RE: BTS Play-Testing (Full Version)

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John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 9:17:52 PM)

As Michael alluded to earlier, the starting aircraft production needs serious work as well as R&D. This is a realm that need serious work.

When I get my next turn from Jorge, I'll Post some screenshots and then we can talk about it.



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 9:38:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Merchant Yards are very different. I am having a devil of a time on January 1944, with Sean, keeping any points at all. Have shut down nearly everything except Tanker construction. This experience makes me think that Merchie Yards might need some additional help. Not sure if it is worth it or not...I have more then enough ships in 1944 to move everything so the concern might be moot.

Thoughts???

I would not expand merchant yards. As you wrote, there are more than enough ships to do what they must. I would not even bother building the smallest 2-3 xAK classes coming down the pipeline.



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 9:39:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
As Michael alluded to earlier, the starting aircraft production needs serious work as well as R&D. This is a realm that need serious work.

When I get my next turn from Jorge, I'll Post some screenshots and then we can talk about it.

Turn sent.



btd64 -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 9:51:49 PM)

Buy the way, the Kitakami class CL needs a look at the Torp numbers. Or is 40 correct for the number of torps it can fire???....GP



btd64 -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 9:53:02 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

As Michael alluded to earlier, the starting aircraft production needs serious work as well as R&D. This is a realm that need serious work.

When I get my next turn from Jorge, I'll Post some screenshots and then we can talk about it.



I look forward to this conversation....GP



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 10:14:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
Buy the way, the Kitakami class CL needs a look at the Torp numbers. Or is 40 correct for the number of torps it can fire???....GP

20 Long Lances per broadside. Nasty critters if they can get into fiing position.



btd64 -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 10:33:06 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kitakami

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64
Buy the way, the Kitakami class CL needs a look at the Torp numbers. Or is 40 correct for the number of torps it can fire???....GP

20 Long Lances per broadside. Nasty critters if they can get into fiing position.



OK then. Hopefully I can experience this soon....GP



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 10:52:19 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

Buy the way, the Kitakami class CL needs a look at the Torp numbers. Or is 40 correct for the number of torps it can fire???....GP


Twenty per side. She, Oi, and Kiso have that starting configuration. I took these early CLs and made three Training Cruisers so we don't need the Katori-Class and then the other three are TT-CLs.

Running Jorge's turn and then we shift to aircraft production and R&D.





btd64 -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/2/2020 10:53:42 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


quote:

ORIGINAL: btd64

Buy the way, the Kitakami class CL needs a look at the Torp numbers. Or is 40 correct for the number of torps it can fire???....GP


Twenty per side. She, Oi, and Kiso have that starting configuration.



Check....GP



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:10:46 AM)

Here is the first screenshot of Japanese Aircraft construction:


[image]local://upfiles/18041/9DFD9E211FB34A9ABE9CE10EAC3BFCBA.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:14:23 AM)

Second of three:


[image]local://upfiles/18041/2FB09D09BEA14220B8E4D1516D23BCE9.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:16:28 AM)

Air Production last page:


[image]local://upfiles/18041/070DDD90F10D4AFFA06BB852CE615546.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:17:49 AM)

Pending on how people like to play, we could change two Zero, 1 Jake, and 2 Oscar over to something else in production. Any thoughts here?

Going to bring up R&D next...



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:19:43 AM)

R&D Page 1

[image]local://upfiles/18041/2E703CED9367436E81C0798FF8591860.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:21:29 AM)

R&D 2

[image]local://upfiles/18041/1D0CCC0EEA024201A65CFCA8F3CC709B.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:22:52 AM)

R&D 3

[image]local://upfiles/18041/905CC075D4EE42ADB917E949B9819F16.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:24:10 AM)

R&D 4

[image]local://upfiles/18041/0C9F3EC2F935457C9EAD76A3F6EDA228.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:25:43 AM)

R&D 5

[image]local://upfiles/18041/D15F87EE2B8E4F8FB53798F82C1C47E1.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:27:05 AM)

R&D 6

[image]local://upfiles/18041/2EE348C1D8CF42B38B89465B962A1B73.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:28:40 AM)

R&D 7

LAST one!

