RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (Full Version)

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HITMAN202 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/17/2016 1:04:53 PM)

The supply line to most German front lines is inadequate for the 1st month blizzard '41 and yours must be far more than the 50 MP's. In my limited blizzard experience I discovered when supply falls less than 40% the consequences are severe with horrible attrition, very low MP's (if an infantry unit has 7 or less MP's it can only retreat 1 hex a turn .. I think, etc. etc.) My standard was to keep supply greater than 40 % for all units outside the 50 MP supply range with air drops. Your comment about this issue was the first I remember ever being posted and is a key part of Axis '41 blizzard strategy.



ericv -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/17/2016 1:33:47 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Yes AGN it is. I have the all the Barby boardgames. The screenie is from Vassal. A PC program to play boardgames on via the net.

IMO the GMT Barbarossa games are the best bar none on the 1941 German invasion.


That vassal looks interesting! The first I ever heard of that. Gonna take a look after work. (european hours here. Just 13:34. 3,5 hours to go)



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/17/2016 3:24:11 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: HITMAN202

The supply line to most German front lines is inadequate for the 1st month blizzard '41 and yours must be far more than the 50 MP's.


As a mainly Russian player with Asperger's, I obsess over truck numbers so therefore having efficient/short supply routes. At the start of the blizzard there were a few units NW of V. Luki about 12 or 13 hexes from railhead, a few at the far east end of the Donets bend 10 hexes away from railhead. I don't think anyone else was more than 7 or 8 hexes away.



RKhan -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/17/2016 7:06:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Respect for the first true blue wargamer to ID the game...


The truest wargamers are those who play with miniatures [:-]. That's my excuse for not knowing anyway.

quote:

ot knowin


I have a ton if you're ever in Cambridge area. I used to live in France (I think that's where you are) but just sold my place.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/17/2016 11:23:21 PM)

After university I started a firm making 15mms. After 5 years I decided to become respectable + sold it. However, I was too old by then to become respectable, so became a lawyer.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/17/2016 11:42:08 PM)

On to T26

When I opened the turn, I was somewhat bemused to find that the casualty figures were 32K G and 47K Russian. Russian figure was Brian's casualties in his turn, but Axis had to be his turn + Dec blizzard attrition.

These figures seem very weird. The counterattack or withdraw actions were triggered in virtually every combat which made a huge difference to losses. However, the attrition losses must have been incredibly low too. I know I squirreled away as much as I could into cities and towns, but I always do that. Have the attrition rates changed in some recent update. Seem too low - though I didn't add up all the axis combat losses so don't know how many were from attrition. With these combat losses in his turn + what I inflict in mine + Russian attrition, the hordes of Mordor won't be growing much this winter.............

Hitman asked awhile ago if anyone used soak-off attacks in WiTE. The answer is Brian uses lots.

A special mention to 12th Panzer xx in Dimetrov - a level 4 town in woods just N of Moscow. It withstood 3 bombing raids and 17 (yes, 17) ground attacks in Brian's T25. Total losses for 12 Pz were 268 men (200 of which were from 1 attack) vs 4.1K Russians. 12 Pz xx now has morale of 99 and experience levels average 96 and all its troops have new medals.



timmyab -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 2:30:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
12 Pz xx now has morale of 99 and experience levels average 96.

I think this is the best argument against doing soak-off attacks. I only use them as a last resort if the main attack has poor odds but must succeed.

I just had a look at Barbarossa AGN on Vassal, it looks great. I'd love to see that converted to the PC.
Superb looking map. The pc could handle more counters too so the whole thing could be done at regimental scale - yummy.





Michael T -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 2:43:51 AM)

The Barbarossa Games are superb. There is also a AGC, AGS, Kiev to Kharkov, Crimea and Typhoon. Typhoon 2nd Edition is planned along with a 1942 Case Blue. These games can be linked.

The scale is 2 days per turn. 5 mile hexes. Units are Divisions and Artillery Reg's. Panzer and Mot Divisions are Reg's, that is you have a Panzer Reg, 2 X Mot Inf Reg and a Recon battalion.

