RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 3

RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 3 (Full Version)

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John B. -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 3 (3/11/2019 12:02:49 AM)
Thanks for doing this AAR. I really appreciate the commentary on what's going on and how to use the game system. It's very helpful for those of us who don't play the game but like reading the AARs!

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 3 (3/11/2019 3:39:01 PM)
Thank you John B, the goal of this is to provide illustrations of some game concepts. Also, hopefully we get far enough along in the game that we can show how things change when the Soviets begin to be able to build stronger units.

thedoctorking -> TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 7:56:09 PM)
TTG Neutral AAR, Soviet Turn 3 Turn 3 did not see any dramatic moves on the part of the Soviets, as they continued their rapid withdrawal in the south and strengthened their defenses in the north and center. In the north, the turn began with the appearance of powerful German infantry forces concentrated in front of Riga and to the west of the Polotsk region. A scattering of German mobile forces connected the two armies. [image]local://upfiles/56634/6265D885E8764F198A070D48B72693E2.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 7:56:51 PM)
The Soviets elected to leave their powerful garrison in Riga, obviously gambling that the combined power of an entire German army will be unable to budge them. This is a dangerous gamble. If they lose, those three fine divisions are doomed. The Soviet player may not realize that his defenders in Riga will not retreat by sea if the Germans leave a Soviet-controlled hex on land adjacent to the city. Since they could not capture the hex to the NE of the city without bringing armor back, it is unlikely that the Riga garrison will survive a German victory next turn. To the east, the concentration of German infantry east of Polotsk did not provoke a countervailing Russian deployment of powerful units in that sector. Instead, the Soviets worked on making their defenses along the Lovat to the north up to Pskov more coherent. Keeping fronts together is a good thing. Defending Pskov as best you can is a good thing. But it doesn’t look like the Germans are going that way, at least not right away. The German mobile forces were not as badly hit by isolation this turn as last, although one HQ was displaced by an isolated Soviet armored division, potentially interfering with supplies to one of the German panzer corps. [image]local://upfiles/56634/F4A8AC55E30B4A9BB55D19A53D5E4DA6.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 7:57:55 PM)
In the center, the turn began with the Berezina pockets much more strongly held than last turn. German mobile forces did not appear to move very far this turn, especially 3rd Panzer Group on the northern end of AGC’s line. This presents the possibility that they either did an HQBU, somewhat earlier than one would normally expect, or at a minimum that they conserved fuel supplies for more rapid movement next turn. Much of the German infantry in this sector is still back in western Belarus breaking up the first turn pockets, but a mixed bag of infantry units has arrived within one move of the front northeast of Minsk. One of 2nd Panzer Group’s regiments has driven southeast into the swamps, apparently trying to cut the rail line and further hamper the escape of the mobile forces from the south. Everyone is happy to see his opponents’ armor move into the swamps. In this case, though, Soviet armor will have to move through and without rail movement it will be several turns getting through. [image]local://upfiles/56634/D5C81F24D91D43A194B643B7505BF26D.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 7:58:50 PM)
