players who do not post everyday or once a week compared to the way they used to post I think I might have a point, the posts are dead [:(] Bo Are people really supposed to keep posting with the same frequency over time, forever? When something is new to you you will have a lot of questions and comments. As time goes on those are answered, so no need to post them again. I will say that there are not a lot of new posters, which suggests that there are not a lot of new sales, which, given the state of the game, is hardly surprising. I did not start this post I was just agreeing with warspites sad sad sad post. Everything he said in his initial post and follow up posts are correct and that is why I agree with him. Please reread them as they are well said. Please RickInVA [go Cav's[;)]] this comment is in no way disrespectful to you, but you have posted 51 times over 4 years so I agree with your comment from your number of posts but the posters that I am talking about have thousands of posts, many posts three, four or even ten times a day. You come into the forums ask a question get your answer and leave as do many other posters which is okay with me, But the people I am talking about are dedicated MWIF and WIF posters and they are rarely on anymore. Good lord maybe I am wrong but it is just the way I see it. Bo No disrespect taken! While I may not post so often, I visit this site almost every day and read almost all the posts and AARs. I don't often feel the need to chime in my two cents worth. Often all one gets for that is grief, so I spare myself that. Also don't generally feel the need to make an agreeing post when someone else already made my point (or something close to it). I take your point about the mega posters (although I didn't read the OP that way myself), but doesn't the point of diminishing returns apply there too? Even if you will make 20 posts on a topic where I would only make 1, there still has to be a topic. If there is nothing new to talk about (i.e. developments in the game), then why would people post? While MWiF is certainly not in its end-state, it is a mature game from a release date - current date perspective. I'm certainly not trying to be disagreeable, but I do wonder what level of activity would have avoided the "sad, sad, sad" to begin with, and how likely that level of activity is. While not saying this is the case, if you have an unreasonable expectation you are likely to be frequently disappointed. "Spare yourself the grief" [:D] I cannot argue with that one.[;)] My feelings are I hate to see the decline but understand it. There is no hint of you being disagreeable but if you were so what, isn't that what the posts are for. There has to be a topic, how true, and at the moment we have no real topic, but I still like to post even if it is about nothing[:(] One other thing you got 148 replies on your House Rule post which was a very good topic even though I do not know much about house rules as I have never played the WIF board game. And warspite got 106 posts and still counting over a lot of nothing [Seinfeld] [:D] so you never know, you know I am just kidding warspite, very good post. Bo

jc4751 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 11:51:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: 76mm quote: ORIGINAL: jc4751 I would also guess that, unlike a lot of people posting here, I've been a lifelong hardcore gamer... Uh, OK, not sure why you think that most people who bought this game aren't hardcore gamers? Who do you think would spend this much on a game? Maybe I'd take your opinion more seriously if you'd bought the game, much less about it a year and half ago, upon release, like many of us. I thought about your post some on the way home from work. I should've amended it to say "lifelong hardcore computer/video gamer." It's been my experience that most computer wargamers do not really stray that far from wargaming when it comes to computer gaming, or are even dismissive of other types of computer gamers (rightly or wrongly, that's a whole other discussion). The issues which have come up with regard to MWiF and Steve's work on it are really not alien to the larger gaming world and it seems like what has been produced is in line with one guy working on coding a complex game would be. Look at some of the AAA titles which have been duds, and the majority of work with those isn't in defining complex game logic... As for length of experience with the game, that seems sort of irrelevant WRT this discussion, but if I need to list where I'm coming from...I messed around with the original CWiF back when it was still available. I played Pacific War to death, back in the day, and Second Front before that, along with a ton of Harpoon. I picked up ASL when it was originally released and bought the original Squad Leader with money I saved from mowing lawns. Remember Typhoon of Steel on the C64? The glory days of SSI? I used to have a pretty complete AH/VG collection, before I realized I didn't have the time and space to play it all. I don't know. I'd like to think it would be possible -- as an impending customer -- to state what I see is right and wrong with MWiF as an objective outsider. Sure, I'd like to already be playing the game. I don't have the dinero yet. Does that disqualify me from being able to comment on the situation, the way I see it? If so, fine, and I'll go back to lurking.