If I had more time I would be up for a vassal game, but I am committed to a game of WITE once 1.08.09 comes out.

http://www.gmtgames.com/c-16-east-front-series.aspx




chaos45 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 4:27:47 AM)

ya never messed with the GMT series---played a fair amount of Europa long ago and more recently played a fair amount of OCS case blue series plus some of the smaller ones.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 5:10:35 AM)

quote:

Hitman asked awhile ago if anyone used soak-off attacks in WiTE. The answer is Brian uses lots.


I have had one opponent that had attacked a hex 18 times too!!!! Didn't force the unit to retreat but i loved the morale hit 😍 I am pretty sure that the adverse effects to defenders were fixed prior to 1.08.5 patch if my memory serves me right. I still consider soak off attacks on a single hex as cheezy.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 5:17:01 AM)


GMT Barbarosa Army Group Games are in a class of their own! I loved them and still do. Also want to mention Longest Day by Avalon Hill, played that one and the GMT one wearing the counters out, lol [:D]


quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

The Barbarossa Games are superb. There is also a AGC, AGS, Kiev to Kharkov, Crimea and Typhoon. Typhoon 2nd Edition is planned along with a 1942 Case Blue. These games can be linked.

The scale is 2 days per turn. 5 mile hexes. Units are Divisions and Artillery Reg's. Panzer and Mot Divisions are Reg's, that is you have a Panzer Reg, 2 X Mot Inf Reg and a Recon battalion.

If I had more time I would be up for a vassal game, but I am committed to a game of WITE once 1.08.09 comes out.

http://www.gmtgames.com/c-16-east-front-series.aspx






sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 9:18:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: HardLuckYetAgain

quote:

Hitman asked awhile ago if anyone used soak-off attacks in WiTE. The answer is Brian uses lots.


I have had one opponent that had attacked a hex 18 times too!!!! Didn't force the unit to retreat but i loved the morale hit 😍 I am pretty sure that the adverse effects to defenders were fixed prior to 1.08.5 patch if my memory serves me right. I still consider soak off attacks on a single hex as cheezy.


Multiple attacks were very effective in the old days until a patch (happy to defer to your memory re which) stopped defenders using all their ammo during the 1st 3 or 4. They may be cheesy still, but I have no intention of complaining.

I forgot to mention that Brian managed to lower the fort level from 1.22 to 1.16..........................



Michael T -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 10:58:32 AM)

There had to be some positive effect for him [:D]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/18/2016 12:34:36 PM)

Take out his frustration????? [:D]. Definatly didnt hurt the PZ Division and gave himself a ton of fatigue. The PZ division so much as sneezes and his unit(s) are booking east without their vodka induced liquid courage having expired.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Michael T

There had to be some positive effect for him [:D]




sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/19/2016 10:09:49 PM)

T26 con't

[image]local://upfiles/35790/59C1ADC15FD944799AAF783690BF0344.jpg[/image]

Not much movement and the combat box shows my favourite of the many soak-off attacks on 12th Pz. I confine my c/attacks to where retreats through ZOCs or routs will occur. 63rd naval inf x shattered instead.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/19/2016 10:15:44 PM)

south

[image]local://upfiles/35790/519A5B3D55434A0AB2DF9165CCF6C01E.jpg[/image]

Pull back from the now frozen part of the Donets and east of Kharkov. Defences there are quite strong as I don't want any coomunists sweeping down on the Donbass cities from the north. I quite like leaving the odd little hole in the hope Brian takes the bait so I can rout him out next turn.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/19/2016 10:21:24 PM)

Production for the 1st time in ages - German only. I scrapped some 210mm and 240mm howitzer units so the remainder would be strong in the spring, and I certainly didn't want to buy any: not worth the arms points.

[image]local://upfiles/35790/14A8B6DB74FC47D38CF4B299DA51C63A.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/19/2016 10:42:37 PM)

Thoughts on T26

Losses 1.3K to 6K and air 20 v 12. Russian losses in the whole turn cycle will be about 100K when attrition is included. At that rate it will only be reinforcement units that grow the hordes of Mordor.

Very early days, but Russian stacks look weak and that seems to be borne out by their 1st week attacks. Every attack vs Germans seems to trigger a counterattack or withdrawl which makes it v. hard for Brian (and for me in my other game).

