RE: T61 (Full Version)

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M60A3TTS -> RE: T61 (6/21/2020 1:15:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

I read Brians vents.....I think the issue comes from losing Moscow and how much of the rest of the soviet union he has lost. It seems his issues are all tied to his ability to re-supply due to massive rail loss.

Its why I mentioned historically the soviets would probably have just surrendered or economically collapsed if it had lost the territory it has this game.

Its why in general short of bad German play once the soviets lose historical in the south + Leningrad + Moscow in 1941 they should just give up....as the losses are to high long term for the soviets to really stay in the game vs good German play. The compounding losses from all that is massive....esp once you also realize you wont be able to hold the south in 1942 so will result in even more manpower and economic losses.

The way the game plays at current if you lose more than historical in 1941 the game is over as the soviets...Its to big a long term snowball loss effect for the long term game.

The only thing that might fix it is if more manpower, and the rail points re-locate when locations are captured.

It also seems maybe the new rail system needs some tweaking, but im not sure how much as losing Moscow and most of European Russia should cost the soviet economy a lot--thus be a negative for the Soviet player long term.


Keep fighting the good fight Chaos, I'm with you there in spirit. [sm=00000436.gif]



tyronec -> T64 (6/21/2020 9:35:33 AM)

AGN is getting quieter, just two failed Soviet attacks. Begin to shift troops to the center.

Center. Tried to make a pocket around Morum but was a dismal failure. Will have at least reduced their supplies and routed a few units.

Leaving the area around Penza fairly open, the Soviets are welcome to stick their necks out there.

AGB begin to arrive at Saratov. If they don't pull back there has to be prospects of a pocket here in a turn or so.

Soviets disbanded some units in the Caucasus and I killed a few more, there are going to be a lot of shells around soon. Next turn will just be down to a couple of Corps of allied mountain divisions.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/0B6630DBAA424AD7BAE2385A10AF0310.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T65 (6/23/2020 11:35:15 AM)

Manage a pocket in the center and a few more threats.
Soviets have retreated East of Saratov, leaving a Tank Corps behind.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/DAC68FB13626438D9C73226564CF7A93.jpg[/image]



Fetterkrolle -> RE: T65 (6/23/2020 6:25:00 PM)

I think you posted the same picture twice



tyronec -> RE: T65 (6/23/2020 6:56:27 PM)

quote:

I think you posted the same picture twice

Thanks, corrected.
Just looking at this again, my defensive line looks a bit thin around Vladimir. There were no Tank Corps showing on recon, just hope there were none hiding.



tyronec -> T66 (6/25/2020 6:25:15 PM)

Soviets are pulling back in the North so release 3 more Corps to the center.
Pocket below Murom held last turn and seal the city off this turn. No sign of Soviets trying to cut off my spearhead though am giving them ample opportunity.
Really want to clear the circled area before the mud so the FBDs can advance the rail line ready for a snow offensive.
Soviets pull back East of Saratov, just trying to force them to send more troops here.

Need 17 VPs for victory, so 3 or 4 Light Urban (from Yaroslav, Ivanovo, Gorky, Kubyshev and Chkalov) plus a few cities.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/7517A31976F14953AE6A2CFBC9620ED5.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T67 (6/28/2020 9:18:52 AM)

Center. Both pockets held and take Morum.
Get a bit of a breakthrough and a new pocket below Vladmir, now that Morum has fallen am switching the Panzers to this side of the bulge, hopefully the Soviets are short of good troops here to respond. Have a couple of stacks ZOC locked. Looking good to get the rail line cleared before the Mud.

Chkalov offensive. Just stretching the line and looking for an opening.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/909E1CF847C24174BC5E23FE8637CB7E.jpg[/image]



chaos45 -> RE: T67 (6/28/2020 11:53:38 AM)

Just smashing soviet manpower reserves even more each turn. I really don't see how the soviets come back from this. Brian should probably just seek peace terms.

