RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (Full Version)

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Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 7:36:31 PM)

Turn 106, 6/24/42 AGC

Steady advance on wide frontage. The enemy can’t offer serious resistance. They are just trying to delay our advance.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/AAD9C274DA8E4A519AA9FAE670BE51AB.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 7:43:35 PM)

Turn 106, 6/24/42 AGB

We are making progress. Our next goals are Don bridges at Kalach and Krasny Don. Most of the 6th Armee divisions are over 150 km behind. It’s important to maintain supply levels. I don’t want to march all my divisions to exhaustion.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/C926B09F65754736838024DE1EA1BD82.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 7:48:28 PM)

Turn 106, 6/24/42 AGA

Rostov is captured! We have crossed Don River on several locations. 23rd PzD is nearing Proletarskaya. They are going to cut Krasnodar-Stalingrad railroad.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/09C2DEF1F7AF432894739D50F27857CA.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 8:01:17 PM)

Turn 108, 7/1/42 AGC

39th Panzer Korps penetrated the enemy line near Podolsk. It seems out attack was a surprise. We managed to capture Oka River bridges at Kolomna and Ozery.

Meanwhile our advance continued on the southern flank. Novomoskovsk, Chaplygin, Michurinsk and Lipetsk were captured.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/D29F1FA567D54D2984593B3508350E25.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 8:08:39 PM)

Turn 108, 7/1/42 AGB

We have crossed the Don River. SS Totenkopf Division captured Kalach after a short fight. 23rd PzD captured Krasny Don by surprise. The enemy did not expect we could advance so fast. They had not fortified the river line. There is only 80 km to Stalingrad.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/3A8BCCE857954039B9DA0842C22F89DB.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 8:18:39 PM)

Turn 108, 7/1/42 AGA

Our panzers are moving South full speed. We have covered over 150 km in a week. 23rd PzD captured Stavropol. There is a large airport there. Luftwaffe is going to fly supplies to our troops.

Our next objectives are Amavir and Nevinnomyssk. If we can cut the railroad the enemy can’t supply Krasnodar area by train.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/C2EC259BB8BE4BC9B4F8A447EE012079.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 8:34:59 PM)

Turn 109, 7/5/42 AGC

We have managed to surround Soviet 4th and 49th Armies near Tula. 12th PzD is on the outskirts of Ryazan. 10th Mororized Division captured Mikhaylov.

On the southern flank we have almost reached our objectives. Divisions are going to dig in. The enemy is weak in this area, but we don’t want to overextend. Hungarian divisions are very fragile when readiness is low.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/44004913B5F3492DAD5DA30757A99EB1.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 8:50:35 PM)

Turn 109, 7/5/42 AGB

Supply situation is difficult. Our troops east of Don are overextended. Railhead is over 200 km behind.

It looks like Stalingrad is weakly defended right now. We are going try to capture the city fast, despite the lack of supplies. 6th Armee divisions are arriving with good readiness.

The Soviet 62nd Army is on small area near Kalach. Both flanks are exposed. We are going to surround and destroy 62nd Army. We don’t want to let those divisions withdraw to the city.

40th PzK is preparing to cross Don near Ilovlya Station.




[image]local://upfiles/53085/57A252C086D84801A185F4D781DB4882.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (2/28/2018 9:02:42 PM)

Turn 109, 7/5/42 AGA

We have captured Armavir and Nevinnomyssk. Railroad to Krasnodar is broken.

The supply situation is difficult. However, the enemy is so weak we must go on and overextend. We are trying to capture Maykop oilfields by surprise.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/CF898322EF1840F7855285D8D5E82D23.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:10:19 AM)

Turn 110, 7/8/42 AGC

Ryazan is captured, armament factories are in our hands. We are destroying the remnants of the enemy armies in this area. Most of our troops have reached objectives. It’s time to resupply.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/5C40D80961A04201A9046D6EC93AF9A1.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:12:01 AM)

Turn 110, 7/8/42 AGB

We advance on both flanks. The 62nd Army is surrounded near Kalach.

