RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW)

RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (Full Version)

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700851McCall -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/24/2018 7:30:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zorch Thank you, Warspite. Your experience has put me off buying TOAW IV. It seems a very frustrating game. I think you have got the wrong impression from this AAR. I've been wargaming since 1979, with the little lead figures, then the board wargames (of which I've still got a few dozen) and then onto the computer games. TOAW is easily the best WW2/modern simulation there is. There's a lot of depth to this game. Because of that it does tend to punish mistakes as they would be punished in reality. For me that's a good thing.

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 2:48:26 AM)
Turn 163 - Axis Turn 8th April 1942 Right, I'll have a quick look at the last Axis turn and then do a recap of where the game is right now. Firstly the turn was pretty costly, although the Axis contained their response with just 9 attacks/bombardments. There were two attacks (hexes circled) the southern most of which saw the 8th Hussars Regt. destroyed. In the northern hex the CW troops lost three AA batteries but the armour held its ground. The latter attack was costly for the Axis, in what would otherwise have been a relatively painless turn. The CW lost another 65 rifle/SMG squads, but also 56 precious tanks. The Axis infantry losses were 113, although only 10 tanks. The air war saw another three CW squadrons evaporate - although the actual losses table ended up remarkably similar, with the CW air forces just edging the numbers game: CW: Fighters - 45 lost (9 destroyed) Bombers - 18 lost (3 destroyed) Axis: Fighters - 46 lost (13 destroyed) Bombers - 19 lost (6 destroyed) [image]local://upfiles/28156/5A9748E0398F4D76987FBE203FFE27E2.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 3:02:20 AM)
Turn 163 8th April 1942 Turns remaining: 80 Enemy held objectives value: 249; Enemy loss penalty* 91 = 158 Friendly held objectives value 201; Friendly loss penalty* 46 = 155 = -3 + the Net victory point award: -25 (this was for capturing Tobruk and is permanent) Our victory level is -28 of 450. This is currently a draw. Victory Levels are as follows: Margin of Victory less than 90 = Draw Margin of Victory between 90 and 179 = Marginal Margin of Victory between 180 and 269 = Substantial Margin of Victory 270 or greater = Overwhelming * The objectives are listed in the documentation and relate to placed on the map to be taken. I've done a word search but can't see what the definition of the Loss Penalty is though.

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 3:38:12 AM)
Turn 163 8th April 1942 The frontline - the western and southern fronts have now effectively merged. [image]local://upfiles/28156/E795A3ECD8A646C8A8640664C65D75E9.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 3:41:33 AM)
Turn 163 8th April 1942 [image]local://upfiles/28156/BB20A36E96DA47BC8583117A4E647DC3.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 4:08:16 AM)
Turn 163 8th April 1942 Although the air losses were slightly in my favour last turn I still lost 3 squadrons to evaporation (Axis appear to have suffered none). I check on the situation.... ....and we're headed toward a full blown crisis. The Spitfire squadron has gone, the Hurricanes have no reserves and just 252 aircraft left. Uncomfortable.... [image]local://upfiles/28156/658A651FA4E347D5B29FB31A0D0221F1.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 4:37:25 AM)
Turn 163 8th April 1942 With all my armour committed, and over 50 tanks lost last turn I think it sensible to review my armour position. I wish it could be easier to read but.... Essentially I have about 1,000 tanks with just over 200 in reserve. However.... - current replacements are just 6 per turn - about a fifth of these are light tanks - some of the % may be out as the tanks may not all be authorised at the same time (1st RTR is an obvious example). Note how supposedly 4 armoured divisions, two tank brigades and an armoured brigade actually amount to about 6 actual brigades! There is no 10th Armoured HQ yet - one arrives later [image]local://upfiles/28156/F592FC37BB1F468C83F4268F18813606.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 8:38:30 AM)
Turn 163 8th April 1942 The big question is what to do now? Major panzer forces are near the mountains and so an obvious tactic would be to try and drive a wedge in the centre, between the coast road and the Quattara Depression. However, all units there - the 2nd Armoured Division, the 3rd Indian Motor Brigade and the 22nd Armoured Brigade have decided to reorganise - making any advance in the centre impossible. No less than 14 of my squadrons are reorganising so it wouldn't be wise to try to advance west anyway. Just 7 fighter squadrons are in any way (and that is a stretch) shape or form ready for combat..... With so many reorganising tank regiments in the front line, I expect the table above to be considerably thinned out next turn [:(] All that was left for me to do was send over 30 bombardments - which ranged from the totally ineffectual to the mildly irritating - and dig-in and pray.....