jc4751 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/20/2015 11:55:59 PM)
quote: You will not start a flame war jc4751 we have had enough of them, wish you would post more though as you seem to make sense [;)]You said that you have not purchased the game yet, but the game has been out one and a half years and surely if you felt the game was right you would have found the money some wheres to play this computerized version of the board game WIF[;)] But just maybe you should talk to some of the people here who plunked down $100 US and a lot more depending what country the game was sent to, to play a game which was released unplayable [:(] I sat and thought about your comment "taking shots at Steve" and that truly bothered me, I had to ask myself if I am doing that. In around about way I guess I am but do not want to because he is all we got. I know how I feel and wanted to see how other posters felt. I let my feelings be known on many other posts other then sad sad sad. I took my shots [arguments] on the beta forums at Steve but rarely got an answer as he is too much of a gentlemen to get into a word brawl with me. Most of it was over communications and the AI not being done first, rarely over programming which I have no knowledge of. My passion is the forums, where anyone can express their opinions whether positive or negative about the state of MWIF. I personally love the give and take as expressed by all the members here. Several months before the release of MWIF the forums were, well lets just say kind of dead, I admit it upset me as most of the interested people had left, I then asked Steve if I could do a minor AAR on Guadalcanal and he said yes. Was it a good AAR I am not sure but the forums lit up like a Christmas tree and inspired me when I finished that AAR to do the "Fall Gelb" Fascist Tide scenario. Other members of the beta team started AAR's and the Forums bloomed with comments and interest. I was happier than a pig eating ****[&o] In these last several months most of the people are again gone, they want to get on with their life, other games, family matters etc. When warspite posted "sad, sad, sad" the forums came alive slightly, it showed me the feelings of a lot of posters from down in the dumps, to Steve please complete this game. It made me feel good to see some people were still around, it did not matter to me whether they criticized Steve, Matrix, or praised Steve for all his effort or Matrix for keeping the game on their books, it was people posting again, I want the game finished whenever possible, and with netplay, the AI, hotseat and possibly PBEM done and done right. I cannot express my feelings anymore than what I just posted, I have no animosity against Steve, Erik or Matrix, none, how could I as they want the game completed as much as I do. But in the end I just want to play MWIF! Bo Fair enough, I can understand being disappointed in something, and I respect that. I've only really gotten interest in MWiF in the last couple of months, since there's really nothing in the cardboard or digital world that seems to be comparable. As for the game itself, I wasn't going to pick it up, but got interested after reading some of the AARs, and am just waiting for Uncle Sugar to give me back what he owes me. Hopefully, we'll both be satisfied with the state of the game in the near future. (edit: fixed a typo)

warspite1 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 12:26:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA I take your point about the mega posters (although I didn't read the OP that way myself), but doesn't the point of diminishing returns apply there too? Even if you will make 20 posts on a topic where I would only make 1, there still has to be a topic. If there is nothing new to talk about (i.e. developments in the game), then why would people post? While MWiF is certainly not in its end-state, it is a mature game from a release date - current date perspective. I'm certainly not trying to be disagreeable, but I do wonder what level of activity would have avoided the "sad, sad, sad" to begin with, and how likely that level of activity is. While not saying this is the case, if you have an unreasonable expectation you are likely to be frequently disappointed. warspite1 I am totally flumoxed by this post [&:]

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 12:28:06 AM)
quote: Does that disqualify me from being able to comment on the situation, the way I see it? If so, fine, and I'll go back to lurking. Come on of course not, we need you to post your feelings, watch that word lurking though it sounds scary [:D] I cannot put words in 76mm's mouth but I do not fell he thinks you should stop posting because you did not buy the game, I feel he is frustrated over paying a lot of money for an unplayable game. Oh I hear posters saying how much they enjoy playing the game warts and all. How they break the game down with how many hours they play divided by the $100 or more that they paid and the cost become almost zero, I am not knocking that if that is what they feel good lord I am happy for them. What I do not understand is what part of "the game was not ready don't they get", originally they were promised a decent playing solitaire game a playable netplay and a future AI even though it should have been included in the original game, we, well Steve and Matrix are working to fix this but it is a long way off IMHO and since the release on Nov 7th, some problems have been corrected since then but no wheres enough since it's release. This is old hat I know that, we have gone round and round about this and most likely will never be resolved unless and a big unless this game is totally completed as if should have been when released. Bo

76mm -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 12:30:55 AM)
quote: Sure, I'd like to already be playing the game. I don't have the dinero yet. Does that disqualify me from being able to comment on the situation, the way I see it? If so, fine, and I'll go back to lurking. Of course you're free to express your opinion like anyone else, but: --anyone that is playing this game, or trying to, whether in board or computer format, is almost by definition not a casual gamer--just paying the rather high price and reading the 300 page (or whatever) manual sees to that. So I don't think it is appropriate to make comments based on some sort of uber-game-hardcoreness compared to other players; and --having bought this game a year and a half ago, yes, I think I have a greater right to complain than someone who hasn't bought it at all, and I'm not sure if someone who hasn't bought the game should be telling me whether or not I should be complaining about it...