Our infantry captures Ilovlya Station and a nearby bunker line. This was an important victory. Now it’s much easier to continue north once we have captured Stalingard.

The situation on the southern flank is even better. Soviet units are destroyed, and our troops move through the gap. Our recon companies are in the suburbs of Stalingrad. The enemy is weak. Is it possible to capture the city by surprise?


[image]local://upfiles/53085/58621BDE16A64266AC6FB71E8A6B3BFF.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:13:27 AM)

Turn 110, 7/8/42 AGA

We are driving forward. 23rd PzD reached outskirts of Cherkessy. 11th PzD recon battalion is only 30 km from Maykop oilfields.

Meanwhile 1st Geb. Division reached Kuban River near Krasnodar. There are two soviet divisions in the city. It’s not possible to capture Krasnodar by surprise.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/8D5D0EE8FD9040E3B2C9267A28790C76.jpg[/image]



Kursk1943 -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:38:09 AM)

[sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif]
Very impressive! And it's only July 1942, still lots of time till autumn rasputiza. I wonder how far you will get until then, escpecially in the Caucasus. Next stop after Stalingrad will be Saratow?
Keys of your success seem to be clever supply management, creating reserves and encircling the enemy whenever possible.



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 11:11:12 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kursk1943

[sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif][sm=happy0065.gif]
Very impressive! And it's only July 1942, still lots of time till autumn rasputiza. I wonder how far you will get until then, escpecially in the Caucasus. Next stop after Stalingrad will be Saratow?
Keys of your success seem to be clever supply management, creating reserves and encircling the enemy whenever possible.


Thanks! Saratov may be too far before rasputitza. I'm planning straight line: Ryazan - Tambov - Borisoglebsk - Kamyshin. Supply situation is weak near Stalingrad. Rail repair is slow. Railhead is going to arrive Stalingrad sometime late August, early September.

Supply is going to limit my advance in the Caucasus. I have calculated that railhead is going to be near Mozdok in October. It is possible to take Grozny and reach Caspian Sea. Baku? No way.



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 11:42:34 AM)

Situation on 7/8/42 after 110 turns.

AGN: The situation remains stable. The enemy is attacking near Volkhov. Our line holds without much trouble. We are bombarding enemy units every day.

AGC: Ryazan is captured. Most of our objectives have been reached. Units are going defensive.

AGB: We are in the suburbs of Stalingrad. The next week is going to be decisive. Are we going to capture the city before we run out of supplies?

AGA: The supply situation is terrible. We can’t go much further East. Railhead is still north of Rostov. It will take time before supply improves. We are trying to reach mountains. We have been planning a landing over Kerch Strait to Kuban Peninsula.

Losses in the first 110 turns: (last 5 turns in parenthesis) [replacements in 5 turns]

63089 (+2015) Heavy Rifle Squads [repl 2155]
6874 (+58) Rifle Squad – Rum [repl 280]
2526 (+150) Rifle Squad – Hun [repl 155]
5093 (+3) Rifle Squad – Fin [repl 125]
938 (+0) Rifle Squad – Ita [repl 90]
8861 (+177) Engineer Squads [repl 225]
2077 (+113) Panzers (all types) [repl 425]
2782 (+101) Fighters (all types) [repl 205]
552 (+64) Stukas & Hs-129 [repl 75]
2760 (+108) Bombers (all types) [repl 105]

Railroads are on the map in cyan.

[image]local://upfiles/53085/73EA59853C3B43BAAD431899E4333F72.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 11:49:47 AM)

Let's think about the big picture. We are winning. We have Leningrad, Moscow, soon Stalingrad and Caucasus oil. Soviet Union has lost, they just don’t accept it yet.

I have a question to you. I have played this game to turn 118 (8/5/42). What would the German high command do early August 1942 to support African theater? I want to maintain our position in the Mediterranean. Should I reinforce Rommel with additional panzerdivision? (or Korps?) Italian divisions? Is it possible to supply more divisions in Africa? Or should I send Luftwaffe squadrons? Maybe 120 fighters and 120 level bombers?

