T54 (Full Version)

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tyronec -> T54 (5/31/2020 9:36:15 AM)

Start of turn.

Soviets have cut off lead units of PG2, definitely pushed forwards too far. Will have to pull back my left pincer and cut through with PG1 & PG3. The 4 Guard Cav around Saratov have completely disappeared.

Heavy losses overall during the Soviet turn, 17k Axis for 13k Soviets. They seem to be able to get parity even when attacking at moderate odds. Not sure how I can stabalise things North of Moscow as they are tying down a lot of troops there. That is my main concern, it is looking difficult to make pockets and the attrition war has begun in earnest. Though expect I can still take a lot of terrain in '42.


[image]local://upfiles/52296/FECFAB2AD0AC4BE69652DE5B91459723.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> RE: T54 (5/31/2020 3:28:14 PM)

End of turn.

Some counter attacks in the North but overall have lost a few hexes.

Saratov area. Manage to pocket 22 units though am not at all confident of it holding. Soviets have a lot of avenues of attack against 6th Army and PG2, and still only spotted two of their Guard Cav Corps.

Beat off the attack to Stalingrad from the East, think am strong enough to hold out here.

Caucasus. Soviets surprise me by abandoning the Kuma and pulling back to the next river.
I do a small attack towards Krasnodar, need to keep some good troops here for now and might as well test the defences. Am set up to cut the Caspian sea rail line next turn if they don't protect it, that would reduce supplies to the Soviets threatening Stalingrad.

Heavy losses for both sides, I get 3:1 during my turn without any surrenders as against worse than even during the Soviet turn. Seems attacking works.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/6A16B1B92C404182A40FF36DE8A401E2.jpg[/image]



redrum68 -> RE: T54 (5/31/2020 4:05:14 PM)

Nice pocket. Are those losses (close to 2 to 1 overall) about average at this point in the game? Or is that mostly just because of all the soviet attacks this turn?



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T54 (5/31/2020 9:56:28 PM)

You are doing fine. Just remember the Soviets are coming off mud turns and their troops are pretty rested. They will get pretty decent results attacking your tired troops that have been on constant movement. It will feel bad at the moment but when things get rolling the Germans have the upper hand still in 42. I also love it when I play an aggressive Soviet players catching them with their pants down on many occasions. I would recommend smaller quicker pockets though up north.

In the Caucasus it is still looking pretty good. The more he puts down here the better for you up north. Looking forward to seeing what you will be doing here.

Good luck to you.



tyronec -> RE: T54 (6/1/2020 10:17:51 AM)

quote:

Nice pocket. Are those losses (close to 2 to 1 overall) about average at this point in the game? Or is that mostly just because of all the soviet attacks this turn?

We have only had two turns of CLEAR so far in '42, both times Soviets did over 10k damage at around 1:1.
This is a new period of the game for me so I don't know what is normal.



chaos45 -> RE: T54 (6/1/2020 4:01:26 PM)

Keep in mind German replacement rates goes up in 1942, as well you are now getting Hiwis from soviet manpower that has repaired, and your getting more and more returned disabled to your ranks.

You can afford much higher losses in 1942 as the Germans and stay in the game, I don't remember the exact amount plus they have messed with the formulas here and there...but you should replace something like 25k+ axis manpower a week in 1942. Now you start to lose 30k+ your probably net losing alittle combat power each week, so you need to be killing/surrendering a lot of soviets.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T54 (6/1/2020 5:26:08 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: chaos45

Keep in mind German replacement rates goes up in 1942, as well you are now getting Hiwis from soviet manpower that has repaired, and your getting more and more returned disabled to your ranks.

You can afford much higher losses in 1942 as the Germans and stay in the game, I don't remember the exact amount plus they have messed with the formulas here and there...but you should replace something like 25k+ axis manpower a week in 1942. Now you start to lose 30k+ your probably net losing alittle combat power each week, so you need to be killing/surrendering a lot of soviets.