[image]local://upfiles/18041/D4970262C21F4E3F84E7BE9A4FA25060.jpg[/image]



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:39:31 AM)

OK. LOTS of stuff here and several of you have commented on how to move forward on the IJN side.

CV-Based Fighters
A6M2---A7M1 (11/43 using Nakajima Ha-45)---A7M1a (5/44 using Naka Ha-45)---A7M2 (11/44 ENGINE CHANGE to Mitsu Ha-43)---A7M3 (4/45 using Mitsu Ha-43) is the Fighter line.

Pete--RUFE--Rex

Ground-Based Fighters
A6M2 Sen Baku

A6M3

The George-Line (normal to stock game)

Advanced Naval Fighter???




John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:40:03 AM)

Done for a while. Anyone?



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:59:46 AM)

I think 1-2 Zero, 1 Oscar, 1-2 Jake, and 1 Topsy factories could be reassigned. Not sure about the 2 Zero as having 3 factories instead of two leads to a faster production buildup. I advise against reassigning more than that. Four factories of each fighter may be giving the player too much rope to hang himself with.

Air frame R&D is an art form that should be tailored to each player’s play style, I think. I would not touch much of it, if at all.

Just my 2 cents



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 1:59:03 AM)

Thanks Sir. Agree on the 'at start' modifications need.



ny59giants -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 12:34:06 PM)

My input for this will be based on my old thread on this issue from way back in 2016 when I was being a JFB.

https://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4138290

Just re-read the thread. Would like to convert some at start and R&D to 0 (5) factories for the following models:
IJN = J7W1 Shinden should have the two small Zero factories
IJA = Ki-83 should have two factories (1 Oscar and 1 Topsy). Keep each service doing work in their family only.

There are recommendations from various players whose opinions in this area I respect, but they differ outside of these two late war fighters.




btd64 -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 2:38:17 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Pending on how people like to play, we could change two Zero, 1 Jake, and 2 Oscar over to something else in production. Any thoughts here?

Going to bring up R&D next...



I have a thought. Where does a Japanese player start? Remember I'm new to the Japanese side of things....GP



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/3/2020 3:16:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Done for a while. Anyone?

I decided to look at another aspect of things... at Japanese naval pilot starting experience and skill levels. I have not finished, but these are some of the things I found when comparing data from stock scenario 1 and BtSL scenario 78:

1. Carrier fighter pilots:

-- CV Akagi Kansen changed from Exp 75 Air 75 to Exp 69 Air 68 for a change of -6 / -7 on average.
-- CV Amagi Kansen changed from Exp 75 Air 72 to Exp 67 Air 66 for a change of -8 / -6 on average.
-- CV Hiryu Kansen changed from Exp 75 Air 75 to Exp 71 Air 69 for a change of -4 / -6 on average.
-- CV Soryu Kansen changed from Exp 75 Air 74 to Exp 66 Air 65 for a change of -9 / -9 on average.
-- CV Shokaku Kansen changed from Exp 70 Air 69 to Exp 63 Air 64 for a change of -7 / -5 on average.
-- CV Zuikaku Kansen changed from Exp 70 Air 71 to Exp 63 Air 63 for a change of -7 / -8 on average.
-- CVL Ryujo Kansen changed from Exp 65 Air 64 to Exp 62 Air 61 for a change of -3 / -3 on average.
-- CVL Zuiho Kansen changed from Exp 65 Air 64 to Exp 61 Air 60 for a change of -4 / -4 on average.
-- CVE Hosho Kansen changed from Exp 50 Air 56 to Exp 59 Air 64 for a change of +9 / +8 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

The following are compared to the average CVL Kansen in stock:

-- CVL Karasu Kansen changed from Exp 65 Air 64 to Exp 62 Air 62 for a change of -3 / -2 on average.
-- CVL Ryukaku Kansen changed from Exp 65 Air 64 to Exp 64 Air 64 for a change of -1 / -0 on average.
-- CAV Kushiro Kansen changed from Exp 65 Air 64 to Exp 58 Air 56 for a change of -7 / -6 on average.
-- CAV Tokachi Kansen changed from Exp 65 Air 64 to Exp 60 Air 58 for a change of -5 / -6 on average.