I knew you were going to be able to cut off and destroy his forces to the east/south of Moscow as he waited way to long to start retreating and even then did a very slow retreat. Once you punched the flank and got over the river he should have cut and run immediately and tried to establish a real defense line further to the north. Prolly Ivanova would have been the next defensive line point. Now he is going to lose units or at the very least not be able to get there and dig in before you can continue attacking.



mrhuggles -> RE: T67 (6/28/2020 8:12:58 PM)

[&o] Beautiful



tyronec -> T68 (6/29/2020 4:17:48 PM)

All goes well in the center, clear the pocket and catch another 3 units. Prospects of a bigger pocket next turn, Soviets unable to bring in enough reinforcements to the Moscow area. They are also at risk around Vladimirif they don't pull back.
Rail line is cleared ready for the Mud.

In the East, PG4 gets across the river above Kubyshev, am expecting there are a some shell soviet units around here.
Also pushing towards Chkalov with the Allies who have nowhere else left to fight.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/4F8BFAC927F645C79E8D0860C37B5ADD.jpg[/image]



chaos45 -> RE: T68 (6/29/2020 9:00:48 PM)

Looks like you will bag about an entire additional soviet army of POWs by Moscow...don't see how he can stop you. Also his defense further to the east is super weak.....ya peace terms lol

Romanians are going to be conducting like a real offensive in the far east lol.



tyronec -> RE: T68 (6/30/2020 9:52:36 AM)

quote:

Looks like you will bag about an entire additional soviet army of POWs by Moscow...don't see how he can stop you. Also his defense further to the east is super weak.....ya peace terms lol

Romanians are going to be conducting like a real offensive in the far east lol.


Yes I think everything NE of Moscow is at risk, will see how he responds.
The mighty Romanian/Hungarian offensive begins ! Not much punch...
Brian is away for a week so I will have to wait.



chaos45 -> RE: T68 (6/30/2020 2:22:45 PM)

When your still facing 1CV soviet infantry divisions the Romanians should do just fine lol.



tyronec -> T69 (7/5/2020 12:36:41 PM)

Last turn of Clear before the Mud.

Finns finally manage a small pocket while the Soviets were retreating.

Center. Soviets fall back as expected. Seal off the main pocket OK. The stack to the North got herded Southwards out of the main front line.
I had all 3 Panzer Corps doing heavy attacks to the Soviet line just south of the river and then was able to take two hexes across the river, just hoping one of them will hold.

In the East closing in on Kubyshev and Chkalov.

Soviet OOB has been in steady decline all Summer, though the continue to get around 80k in replacements every turn despite losing more cities. I think if they were still around 5M it would be heavy going for Axis with more Guards and high fort levels.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/49A978103F834B9286CEC542ECA35AA0.jpg[/image]



timmyab -> RE: T69 (7/6/2020 12:18:47 PM)

I hereby award Brian my never say die order of merit (first class).



chaos45 -> RE: T69 (7/6/2020 1:29:01 PM)

you can see from initial odds his army is pretty weak...as well he is taking huge --% on combats due to mixed up commands. Which means his army is pretty disorganized.



M60A3TTS -> RE: T69 (7/7/2020 2:17:42 AM)

The German Army has announced that they are changing the official song of the Ostheer. It will no longer be "Vorwärts nach Osten!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRNEzzN-gTo



Bozo_the_Clown -> RE: T69 (7/11/2020 5:11:06 PM)

Too bad that the map is so small. With the WitE logistics system, I don't see any reason why the Germans shouldn't be able to reach Vladivostok. [:D]



tyronec -> T74 (7/12/2020 10:13:37 AM)

Snow arrives.