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 5:42:55 PM)
Turn 164 - Axis Turn (in real time) 11th April 1942 In the centre of the front the Axis retreat an AA unit and then I see a few units retreat - presumably these require some R+R South of Quattara the Italians have brought up infantry to threaten 161st Indian Brigade - damn I assumed that terrain was impassable and he would have to get me off the road.... More signs of units retreating in the area that used to mark the junction between western and southern fronts. The bombardments starts an an anti-tank battery evaporates, and then another one.... More reinforcements being brought up along the coast road and in the air then back to more bombardments - and another anti-tank battery simply disappears... as does a whole battalion of infantry... and a LAA battery... and another anti-tank battery Then the enemy moves up on the coast road The more bombardments - this is going to be nasty (as if all those evaporations aren't bad enough)....

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 6:00:39 PM)
Turn 164 - Axis Turn 11th April 1942 So it looks like there was no follow-up in the south. I'll take a look at the losses to the 16 bombardments. Another appalling turn for the CW - and the Axis made no attacks so my damage to them was negligible. The only crumb - and it is a crumb - of comfort was in the air where the Axis lost 64 aircraft (15 destroyed) while the CW lost 45 (14 destroyed). Once again the losses to infantry outstrip replacement (I can't actually remember the last time it didn't). 32 field guns, 15 AA and 5 anti-tank guns were lost (probably more because of evaporation), plus 88 machine guns, 44 mortars, 12 soft-skin vehicles and a tank. The army will soon be using donkeys and horses as the truck loss remains catastrophic.

