RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A)

RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (Full Version)

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Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/10/2017 12:24:55 PM)
Hard truth #2 for JFBs....when the Allies confront a built up hex, they bypass or surround. How well are you poised to defend against a sea invasion at say Pegu? Or Tavoy? Or, even a better question, is how many of those troops are not restricted and would be better off on the front lines defending for a thrust from the Marianas?

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/10/2017 2:00:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Hard truth #2 for JFBs....when the Allies confront a built up hex, they bypass or surround. +1 defend in depth ... Only use armor in have to win/can't lose situations .... Paoshan meet either criteria?

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/10/2017 10:05:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo defend in depth ... Only use armor in have to win/can't lose situations .... Paoshan meet either criteria? In my appreciation yes...

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 1:58:25 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo defend in depth ... Only use armor in have to win/can't lose situations .... Paoshan meet either criteria? In my appreciation yes... wow. interesting. we play very different games.

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 11:36:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing The E-class type ships in particular get a hounarble mention from me, in this role. While they're dead meat to any frontline Allied ships, they carry 12cm guns for the most part, and if they run in to a Allied amphib TF, they can do respectable work. I even recall a few engagements where the E's put some nice holes in CVE's. Something worth thinking about, at any rate. Do you recall what settings you use for your Es? Thanks.

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 11:54:07 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lowpe Hard truth #2 for JFBs....when the Allies confront a built up hex, they bypass or surround. How well are you poised to defend against a sea invasion at say Pegu? Or Tavoy? Not at all. quote: Or, even a better question, is how many of those troops are not restricted and would be better off on the front lines defending for a thrust from the Marianas? You have been reading Rio's AAR. I don't have enough troops in the Japanese Army to defend against what he has there and what he is going to bring. Hard truth #3. This game will not see '45 and if Rio plays it like he says he can (to me on the phone) it might not see '44. THIS is new ground.

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 1:12:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo defend in depth ... Only use armor in have to win/can't lose situations .... Paoshan meet either criteria? In my appreciation yes... wow. interesting. we play very different games. I don't know...in my understanding keeping Burma road locked and barred is a major strategic achievement and advantage.

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 3:22:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner I don't know...in my understanding keeping Burma road locked and barred is a major strategic achievement and advantage. Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road.

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 9:22:55 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner I don't know...in my understanding keeping Burma road locked and barred is a major strategic achievement and advantage. Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. Interesting why not.

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 9:25:47 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. This is about 1600 AV knocking on the door, which as you have pointed-out, has a higher equivalency in fire power than the Japanese have at this stage of the game. If I did not have sufficient forces here, where do you think they would be a month from now? [image]local://upfiles/45493/F9580B6ED038409FA29F2FD08DC44DAA.jpg[/image]

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 9:31:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. This is about 1600 AV knocking on the door, which as you have pointed-out, has a higher equivalency in fire power than the Japanese have at this stage of the game. If I did not have sufficient forces here, where do you think they would be a month from now? [image]local://upfiles/45493/F9580B6ED038409FA29F2FD08DC44DAA.jpg[/image] I think it's less than 1600 AV, the number should comprise 1/4 of non-combatant, support troops?

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 9:32:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. This is about 1600 AV knocking on the door, which as you have pointed-out, has a higher equivalency in fire power than the Japanese have at this stage of the game. If I did not have sufficient forces here, where do you think they would be a month from now? Do you own Kunming and Kweiyang? You don't own the road from Paoshan to Kunming, but I can't remember and couldn't find a screen shot of Kunming/Kweiyang area ...

