RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (Full Version)

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el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/2/2017 2:45:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

To second Pax, overproducing your late-war fighters is always a good thing. Pools can't be bombed, aircraft factories can.

Good point.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/2/2017 2:59:46 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

You have lost the Marianas to a deep invasion in mid 43....this happened to me in late 43. I was auto victory loss in Jan 1, 1945...and had to fight tooth and claw to make it to 45. I lost half of Japan and spent 6 months fighting on Honshu.

This is not the time to limit growth to 30...

and remember, the game is supposed to be fun![:)]

Well, it was fun until you gave me all that stuff to do. [:D] [:D] [:D] But thanks anyway. [:)]

It's late here but I want to address this and I will address the rest tomorrow.

Thirty is arbitrary, so out the window it goes. However, thirty or a hundred does not really matter. They only repair so fast so unless you have a way to make factories repair faster, ~thirty a day kind of keeps every thing that needs expanding, expanding.

And remember Guys, I've only had the Frank for two weeks and it has been expanding since day one. (Started at ninety.) Second unit up-graded today.

Thanks again All.














Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/2/2017 7:14:17 PM)

The way you increase your speed of repairs with respect to engines and planes, is simple. have multiple factories making them. A second factory doubles your rate, a third...well, you get the idea.




el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 2:12:32 AM)

PACIFIC Jul 13, 1943 Turn 584

Some expensive boats. CR reported three PTs sunk.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/64C8296351B0408C808044299FD4503E.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 2:24:13 AM)

Flak Trap. [:@]

That's why no aircraft there ...



Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 1:31:33 PM)

With all those lovely PT boats in task forces with no air cover...why did you attack the port?[&:]

On deep invasions, your ground bombers are pretty much worthless bombing any base as the AA will be super heavy. You need to recon and count guns before ever sending them in. You are better off using all your bombers in an anti-shipping role (i.e. train them for naval). Be prepared for the next major thrust...they will die like droves, but might wear out the CAP. Plus lots of JFB report some success.




PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 8:04:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
(i.e. train them for naval). Be prepared for the next major thrust...they will die like droves, but might wear out the CAP. Plus lots of JFB report some success.



+1
Also will soak up AA, and will allow latter waves to get through.
Its all about numbers ... 2:1 is the goal. If he brings 1500 AC, you need 3000AC. Either you are in, or don't try.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 8:06:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

With all those lovely PT boats in task forces with no air cover...why did you attack the port?[&:]

Agreed ... not sure if that was an oops or a learning opportunity. either way, you now know ... painful though ...



Aurorus -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 8:10:34 PM)

From what altitude did you bomb? It looks like you got under the 9K ceiling of 40mm Bofors. Japanese naval dive bombers are poor against any ground target with flak guns because they if they fly over 9K, they dive bomb and dive to 1 or 2K, thereby taking flak from everything (even machine guns). If they fly at 9k or under, they level bomb, but are under the ceiling of the Bofors. Without armor and with poor endurance, Japanese naval dive bombers just get torn up by any flak. The Jill casualties were also very high, however, so I am guessing you had them set at under 10K.



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/3/2017 11:19:58 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aurorus

From what altitude did you bomb? It looks like you got under the 9K ceiling of 40mm Bofors. Japanese naval dive bombers are poor against any ground target with flak guns because they if they fly over 9K, they dive bomb and dive to 1 or 2K, thereby taking flak from everything (even machine guns). If they fly at 9k or under, they level bomb, but are under the ceiling of the Bofors. Without armor and with poor endurance, Japanese naval dive bombers just get torn up by any flak. The Jill casualties were also very high, however, so I am guessing you had them set at under 10K.


ORIGINAL: Lowpe Post 1177

What do you have that can strafe? Fighters, Nicks, ...run them out of the bases you have nearbye at 1000 feet naval strike. Make sure you have lots of naval search too. Even Jakes flying at 2-4K can take out PT boats....mass them. Jills down low drop two bombs and will work at 3K.

YOu can also use the KB.. Judy and Jills will attack PT boats if detection is good...



I guess I misinterpreted this as to use for the KB also.


[image]local://upfiles/45493/DE21DEFCF3F244F0A649C4EDB77C53FD.jpg[/image]



Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/4/2017 12:54:56 AM)

From the picture, you did port strike not naval strike...every grunt with a machine gun was shooting at you![;)]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/4/2017 4:11:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

From the picture, you did port strike not naval strike...every grunt with a machine gun was shooting at you![;)]

+1 .. so appears to have been an oops. Happens to all of us, me more than most i think. [;)]



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/4/2017 9:32:11 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

PACIFIC Jul 13, 1943 Turn 584

Some expensive boats. CR reported three PTs sunk.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/64C8296351B0408C808044299FD4503E.jpg[/image]


Oh, my goodness.

any how, to strife you must set altitude 100 feet, not 1000.

I strife Pts with fighters....



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/6/2017 2:59:59 PM)

BURMA Jul 16, 1943 Turn 587

Rio is being aggressive and has focused his forces. Ramree fell last turn after about twenty DAs.

I an establishing "Fortress Paoshan." 3K AV with a good mix and a HQ.