Or is it impossible to hold Libya in the long run?

What units would you send to Mediterranean?

[image]local://upfiles/53085/A691E383533844BF9A2E7078BDEB64F3.jpg[/image]



Edwire -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 3:52:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jukipo

Let's think about the big picture. We are winning. We have Leningrad, Moscow, soon Stalingrad and Caucasus oil. Soviet Union has lost, they just don’t accept it yet.

I have a question to you. I have played this game to turn 118 (8/5/42). What would the German high command do early August 1942 to support African theater? I want to maintain our position in the Mediterranean. Should I reinforce Rommel with additional panzerdivision? (or Korps?) Italian divisions? Is it possible to supply more divisions in Africa? Or should I send Luftwaffe squadrons? Maybe 120 fighters and 120 level bombers?

Or is it impossible to hold Libya in the long run?

What units would you send to Mediterranean?

[image]local://upfiles/53085/A691E383533844BF9A2E7078BDEB64F3.jpg[/image]


Interesting question. From your current AGA position, it's only a matter of time before Caucasus is in Axis hands, threatening British Iran & Persia. Britain will need to divert significant troops to guard Persia, or even enter Caucasus to help Soviet directly, therefore Monty will not have enough troops for the 2nd Battle of El-Alamien by October. Both side in Egypt will sit at stalemate.

Hence, OKH/OKW interest IMO will be to thrust as fast as possible to Persia, and persuade Turkey to join Axis, or at least allow troop access. However, OKH/OKW will need to send at least few Korps to fight "Torch" landing.



TPOO -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 5:04:43 PM)

Well In Directive 21 Turkey joins the Axis once you capture Makhachkala. So at that point the British probably would have bomb the Baku oil fields like they were planning to do in 1940 before Germany invaded France. If Turkey joins the Axis then Turkey itself could have threatened the British position in the Western Mediterranean and the Germans could have been allowed to send a Panzer group through Turkey to Palestine. If that did not happen I sure the first step would have been to send fighter and bomber groups to deal with the British Navy and take them out of the Mediterranean. Once that is done then the rest is easy. All said the British position in the middle east would be in dire straits no matter what at that point.



700851McCall -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 5:05:05 PM)

Supplying troops in Africa was the big issue for the Axis. The global plan once the Soviets were dealt with was to move down into the middle east from the Caucasus and advance on Egypt from there.

Fantastic AAR btw I have learned a lot from it.



DanNeely -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:40:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Jukipo

Let's think about the big picture. We are winning. We have Leningrad, Moscow, soon Stalingrad and Caucasus oil. Soviet Union has lost, they just don’t accept it yet.

I have a question to you. I have played this game to turn 118 (8/5/42). What would the German high command do early August 1942 to support African theater? I want to maintain our position in the Mediterranean. Should I reinforce Rommel with additional panzerdivision? (or Korps?) Italian divisions? Is it possible to supply more divisions in Africa? Or should I send Luftwaffe squadrons? Maybe 120 fighters and 120 level bombers?

Or is it impossible to hold Libya in the long run?

What units would you send to Mediterranean?



Lots of air power to Sicily, possibly paratroops. German successes in North Africa generally occurred when massed air attacks shut the British at Malta down and brought the island to the brink of starvation. Conversely whenever the Luftwaffe was needed elsewhere, the RAF recovered and with the help of Enigma to make sure their recon planes just happened to find whatever ships were carrying whatever Rommel needed most desperately and made sure they didn't arrive leaving the Africa Corps desperately short of supplies.

The Germans were planning to take the island via airborne assault; but cancelled the plan in reaction to the heavy losses suffered on Crete. I don't know if it would still be feasible to take the island at this point in time or not; arguably this should only come down to the allied presence on the island since OKH could've decided that the situation in the east was going well enough to've started training additional paratroops months ago. But as long as the Brits had an unsinkable aircraft carrier is lodged against Rommel's supply lines sending additional troops to north Africa probably isn't logistically viable.



