RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43

RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (Full Version)

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warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/22/2017 4:04:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: John B. This is a very interesting AAR. Thanks for wading through some of these issues so that we can see in real time how things are supposed to work without trying to figure it out on our own. warspite1 Thank-you. To be honest this only works because good folks like Olorin, Curtis Lemay (to name but two) are prepared to assist. I am just so happy to be playing with the boaty things, guns, planes and stuff in the Mediterranean!

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/22/2017 4:43:00 PM)
Turn 2 - Phase III - 7th Armoured Division (cont) 14th December 1940 Let's look a little closer at one of the battle's. This battle involved: Battle of El Hamra Italian OOB Marmarcia Division 115th Infantry Regiment HQ 1st Bn, 115th Regiment Cirene Division 158th Infantry Regiment HQ 1st Bn, 158th Regiment 2nd Bn, 158th Regiment 3rd Bn, 158th Regiment 44th Artillery provides support to the defenders of the fort. Commonwealth OOB 7th Armoured Division 4th Armoured Brigade HQ 1st Royal Tank Regiment 3rd Hussars Regiment 8th Hussars Regiment 3rd Royal Horse Artillery 202 Group Royal Air Force 3rd Sqn RAAF (Hurricanes) 45th Sqn RAF (Blenheims) Free French contingent (Moranes) Further to the expanded comments in the earlier post, I'll take a look at the Formation Report and the individual units of 7th Armoured Division. The units of the division are subject to: 17.11.7 - Formation Orders (see OOB Formations chart on the right) General Orders - Attack [This can be ignored - see below] Formation orders are primarily designed for use in fine-tuning the programmed opponent. Except for the Static and Delay orders, they have no effect on a human player. Static: Units belonging to the Formation are not available for Orders until the Formation is activated. Activation occurs on a specific Turn (set in the Editor) or when the enemy Attacks or moves adjacent to any unit of the Formation. When activated, the Formation assumes a Defend order. Delay: Units belonging to the Formation are not available for Orders until the Formation is activated. Activation occurs on a specific Turn (set in the Editor) or when the enemy Attacks or moves adjacent to any unit of the Formation. When activated, the Formation assumes an Attack order 8.2.8 Unit Deployment Orders - (see Formations Report on the left) Units may be deployed in various ways within their location. This Deployment status reflects an internal optimisation for specific roles or missions: I won't list all these here, but in the chart below there are the following in evidence: Mobile – The unit is ready for movement. Artillery units in this Deployment will not provide long range supporting fire. This is also the Deployment status of a unit that moved in the previous Turn. Moving – This is the same as a Mobile deployment, except that the unit has already moved this Turn. Units automatically deploy to Moving Deployment if they move. Reorganising* – The unit is attempting to recover from recent combat, and may not move or attack. * Unit Reorganisation - Units failing multiple Quality Checks during combat, usually as the result of significant combat losses, can become so disorganised that they will no longer respond to your orders. When this happens, the unit is said to be “Reorganising”. At the beginning of each Turn, all Reorganising units are checked to see if they have finished their reorganisation. Units must pass a modified Quality Check in order to complete Reorganisation. This is more likely if they are Supplied, have not moved in the previous Turn, and are located with or adjacent to a cooperative Headquarters unit. A Reorganising unit (or any other unit that is not allowed to move during the current Turn; e.g.Reserves) has an orange “bar” printed behind its combat (Attack – Defence) or Movement numbers on its 2D icon. In the current game the 3rd Hussars are reorganising as evidenced by the orange bar. 10.5.1 Attack Deployment You may set up as many Attacks as you wish. The Orders emphasis you select determines how hard your units will fight for their objectives. Three options: Minimise Losses, Limit Losses and Ignore Losses. [image]local://upfiles/28156/65C58F76C7314C3AB5426E0E26CE2C8E.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/22/2017 5:35:48 PM)
Turn 2 - Phase IV 14th December 1940 With Sidi Barani having fallen, and the Italians north of Buq Buq being impregnable at the moment, the remainder of the turn will be all about destruction of the last remaining units to the southwest and moving as many units as possible toward Sollum. But first, I've noticed a couple of attacks can be ordered without any effect on increasing the rounds. The 2nd Royal Tank Regiment are tasked with eliminating a battalion of 2nd CCNN infantry and their artillery support, while to the south two infantry battalions are ordered to attack the Cirene HQ which is guarded by a weak battalion and some artillery. [image]local://upfiles/28156/8F1E58169BB34771A35FC189FA0B4275.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/22/2017 6:06:54 PM)
Turn 2 - Phase IV 14th December 1940 The British units make light work of the attack and the gap between the remaining Marmarcia and Cirene Division units and the relative safety of Libya seems to get ever wider. Ahhhhhhh!!! I've done it again. I've moved onto the AI turn before having a chance to review the last phases of the CW turn. Annoying [:@]