Although the Soviets had powerful forces in the area, they did not seek to open the pockets and instead strengthened their defensive lines in the land bridge region and behind the Dnepr. Meanwhile, the armor moved northeast into the swamps from the south, with only two divisions providing a screen to the east to prevent an Axis move to complete the pocket next turn. [image]local://upfiles/56634/D3785299E3A4407C877428642005F3F5.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 7:59:50 PM)
Soviet southern front faced a widely scattered German mobile screen stretching across their front. A small pocket along the Yuzhny Bug held a half dozen divisions. Many of the German mobile divisions appeared vulnerable to isolation or counter attack. Almost all the German infantry in this region is still back in western Ukraine, wrapping up the first-turn pockets. Romanian infantry, with a few German divisions in support, advanced on Odessa. [image]local://upfiles/56634/2B6E32CF15344C8DAA895F3C6876D796.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 8:00:56 PM)
Soviet southern sector command continued its retreat and sent more forces to central sector to bolster the defenses on the land bridge. A thin picket line prevents a German move directly on the industrial cities of the south or across the Dnepr. Odessa has a powerful garrison, but no attempt has been made to hold a larger defensive perimeter that would threaten a breakout or present a real obstacle to the advancing Romanians. [image]local://upfiles/56634/54FB3353E8A44D7B9A77A0EA9A6F8DBC.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/29/2019 8:02:18 PM)
In general, Soviet air bases have withdrawn well behind the lines. The Axis have not been doing much bombing of Soviet air bases, but the Soviets are taking no chances. Looking at battle reports, the Axis are doing the (by now) time-honored tactic of “recon spam”, where the enormous stock of German short-range recon aircraft fly many missions in an attempt to draw Soviet fighters up, expending fuel and ammo and raising fatigue. At the same time, from looking at the Soviet reaction to these observation missions, the Axis player can assess the readiness of Soviet air defenses and the location of anti-aircraft guns. When interceptions get less common, the Axis can then begin to fly bombing missions secure in the knowledge that the Soviet fighter force has shot its wad. Soviet fighters are getting plenty of experience and morale in the process of shooting at (and sometimes shooting down) the recon planes, but this tactic can give the Axis a couple of months effectively free of Soviet air defenses at the front. Because of these two factors, air losses on both sides have been relatively light so far. This is not a good thing for the Soviets. Instead of losing 272 planes to the Axis 47, they should lose 600 to the Axis 100. It’s possible that the intensity of air combat will increase in coming turns as the Luftwaffe advances its bases, bringing them within range of Soviet airbase strikes, and as Soviet defenses toughen. Overall losses were 20,054 Axis to 297,633 Soviet – mostly in the collapsing first-turn pockets. Total deployed forces were 3,577,763 Soviet to 3,345,253 German (9,053 to 3,437 in the air)