[image]local://upfiles/45493/D64D74647CC84208B3711C7726B89C38.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/7/2017 12:47:45 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

BURMA Jul 16, 1943 Turn 587

Rio is being aggressive and has focused his forces. Ramree fell last turn after about twenty DAs.

I an establishing "Fortress Paoshan." 3K AV with a good mix and a HQ.


As long as you can CAP it, you should be good. Once you lose control of the air, any base is doomed. It just takes time and supply, allies have plenty of the latter, you want the former to run out for them.



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/7/2017 9:54:24 AM)

So why not augmenting the garrison at Paoshan?

such a capital location. The gate to China, on mountains



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/7/2017 11:52:01 AM)

When there are not solid inter-connected bases, I find the best defensive positions to be non-base hexes... so not Paoshan, but the hexes west of Paoshan ...

that's just me though ...



Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/7/2017 12:46:49 PM)

Paoshan has a very low stacking limit...

I would like to the the map again with the W key switched on so we can see hexside control.

Pax is right, as you cannot sweep your own bases...much easier to defend in non base hex in this instance. Forts don't get destroyed, great terrain, and you can sweep which opens up even more things to do.

Plus supply always seems to flow better to troops in the field than small bases.




el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/7/2017 11:03:19 PM)

PAOSHAN Jul 16, 1943 Turn 587

[image]local://upfiles/45493/28D8E2A45E71469FA7C62F430CEB1561.jpg[/image]



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/8/2017 12:40:05 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Plus supply always seems to flow better to troops in the field than small bases.



+1

My observation as well, but as much as I have tried to quantify this I have failed. Incredibly difficult to do, so it remains anecdotal.



Lowpe -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/8/2017 1:51:46 AM)

Pretty strong position, even incredible...how well is it drawing supplies?

Some of those Tanks have some AA, but I would hazard a guess that you need more.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/8/2017 3:02:22 AM)

My thoughts:

I don't like my armor bottled up, in Paoshan they are inaccessible anywhere else. Very risky for me ...



GetAssista -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/8/2017 8:27:23 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe
Plus supply always seems to flow better to troops in the field than small bases.

+1
My observation as well, but as much as I have tried to quantify this I have failed. Incredibly difficult to do, so it remains anecdotal.

Well, it all rests on the fact that bases can have miniscule draw built in. In Burma and mountainous China this is all over the place. E.g. 2/0/0 Paoshan has 200. When LCUs are in the base they can be supplied only from the base itself so they hit the limit of that base draw. When LCUs are outside they can be supplied from any base with valid supply path - no more draw limit. Of course you pay with supply spoilage along the path.



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/8/2017 10:12:35 AM)

I'd use Reformed China's Government (RGC) units only as garrisons out of first line IMO....


But what about the Marianas, that's important no less than China access if not more...

You had time to recover, don't you?

You could, and probably should, sea bombard them. And from the air (high altitude)! Let's see the results. I'd try to nuclerize them as much as possible before Rio's Armada to come back!



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/8/2017 10:15:55 AM)

When Ad. John Cochrane is finally going to show us a Japanese land array comparable to this. The world wonders..



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/9/2017 3:03:44 AM)

Supply is good. All units in the western hex are in the white even after they did a bombardment. I am flying supplies into Paoshan and it is maintaining.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/9/2017 3:10:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: el lobo

Supply is good. All units in the western hex are in the white even after they did a bombardment. I am flying supplies into Paoshan and it is maintaining.


That is VERY expensive and as IJ, you cannot afford to do that long term. It takes AT LEAST 1 supply to move a supply, in some cases it costs more.
Bad math for IJ. You can't afford a built in 50% supply loss in your supply chain.

Allies can, and did, do it because they are aswim in supply....



adarbrauner -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/9/2017 8:22:59 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


That is VERY expensive and as IJ, you cannot afford to do that long term. It takes AT LEAST 1 supply to move a supply, in some cases it costs more.
Bad math for IJ. You can't afford a built in 50% supply loss in your supply chain.

Allies can, and did, do it because they are aswim in supply....


But if he has a HQ (or 2?) supply should flow, right?

after all he's been mantaining a very big army around Chungking somehow....

and the allies are bound to same logistic restraints - although possessing a manyfold bigger airlift force -, isn'it? and THEY are on the offense...

not correct?


El Lobo, have you inherited the Chengtu industial facilities undamaged?



el lobo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/10/2017 2:30:00 AM)

Now that most of the troops are in the jungle I will start cutting the airlifts back.

adarbrauner,

Yes, see post #1164.

However as above, for the most part, the troops in the adjoining hexes are well supplied, and even the troops inside the base. The base itself is building supplies but is still in the red.



PaxMondo -> RE: The Gamiest Game in Town. El Lobo (J), vs. Rio Bravo (A) (6/10/2017 4:42:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: adarbrauner

But if he has a HQ (or 2?) supply should flow, right?


Referring to airlift, not supply movement. He stated he was supplying Paoshan via air, I was stating from a logistical standpoint it is self-defeating. You can run the IJ out of supply doing that with too many transports for too long ... it is very $$$$.




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