RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 9:48:45 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

I guess Alfred is pointing out that it wasn't practical for them to improve on it. If that makes more sense?

Exactly.

At one point the devs did a relatively small change to the strategic movement code to fix an actual bug. In doing so they completely broke the AI.

The AE team project leader was fond of classical WITP's Mr Fragg's saying that "ahistorical play leads to ahistorical outcomes". There was very little willingness to change fundamental game design concepts which worked just to accommodate ahistorical play. Squash a bug which came to light from ahistorical play, yes that would be addressed by the AE dev team. However if the ahistorical play resulted in a less than ideal outcome albeit one still consistent with the game design and when simple player workarounds exist which take the sting out of the ahistorical play, that did not rate high on the priority list for code revisions.

I'm not saying that the full extent of the outcomes from how they implemented the game design concept would be viewed by the devs as being ideal/perfect outcomes. Nor the ramifications on gameplay of some of these outcomes was foremost in their thoughts. But to say this is not consistent with the game design is simply incorrect. Abstractions always include the good with the ugly.

Alfred

This bolded part is particularly important to the way that AE is played now.

Almost all of what we do as players is ahistorical in it's extremes. We use what is available and anything that will work to come up with ways to outsmart our opponents. It's inevitable that this would come about since the game itself is abstracted from history, and in it's own way inherently impossible to play with historical parameters consistently. Sure, you can try to hold yourself back somewhat, but the game itself will make very non-historical decisions in how units move, interact, fight and retreat. So the trend has been to simply go with the game as designed.

That worked well when michaelm (

) was here to assist, to look at things and bring a coding perspective to how the function of the game was working with these newly discovered parameters from hundreds of thousands of example turns.

You seem to be saying that developers saw this problem and decided it wasn't worth fixing. Maybe that is true, but listening to Lowpe's experience of it and seeing my own limited example, I can only imagine they found it actually impossible to fix this. Putting a reasonable number of units on trains and sending them a few hundred miles to reinforce a defensive stand seems entirely historical, plausible, and within game parameters as designed. Cutting rail to thwart this is also part of game design and historically plausible. Hence the need to redo a turn when both of these design features lead to a situation where rules of the game as designed do not function as designed.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 2971

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 9:57:57 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Damn. Went on a nice country walk today. Sunny. Gorgeous. Two village pubs and a lot of castles, rivers and new lambs bouncing through the fields.

I got home thinking there would be a turn waiting from Dan, but my email, hastily sent this morning, hadn't gone through completely.

Sent a profuse apology and sent just now.

The new turn without the APD landing on the river/rail hex went smoothly with only a few perceptible changes to other areas of the game. Nothing I think is major anyway.

So I've reset all moving units in strat mode, and lets hope Lopwe is not all-seeing in his prediction of more doom for my railed units.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2972

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 10:05:57 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

One issue I've though about around this is the possibility it could be intentionally exploited with paradrops and minor amphibious landings to thwart a retreating or invading force, even when not controlling rail hexes. Imagine a force that landed at an enemy base at a rail terminus. Take for instance Lang Son.

What if, knowing I was retreating the Bumra Army, CR decided to drop a Chindit unit on LangSon from Burma. Entirely possible, and that could send all units leaving Saigon into a spiral of spooky behaviour at a distance. h could do the same at Udon Thani. Suddenly I'd have 10-15 divisions and who knows how many other units stranded outside of a base hex, not moving in strat mode, and a 10k AV Allied army in hot pursuit.

In the early game it could go against the Allies as they retreat on Malaya, in Burma, or in China. Even India if that is in play, although many parts of India have many multiple rail lines to the same place.

This really could be a serious problem in many situations.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2973

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 10:14:34 PM

brian800000

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/15/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

One issue I've though about around this is the possibility it could be intentionally exploited with paradrops and minor amphibious landings to thwart a retreating or invading force, even when not controlling rail hexes. Imagine a force that landed at an enemy base at a rail terminus. Take for instance Lang Son.