Fetterkrolle -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/30/2019 11:26:29 AM)
In the North I cut of a panzer division aswell. The one that was near the Latvian town of Rezekne. I did it by moving one of the airborne brigades into enemy hex and moved it back to defensive line

SparkleyTits -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/30/2019 12:03:28 PM)
I'm not recon spamming to affect the Soviet air in any way, I just have OCD with getting as good vision as possible If anything by using so much recon it will actually be helping the Soviet EXP levels from intercepting successfully!

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (3/30/2019 11:41:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SparkleyTits I'm not recon spamming to affect the Soviet air in any way, I just have OCD with getting as good vision as possible If anything by using so much recon it will actually be helping the Soviet EXP levels from intercepting successfully! Yeah, I noticed that they are getting some quite good experience levels in some of those rear-area fighter groups, which must have come from flying against recon missions. They have a regiment with I-153's with like 81 experience.

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (4/3/2019 5:12:28 AM)
Reposting Fetterkrolle's turn 3 comments in their proper place: [image]local://upfiles/56634/F4882FFEFB144CD0A5EBFC76875C974E.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 3 (4/3/2019 5:13:07 AM)
And he continues [image]local://upfiles/56634/4688CD6A7BF0456C89F4E0590E8FEE58.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:29:12 AM)
TTG Neutral AAR, Axis turn 4 Axis turn 4 was a turn of preparation for big strikes in the future rather than for any dramatic moves. The Axis carried out their first headquarters buildups (HQBU) in Army Group Center, captured the strategic strongpoint of Riga, chased fleeing Soviet units in the swamp sector, and harassed the thin screen of Soviets in the south. In the north, the Germans faced a difficult situation with the Latvian capital of Riga strongly fortified and powerful defenses around Pskov. Their pre-turn orders from OKH were to cover the flank of Army Group Center’s advance into the land bridge region by capturing Polotsk, hopefully unhinging the Soviet defense along the upper Dnepr. [image]local://upfiles/56634/52EA46AE888340509301D0353A79A4F4.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:30:01 AM)
I found the results of the attack on Riga, by the combined strength of 18th Army, surprisingly close. The final odds were exactly 2.00:1, just what was needed to take the city. Looking at the detailed battle results, a few things stand out. First, the Soviet commander, Ksenofontov, is second-rate: 5 Morale, 4 Infantry, 4 Initiative. He’s also a long way away, back in Pskov. This meant that the Soviets effectively got no bonus from leadership other than a 5 in 12 chance of making a morale roll – Morale is not affected by range. Also, the HQ could not send any support units to the fight, being more than five hexes distant. The only Soviet SU in the fight are the AA units assigned to the city itself. The Soviet units were also under different commands. One division was under 27th Army, which was Ksenofontov’s parent formation, and only suffered a 3% subtraction for divided command, though it was additionally penalized for not being under the lowest possible command level. This is a feature of the very earliest turns until the corps HQ’s are automatically disbanded, something that Soviet players often ignore in the interest of putting their units under superior commanders at the Army level. The other Soviet division, the 90th Rifle, was under a different corps and suffered a 16% subtraction. On the other hand, the extremely powerful German artillery and air support had a limited effect. I think this is a result of the terrain effects. In open country, 79 bombing missions plus a half-dozen artillery SU would have disrupted far more than 208 elements of the defenders. If you look at the final CV totals, it is 2640 to 1316. The Soviets took somewhat less than a 50% hit from their initial CV, probably because they made their morale roll, failed their infantry roll (almost impossible to make at that distance) and then suffered considerable reductions from German artillery, air support and (most importantly) casualties (Soviet casualties are increased during the first several turns as part of the initial surprise effect). The Germans apparently made one of their two rolls. Their commander, Model, is the best the Germans have with 9 morale, 9 infantry, but that still gives him only a 4/9 chance of making both rolls. They suffered a small reduction from their limited casualties and had a few elements disrupted, by that city-based AAA and maybe intrinsic artillery in the Soviet divisions. I loaded the game up as the Axis, tried to duplicate the German moves, and made the attack five times. The Soviet defenses held three out of five times, meaning that there is something going on here that I don’t understand. Results ranged from 3.49:1 (easy Axis victory) to 1:1.29 (humiliating defeat). As foreshadowed, the Soviet defenders did retreat to the still-Soviet controlled hex to the northeast, instead of taking ship for Leningrad, leaving them almost certainly doomed next turn. [image]local://upfiles/56634/4B69EB8AC78046CC978F6418D022FD45.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:32:22 AM)