I know in 42 I don't care about the losses as the Germans as long as I keep the surrender wagon rolling. Once Tyronec gets that surrender wagon rolling the Soviets are going to be in trouble. Yes, the Soviets may break the first couple of pockets but with each passing pocket the pressure will be less if done correctly.



tyronec -> T55 (6/2/2020 6:06:34 PM)

AGN struggles on, just about holding the line.

Center. To my surprise the Soviets retreat rather than trying to break the pocket. On reflection it may have been the right decision as I might just have caught more units. We follow up as fast as possible, Panzers in the lead.
My main hope for taking Engles/Saratov is a right hook, the Soviets are well entrenched behind the river South of the cities. Would expect them to pull back this turn as looks high risk to hang on and that has been Brian's usual approach.

Have cut the Caspian rail line top and bottom so those red circled units are now a long way from supply, should clear the threat to the Stalingrad rail line.

Caucasus. Soviets abandon the Malka river and pull back to the Terek. Am trying to threaten their line over as long a front as possible to stretch the defenders. Cut the rail going North with a raid, should be able to close it properly in the next turn or so. I estimate about 60 Infantry, 1 Cav Corps and a Tank unit in the area. Of that about 30 units are West of Sukhumi and I think not going to do much where they are, being pinned down by one German Corps and a bunch of Allies.

Good turn for me, 101k Soviet losses and their OOB goes down for the first time since about T24.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/F0296A0267734F6A9AF1263359D34BBE.jpg[/image]



tyronec -> T56 (6/6/2020 2:18:22 PM)

Usual slugging match for AGN, lose a couple of hexes. Two Guard Cav. Corps and a few Rifle Corps have turned up so things are only going to get worse, but am glad to see them up here rather than in the Center.

Soviets held their line north of Engles. Manage two pockets which will likely be broken.
Manage to push the Saratov garrison (including a Guard Cav. corps) out and into a pocket.

Below Engles they pulled back, do a Rommel style right hand hook which should block supply for the Soviets East of the Volga. I think they are probably too thin on units to counter all these threats at the same time.
Soviets pulling back from East of Stalingrad as expected.

Caucasus. I did a lot of air supply last turn and am able to break through the Soviet line and take Makhachkala. Soviets had two 3 level forts below the city but take one out with no garrison. The other has 2 Guard Rifle Corps but that should disrupt their road block. As usual am a bit over extended and did a mis-click which didn't help (selecting stacks in different in WITE2 so playing both at the same time am always getting this wrong) but think I have enough to hold the bridgehead over the Terek. The Soviets around Grozny are going to be very short of supplies and the ones against the Caspian are temporarily isolated.

Think there should be good chances of pocketing something in the Caucasus by cutting the rail line West of Baku over the next several turns, have got threats against it in 3 different places.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/6546C401348347579F3DA25B7A0F898B.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 2:41:22 PM)

TBH I am shocked there is not a line of forts digging in south of Makhachkala instead of just some airfields. It is the easiest corridor to defend and perfectly predictable. There do seem to be a couple of rifle corps there. That avenue should be bottled up with high for levels by them and not left open as it is now. Yes the Soviets are stretched - but it is a very small manpower and unit commitment compared to the value of Baku to keep that avenue closed.



joelmar -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 2:48:21 PM)

Interesting. I absolutely agree with Tele. The Soviets had a doubtful defensive strategy in Caucasus... Novo/Krasnodar and the mountain passes were over defended, the Terek river under defended and now they were caught with their pants down at Makha. What's more we see that defending the mountain passes from the north side with standard infantry is not a very good idea, hard to retreat through the mountains and easy to bottle up at Grozny.

And at this point you can concentrate your transports and airbase resupply your spearheads very effectively. Thanks to that, it gives you a very good chance for HLYA's Baku gambit, and it might turn out as a major victory in Caucasus. This is a gift and you do a very good job to take advantage of it. Well done!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 2:51:41 PM)

The Soviets are out of position in the Caucasus with the BALLZY capture of Makhachkala! :-). I LOVE it. Yes, the Soviets will cut off those units this turn, maybe even try to route out the Moto unit but the damage has been done. The Soviets will have a small respite with cutting them off next turn but the fat lady is starting to sing :) Nicely done!

