RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter.

RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (Full Version)

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Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/25/2018 8:51:30 AM)
Well, you said that factory evac is the job of the front commanders. So if you saw that in your final check, and elected not to do it, then this can really only be for role-playing purposes as there is no rationale reason not to evac?! Do we play with the auto-loose agreement of Moscow, Leningrad, Rostov and Voronezh lost in 41 = auto-loose? This seems to be a common house-rule.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/25/2018 8:58:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Kratsch Well, you said that factory evac is the job of the front commanders. So if you saw that in your final check, and elected not to do it, then this can really only be for role-playing purposes as there is no rationale reason not to evac?! Do we play with the auto-loose agreement of Moscow, Leningrad, Rostov and Voronezh lost in 41 = auto-loose? This seems to be a common house-rule. Iv edited my comment quite a bit, you might want to look at the previous message again. The game is set on bitter end.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/25/2018 9:02:01 AM)
I know about the bitter end setting, so that house-rule is not in effect then I take it? It was developed for a reason though...

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/25/2018 11:18:09 PM)
The axis turn is done... Huge pocket in the Center. Huge pocket in the South. +- 200 fighter aircraft were sent in the South 8 Infantry Division reinforcement went to the Southern Front, at Voronezh 3 Infantry Division went North. the rest went to Moscow. - As for the transfer of commander in the South, take what whoever you need to do the job. -The mud season has started in the South. - Will probably start thinking about retreating to the Gorky-Yaroslav-Cherepovets line with both Northern and Central Front and maybe have the Southern front take the Rostov-Stalingad defensive line. So prepare for that in the next turn or so. Turn is up, its Central Commander's turn.

ledo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/26/2018 12:14:26 AM)
Yeah I'm sorry about all the mess. I had so much work this week, so I got through my turn as quickly as I could because I was holding up the team, my apologies. I was hoping someone might point out the problems with my line (of which i was absolutely sure there were many, but dont have the experience the Soviets to know exactly where). But obviously that created a whole bunch of confusion. Anyway I'm fine with playing on, and I got a long weekend now, so I'll finish my turn today. I'll salvage what I can from the Central front in terms of factories. I'm sorry for the situation but it was going to be difficult to avoid a pocket without abandoning Moscow (at least with my skill level) considering, where it counted, my front was probably outnumbered by the Germans (I probably should have railed those units from the South, in hindsight).

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/26/2018 2:21:48 AM)
Dont worry about it Ledo ! We are all pretty much new here so its normal that we make mistakes ;) for instance, I forgot to put the save file in the dropbox a few hours ago haha.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/26/2018 8:19:54 AM)
Can I suggest that the factory evac is done either as part of the final Sup Commander play, or I will do it at the end of my play. Only then the final position is known, and we know how many rail points are left. If moving units around, it is often better over longer distances to do so with rail, as opposed to move them by foot to their maximum. The latter fatigues them badly, which means they don't fight/dig that well. In the centre you should be able to poke a hole through the ring in the middle. That will give the pocket at least one more turn of supply to live. In the south, the pockets don't look tight, so I am pretty sure I can break in/out, and may even be able to return the favour and cut their spearheads off for a turn or two, which will slow them down. Otherwise, I think I will shut up, and not spend lots of time looking at the rest of the map, as it appears that no one is reading those posts anyway; plus it may make the team dynamics better.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/26/2018 10:38:22 AM)
Yes for the factory evac. But ask Ledo first if he wants to give you the responsibility because it his job for now. I dont personally mind whoever does the factory evac.

ledo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/26/2018 11:23:30 PM)
Hi everyone, My turn is done and the file is in the dropbox. I've managed to open the pocket and was just short of opening it in two places and isolating two motorized divisions, bit disappointing i couldn't pull it off. Still, three divisions of his pincer are in a slightly poor supply situation and his ammo should be depleted. I've done some reorganization to get rid of overloading and a few factory evacs. 3 ARM from N. Moscow as well as an IL-10 and a Yak 7a from Moscow. Not sure whether to do the BM rocket launchers? I've saved some railcap in case anyone has anything under threat. Can we make sure to evac as much HI and ARM from Moscow with what ever remaining railcap we have? Let me know if you have any other advice and feel free to make any minor adjustments to my front if you think I've made a big mistake. Thanks, Ledo

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/27/2018 2:45:52 PM)
We still have 1800+ airframes in the Moscow Air command, far far behind in the frontline doing absolutely nothing at that range. That is roughly double of what I have in the entire south. As it seems that people don't want those planes, can you please send them south at least to do something?? There is also one dvision shell still sitting behind the Uralus mountians. Units set to 'refit' don't dig basically, so units at the front should not have that setting. Instead, units not adj to enemies (cav and arm) should be set to 'reserve', as they then can participate if other units of the same command get attacked.