For anyone wondering why my cities are blue-coloured in the screenies, it's because I like to check that they are all properly garrisoned (shift K) and blue means that they are.



timmyab -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/19/2016 11:17:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower
the combat box shows my favourite of the many soak-off attacks on 12th Pz.

I bet that one poor guy from 12 pz who got nailed wasn't so pleased about it though [:D]



RKhan -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/20/2016 11:01:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: sillyflower

T26 con't


Not much movement and the combat box shows my favourite of the many soak-off attacks on 12th Pz. I confine my c/attacks to where retreats through ZOCs or routs will occur. 63rd naval inf x shattered instead.


Which UI or map mod are you using please? It looks better than the basic and more informative.



821Bobo -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/20/2016 11:14:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: RKhan
Which UI or map mod are you using please? It looks better than the basic and more informative.


It's Jison's mod
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3327255&mpage=1&key=



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 3:27:37 PM)

The next turn

[image]local://upfiles/35790/3C7783F713A4486095E9F8ADECCD9FFE.jpg[/image]

The nearest we get to a war of movement - not that I'm complaining. Towards the top, Brian advances in the odd hex and I rout him out of some of them again. Kursk and Orel are in a bit of trouble though.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 3:33:21 PM)

South


[image]local://upfiles/35790/2DEFA034B76849EDAD6557611C3AFEDB.jpg[/image]

Russians not getting very far, although they seem to enjoy routing when over-stacked during the retreat [:)].



Manstein63 -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 4:02:17 PM)

I would be interested to see your defence values for comparison purposes. You're doing nearly as well as I am in my game as the Axis [:D][:D][:'(]
Manstein63



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 6:44:02 PM)

Funny you should ask that. I took the pics you want earlier today but you will have to wait until I post T30



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 10:07:36 PM)

For those interested in combat results under the current beta (.08). 3 posts I'm afraid as I don't know how to put them into 1. Hope they are of some interest to Morvael + Denniss as they work on .09 even if no-one else. First here:

[image]local://upfiles/35790/E77B5BA9E3044EDDAB3D72C273F5B110.jpg[/image]



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 10:11:58 PM)

2nd

[image]local://upfiles/35790/23E6EF717C00443FB99A80750BBC7F9A.jpg[/image]

The German s defending @ Zmienca (6 up from bottom) should be thoroughly ashamed. They outnumbered their attackers, killed 352 men, 2 arty and 18 tanks for the loss of only 4 men, but still retreated. For that matter, the 4 were probably only lost during the retreat. Otherwise a grim read for Stalin fanboys as virtually every combat resulted in a counterattack or withdrawl.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/21/2016 10:26:48 PM)

3rd

[image]local://upfiles/35790/5803AE1AA88A4BEE826400F6AA628180.jpg[/image]

Best /only way to get decent loss ratios as Soviets vs Germans is to get a 'scouted' result which is a little counter-intuitive [&:], or attack the allies.



sillyflower -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/22/2016 2:06:28 PM)

Thoughts on T27

As with T26, G combat losses during R turn 26 + attrition was only 37K v 47K russian losses and 1 soviet inf xx shattered. In G T27 losses were 2.7K to 9.1K, air 40 to 79. Russian OOB just under 4.6M and axis total just under 5M. For the first time in the game, G AFVs outnumbered R by 4292 to 4244!

Happy to see a mainly static front, but not much Brian can do before .09 comes out, and that might be too late for him unless it v comes v. soon. From reading Loki's posts on both his AAR v Viga and on Brian's thread re retreat rules in the war room, .08 has caused real unfairness to the russians in existing games due to lack of advance testing; not that enough testing can ever be done in advance of major changes and there is a lot of good in .08. WiTE is an excellent subject for the study of the law of unintended consequences [:(]. Its complexity is both a strength and a weakness.



Michael T -> RE: SILLY's SWANSONG NO BRIAN G (3/22/2016 10:35:13 PM)

Why don't/didn't you guys put the game on hold till 09 comes along?

BTW I loved the cakewalk joke, best laugh I had in a long time [:)]



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