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 7:35:39 PM)
Turn 164 11th April 1942 Right, first off let's explore this latest incursion. In red is the impassable terrain - or at least impassable to motorised units. The CW have few units that can enter this and it doesn't help that the Czechs are reorganising this turn, because of course if I can't enter the terrain then I can't attack into it either. I'll have to bring in what I can and am conscious that devoncop has a panzer battalion on the road south of my units.... [image]local://upfiles/28156/17B718348E8D45BD90198ED678C2A78C.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 7:51:23 PM)
Turn 164 11th April 1942 I attack a lone Italian battalion in no man's land between the two armies in order to try and increase the chances of my armour getting away without being engaged. I send in two 'recce' base units to find out where devoncop's defensive line is. The Germans were quite painlessly able to restore the line. He has some pretty big stacks but I can't take advantage because my artillery - what is left of it - is weak and low on supply. [image]local://upfiles/28156/3794C2343D4E45239CE0D886D0E90A06.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/25/2018 8:21:39 PM)
Turn 164 11th April 1942 ... speaking of which, I wonder if I should do an audit of my artillery given the losses I am suffering.... ...although sometimes ignorance is bliss. The situation is not good at all. I'm getting no anti-tank guns. This changes on turn 169 when I get just 10 6-pdrs per turn. My measly 5 field guns per turn increases to 7 on turn 166. Most strange is the AA situation. I get AA guns per turn but that ends on turn 197, after which, I get no more for the rest of the game.... [image]local://upfiles/28156/F143A89DA8A04B0A9EDACC3AC3BA7DA7.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/26/2018 6:19:10 AM)
Turn 164 11th April 1942 My initial task was to get my exposed armour out of the front line. This was achieved - as was the retreat of the infantry. The AA units suffered as per usual however. The next question is - how far do I retreat?..... I don't want to give up the airfield at El Hammam easily. The desert war was not known as a battle for the airfields without reason. His closest airfield is not that far away, but thereafter, the distances start to increase markedly.... The final positions.. [image]local://upfiles/28156/06B2E2A20FD94C509E1CFA5DCA9E3AAE.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 7:50:22 AM)
Turn 165 - Axis Turn (in real time) 15th April 1942 The turn starts with my recce unit being surrounded south of the Depression. I don't think these units came from the north so these are additional units I've not seen yet. devoncop has quite a force down there. He's also spotted my commando unit that tried to infiltrate the supply lines to the west of the Depression - this unit too is not long for this world... [image]local://upfiles/28156/EA9E9B2604634A2E90CD9A60B6291BF8.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 7:53:02 AM)
Turn 165 - Axis Turn (in real time) 15th April 1942 Next the Axis set about the units in the mountains to the north of Quattara. Italian units now engaging with the western from along the coastal plain Lots of reinforcement manoeuvres around the Bardia area taking the moves up to 1,094 and then the action switches back to the mountains My commando unit in the south is destroyed - annoyingly I can't see where the enemyare going as the camera hasn't panned out far enough [:@] My commando unit in the west retreats The bombardments start along the coastal road Back to the west my commando unit then retreats and is destroyed on the 3rd encounter Massed artillery is ranged against the western front and I spot more artillery being moved in the south and in the mountains. Large numbers of reinforcements moving along the coastal road just behind the front lines - some continuing east and some heading south before going out of sight The enemy units in the west that destroyed my commando unit are now heading along the track through the depression. This really is a major effort below the depression. Aircraft reinforcements now heard - the coastal airfield are filling up More bombardments - and a HAA unit evaporates [image]local://upfiles/28156/22C4D73BD4E24CCBB2DFA77CC6DD0C07.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 8:14:51 AM)
Turn 165 - Axis Turn 15th April 1942 The losses that turn were considerably lighter than recently. The enemy lost 11 rifle squads in taking out the two Long Range Desert Group detachments, and in the bombardments they lost just 4 aircraft (0 destroyed). Even in that light turn the CW lost another 30 rifle squads, 17 machine guns, 3 mortars, 2 AT guns, 4 AA , 9 soft-skin vehicles and 27 trucks. In addition they had a HAA units evaporate so more losses there too as well as the retreat before combats. [image]local://upfiles/28156/73AA165D09A5460E8B0EEF4AD661AFB8.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 8:20:36 AM)
Turn 165 15th April 1942 The Indian 5th Division decides to reorganise and so room for manoeuvre on the southern part of the front will be very limited. I decide not to retreat further this turn, it's going to be painful but the rate of retreat is just too high given the number of turns I have to try and survive for.

Curtis Lemay -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 2:01:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 [image]local://upfiles/28156/22C4D73BD4E24CCBB2DFA77CC6DD0C07.jpg[/image] Why don't you try hitting his airfields with your fleet? Maybe the Ju-87's will get it, but if you lose Alexandria it's gone anyway. One thing I hope to add to the game someday is a night movement option just for this situation. Edit: Oh, I forgot, the fleet goes into garrison once El Alamein falls. You should have tried it before that.

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 5:40:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 [image]local://upfiles/28156/22C4D73BD4E24CCBB2DFA77CC6DD0C07.jpg[/image] Why don't you try hitting his airfields with your fleet? Maybe the Ju-87's will get it, but if you lose Alexandria it's gone anyway. One thing I hope to add to the game someday is a night movement option just for this situation. Edit: Oh, I forgot, the fleet goes into garrison once El Alamein falls. You should have tried it before that. warspite1 See post 654. I did - albeit only once as I did not fancy playing gamey suicide missions until the RN were all sunk. Besides which, the main enemy here is the plethora of artillery that destroy whole battalions just by looking at them. The enemy air forces are a royal pain - but in comparison to the enemy artillery they are mere ****cats...