ledo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/27/2018 10:16:10 PM)
I did all my ground bombings and recon and I assumed airfield bombings is SupCom, as in Telemecus' AARs. I can move them forward, but I'm a bit worried about just having to move them back next turn if the Germans break through my lines in the North. Honestly, I've just been using my airframes for recon and ground bombing. I didn't realize all your air advice was directed at me, because I thought SupCom handles the air, considering Neogod would be doing the air doctrine settings. I didn't notice the refit setting, sorry, not as big a problem with the Axis as normally its just my armored thats on that setting, my bad.

ledo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/27/2018 11:03:41 PM)
Anyway, I feel like I might have made a mess of things. As I said when I've started I have only been actively playing this game for about 3-4 months and never as Soviets. I was just hoping for an easy entry point into the game, where I have reduced responsibilities and get some feedback from more experienced players. I haven't had as much time as I would have hoped to get my head around it because of work (I was hoping to use this as an opportunity to better understand the Soviet OOB and production bottlenecks), but I would like to thank you all for giving me advice. However, I'm starting to feel like the mood here is getting a bit passive aggressive, and I'm just starting to feel guilty every time I upload my turn or open my new turn, and that's not really enjoyable. I understand much of this is my fault because of some of the mistakes and misunderstandings I've had jumping into this particular match, so I apologize for that. And I'm happy to call it a day if I'm dragging the team down. Otherwise, I'm happy to play on, and I am reading your suggestions and feedback, but I hope you understand that mistakes will be made, and not for lack of my willingness to do what you tell me. We can find a way forward, for example, I'm more than happy for South to move my airbases forward to where he thinks is an appropriate position, or as I said I'm happy to call it a day. But I don't want to go on if everyone is going to be aggravated and arguing with each other, because that's just not fun for anyone. I like winning, and I'll invest as much time as I can or am given to improve during my turns, but frankly I'm just here to have fun, and I'm more than happy to lose while doing so, but not vice versa.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (1/31/2018 6:51:09 PM)
Dear All, it was by pure chance that I checked when I discovered that it was my turn in the South. Could I maybe suggest that it is written down as a two-word email when one is done, or who is up? Here this resulted in a 3 day delay that was not needed. I have done the south, and I have sent all southern air with morale <30 and/or fatigue >20 to national reserve as discussed. For the avoidance of doubt, I have NOT done: - use up the rail - did any further factory evac - readjusted anything - relocated the wasted 1800 airframes in the centre back - move the one div left in the Uralus I leave it up to the Sup Command to address all outstanding issues as he sees fit. Could I please request some figher aircraft for the south as the vast majority of my bombing missions have to run without any fighter cover. Also, the German will have to do lots and lots of air supply runs, all of which at present run entirely unmolested deep behind my lines to supply his cut off divisions.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/1/2018 6:32:19 PM)
LEDO : Do all the factory evac that you need to do. Take whatever rail cap you need. Also, try not to lose any more armies or division because I am going to have to send more reinforcement South and North in the next few turns. Kratsch : You now have the Air Command on top of your Southern Front to take charge of. Everything Air related, is up to you. All I ask is that you ask me first before doing something drastic , but if not, you are free to do as you please. Move them where you want, assign each aircraft where you want, etc etc. Just make sure each front commander has what they need. ALL PLAYERS : Refer to Kratsch anything air related. Refer to Ledo anything Factory related. So to be clear. Each front commander still use the air force units assigned to them as they want, but Kratsch is in charge of upgrading, and diverting those forces. turn order 1st : Ledo ---) 2nd : Kratsch --) final : Neogodhobo After you guys have done the factory evac and the air forces, I will do the final turn. Dont forget To assign any STAVKA units to your armies. PS : An email has been sent to Ledo to confirm him to do his turn. Also, may I suggest people get notification on their computers whenever a Dropbox file from the game is saved ? In that manner, everyone is notified as soon as a turn is done. this is what I have done here on my PC and it work wonders.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/1/2018 7:00:23 PM)
Ok, no problems, will do. Have you sent the file to the Germans yet? If not, then please let me do some air things this turn, i.e. sending some stuff around, before you send it off! Regarding air then a few pointers: 1) At the start of each turn, can people please send ALL air units under their command to the national reserve with any of that: morale 30 or less, fatigue 20 or more, less than 5 aircraft in a unit. As an alternative, if I go after supreme first, then I can do that for all players. Importantly, if anyone moves bases around, does recon etc, i.e. anything that gives the air unit flown miles, this cannot be done anymore; so, either everyone remembers that, or I do my stuff after Sup Command before anyone does their turn. 2) If you ever attack anything, bomb the hex twice beforehand. 3) Keep airbases around 5 hexes behind your front line, unless it is clear that that area will be overrun in the next turn, then place them laterally somewhere which will not be overrun, or worst case, further away 4) Bunch your airbases up as close to each other as possible; that way any of the bases with fighters protect the other bases as well. 5) At the end of your turn, bomb all tank/mech units twice, and any threatening infantry units twice as much as possible. 6) I will do airfield bombing at the start after Sup Command, as only units with <30% flown miles can do that. So this needs to be done before any movements etc. At the same time, I will also do some fighter sweeps, so when it will be your turn, some of your units will already have some miles flown in them. 7) Only aircraft attached to a front can fly ground support for that front. So, within your command, make sure that each front has some air units. 8) If it is likely that the Germans will use air supply in an area, make sure that bases with fighters with miles left in them are close by as much as possible. 9) For bombing missions, don't do the auto mode: Hold shift, then R click the hex you want to bomb. That way you can choose which air units will take part. More than 200 bombers per attack is not that efficient. Il-2 are better against mech/tank units. Level bombers better against infantry. So Sup Command: Can I use more or less 5 APs each turn to upgrade air units as we go along? It costs 1AP per unit. How much used depends each turn on your stockpile. Thinking about it, I think it would be easiest with the least likelihood for oversights if I go first after you Neo before and front commanders. I could then do my south at the same time to avoid delays. Up to you.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/1/2018 7:43:58 PM)
Everything I said was for this turn. So we are currently waiting on Ledo to do the factory evac, and then you for the air stuff. My wife just got in the house, Il be reading and coming back shortly.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/1/2018 7:46:12 PM)
ok, will then do my stuff once I hear from Ledo