PS I bet there aren't many or any other units behind this.



joelmar -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 3:07:41 PM)

quote:


ORIGINAL: HLYA
I LOVE it.


[:D] Always enjoyable when your opponent does exactly what you wish and paints himself in the corner!



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 3:32:36 PM)

Another nice move by Tyronec. The area in orange is not defensible without major loss of life to the Soviets. If the Soviets stand firm they will be surrounded. This move is already making it possible for Tyronec in a few turns to cut off the SE map corner with the blocking action of Tyronecs units this turn. By getting to the east edge of the map around Chkalov will further exacerbate the crisis in the south. Hell, if you can take Chakalov on the way that is 22 manpower down real quick ;-)



[image]local://upfiles/53556/E27DA46733174AC7AE53A161DEA66E51.jpg[/image]



joelmar -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 3:57:50 PM)

"Create threats and be prepared to act on them if the occasion arises" is the name of the game...



chaos45 -> RE: T56 (6/6/2020 8:12:04 PM)

yep..Brian is very out of position....his defense of the south.....Im amazed he didn't have a strong garrison on the pass esp once you cut the rail line north....



tyronec -> T57 (6/7/2020 4:17:56 PM)

After Recon.

Center - Soviets broke both the pockets north of Saratov, took two attacks to push the SS units away. Am thinking I should reseal it and have a few Panzers on RESERVE which might hold next turn. Really I want to push NE along the Red arrow to make another threat but there are three rough hexes (in yellow) that make it difficult.
They have largely withdrawn from Engles which am glad to see.

Caucasus. Soviets finally start to pull back from Krasnodar.
I should have no trouble cutting through to Makhachkala again and isolating that group on the coast. Maybe also trapping some of those units retreating from Grozny in a few turns.

There are two Soviet units in the mountains showing Red for Isolated, wondering if they will surrender if routed ?

[image]local://upfiles/52296/6D9FF1F35E02448A8E9064DAA8AB5438.jpg[/image]



Telemecus -> RE: T57 (6/7/2020 4:23:12 PM)

Because the units isolated are that way because it is 100+MPs rather than in a pocket they were treated differently up to v1.11 at least.

Can you do a screenshot of the caspian coast area with fort levels displayed?




tyronec -> RE: T57 (6/7/2020 4:51:49 PM)

There were 2 Guards Corps there last turn. Now there is One Guards Corps, One Guards division, One Guards Mountain division and one ordinary Division.
I didn't think you could combine Mountain infantry into Corps, so there must be another Guard Corps somewhere.

I did recon all down the coast but no other info showing up.

Could probably get past Makhachkala this turn but don't think it would gain much, next turn maybe shift the Coastal stack and threaten the 3-Fort with surrounding, but unfortunately there will be a load more Soviet troops arriving from the West by then.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/FA7B483548CD41309B773874194730F6.jpg[/image]



joelmar -> RE: T57 (6/7/2020 7:11:02 PM)

I think the main thing is the threat. If you keep the pressure at Makha, it forces him to defend the corridor to Baku, so it makes matters easier at Novo and in Georgia. What I really like is that all those Soviet troops east of Grozny are in deep trouble, from next turn on they will be isolated. Some may manage to get out through the mountains, but they will be out of action for a while.

Panzers have done their job, infantry time now :-)




HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T57 (6/7/2020 9:26:56 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: joelmar

I think the main thing is the threat. If you keep the pressure at Makha, it forces him to defend the corridor to Baku, so it makes matters easier at Novo and in Georgia. What I really like is that all those Soviet troops east of Grozny are in deep trouble, from next turn on they will be isolated. Some may manage to get out through the mountains, but they will be out of action for a while.

Panzers have done their job, infantry time now :-)




100% don't agree with infantry now job. It is still the PZ/Motos Job all the way to Baku. The German player wants the clear terrain, woods and any other hex to force the Soviets to continue to walk through the mountains. The Germans have to push push push. The Germans should be leap frogging PZ/Moto units every other turn and Infantry push out of the way the Soviets in their path. The second this slows down to an infantry fight is when the Germans will lose.



joelmar -> RE: T57 (6/7/2020 10:00:05 PM)

Yes I can see your point, the Soviets didn't prepare any defense and there is a 1 hex wide path of clear hexes. There's also a lot of dense terrain hexes to clear, it will be costly and panzers will be much weakened by the time they get through, but after all, it doesn't really matter if they reach their objective.