The following are compared to the only CVE Kansen in stock:

-- CVE Ibuki Kansen changed from Exp 50 Air 56 to Exp 59 Air 59 for a change of +9 / +3 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- CVE Taiyo Kansen changed from Exp 50 Air 56 to Exp 59 Air 58 for a change of +9 / +2 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

2. Carrier dive bomber pilots:

-- CV Akagi Kanbaku changed from Exp 75 NavB 74 to Exp 65 NavB 64 for a change of -10 / -10 on average.
-- CV Amagi Kanbaku changed from Exp 75 NavB 73 to Exp 68 NavB 67 for a change of -7 / -6 on average.
-- CV Hiryu Kanbaku changed from Exp 75 NavB 74 to Exp 65 NavB 66 for a change of -7 / -8 on average.
-- CV Soryu Kanbaku changed from Exp 75 NavB 73 to Exp 67 NavB 66 for a change of -8 / -7 on average.
-- CV Shokaku Kanbaku changed from Exp 70 NavB 68 to Exp 62 NavB 60 for a change of -8 / -8 on average.
-- CV Zuikaku Kanbaku changed from Exp 70 NavB 69 to Exp 64 NavB 63 for a change of -6 / -6 on average.

3. Torpedo bomber pilots:

-- CV Akagi Kanko changed from Exp 75 NavB 73 NavT 73 to Exp 66 NavB 66 NavT 65 for a change of -9 / -7 / -8 on average.
-- CV Amagi Kanko changed from Exp 75 NavB 72 NavT 74 to Exp 71 NavB 69 NavT 70 for a change of -4 / -3 / -4 on average.
-- CV Hiryu Kanko changed from Exp 75 NavB 75 NavT 74 to Exp 70 NavB 68 NavT 69 for a change of -5 / -7 / -5 on average.
-- CV Soryu Kanko changed from Exp 75 NavB 72 NavT 73 to Exp 69 NavB 69 NavT 68 for a change of -6 / -3 / -5 on average.
-- CV Shokaku Kanko changed from Exp 70 NavB 69 NavT 69 to Exp 65 NavB 65 NavT 64 for a change of -5 / -4 / -4 on average.
-- CV Zuikaku Kanko changed from Exp 70 NavB 69 NavT 69 to Exp 63 NavB 63 NavT 62 for a change of -8 / -6 / -7 on average.
-- CVL Ryujo Kanko changed from Exp 65 NavB 63 NavT 64 to Exp 60 NavB 60 NavT 58 for a change of -5 / -3 / -6 on average.
-- CVL Zuiho Kanko changed from Exp 65 NavB 63 NavT 64 to Exp 60 NavB 57 NavT 59 for a change of -5 / -6 / -5 on average.
-- CVE Hosho Kanko changed from Exp 50 NavB 48 NavT 49 to Exp 57 NavB 57 NavT 55 for a change of +7 / +9 / +6 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

The following are compared to the average CVL Kanko in stock:

-- CVL Karasu Kanko changed from Exp 65 NavB 63 NavT 64 to Exp 66 NavB 62 NavT 64 for a change of +1 / -1 / -0 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- CVL Ryukaku Kanko changed from Exp 65 NavB 63 NavT 64 to Exp 63 NavB 62 NavT 61 for a change of -2 / -1 / -3 on average.
-- CAV Kushiro Kanko changed from Exp 65 NavB 63 NavT 64 to Exp 61 NavB 61 NavT 60 for a change of -4 / -2 / -4 on average.
-- CAV Tokachi Kanko changed from Exp 65 NavB 63 NavT 64 to Exp 58 NavB 58 NavT 57 for a change of -7 / -5 / -7 on average.

The following are compared to the only CVE Kanko in stock:

-- CVE Ibuki Kanko changed from Exp 50 NavB 48 NavT 49 to Exp 57 NavB 57 NavT 54 for a change of +7 / +9 / +5 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- CVE Taiyo Kanko changed from Exp 50 NavB 48 NavT 49 to Exp 57 NavB 56 NavT 55 for a change of +7 / +8 / +6 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

I think the skill difference between BtSL and Stock should be between -5 and -10. It is mostly CVE and CVL air groups that do not fall in this range. Perhaps this should be twinked?