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/1/2018 8:16:45 PM)
Alright, sorry about that... 1) As an Air marshall, you will be the one moving every air units if you want to do a re-organization of the air forces. We will leave only the moving to do air missions to the front commanders. Yes you can use 5 AP. And as for the turn, we will go back to how it was with the Air commander, so : Sup com early --) Air --) Center, North , South --) Air --) Supcom final. I will make an announcement vis-a-vis all that before the next turn.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/1/2018 8:20:14 PM)
ok, got it

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/2/2018 7:56:08 PM)
Just double-checking - am I still waiting for Ledo to do stuff, or shall I go ahead with the Air stuff to keep us going?

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/2/2018 9:06:31 PM)
Were still waiting for Ledo, yes. If you know how to do factory evac, you can do it Kratsch for this turn, in order to accelerate things.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/3/2018 7:19:05 PM)
Ok, will do things in a moment, incl factory evac.

Kratsch -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/3/2018 9:24:58 PM)
Ok, done. Used all air to evac stuff from Moscow area. Sent all available air closer to the fronts, with a reasonable distribution of fighter and bomber aircraft. A large number of fighters were still stuck in the Moscow Air Command airfields as they had already flown miles, so could not be sent anywhere - will dish them out next turn. Moved airbases closer to the front, disbanded 2 air HQs that are not necessary to free up stuff, and upgraded 1 unit to a Yak-1. Also built some more fighter units. Made a few minor changes here and there mainly for C&C reasons, i.e. HQs into ranges. Some suggestions and learning points: - try not to stack units from different armies/fronts. The will get a hefty CV deduction for C&C mess up. - keep HQs within 5 hexes of their units as much as possible. - send routed units as far as possible backwards. If they are > 10 hexes, they get a morale bonus if on refit. - shell new divisions coming onto the map need to be placed into refit mode, as they often after very very understrength. In an ideal world, they would stay back and train for a few weeks, but we don't have that luxury. - try to have some armour/cav units in 2nd/3rd line on reserve modus with as many MPs left as possible. They are great force multipliers to frontline units. All ready for SupCommand, then for Axis. Flie is uploaded.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/4/2018 12:17:30 AM)
Okay thanks. Guys we lost Central commander so we will need a replacement to take over the Central Front.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/7/2018 6:50:32 PM)
Hello everyone. Turn 12 is now in our hands and the situation is bad. The enemy has completely encircled Moscow, and along with it, our very first Guards Rifle Division. Although, we are going to start receiving a lot of reinforcement in the next few turns, including this turn. Now that Moscow is encircled, we have a two options in front of us. We can, fight as much as we can and risk many more encirclement. Or Retreat to the Yaroslavl - Gorky line and defend the whole river. If we choose to retreat to defend the River, I was thinking of having all the troops near Moscow to fight, while all the reinforcement for the next 2 turn can go to defensive position along the river, and then get all the remaining forces ( around Moscow) to retreat to the river after the 2 turns. After the River is secure, we would send all reinforcement for the next few turns to the Southern and Northern Front. This is the route I am aiming to go but I am open to suggestion. So if you have anything in mind, please be vocal about it. We will also welcome a new central commander, lastkozak. He his rather new to the game so dont hesitate to help him out and lastkozak, dont hesitate to ask any question here. All commanders please Follow the Air Marshall's instruction about how to conduct air warfare wich I will list below. HOW THE TURNS ARE NOW GOING TO WORK : 1-Supreme Commander 2-Air Marshall - 3-Central Commander - 4-Northern Commander - 5-Southern Commander - Air Marhsall 6-Supreme Commander. TIPS AND ADVICE FROM KRATSCH Some suggestions and learning points: - try not to stack units from different armies/fronts. The will get a hefty CV deduction for C&C mess up. - keep HQs within 5 hexes of their units as much as possible. - send routed units as far as possible backwards. If they are > 10 hexes, they get a morale bonus if on refit. - shell new divisions coming onto the map need to be placed into refit mode, as they often after very very understrength. In an ideal world, they would stay back and train for a few weeks, but we don't have that luxury. - try to have some armour/cav units in 2nd/3rd line on reserve modus with as many MPs left as possible. They are great force multipliers to frontline units. AIR POINTERS Regarding air then a few pointers: 1) NA 2) If you ever attack anything, bomb the hex twice beforehand. 