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 9:44:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. This is about 1600 AV knocking on the door, which as you have pointed-out, has a higher equivalency in fire power than the Japanese have at this stage of the game. If I did not have sufficient forces here, where do you think they would be a month from now? Do you own Kunming and Kweiyang? You don't own the road from Paoshan to Kunming, but I can't remember and couldn't find a screen shot of Kunming/Kweiyang area ... OK, went back far enough and found you have both Kunming and Tsuyung, but you have allowed the CHI forces to interdict the road from Paoshan to Tsuyung. Basically, all of your forces in Paoshan are in grave danger ... I would step back for a few days and consider this VERY carefully. Letting him through to CK is bad, losing your army is worse. It has been a long, long time since I have not taken CK so I'm rusty on this . Hopefully, one of the other lurkers here will step in ... Ok, you're like 8/43?. Just took Chengtu, but CK is still a rock. Lvl 6 forts. He's got +20K AV there. The biggest issue is that they aren't 25exp anymore ... most of them are prolly near the CHI training limit of 45 exp and that's bad. Further, they will all be 100% prepped for CK (except those that just came from Chengtu). Have you made a DA against CK yet? I can't remember ...

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 10:06:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner I don't know...in my understanding keeping Burma road locked and barred is a major strategic achievement and advantage. Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. Interesting why not. 15.8 BURMA ROAD For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are added to Tsuyung. The exact city requirements have been updated, but the 500/day remains correct. I'm not willing to sacrifice a significant portion of my army to delay only 500/supply day. The allies get another significant upgrade to their LCU's now, you cannot win a land war any more, only delay. The allies now have a 20M supply pool to work with. 500/day is nothing ...

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 10:29:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. This is about 1600 AV knocking on the door, which as you have pointed-out, has a higher equivalency in fire power than the Japanese have at this stage of the game. If I did not have sufficient forces here, where do you think they would be a month from now? Do you own Kunming and Kweiyang? You don't own the road from Paoshan to Kunming, but I can't remember and couldn't find a screen shot of Kunming/Kweiyang area ... OK, went back far enough and found you have both Kunming and Tsuyung, but you have allowed the CHI forces to interdict the road from Paoshan to Tsuyung. Basically, all of your forces in Paoshan are in grave danger ... I would step back for a few days and consider this VERY carefully. Letting him through to CK is bad, losing your army is worse. It has been a long, long time since I have not taken CK so I'm rusty on this . Hopefully, one of the other lurkers here will step in ... Ok, you're like 8/43?. Just took Chengtu, but CK is still a rock. Lvl 6 forts. He's got +20K AV there. The biggest issue is that they aren't 25exp anymore ... most of them are prolly near the CHI training limit of 45 exp and that's bad. Further, they will all be 100% prepped for CK (except those that just came from Chengtu). Have you made a DA against CK yet? I can't remember ... There are no Allied units on the road from Paoshan to Tsuyung. There is no way I can take CK so I am just going to bottle it up. It has been so long since the last DA there I can't remember but I think he has 5K+ there.

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 10:32:34 PM)
Sorry, miss read the image ... there are CHI units on the road outside of Tsuyung ...

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/11/2017 10:44:29 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo but I think he has 5K+ there. [/size] More like 20K AV ... [;)]

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/12/2017 9:45:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner I don't know...in my understanding keeping Burma road locked and barred is a major strategic achievement and advantage. Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. Interesting why not. 15.8 BURMA ROAD For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are added to Tsuyung. The exact city requirements have been updated, but the 500/day remains correct. I'm not willing to sacrifice a significant portion of my army to delay only 500/supply day. The allies get another significant upgrade to their LCU's now, you cannot win a land war any more, only delay. The allies now have a 20M supply pool to work with. 500/day is nothing ... But,of course, if the Allies get significant resupply to Rangoon, and the road is open, that shall start flowing through. If, and when, El Lobo shall conquer Chunking, so then the resupply of China's army get a secondary importance, not existing any more a Chinese army. Not correct? I think it as a move to neutralize the China issue. Moreover, Rio shows being much interested in salvaging China - as in RL IMO. Not a good occasion to pin up a relevant stack of his army on excellent defensive terrain? BTW 500 supplies daily isn't that bad...ceirtanly not huge though. but if added with regular supply throughput...