marion61 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/22/2017 8:07:10 PM)
Not sure where you have the 4th Indian Div., but on t3 you have two units withdrawing, and more on t5 and t7. I'm on t4 and the ones withdrawing are at the tip of the spear and I'm scrambling to get new units in there. The only way to see if a unit withdraws is to constantly check the "Expected Reinforcements" button. You get no warning of withdrawals, although you do get a warning that you have new reinforcements. Maybe we could get a warning on the turn before a unit or units withdraw, that they are withdrawing? Otherwise you either keep those units in the back lines, or you have to go thru the "Expected Reinforcements" tab and find them one by one to see where they are. A warning would be great. Maybe the warning could show like when you get new reinforcements? Not sure how hard that would be to put in, but I don't always remember to check the reinforcements tab.[8D]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/22/2017 8:18:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: marion61 Not sure where you have the 4th Indian Div., but on t3 you have two units withdrawing, and more on t5 and t7. I'm on t4 and the ones withdrawing are at the tip of the spear and I'm scrambling to get new units in there. The only way to see if a unit withdraws is to constantly check the "Expected Reinforcements" button. You get no warning of withdrawals, although you do get a warning that you have new reinforcements. Maybe we could get a warning on the turn before a unit or units withdraw, that they are withdrawing? Otherwise you either keep those units in the back lines, or you have to go thru the "Expected Reinforcements" tab and find them one by one to see where they are. A warning would be great. Maybe the warning could show like when you get new reinforcements? Not sure how hard that would be to put in, but I don't always remember to check the reinforcements tab.[8D] warspite1 Remember in post one when I used the word numpty? There was a reason for that [:D] Unlike when I'm playing the Eastern Front theatre and some others, I actually know at least something about this theatre (happy memories of playing Desert Rats on the Spectrum all those years ago. [:)]) I therefore knew the 4th Indian are the first to go. Despite that I sent them north to capture Sollum. [8\|] My only defence is that I was hoping that by the time they are withdrawn, there are sufficient other units released from fighting around Buq Buq to take their place. We'll see.....