Just my 2 cents



John 3rd -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/4/2020 12:55:30 AM)

GREAT work! You are correct in your assumption. I--literally--rolled a die for the percent decrease in the air groups. Well done.

Will lower the ones you mention as well.

Additionally have decided to have more older airframes in frontline units. You'll see some more Claude, Jean, and Mabel to reflect the absolute push to have Zero, Val, Kate in the frontline carrier force.

Am also planning to reduce the number of starting airframes with the 9th Air Fleet in Kyushu. Want to cut them by 50% or so. That unit begins the war at cadre strength, fills out, trains, and has to buy its aircraft. I want to see that massive unit deploy 4-6 months after the war begins. Needs to take time...



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/4/2020 1:08:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd
Additionally have decided to have more older airframes in frontline units. You'll see some more Claude, Jean, and Mabel to reflect the absolute push to have Zero, Val, Kate in the frontline carrier force.

Am also planning to reduce the number of starting airframes with the 9th Air Fleet in Kyushu. Want to cut them by 50% or so. That unit begins the war at cadre strength, fills out, trains, and has to buy its aircraft. I want to see that massive unit deploy 4-6 months after the war begins. Needs to take time...

I think both ideas have merit. It brings the need to expando modern airframe production into the forefront, with all the headaches that come along with along with it.

This scenario is a balancing act, and as such it requires much work... but it is turning out quite nice :)



Kitakami -> RE: BTS Play-Testing (5/4/2020 3:30:11 PM)

IJN Land-based Air Units (part 1)

Fighters:

-- 3rd Ku S-1 changed from Exp 72 Air 75 to Exp 62 Air 72 for a change of -10 / -3 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Chitose Ku S-1 changed from Exp 66 Air 67 to Exp 61 Air 65 for a change of -4 / -2 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Kawai Det changed from Exp 69 Air 69 to Exp 64 Air 63 for a change of -5 / -6 on average.
-- Okamoto Det changed from Exp 51 Air 50 to Exp 62 Air 62 for a change of +11 / +12 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Ominato Ku S-1 changed from Exp 51 Air 50 to Exp 49 Air 48 for a change of -2 / -2 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Sasebo Ku S-1 changed from Exp 51 Air 50 to Exp 58 Air 58 for a change of +7 / +8 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Tainan Ku S-1 changed from Exp 70 Air 71 to Exp 72 Air 71 for a change of +2 / -0 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Yamada Det S-1 changed from Exp 51 Air 50 to Exp 68 Air 68 for a change of +17 / +18 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Yamada Det S-2 changed from Exp 51 Air 50 to Exp 66 Air 67 for a change of +15 / +17 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Yokosuka Ku S-1 changed from Exp 51 Air 50 to Exp 63 Air 63 for a change of +12 / +13 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

-- Kagoshima-2 Ku S-1 starts with Exp 58 Air 59. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Kanoya Ku S-1 starts with Exp 80 Air 79. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT. IS IS AN ADDITIONAL UNIT UNDER 22ND AIR FLOTILLA
-- Kanoya-2 Ku S-1 starts with Exp 57 Air 58. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Nagasaki-3 Ku S-1 starts with Exp 58 Air 57. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Sapporo Ku S-2 starts with Exp 57 Air 57. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

Dive Bombers:

-- Bako NGD Det T-1 changed from Exp 51 NavB 50 to Exp 62 NavB 62 for a change of +11 / +12 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Saeki Ku T-1 changed from Exp 53 NavB 53 to Exp 65 NavB 65 for a change of +12 / +12 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Yokosuka Ku K-3 changed from Exp 74 NavB 74 to Exp 62 NavB 62 for a change of -12 / -12 on average. PERHAPS THIS IS A BIT TOO MUCH, PERHAPS NOT. IT DEPENDS IF THE ORIGINAL PILOTS WERE SENT TO OTHER UNITS OR NOT.