In the Polotsk region, 16th Army’s infantry was able to cross the river and make a few deliberate attacks against the none-too-strong defenders in that area. Then, XXXXI Panzer Corps swept in from the northwest and pushed into the city, though they did not break the line. Soviet defenses in the area do not appear strong enough to stop 16th Army’s advance next turn absent significant reinforcement that will probably not be forthcoming. [image]local://upfiles/56634/F8197A255D73405D99437991CA00A037.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:33:11 AM)
In the Army Group Center sector, the Germans faced a strong defensive line in the land bridge sector and a solid line of single divisions behind the Dnepr to the south and Dvina to the north. One Soviet division in the land bridge area showed 60 morale, perhaps the first of the Siberian divisions to arrive at the front. German armored forces in the region were not strong enough to make significant inroads there, and most had movement allowances in the teens or twenties, further limiting their effectiveness. German infantry was at least a turn away from the Soviet main line of resistance. Farther south, Soviet armor and motorized forces fleeing from the western Ukraine entered the swamps, with little or no Soviet forces committed to holding their escape route open to the east. This offered an opportunity for the scattered Germans south of Minsk to push into the swamps and cut them off. [image]local://upfiles/56634/0710A9232AC44DADB1AB43906F883070.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:34:28 AM)
Army Group Center used the accumulated stock of Administrative Points (AP) to do HQBU’s for three panzer corps, both of 3rd Panzer Group’s corps and one from 2nd Panzer Group. Infantry from 9th and 4th Armies moved up to the Soviet land bridge position, while another corps of 4th Army pushed into the swamps from the north. One panzer corps of 1st Panzer Group came in from the south, but due to the difficult terrain and the presence of a few unsuspected Soviet units on the southern side of the Mozyr clearing, the two pincers were not able to make contact. The proper units for pushing through the swamps are infantry, and a detachment of 17th Army’s infantry have arrived at the southern side of the swamps, but they were too far behind to participate this turn. Next turn in this sector should be a doozy, though, with three fully-supplied panzer corps backing up a full field army and part of two others confronting the Soviet main resistance in the center. The race between the fleeing Soviet and advancing German tanks in the swamps will be a comedy, as both sides will bog down from poor supply and terrible terrain. They may still be wading around in there come winter (not really – but several turns of fruitless splashing around probably lie ahead, especially if the Soviets commit some troops to hold the escape path open). [image]local://upfiles/56634/2BA7619DB1694B1A91FD68C5F325838E.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:35:49 AM)
In Army Group South’s sector, Soviet defenses around Kiev and along the river to the south appeared strong. Southern Front built a solid line along the Ingul. To the north of Kiev, and between Cherkassy and Kirovograd, there did not appear to be any defense whatsoever. Axis forces in this region are very thin as well. Some of 17th Army was available in the north Ukraine, and some elements of 9th Army were coming up in the center, south of Kiev. In the far south, 11th Army was far from the front. [image]local://upfiles/56634/99322F9A09EF4AE0931DAA5A71A0390C.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:36:49 AM)
Most of XXXXVI Panzer Corps, on loan from 2nd Panzer Group, was transferred to the control of 1st Panzer Group, filling up that Army HQ. The Leibstandarte Adolf Hitler division then swept through the Cherkassy-Kirovograd gap and drove all the way to the Gulf of Odessa, isolating almost all of Soviet Southern Front. Without the forces necessary to hold the pocket securely, though, the Axis southern commander settled for disrupting Soviet supply and chasing off a few HQ’s and airbases. Meanwhile 9th and 11th Armies moved up to the front while elements of 1st Panzer Group and 17th Army dove into the swamps to the north. Closing in on Odessa, 11th Army’s recon suggests that the Soviets have not left a powerful garrison in the city. Perhaps they’ve learned their lesson from the fate of the “hero city” of the north, Riga. In any case, it is now clear that the Soviets are withdrawing units from the south to reinforce the center and so they probably didn’t have anything to spare to fight for Odessa. [image]local://upfiles/56634/5C9FA26DF71A47EB83B232EC5B4E5FE8.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:37:29 AM)
Losses this turn were 162,449 Soviet to 18,290 German (302:63 in the air). Numbers deployed are 3,443,982 Soviet to 3,339,026 German (8,982:3,618 in the air). I would say the Soviets are doing well for this point in the conflict. Next turn’s fighting in the center will be critical.