I'm curious to see what Brian will have time to build up this turn. A few forts south of Makha would have helped the Soviet cause but there doesn't seem to be anything beyond the guards.

It will be interesting to watch.



tyronec -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 4:27:19 PM)

Center. Not too much action this turn. Just reseal the main pocket and have all my Panzers on Reserve so will see if the pocket will hold. Somehow am not optimistic.
Have got Engles pocketed so that will open up the rail line East next turn.

Caucasus. Got a couple of Panzers past Makha. Two more Infantry Corps on the way but my main problem is that the FBD is 30 hexes behind. There are two Guards Rifle Corps in the area and they can make another one, looks a heavy slog to keep tha advance going.

Mountain Corps threatening the rail line near Tiblisi and the Romanians near Sukhumi, will see if they can manage to do anything.

My OOB has slowly been going down since the Summer despite having most of the army on REFIT and 300k in the pool. Reading the 12.03 patch notes seems there is not much I can do about it, except maybe rotate units to the rear.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/005462E82CBA4149A63659EBD27F5216.jpg[/image]



joelmar -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 4:57:22 PM)

For your OOB, how are Arms points?

The situation at Makha is looking a little more difficult. Your mountain troops are doing a good job in the passes, the pressure is on.



tyronec -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 6:25:48 PM)

From memory; OOB around 3.6 for Germany. 300k in the pool. Over 200k armaments points.



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 7:42:10 PM)

This area would keep me up at night as a German player :( Hope that tank Corps doesn't have high movement points.

[image]local://upfiles/53556/3CA5CD5247F64DF0ABF0DDF2654AB19D.jpg[/image]



HardLuckYetAgain -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 7:47:20 PM)

When you took Makhachkala what did the Soviets have in the city defending? A Cav Corps and brigade? From the way I gather the 2 Guard Inf Corps were in the forest to the SW of Makhachkala? Correct?



tyronec -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 8:03:01 PM)

I think there was maybe a division in Makha then, and the two Guard Corps SW.
Now there is one 2 hexes W and one SW.
The Cav Corps was in the pocket by the sea, unfortunately it routed out when I was widening the gap through to Macha. I think that is the only Cav. in the area.



joelmar -> RE: T57 (6/8/2020 9:31:38 PM)

I guess it demonstrates how easily the Soviets can defend the Makha corridor... Going for Baku is not an easy task. Imagine if those units bottled up east of Grozny had been sitting in forts on the Terek river instead. Good thing is there are a few very good Soviet units down south that are not defending in center.



tyronec -> T58 (6/10/2020 6:00:26 PM)

AGN fairly stable at last, Soviets just took one hex. Try a small excursion with the Finns to pull a few Soviet units away.

Center. Soviets had broken my pocket again, it was a lucky attack but they probably have a few chances so odds on they were going to break it. I get a few lucky attacks in return. The heavy stack retreat across the front line and get hammered the second time.
As HLYA pointed out they are threatening a counter with two huddles of Tank Corps.

Engles pocket was also broken, I thought that would hold. Have to rout them out to release the FBD. Trying another advance up the East of the river, have done an HQB and will see what is possible next turn.

Caucasus. My Mountain Corps just fail to cut the rail line, Model let me down. Have it ZOC'd and pocket a mountain division. My guys are out of supplies, not sure if they will hold.
Clear the Caspian Sea pocket.
Looks hard going to make progress towards Baku but the Soviets have their problems too.

Soviets are taking 60k in Logistics losses a turn instead of the usual 40k, guess because of those units in Mountains being out of supply. Just difficult for me to pocket them properly as any attack and they may rout to safety. I have 4 turns to kill them before I need to clear the rail line.

[image]local://upfiles/52296/BDC1444A1BB14572B3A0494BE0727BC8.jpg[/image]



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