Zorch -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 6:07:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Curtis Lemay quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Edit: Oh, I forgot, the fleet goes into garrison once El Alamein falls. You should have tried it before that. NOW you tell him. [:D]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 8:28:37 PM)
Turn 166 - Axis Turn (in real time) 18th April 1942 The turn starts in the south with the evaporation of a air base unit. The Italians start moving up to the frontline with plenty of artillery in tow. The same MO from devoncop as in the north. Italians to soak up any potential counter, plenty of artillery and the Germans on hand when required. A couple of bombardments are launched - I can't see where yet - ah I think its on the coast - an RAF base unit evaporates More concerted bombardments in the north then a number of invisible moves and then aircraft reinforcements - I'm surprised the airfields have anymore room Back to the bombardments once again The axis launch an attack and an LAA evaporates - then more bombardments in both the north and south. Another base unit evaporates - a panzer battalion moves along the coast road More bombardments - and unsurprisingly a South African infantry battalion evaporates - the recce company with it retreats - and the panzers move in - more bombardments More aircraft being flown in before moving back to more bombardments All my aircraft are grounded, rested and out of the way. Yep, all of them.... but somehow a Kittyhawk squadron evaporates.... of course [8\|] Another LAA evaporates More bombardments and yet another battalion evaporates

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 8:48:34 PM)
Turn 166 - Axis Turn 18th April 1942 Its really difficult to see what can be done. We are not even at the point of the game where the Axis get their final big push. If I stand I get destroyed, if I move back I get destroyed and if I attack I get destroyed. Mmmm... there's a running theme here.... I will have to see if I can understand what happened to my fighter squadron too and how that managed to get evaporated when the aircraft were purposely held out of the way... I'll do a quick check on the losses but this will be UGLY. Those losses in infantry are bad enough, but the artillery losses are just devastating. The Axis lost a third of the infantry squads and the rest of their losses were not even worth mentioning. The only exception was their field gun losses which numbered 20. As suspected, the loss of the Kittyhawk nonsense was just that. It wasn't lost on an airfield attack it was lost in a combat at the front. This despite orders to rest and no squadron being anywhere near the front. Thanks [8\|]. At least the Axis appear to have lost more aircraft this turn - 39 (8 destroyed) compared with 30 (7 destroyed). [image]local://upfiles/28156/418D996DB59B4723A70AAE3E0CD2A740.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/27/2018 9:33:45 PM)
Turn 166 18th April 1942 Sadly the situation gets even worse when I move onto my turn. The remaining units of the 2nd South African Division (already lost are the HQ, 3 infantry battalions, the AT regiment, 2 reconnaissance regiments (less 1 company) and which doesn't get reconstituted is now reorganising - right in front of the advancing Axis on the coast road....it's looking grimmer by the minute... [image]local://upfiles/28156/20C0B3857E0A4822902B6E7D4AD1BAC6.jpg[/image]

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/28/2018 4:42:04 AM)
Turn 166 18th April 1942 A check on the air situation show a slightly improved position - certainly from the nadir of Turn 161 when I was able to field just 205 operational bombers. Even so, the fighter nos. are only creeping back up and losing a squadron for no good reason is really irritating. I guess when placing aircraft to rest and away from the front, I will also need to reduce their range to zero in the hope that they won't fly. In the next three turns I get 6 fighter squadrons. Its a tall order but if I can not lose anymore aircraft in that time, then by the time the enemy is at El Hammam (I need to stop him getting this forward airfield) then I can pack Amirya with anything that flies for an armoured counter attack. I will continue to ensure my armour is dispersed as they won't have fighter cover in the meantime (but the armour has not been devoncops target to now anyway). [image]local://upfiles/28156/CDD52E7AD04146218D8E59EE49D3D22C.jpg[/image]

sapper32 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/28/2018 8:38:54 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Turn 165 - Axis Turn (in real time) 15th April 1942 Next the Axis set about the units in the mountains to the north of Quattara. Italian units now engaging with the western from along the coastal plain Lots of reinforcement manoeuvres around the Bardia area taking the moves up to 1,094 and then the action switches back to the mountains My commando unit in the south is destroyed - annoyingly I can't see where the enemyare going as the camera hasn't panned out far enough [:@] My commando unit in the west retreats The bombardments start along the coastal road Back to the west my commando unit then retreats and is destroyed on the 3rd encounter Massed artillery is ranged against the western front and I spot more artillery being moved in the south and in the mountains. Large numbers of reinforcements moving along the coastal road just behind the front lines - some continuing east and some heading south before going out of sight The enemy units in the west that destroyed my commando unit are now heading along the track through the depression. This really is a major effort below the depression. Aircraft reinforcements now heard - the coastal airfield are filling up More bombardments - and a HAA unit evaporates [image]local://upfiles/28156/22C4D73BD4E24CCBB2DFA77CC6DD0C07.jpg[/image] Hmmmm a large battle occurring in the Depresion surely that can't be right it should be a no go area for all but special forces