etsadler -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 1:03:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA I take your point about the mega posters (although I didn't read the OP that way myself), but doesn't the point of diminishing returns apply there too? Even if you will make 20 posts on a topic where I would only make 1, there still has to be a topic. If there is nothing new to talk about (i.e. developments in the game), then why would people post? While MWiF is certainly not in its end-state, it is a mature game from a release date - current date perspective. I'm certainly not trying to be disagreeable, but I do wonder what level of activity would have avoided the "sad, sad, sad" to begin with, and how likely that level of activity is. While not saying this is the case, if you have an unreasonable expectation you are likely to be frequently disappointed. warspite1 I am totally flumoxed by this post [&:] Warspite, I'm trying to go back to your original post. You feel that there is not a lot of activity on the board. My point is, that for there to be activity, there has to be a reason for activity. Given the amount of time that the game has been out, and the slow pace of improvements, maybe there just isn't anything to talk about (that hasn't already been talked to death itself), so few posts. My query is, how much activity would there need to be that you wouldn't feel that the board is dead? And the follow up to that, is that level, whatever that might be, reasonable. Or to put it another way, from an activity perspective, what would make you happy? More posts don't necessarily mean a better discussion, which is why I generally don't post, and am seriously regretting saying anything at all. [:(]

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 2:01:16 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: RickInVA I take your point about the mega posters (although I didn't read the OP that way myself), but doesn't the point of diminishing returns apply there too? Even if you will make 20 posts on a topic where I would only make 1, there still has to be a topic. If there is nothing new to talk about (i.e. developments in the game), then why would people post? While MWiF is certainly not in its end-state, it is a mature game from a release date - current date perspective. I'm certainly not trying to be disagreeable, but I do wonder what level of activity would have avoided the "sad, sad, sad" to begin with, and how likely that level of activity is. While not saying this is the case, if you have an unreasonable expectation you are likely to be frequently disappointed. warspite1 I am totally flumoxed by this post [&:] Warspite, I'm trying to go back to your original post. You feel that there is not a lot of activity on the board. My point is, that for there to be activity, there has to be a reason for activity. Given the amount of time that the game has been out, and the slow pace of improvements, maybe there just isn't anything to talk about (that hasn't already been talked to death itself), so few posts. My query is, how much activity would there need to be that you wouldn't feel that the board is dead? And the follow up to that, is that level, whatever that might be, reasonable. Or to put it another way, from an activity perspective, what would make you happy? More posts don't necessarily mean a better discussion, which is why I generally don't post, and am seriously regretting saying anything at all. [:(] Rick please don't regret anything, I can see when you do not post a lot like you do you let some minor comments get to you, I guess warspite myself and many others have developed thicker skin then most because we have been through the friendly wars over and over, some posters are kind and some well, lets say get a little testy to say the least. Knowing warspite like I do I feel he was only commenting on the lack of interest lately, not on the reasons for the lack of interest, he like I, like to post about the game negative or positive even though I feel warspite is more positive then negative Bo[:(] Of course I cannot speak for warspite but you get to know posters feelings over the years and he has been a very positive poster for MWIF and a staunch defender against criticism of the game. Again like me he is frustrated by the lack of posting by all the great posters who are here and those who have left for whatever reason. They all have legitimate reasons but I feel as warspite does, we miss them. Bo

jc4751 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 2:07:30 AM)
. (edit: removed quote I couldn't find a specific reference for)

warspite1 -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 12:01:33 PM)
quote: and am seriously regretting saying anything at all. [:(] Yep, I know that feeling [:(]. Cannot believe that the thread has been so totally and utterly misunderstood by some. But that is entirely my fault, and not that of you or other subsequent posters, because I wrote the OP too quickly and as an emotional outpouring and was thus not sufficiently measured to ensure what I was trying to convey came across.

pzgndr -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 2:35:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 But that is entirely my fault, and not that of you or other subsequent posters Here in Castle Matrix, we have but one punishment for writing OPs too quickly. Bo, you must... oh, nevermind. [:'(]

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 3:16:23 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: and am seriously regretting saying anything at all. [:(] Yep, I know that feeling [:(]. Cannot believe that the thread has been so totally and utterly misunderstood by some. But that is entirely my fault, and not that of you or other subsequent posters, because I wrote the OP too quickly and as an emotional outpouring and was thus not sufficiently measured to ensure what I was trying to convey came across. Hmmm, I understood you perfectly,[;)] but then I am an expert at understanding misunderstandings [:D] Bo

bo -> RE: Sad, sad, sad....... (3/21/2015 3:20:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: pzgndr quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 But that is entirely my fault, and not that of you or other subsequent posters Here in Castle Matrix, we have but one punishment for writing OPs too quickly. Bo, you must... oh, nevermind. [:'(] Oh no you are not getting away with that pzgndr [:-] I want my annual 98 back right now, do not read another word of it [:D] Finish your comment please, I have armor on my back, I won't feel a thing[:(] Brainless people feel nothing[:(] Bo

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