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 2:19:41 AM)
Turn 2 - Axis Turn 14th December 1940 So what was the Italian High Command's response to the loss of Sidi Barani and the defeat of not only the majority of Graziani's invading force, but also much of the reinforcing units too? The only reinforcement of the units in Egypt has been a tank battalion that took back the airfield at Sidi Omar. Otherwise the response was pretty much limited to bombardments by the Italian artillery, which gave a decent account of themselves. No doubt, as a result of their efforts more Commonwealth units are reorganising. The order of battle for the troops remaining in Egypt looks numerous on paper, but decidedly thin in terms of the fact that the units are spread out, isolated from each other. The units in the southwest still give cause for concern in terms of them holding up advance of 7th Armoured. XXII Corps HQ 16th GaF Artillery Regiment Corps Artillery XXV Corps HQ 22nd GaF Artillery Regiment Corps Artillery 3rd (M) Tank Battalion 62nd Marmarcia Division Marmarica Division HQ 115th Infantry Regiment HQ 1st Bn, 115th Regiment 2nd Bn, 115th Regiment 3rd Bn, 115th Regiment 116th Infantry Regiment HQ 1st Bn, 116th Regiment 2nd Bn, 116th Regiment 3rd Bn, 116th Regiment 44th Artillery Regiment 62nd Anti-tank Bn 62nd Machine Gun Bn 62nd Engineer Bn 63rd Cirene Division 158th Infantry Regiment HQ 1st Bn, 158th Regiment 2nd Bn, 158th Regiment 3rd Bn, 158th Regiment 63rd Anti-Tank Bn 63rd Engineer Bn 63rd Motorcycle Bn 64th Catanzaro Division Catanzaro Division HQ 3rd Bn, 142nd Regiment 64th Engineer Bn 64th Machine Gun Battalion 1st CCNN Division 1st CCNN Division HQ 233rd Legion HQ 1st Bn, 233rd Legion 2nd Bn, 233rd Legion 2nd CCNN Division 2nd CCNN Division HQ 1st Bn, 231st Legion 2nd Bn, 231st Legion 202nd Artillery Regiment [image]local://upfiles/28156/9ABCC1DCE8654B2BBB62F48FA5659D10.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 3:23:52 AM)
Turn 3 - Round 1 (I will use Rounds from now on in keeping with the game) 18th December 1940 Historically Sollum was captured on the 17th - so I am ahead there (although I see the hex is empty so presumably the Indians have started to withdraw ( I will check in a minute)). However, to stick to the historical timescale I need to be at Bardia in a week!!! Right, I check the Formation Report for Major-General Beresford-Peirse' 4th Indian Division and can see that the need for these units in East Africa is overwhelming and they are starting to withdraw. Their replacement is the 6th Australian Division and so I need to start moving them up (note I did not check so its possible I could have started moving them last turn (historically the withdrawal of the Indians and reinforcement by the Australians was from the 12th iirc). [image]local://upfiles/28156/58047AAB9E9746328E7972354F7F9D94.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 3:41:07 AM)
Turn 3 Round 1 18th December 1940 And here are the Aussies, three infantry brigades strong, all ready to move out [:)] [image]local://upfiles/28156/C42B9EA344674B7598A0DBE2968CC2C2.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 3:50:54 AM)
Turn 3 Round 1 18th December 1940 A quick look at the Nile Delta shows the RN are taking their time to reload! HMS Valiant's supply is only at 25%... As can also be seen the New Zealanders - Charles Upham and all [&o] - are forming up, as are the Polish Brigade. [image]local://upfiles/28156/18EBD0A5E2824A9D9A57FC4B60864F71.jpg[/image]

SpeedyCM -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 4:20:56 AM)
You might want to keep an eye on the Australian 18th Brigade down near Cairo as well, not sure when they release but they are non-motorized infantry so can come in handy for taking out those pesky buggers in the dunes.