Soviets retreated a bit during the Mud and Axis took Chkalov this turn. 7 VPs to go and if assaults on Yaroslav and Kubyshev both won could potentially end next turn. Not sure how long it takes to capture a city with Corps in it a and 3 level Fort.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/D7C61C66C7B44E7C885DC3999D199CC1.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T75 (7/16/2020 7:37:50 PM)

Yarorslav falls to the first attack.
Soviets cut my rail line in the East which is annoying.
4 VPs left to take.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/5CA2AB36438B4DD5925DB5A7DC980E6C.jpg[/image]



super_falco -> RE: T75 (7/17/2020 12:46:33 PM)

Hi, how are you going in terms of Units ToE? I suppose german Inf Div will be at 70% at the most. What about Panzer Divs?



tyronec -> T76 (7/18/2020 11:02:33 AM)

quote:

Hi, how are you going in terms of Units ToE? I suppose german Inf Div will be at 70% at the most. What about Panzer Divs?

Panzers are average around 65%, thanks to my over use during the blizzard. Infantry average 80%, and I have 30k in the pool that keeps going up every turn. Everything has been on max TOE 100% for a while.

Have prospects for the required 4 VPs next turn if I get lucky attacking Gorky, or might be able to take 4 cities.
East of Saratov is a mess after the rail was cut but no serious damage.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/E69EED67F22247A7BCA6313ACE047ABA.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T77 (7/20/2020 1:41:44 PM)

Two attacks on Gorky do almost nothing.
However I take Arzamas, Saransk and Penza for 3 VPs.
In the Caucasus the Soviets still have one city, and the attack on Sukhumi fails, so am 1 VP short.

East of Saratov is a mess, have lost 2 Romanian divisions.

Would hope to take Gorky or Sukhumi next turn, or two turns at the most.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/57E51778443D4B0CAD5CD58F1813392D.jpg[/image]



STEF78 -> RE: T69 (7/20/2020 2:50:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bozo_the_Clown

Too bad that the map is so small. With the WitE logistics system, I don't see any reason why the Germans shouldn't be able to reach Vladivostok. [:D]

Always pessimistic Bozo! Vladivostok end 1943 then Los Angeles mid 1944 [:)]



joelmar -> RE: T69 (7/20/2020 3:32:03 PM)

Almost there! I knew it could be done!



chaos45 -> RE: T69 (7/20/2020 9:03:03 PM)

Ehh 2 romanian divisions lost at the end of 1942, acceptable losses....anyway the game spares the romanians 100k+ losses trying to take Odessa in 1941 so should have plenty of replacements built up. could prolly just have them replace actual trained garrison units....that way they garrison and train back up and you can rail the trained garrison troops forward so no big total loss of CV



tyronec -> End. (7/22/2020 7:36:41 AM)

T78.
To my surprise when I took Sukhumi and the game ended, was expecting it to need an an End of turn to complete - so never got to find out how the attack on Gorky would go. This is by far the longest WITE game I have ever played and and my only PBEM one played to completion (think I had just one other game that finished without a resignation) - so credit to Brian for playing it through to the end. And credit to joelmar for predicting the result.

I think this game was won during the snow turns of '41 when I got a big pocket, it was uphill for the Soviets from then on. There have been a few comments on the AAR about mistakes Brian has made, IMO he has judged things very well 99% of the time and turn after turn I was finding his rear line defences set up just well enough to stop pockets being closed. Could well be that my over use of Panzers during the first blizzard was the worst mistake of the whole game.

Looking at game balance, with two skillful players would expect Axis to be able to take Lenningrad, Moscow and down to Rostov in '41. They would then be well set up for a strong offensive in '42 and a likely win in 42/43. So a bias in favor of Axis, though if the Soviet player were more skillful they should have a chance.
To counter this the air war is seriously broken and heavily loaded in favor of the Soviets.



[image]local://upfiles/52296/CA8F6246DFB841CD84DDAC32DA78A59F.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: End. (7/22/2020 9:58:24 AM)

Many thanks tyronec and briang - brilliant to see a whole game played to conclusion!



chaos45 -> RE: End. (7/22/2020 11:06:04 AM)

Well done, and I think your comments are spot on.

Congrats on your well played victory.



Kilo59 -> RE: End. (7/22/2020 11:35:49 AM)

Congratulations on your victory. It's been great to be able to follow along with the play through, thank you.



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