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/12/2017 12:35:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner I think it's less than 1600 AV, the number should comprise 1/4 of non-combatant, support troops? 1400-1600, does not matter. I'm just sayin', the tanks are stayin'.[:)][sm=tank2-39.gif]

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/12/2017 12:38:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo but I think he has 5K+ there. More like 20K AV ... [;)] Ouch! ................................. and crap.[:)]

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/12/2017 1:44:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: el lobo but I think he has 5K+ there. More like 20K AV ... [;)] Ouch! ................................. and crap.[:)] Every CHI unit re-spawns there at 1/3 strength. So, the 900AV units come back at 300AV and the 300AV come back at 100AV. Then they will add devices depending upon supply. However, they will gain exp and prep based upon time. With a Command HQ present, these will happen at a steady pace. Full prep in 50 -60 days. Exp will top out in about 100 - 120 days unless devices are added, they are added at the national start exp. So, the exact AV at CK is tough to know without looking at the entire map and having an idea of what was killed and now respawnsd. 5K would be a very low estimate, 20K towards the top. Truth is likely in the middle, but that's a very big middle. That's why going after CK is about going hard and early. You don't want to kill any CHI units until AFTER CK is owned, why fight units twice? Against the AI in Ironman, same tactic, just tougher. CK is lvl9 forts and has a lot more units in it, along with indigenous supply (1000-2000/day depending which 'flavor' of Ironman). Still the goal is to have taken CK before end of '42 ... earlier is MUCH better. just stuff for your next game.

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/12/2017 2:07:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner quote: ORIGINAL: PaxMondo quote: ORIGINAL: adarbrauner I don't know...in my understanding keeping Burma road locked and barred is a major strategic achievement and advantage. Ah, we do play quite differently. I do not place anywhere near that level of import in '43 on the Burma road. Interesting why not. 15.8 BURMA ROAD For the Allies, if a rail/road/trail path free of Japanese units between Tsuyung and Ledo or between Tsuyung and Rangoon can be traced, than each day, 500 supply points per turn are added to Tsuyung. The exact city requirements have been updated, but the 500/day remains correct. I'm not willing to sacrifice a significant portion of my army to delay only 500/supply day. The allies get another significant upgrade to their LCU's now, you cannot win a land war any more, only delay. The allies now have a 20M supply pool to work with. 500/day is nothing ... But,of course, if the Allies get significant resupply to Rangoon, and the road is open, that shall start flowing through. If, and when, El Lobo shall conquer Chunking, so then the resupply of China's army get a secondary importance, not existing any more a Chinese army. Not correct? I think it as a move to neutralize the China issue. Moreover, Rio shows being much interested in salvaging China - as in RL IMO. Not a good occasion to pin up a relevant stack of his army on excellent defensive terrain? BTW 500 supplies daily isn't that bad...ceirtanly not huge though. but if added with regular supply throughput... Now you see my point. Once Rangoon falls, allies can drop 1M supply there, literally. On the flip side, with allied troops on the roads supplying Paoshan, supply becomes difficult. Retreat is slow, allied units will always be in contact. Once Paoshan falls, all units in Paoshan retreat back one hex, but before they can re-organize to move, the allies are already there. Another series of attack, and eventual loss. Rinse/Repeat. after 3 maybe 4 hexes, the army is gone. In mountains, ARM units are slower than INF ... they always get caught. This takes 2 months plus/minus. CK - this is late '43 and the DA's haven't started against CK. I've never attempted CK so late. The AV there is going to be huge. I don't even know if it can be done ...

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/3/2017 10:01:02 AM)
BURMA Aug 7, 1943 Turn 609 Holding the hex south of Toungoo and Rangoon until all of the support units can move-out. Going to Chang Mai and Moulmein and roads in between. [image]local://upfiles/45493/C6999D053F784015905807CA49BD055A.jpg[/image]

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/3/2017 10:17:13 AM)
High El Lobo, how's weather now in Thailand? quote: ORIGINAL: Pax Once Paoshan falls, all units in Paoshan retreat back one hex, but before they can re-organize to move, the allies are already there. Another series of attack, and eventual loss. Rinse/Repeat. after 3 maybe 4 hexes, the army is gone. In mountains, ARM units are slower than INF ... they always get caught. This takes 2 months plus/minus. Proposed antidote/cure: scaled defense, in depth?