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 4:46:29 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SpeedyCM You might want to keep an eye on the Australian 18th Brigade down near Cairo as well, not sure when they release but they are non-motorized infantry so can come in handy for taking out those pesky buggers in the dunes. warspite1 I can see the 9th Australian Division - of which the 20th Brigade is on map. I cannot see an 18th Brigade though. Historically the 18th arrived in early 1941 - and the 9th Division later, so maybe the arrival of the latter is game balancing?? I see the 20th Brigade is all foot so that's handy for the Italians north of Buq Buq! Turn 3 18th December 1940 I have sent the 20th Brigade by rail to Mersa Matruh. I need those Italian units at least screened so that others may move up. Having rested, I have ordered my Wellington bombers forward and given them interdiction mission orders. I have taken the opportunity of resting all fighters and bombers except my Gladiators, which remain ordered to achieve air superiority. Interdiction - Units assigned Interdiction Missions will attempt to intercept enemy Land units when those Land units move and also impair your opponent’s ability to supply his Force. Units performing Interdiction Missions are subject to Interdiction by enemy Air units with Air Superiority missions and are protected by friendly units with Air Superiority missions. Interdiction is less effective in poor weather and on night Turns. [image]local://upfiles/28156/485F50E47FFF48A6A00A650081FFC127.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 5:28:55 AM)
Turn 3 18th December 1940 According to the Expected Reinforcements chart, I do not lose further units for a couple of turns. That is good. Provided I get Sollum covered, I should have time to bring units up to prepare for the attack on Bardia (Do you, remember, the 21st night of September). [image]local://upfiles/28156/9C26605DBE764B96B741FC087D77FCF5.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 6:04:00 AM)
Turn 3 - Round 1 18th December 1940 This turn is mostly about movement - 70th Infantry and Selby force pushing toward Sollum. There are two attacks in this round as the 7th Armoured continue their laboured attacks against the Italians around El Hamra. The 7th and 8th Hussars and the 1st RTR provide the hitting power for these attacks against the Marmacia HQ and the 2nd CCNN artillery. The results are devastating for the Italians. 2 Rounds are used up in these attacks. [image]local://upfiles/28156/CB00FE2E68AD487392631AFB669B25D4.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 6:38:46 AM)
Turn 3 - Round 3 - 9 18th December 1940 The remaining attacks centred on the stragglers north of Sofafi and the newly arrived tank battalion. Most of the defenders are wiped out. One pesky engineer unit remains. The were no reasonable attacks possible against the Marmarcia and Cirene units but O'Connor hopes that Creagh will seek to renew relations with the Italians next turn with the aid of rested units and aircraft support.

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 4:19:54 PM)
It's never a good sign in a game you've never played before to find beating the AI pretty straightforward. If I was getting any sense that that was the situation here, then I've just been rudely disabused of that notion.... Turn 3 - Axis Turn 18th December 1940 Holy Crap! I've just been involved in the Mamma Mia of all battles!! The Libyan Tank Command piles into the fray - where the hell did they come from? - and destroy the 2nd Royal Tank Regiment. The Italian tanks then launch themselves at Sollum as part of the southern pincer of a two pronged attack against the British in and around the town. [image]local://upfiles/28156/C6D0AB07C2464620A907D70286561958.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 5:02:47 PM)
Turn 4 - Round 1 - 3 21st December 1940 A couple of quick attacks are made to thin out the tank units in the north and the remnants north of Sofafi. Operation 'steady the ship' then gets into full swing. There are 5 attacks ordered. These will likely take up to 3 or 4 rounds. In the north everything that can move around Sollum has been tasked with pushing back the Italians, while the Libyan tankers are (hopefully) contained. The Australian 6th Infantry Division get into the action quicker than expected and seek to eliminate the Libyan Tank HQ. Finally the 7th Armoured carry on doing what they have since the start..... [image]local://upfiles/28156/FE950EFDA1394825BF3F37E847D8D370.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/23/2017 5:24:06 PM)
Turn 4 Round 1-3 21st December 1940 I definitely need to understand the bigger battles better. This was a bit rubbish. Yes it was desperate given I didn't know what trouble the Italians could cause, but if the 10th Army has any appreciable reserves then the units around Sollum could be in trouble. [image]local://upfiles/28156/5D5290EA33744AA399A39DDFA9481EEF.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/24/2017 5:42:08 AM)
Turn 4 21st December 1940 Before going any further into the turn I wanted to take a big picture look at the Italian situation. To be honest they don't appear to have large numbers of troops left (unless there are more 10th Army units to come off-map and/or they bring 5th Army units from Tripolitania into play). That said, I think that I am going to be unable to stop much of the Cirene and Marmarcia units from escaping (if that is what the AI intends). In addition. from what I've seen so far, removing units from dug-in positions is not easy (or I don't make it easy [:D]). In real life the Commonwealth forces sealed the Italian fate at Beda Fomm (near where the Sirte Division are now) and cut-off the retreating units heading along the coast road. That has to be my aim, but I need the 7th Armoured in a position to do so - and not expend themselves on stupid attacks. Not sure exactly what the Saharan Group (about half a dozen or so battalions + artillery) are up to but there is only a Long Range Desert Group unit in the way to stop them. I need to keep an eye on them. It's Christmas time, there's no need to be afraid.... [image]local://upfiles/28156/1BD116732D184F1E8D82783058F64EF8.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/24/2017 6:16:08 PM)
Turn 4 - Rounds 3-10 21st December 1940 The end of turn business is really cheesing me off. I tried a couple of attacks in the 7th Armoured area. These were successful and got the defending Italians to retreat and I wasn't going to use much by way of Turn time. But an announcement came up at the end of the second battle that force proficiency had failed and that was the end of the go. No chance to take any pictures - the turn simply advanced.... again...[:(]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/24/2017 6:25:50 PM)
Turn 4 - Axis Turn 21st December 1940 The Italians continue to fight back..... [image]local://upfiles/28156/3AFEA792076C45A5A74B1829B3D5C910.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/25/2017 4:41:38 PM)
A Question please gents What does the Black and Orange circle mean? What does R:2 mean next to the Attack Strength (I notice some units have a +(no.) e.g. the Aussie infantry states 8 +3 - what does that mean?). Some units when attacked, don't ask you to plan, the computer simply carries out the attack. This could happen a number of times - attack, retreat, attack retreat - I've seen about 4-5 of these in one attack. What is that all about? These don't seem to be classed as battles on the reports either. Thank-you [image]local://upfiles/28156/A582544504FE4E56A5B71A4E34B195E3.jpg[/image]