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/28/2018 4:22:12 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sapper32 quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Turn 165 - Axis Turn (in real time) 15th April 1942 Next the Axis set about the units in the mountains to the north of Quattara. Italian units now engaging with the western from along the coastal plain Lots of reinforcement manoeuvres around the Bardia area taking the moves up to 1,094 and then the action switches back to the mountains My commando unit in the south is destroyed - annoyingly I can't see where the enemyare going as the camera hasn't panned out far enough [:@] My commando unit in the west retreats The bombardments start along the coastal road Back to the west my commando unit then retreats and is destroyed on the 3rd encounter Massed artillery is ranged against the western front and I spot more artillery being moved in the south and in the mountains. Large numbers of reinforcements moving along the coastal road just behind the front lines - some continuing east and some heading south before going out of sight The enemy units in the west that destroyed my commando unit are now heading along the track through the depression. This really is a major effort below the depression. Aircraft reinforcements now heard - the coastal airfield are filling up More bombardments - and a HAA unit evaporates [image]local://upfiles/28156/22C4D73BD4E24CCBB2DFA77CC6DD0C07.jpg[/image] Hmmmm a large battle occurring in the Depresion surely that can't be right it should be a no go area for all but special forces warspite1 There's no large battle in the depression. There is large scale - inc panzers - south of the depression (which I question) but couldn't say definitely to what extent that should be impossible/limited. It strike me that if it were possible then its the sort of thing Rommel would have tried but he didn't so.....

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/28/2018 6:28:22 PM)
Turn 166 18th April 1942 The turn is spent evaporating one of the Italian companies seeking to outflank me south of the Quattara Depression and then bombarding the unit to the southeast. Now all that is left to do is build the coffins for the South Africans... [image]local://upfiles/28156/7D02DF6FBAAC4785B3C2B0300D27FFD3.jpg[/image]

Zorch -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/28/2018 8:04:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 quote: ORIGINAL: sapper32 quote: ORIGINAL: warspite1 Turn 165 - Axis Turn (in real time) 15th April 1942 Hmmmm a large battle occurring in the Depresion surely that can't be right it should be a no go area for all but special forces warspite1 There's no large battle in the depression. There is large scale - inc panzers - south of the depression (which I question) but couldn't say definitely to what extent that should be impossible/limited. It strike me that if it were possible then its the sort of thing Rommel would have tried but he didn't so..... Sufficient quantities of Prozac will empower the troops to fight in the Depression. Failing that Scotch and Whisky will do.

warspite1 -> RE: CFNA 1940-43 devoncop (Axis) vs warspite1 (CW) (3/30/2018 11:54:09 AM)
Turn 167 - Axis Turn (in real time) 22nd April 1942 The turn begins with the German Oasis battalion(s) moving into the gap left by the destroyed Italian unit. The main stack of German units in that area - including the panzer battalion - move west. I can't see where they went but that is an interesting development..... There are then a lot of reinforcement moves through the Jebel area before attention switches to the western front. Massed artillery move up and the bombardment of the hapless South African forces begins. An entire field artillery regiment evaporates (note this is a 1st South African unit 4 hexes behind the lines)... Reinforcements move into the southern front too and the bombardments continue all along the front. To the southwest of the Quattara Depression an RAF airbase unit evaporates. I understand from devoncop he suffered a proficicency test fail... thank goodness. Who knows what the bill would have been otherwise? There were no losses to the Axis ground forces, although AA accounted for 13 bombers (3 destroyed). [image]local://upfiles/28156/8F2777D7F3BA49A9A51C72198D6253C0.jpg[/image]

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