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 5:30:44 AM)
AGC commander Herr General SparkleyTits reports: Turn 4 was mostly prepping for Littlebrother's reactions with 3 HQBU's of 11 divisions If he stayed still then I would probably do 1/all of the arrows if I see nothing better to try and crack the egg by securing nice bridgeheads, save as much fuel as possible to enhance my breakthrough potential on turn 6 by creating better opportunities than smashing against Zhukovs wall If he runs then I will just see what he leaves me with and go from there Apart from that I diverted a darn good corp of infantry to try and ensure as quick an ending of Soviet defence as possible in the swamps Not super happy about that but it was the only corp in the area and Huggles haul will be pure gold if we close it so will definitely be worth it if so I am also moving my forming 2nd army to the incoming offensive area [image]local://upfiles/56634/A0D2DB8FD4D6419BB781B524E5985D9D.jpg[/image]

Fetterkrolle -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 3:45:49 PM)
Riga was very unfortunate, I was hoping to hold it for this turn again and then pull out. But it still slowed down almost an entire German army for 2 turns, so I think it was worth it.

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:43:20 PM)
Yes, I was amazed that they didn't push up at least and find out what was there on turn 3.

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/9/2019 4:47:21 PM)
But I think another lesson is that you don't want to lose too many divisions. I had a habit as the Soviets of leaving a couple divisions in every city as I withdrew to stall the Axis advance. But recent versions of the game nerf Soviet manpower recruitment such that you really can't afford to give up too many of your starting units if you can avoid it. If you take historical losses in 1941, you will have dozens of nearly-empty divisions sitting around behind your lines in spring 1942. I am in a game right now against blubel in which I took just about the historical loss in terms of troops and territory (he did take Leningrad, but didn't get Stalino, and casualties were about right on). My army is crippled. I see now how the Soviets end up with the weak forces you find at the beginning of the 1942 campaign.

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Axis turn 4 (4/10/2019 2:51:43 PM)
About the Riga attack: when you attack across a major river, a portion of your elements are automatically disrupted. Since most of the German units attacked across the river, that explains the large number of disruptions.

thedoctorking -> TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 4 (4/16/2019 4:45:42 AM)
TTG Neutral AAR Soviet turn 4 Turn 4 saw the Soviets facing an anticipated major German offensive in the center. The northern front, on the other hand, was almost entirely quiescent other than the assault on Riga, detailed last turn. German 16th Army and half of Hoth’s 4th Panzer Group turned due east and supported the flanks of Army Group Center, while Manstein’s LVI Corps spread out in a very thin screen across northern Latvia. [image]local://upfiles/56634/75B2CE2363C949AB97FE286BC9E18760.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 4 (4/16/2019 4:46:27 AM)
The Soviet response to this situation was to work to strengthen their lines in front of 16th Army. They brought in Reserve Front to hold the line from Velikie Luki south and established a 3-deep defensive position. The front-line defenders are reasonably strong – no hex has a defensive CV less than 16 – but the rear lines don’t look too tough. There’s probably enough to slow down 16th Army and XXXI Panzer Corps and prevent a long breakthrough, but with careful management, the Germans could break this line. When combined with AGC’s anticipated breakthrough from the south, this could mean a major pocket next turn. Of note: Reserve Front’s Air Command consists of one air base, located far behind the lines. Those Reserve Front units will probably not get much defensive ground support if the Germans attack them next turn. It probably would have been better to assign an air base or two from NW or Northern fronts and then send one Reserve air base up close behind the line as a staging base. The three divisions that were forced to retreat from Riga last turn took up defensive positions in a swamp (good defensive terrain) on the coast, benefitting from beachhead supply but still likely to be overrun and destroyed by the mass of German infantry facing them. That said, they will delay at least a corps of 18th Army for another turn. In the Pskov sector, the Soviets worked on organizing their forces, but did not achieve full coherence of Fronts this turn. This is an artifact of the incoherent organization of the starting Soviet forces, with Northwest Front right up on the Baltic coast and Northern Front organizing behind their left flank in the Pskov/Novgorod/Leningrad region. The two fronts have to move through each other to achieve the standard deployment with NW Front in front of Velikie Luki up to Lake Ilmen and Northern defending the Leningrad region. Front coherence is important for a variety of reasons as explained last turn; the Soviet player is obviously aware of this and working hard on the problem. [image]local://upfiles/56634/4E3EAF9A9E644EEABD142613940A506D.jpg[/image]

thedoctorking -> RE: TTG multi-player teaching game: Soviet turn 4 (4/16/2019 4:47:52 AM)
Army Group Center represents the principal threat to the Soviet position this turn. It should have been clear to Soviet leadership that at least one German panzer corps did an HQBU last turn in their sector. Large groups of German infantry, representing at least four corps, arrived in front of the land bridge. Some German armored units in the Mogliev sector were showing some fuel stockpiles (using the fuel soft factor on the counters) Farther to the south, the refugees from the first-turn Rovno armored concentration dove into the swamps last turn in an attempt to escape, pursued by a corps from 1st Panzer Group and some infantry from 17th Army. [image]local://upfiles/56634/186B6780777448D1810FB81CEDDF59A3.jpg[/image]

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