larryfulkerson -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/25/2017 4:56:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 A Question please gents What does the Black and Orange circle mean? That means that the unit in question is out of supply. No LOC to it's supply source. quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 What does R:2 mean next to the Attack Strength Range is two hexes. quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 (I notice some units have a +(no.) e.g. the Aussie infantry states 8 +3 - what does that mean?). And 8 is the AP ( anti-personnal ) and the +3 means the AT is 3. quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Some units when attacked, don't ask you to plan, the computer simply carries out the attack. This could happen a number of times - attack, retreat, attack retreat - I've seen about 4-5 of these in one attack. What is that all about? That's what we call an RBC retreat before combat. The unit is overrun and gives way in a rout so to speak. quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Thank-you You're quite welcome. Keep it up with this fine AAR.

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/25/2017 6:36:31 PM)
Okay thank-you. I was getting confused over what was actually happening here. In the picture on the left it is the CW turn and the AI has retreated with about half a dozen 10th Army artillery units. These are 10th Army units. They are on the road leading to Tobruk (a Supply source) and the 10th Army HQ is nearby (just out of shot). That being the case I could not understand why these were out of supply given what I'd read and written previously. The picture on the right shows that these units are receiving supply - albeit in tiny amounts (a function no doubt of the supply calculation). However, I could not see why the supply numbers are so low. The supply lessens the further from the supply source (Tobruk), I get that. But am I right in saying that, unlike supply units, HQ don't boost supply - they help dish out supply but don't boost it? Also, am I right in thinking that despite the proximity to their HQ the artillery units have probably been hit by 'density'? All of which worsens the already poor Italian basic supply number. The HQ is actually in a Badlands hex which probably doesn't help. [image]local://upfiles/28156/9C112045951542F3B406BE9E079B8514.jpg[/image]

Olorin -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/25/2017 7:26:52 PM)
Something doesn't add up here. There are no CW units to the west of the Italian artillery, so they shouldn't be cut off and and black and orange sign shouldn't be there. According to the manual, adjacent HQs should boost supply by x1,5. The formula should be: Hex Supply * Formation Supply * HQ bonus * Moved malus So, the 4/1Ar Art should get: 11 * 0.6 * 1.5 * 0.67 = 6 units of supply each turn.