-- Saeki Ku T-1 starts with Exp 65 NavB 65. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

Medium Bombers:

-- 1st Ku K-1 changed from Exp 69 NavB 69 NavT 68 to Exp 61 NavB 60 NavT 60 for a change of -8 / -9 / -8 on average.
-- Bihoro Ku K-1 changed from Exp 68 NavB 68 NavT 68 to Exp 64 NavB 62 NavT 63 for a change of -4 / -6 / -5 on average.
-- Chitose Ku K-1 changed from Exp 64 NavB 64 NavT 62 to Exp 64 NavB 64 NavT 63 for a change of -0 / -0 / +1 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Genzan Ku K-1 changed from Exp 69 NavB 68 NavT 68 to Exp 63 NavB 63 NavT 61 for a change of -6 / -5 / -7 on average.
-- Kanoya Ku K-1 changed from Exp 70 NavB 69 NavT 67 to Exp 65 NavB 65 NavT 64 for a change of -5 / -4 / -3 on average.
-- Takao Ku K-1 changed from Exp 70 NavB 69 NavT 69 to Exp 67 NavB 68 NavT 66 for a change of -3 / -1 / -3 on average.
-- Yokosuka Ku K-1 changed from Exp 73 NavB 74 NavT 74 to Exp 62 NavB 62 NavT 62 for a change of -11 / -12 / -12 on average. PERHAPS THIS IS A BIT TOO MUCH, PERHAPS NOT. IT DEPENDS IF THE ORIGINAL PILOTS WERE SENT TO OTHER UNITS OR NOT.

-- Kagoshima-1 Ku K-1 starts with Exp 60 NavB 59 NavT 60. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Kanoya Ku K-2 starts with Exp 65 NavB 64 NavT 64. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Kanoya-1 Ku K-1 starts with Exp 54 NavB 54 NavT 52.
-- Takao Ku K-2 starts with Exp 68 NavB 68 NavT 67. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT. IS IS AN ADDITIONAL UNIT UNDER 23RD AIR FLOTILLA.

Patrol Planes:

-- Sasebo Ku T-2 changed from Exp 54 NavS 55 to Exp 54 NavB 53 for a change of -0 / -2 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Toko Ku T-1 changed from Exp 70 NavS 70 to Exp 64 NavB 64 for a change of -6 / -6 on average.
-- Yokohama Ku T-1 changed from Exp 68 NavS 68 to Exp 58 NavB 58 for a change of -10 / -10 on average.
-- Yokohama Ku T-2 changed from Exp 70 NavS 70 to Exp 59 NavB 59 for a change of -9 / -9 on average.
-- Yokosuka Ku T-1 changed from Exp 71 NavS 70 to Exp 62 NavB 64 for a change of -9 / -6 on average.

-- Kagoshima-3 Ku T-2 starts with Exp 57 NavS 57. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Kanoya-3 Ku T-2 starts with Exp 55 NavS 55. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

Torpedo Bombers:

-- CTF Det T-1 changed from Exp 53 NavB 54 NavT 53 to Exp 63 NavB 62 NavT 62 for a change of +10 / +8 / +9 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Kainan NGD Det T-1 changed from Exp 54 NavB 52 NavT 52 to Exp 64 NavB 63 NavT 63 for a change of +10 / +11 / +11 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Ominato Ku T-1 changed from Exp 54 NavB 54 NavT 53 to Exp 50 NavB 49 NavT 49 for a change of -4 / -5 / -5 on average.
-- Tateyama Ku T-1 changed from Exp 54 NavB 53 NavT 54 to Exp 57 NavB 57 NavT 56 for a change of +3 / +4 / +3 on average. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Yokosuka Ku T-1 changed from Exp 73 NavB 73 NavT 74 to Exp 59 NavB 60 NavT 59 for a change of -14 / -13 / -15 on average. PERHAPS THIS IS A BIT TOO MUCH, PERHAPS NOT. IT DEPENDS IF THE ORIGINAL PILOTS WERE SENT TO OTHER UNITS OR NOT.

-- Nagasaki-1 Ku T-1 starts with Exp 57 NavB 59 NavT 57. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.
-- Sapporo Ku T-2 starts with Exp 55 NavB 56 NavT 56. THIS SHOULD BE LOOKED AT.

As with carrier-based air units, I suggest a skill differential of -5 to -10.

Just my 2 cents.



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