3) Keep airbases around 5 hexes behind your front line, unless it is clear that that area will be overrun in the next turn, then place them laterally somewhere which will not be overrun, or worst case, further away 4) Bunch your airbases up as close to each other as possible; that way any of the bases with fighters protect the other bases as well. 5) At the end of your turn, bomb all tank/mech units twice, and any threatening infantry units twice as much as possible. 6) I will do airfield bombing at the start after Sup Command, as only units with <30% flown miles can do that. So this needs to be done before any movements etc. At the same time, I will also do some fighter sweeps, so when it will be your turn, some of your units will already have some miles flown in them. 7) Only aircraft attached to a front can fly ground support for that front. So, within your command, make sure that each front has some air units. 8) If it is likely that the Germans will use air supply in an area, make sure that bases with fighters with miles left in them are close by as much as possible. 9) For bombing missions, don't do the auto mode: Hold shift, then R click the hex you want to bomb. That way you can choose which air units will take part. More than 200 bombers per attack is not that efficient. Il-2 are better against mech/tank units. Level bombers better against infantry.

thedoctorking -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/7/2018 7:03:20 PM)
My intent was to retreat to Vologda-Cherepovets though I am going to wait until they actually capture Leningrad before leaving fully. But I am going to evacuate the Karelia region and pull back past the Volkhov, trying to hold Sviritsa until they actually clear the Leningrad pocket. I would appreciate the Air Marshal using as much transport capacity as possible to fly supplies into Leningrad and turn as many units as possible orange-bordered instead of red-bordered (they fight harder, and the longer they last the longer it will take for them to chase me east). I agree with all of the suggestions in your message. Stacking airbases three-high and making sure each hex has at least 100 fighters is a good idea to prevent air attack, though I wonder if the Germans really have the resources to bomb our airbases now. PVO AAA support units could be committed to Sviritsa if we have some to spare. Just in case I can keep Leningrad alive for a few more turns. Otherwise, I recommend assigning at least three AAA units to each air HQ. And, of course, keeping the air HQ near the air bases it commands. I think that other HQ's in the vicinity also can commit their AAA to support attacked air bases, so if you keep several HQ's in the same region with your air bases you will further reduce air base attackers. The Luftwaffe is powerful but fragile.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/7/2018 8:18:59 PM)
Alright Doctorking, I approve your plan, Just make sure to defend exactly those position, in order to join up with central front's defensive line : [img]https://i.imgur.com/g3ON6v6.png[/img] This is what I had in mind for the area around Moscow [img]https://i.imgur.com/opQLvxd.png[/img]

thedoctorking -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/7/2018 8:44:21 PM)
Does my sector extend south of Lake Rybinsk? If so, how far? I imagine I won't have much to do if I don't. Why any German would try to push past the Volkhov is beyond me.

Neogodhobo -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/7/2018 10:30:06 PM)
No, it does not extend. The Central front will close the gap. Depending on how much troop is available for everyone, then we might make changes. But these are not official plan yet, Im just toying around and gathering everyone's idea on them. Lake Rybinsk can be seen as the mass of blue on the Moscow Defense Plan.

thedoctorking -> RE: 2by3+ SOVIET SIDE ONLY, German dont enter. (2/8/2018 4:03:14 AM)
Funny, when I look at the "report" map and the Commander's Report "battles" tab, I don't see any Axis attacks. Yet they clearly attacked - they are across the Neva next to Osinovets and have broken through behind Velikie Luki. Something wrong with the save game?

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