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/25/2017 8:02:57 PM)
There were eight 10th Army artillery pieces. One - the one next to the HQ - was in supply the turn that the other seven were showing out of supply. Here is the start of the Axis turn before. The seven out of supply units apparently began the turn out of supply (these are the units in the south 2 hexes south of the Corps HQ) - presumably because of British Zone of Control. The definition of LoC does not say that the ZoC is negated by an Italian ZoC. Could this be that at the start of the British turn (picture on the left above) they were in supply - but did not receive enough supply to remove the marker - something that was rectified by the start of their turn (picture on the right above)? Olorin in the formula you quote should there be a modifier for unit density? [image]local://upfiles/28156/1D1D590755184894B0433AE08B4F95E5.jpg[/image]

Olorin -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/25/2017 9:08:58 PM)
OK that explains it. Axis supply is calculated at the start of each Axis turn. At the start of Axis Turn 4, the Italian LOC is cut off by your ZOCs. Then in Axis Turn 5, they did not receive any supply. The AI moved them back and they should be resupplied at the start of Axis Turn 6. Tip: Destroyed unsupplied units are eliminated permanently from the game. Destroyed surrounded units that are still supplied (surrounded during the current turn) do return a few turns later, as cadres, filled by replacements from the pool (if available). Unit density: The manual doesn't state any particular modifier, it just says: "Note that this will mean that very dense locations will likely suffer some supply reduction due to added movement costs of that density condition". I would only worry about it if I see a red circle on the left of the counter, signifying a huge stack.

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/26/2017 6:03:19 AM)
Turn 5 25th December 1940 Right. So how does O'Connor knock Italy out of the war? or at least out of Cyrenaica? - that would be a start [;)] Now he knows those artillery pieces are out of supply he can order the Australians to pile into them and see if they can't remove them from the Italian order of battle. This would then allow them to isolate Bardia and start to reduce it. The 7th Armoured are allowing much of the Cirene and Marmarcia Divisions to get away, but if the Australians can do their bit west of Bardia, he could order the 70th Division to swing southwest to block the Italians retreat path. The Italian Saharan units are being a nuisance and have hit the LRDG. O'Connor will have to do something about them soon. O'Connor orders Major-General Mackay to begin the isolation of Bardia. This begins with a battalion attack on the retreating Italian artillery. The motorised infantry plough through the transport columns like a hot knife through butter. Buoyed by the success, a second battalion is ordered to assist the operation. On a couple of occasions the British were hindered by air strikes from the Regia Aeronuatica (picture 5) but these attacks did not delay the Australians. The attack only came to an end when they met artillery in prepared positions near the coast. Seven battalions of 10th Army artillery destroyed. Devastatin'! [image]local://upfiles/28156/FD04AE88D1F841F1999154E92933D621.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/26/2017 3:49:57 PM)
Turn 5 25th December 1940 Following on from the success against the 10th Army artillery, the remainder of 6th Australian Division separate into two. Seven battalions are ordered to operate against the Italian HQ. The remaining units head for Bardia. An attack by the British against the Italians south of Bardia sees the Italians pushed back toward the fortress. [image]local://upfiles/28156/9F7D6217246C4A55B7C9023553D270F7.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: Campaign For North Africa 40D-43 (11/26/2017 3:59:14 PM)
Turn 5 25th December 1940 To the south there was just one attack. The 2nd Armoured Division's 6th Royal Tank Regiment - supported by artillery push back a mixed Italian force. This attack and the earlier one has taken up 20% of the turn. Edit: Apologies - that is the wrong combat chart and description for that battle [8\|] [image]local://upfiles/28156/6F380E49D8A34893B6583F089132583F.jpg[/image]

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