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/3/2017 10:03:55 PM)
My point was only I do not commit ARM forces to Paoshan. It is a death trap for them as they are slower in mountains than INF. Of course, defense in depth, outside of bases. And you must protect your flanks, you can't just stack the road like you can against the AI. Even then you have to watch for para drops that can break your SLOC ... The most dangerous is that the allies get a one turn advantage in movement ... always remember that... you are one turn behind them. This has killed more units than any other thing in the game .... and is the only game mechanic I would change.

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/4/2017 1:06:08 AM)
PAOSHAN Aug 8, 1943 Turn 610 I am rethinking this myself. You both have advocated defense in depth so that does not seem to be an issue, just the ARM. It seems to me that defensively, that besides it's raw AV, ARM is no more beneficial that any other unit. Enemy DAs do not create an automatic counter-DA so I am strictly on the defensive here. I have 950 AV that just arrived at Tsuyung on the way to Paoshan. When they arrive at Paoshan I will switch them out with the ARM. I have plenty of places that I can use the ARM offensively. I have units moving into my flank hexes. They should be there any week now. [image]local://upfiles/45493/B41996EA40074DF298E08F228EFCA130.jpg[/image]

PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/4/2017 2:01:05 AM)
Others can chime in for PBEM tactics better than I can, but I use ARM as gap pluggers and counter-offensive units. I also watch the terrain they are in carefully, I only use them where they have an exit lane where they are faster than INF. And I only commit them where I own the skies, ARM units are really vulnerable to air attack and they are like magnets for it. I don't like defending in bases as the supply there is vulnerable to attack. non-base hexes seem easier to defend. I prefer to defend in front of bases, making the allied units stretch their supply lines. Just me, hopefully some others will chime in with other thoughts.

adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/4/2017 7:57:35 AM)
All of this is wonderful, but, El Lobo, what about your (tactical) nuclearization of southern Marianas? any news?

el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/5/2017 12:31:01 PM)
PACIFIC Aug 9, 1943 Turn 611 Here is a map. The Allies are very quiet in the area and I am running around like the proverbial chicken. Rio is not going to attack Japan Proper (telephone intel) which is kind of a shame. I think that it would be a spectacular way to end the game. It is also kind of irritating. He says he has the forces to do it, so why not? He says that he is not sure of what I have there. I think he just wants to play cat and mouse for awhile. So the question is, where is he going next? There is no way I can stop his ground assaults. I don't have the manpower and even if I did, would they be in the right place at the right time? With so many places, the odds are overwhelming against that they would be. So it is air and sea. I think he is loading about five more IDs at Pearl, so will he go directly and attack someplace like Pagan or will he reload some of the units in the Marianas. My guess is that he may do both. He will also have five more Carriers this time around, another 400+ planes. He will be bringing the heavy Bombers so my time in the air will be limited as to how long the airfields hold-up. [image]local://upfiles/45493/7C5EF56AD5B74B419155D19703995B23.jpg[/image]

Aurorus -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (7/5/2017 7:48:39 PM)
Tanks on the defensive can be used in many, many different ways. To give you an example, they can move one hex on a major road in one day. If they move into a hex of infantry advancing down a major road, they can prevent that unit from moving for the day and reset its progress to zero miles. The armor can then move out that the next and avoid attack if it is not bombed, delaying the advance for several days if the enemy does not have armor. This can be used to set up Cap traps once the opponent grows wise to this strategy and tries to bomb the armor unit into combat mode to prevent its retreat. They also function well to flank and gain control of important hexsides in open terrain and along roads.

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