DanNeely -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:51:18 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Edwire


Interesting question. From your current AGA position, it's only a matter of time before Caucasus is in Axis hands, threatening British Iran & Persia. Britain will need to divert significant troops to guard Persia, or even enter Caucasus to help Soviet directly, therefore Monty will not have enough troops for the 2nd Battle of El-Alamien by October. Both side in Egypt will sit at stalemate.

Hence, OKH/OKW interest IMO will be to thrust as fast as possible to Persia, and persuade Turkey to join Axis, or at least allow troop access. However, OKH/OKW will need to send at least few Korps to fight "Torch" landing.


I think the biggest problem with Torch is that the Germans couldn't move into Algeria or Morocco without cancelling the fiction that Vichy France had any degree of nominal independence; and would run the risk of large scale troop defections to the free french or even an uprising on the mainland. As it was the Vichy govt folded militarily when the Germans moved in; but a large scale uprising would've been a disaster for the Germans even if quickly suppressed.



DanNeely -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/1/2018 10:55:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: TPOO

Well In Directive 21 Turkey joins the Axis once you capture Makhachkala.


That should probably be mentioned somewhere in the scenario documents. How many Turkish units join the Axis if that happens?



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 6:54:14 PM)

quote:

Well In Directive 21 Turkey joins the Axis once you capture Makhachkala.


That's good to know. It may be possible to take Makhachkala before rasputitsa.



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 7:06:35 PM)

quote:

Lots of air power to Sicily, possibly paratroops. German successes in North Africa generally occurred when massed air attacks shut the British at Malta down and brought the island to the brink of starvation. Conversely whenever the Luftwaffe was needed elsewhere, the RAF recovered and with the help of Enigma to make sure their recon planes just happened to find whatever ships were carrying whatever Rommel needed most desperately and made sure they didn't arrive leaving the Africa Corps desperately short of supplies.


I agree. The supply was the problem in Africa. It would make no sense to send more ground troops. I'm going to send some air units to Sicily.

Let's hope Turkey joins the Axis later this year. If Turkey doesn't join by November, I'm going to send one panzer division after the Second Battle of El Alamein.



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 7:35:19 PM)

Turn 111, 7/12/42 AGB

Axis shock effects wear off. We have used all extra supplies stockpiled for this offensive. Our supply level is normal again. Our forces east of Don are seriously overextended. Fortunately, the enemy is weak. Most of out infantry divisions have some supply on hand. It may be possible to take Stalingrad before we run out of supply.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/19C1C680C1E7482CB9E98D4BF193CC51.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 7:36:16 PM)

Turn 111, 7/12/42 AGA

We are seriously overextended. We are receiving some supply to Tikhoretsk and Stavropol airport. On the frontline supply level is almost zero. We have captured Pyatigorsk and Georgiyevsk. The enemy recaptured Petrovskoye.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/02984DF92DD845A7AB75EAE561008C04.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 7:53:47 PM)

Turn 112, 7/15/42 AGB

We have captured the southern half of Stalingrad. There is only one enemy rifle division in the city. Most of our units are out of supply. 370th Infantry Division is our only fresh division east of Don. Next few days are going to be crucial.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/08D89D5A6E0F4802AFC2A70D47FCC099.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 8:07:45 PM)

Turn 112, 7/15/42 AGA

Several local enemy counterattacks. We had to commit most of our reserves. Petrovskoye is recaptured.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/579040C5C71C4284932A7D330803FFF3.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 8:17:42 PM)

Turn 112, 7/15/42 AGC

The offensive is over in this sector. Units are resupplying.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/8E71BB045F6C4A5BAA4A08AF650422B7.jpg[/image]



Jukipo -> RE: Thriumph or Tragedy? (D21) (3/2/2018 9:21:34 PM)

Turn 113, 7/19/42 AGB

Stalingrad is captured! Infantry divisions capture the city after a bitter street fight.


[image]local://upfiles/53085/12997411F9C24ECF9C96FAA00970B907.jpg[/image]



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