What if, knowing I was retreating the Bumra Army, CR decided to drop a Chindit unit on LangSon from Burma. Entirely possible, and that could send all units leaving Saigon into a spiral of spooky behaviour at a distance. h could do the same at Udon Thani. Suddenly I'd have 10-15 divisions and who knows how many other units stranded outside of a base hex, not moving in strat mode, and a 10k AV Allied army in hot pursuit.

In the early game it could go against the Allies as they retreat on Malaya, in Burma, or in China. Even India if that is in play, although many parts of India have many multiple rail lines to the same place.

This really could be a serious problem in many situations.

In the game's defense, that may not be unfair...it wouldn't take a division or control of a hex to really mess up rail movement. See the Bridge on the River Kwai for a hypothetical example.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2974

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 10:20:20 PM

JohnDillworth

Posts: 3100
Joined: 3/19/2009
Status: offline

quote:

Putting a reasonable number of units on trains and sending them a few hundred miles to reinforce a defensive stand seems entirely historical

Perhaps...but I expect that Japans rail capacity was stretched to the max and they didn't have much of if sitting around in the yards just waiting to transport military units and all their equipment on a few hours notice. I guess the switched to strategic mode time abstracts gathering all the rail transport to the correct places. Still, there had to be some guerilla activity and in 1945 Japan probably didn't have many trains on speed dial. Military units take up a lot of rail cars. The web has a suprising about of data about this but this count is interesting:

"In the book �Blitzkrieg�, author Len Deighton notes that a full-strength panzer division transported by railway needed no less than 80 trains, each train with up to 55 wagons.

Now Japan traveled a bit lighter than Germany but even if you half those numbers one would need 2,200 rail carriages per Divisision

_____________________________

Today I come bearing an olive branch in one hand, and the freedom fighter's gun in the other. Do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. I repeat, do not let the olive branch fall from my hand. - Yasser Arafat Speech to UN General Assembly

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2975

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 10:23:17 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

One issue I've though about around this is the possibility it could be intentionally exploited with paradrops and minor amphibious landings to thwart a retreating or invading force, even when not controlling rail hexes. Imagine a force that landed at an enemy base at a rail terminus. Take for instance Lang Son.

What if, knowing I was retreating the Bumra Army, CR decided to drop a Chindit unit on LangSon from Burma. Entirely possible, and that could send all units leaving Saigon into a spiral of spooky behaviour at a distance. h could do the same at Udon Thani. Suddenly I'd have 10-15 divisions and who knows how many other units stranded outside of a base hex, not moving in strat mode, and a 10k AV Allied army in hot pursuit.

In the early game it could go against the Allies as they retreat on Malaya, in Burma, or in China. Even India if that is in play, although many parts of India have many multiple rail lines to the same place.

This really could be a serious problem in many situations.

In the game's defense, that may not be unfair...it wouldn't take a division or control of a hex to really mess up rail movement. See the Bridge on the River Kwai for a hypothetical example.

I think you're not getting the area being considered here. We're not saying the units should not be disrupted by having their movement stopped or not continuing to their destination. It's entirely historical to interdict railways and the game doesn't model what FB and ground attack F could do in late war to static rails or rolling stock.

I'm hypothesising about dropping a unit to intentionally bring this bug into play. Putting a unit at the end of a rail line on the Chinese border to send a number of units in Saigon (many hundreds of miles away) off on a 40 mile journey from which they're dumped at the side of the tracks and abandoned in a completely different movement mode.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to brian800000)

Post #: 2976

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/21/2019 10:32:11 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Putting a reasonable number of units on trains and sending them a few hundred miles to reinforce a defensive stand seems entirely historical

Perhaps...but I expect that Japans rail capacity was stretched to the max and they didn't have much of if sitting around in the yards just waiting to transport military units and all their equipment on a few hours notice. I guess the switched to strategic mode time abstracts gathering all the rail transport to the correct places. Still, there had to be some guerilla activity and in 1945 Japan probably didn't have many trains on speed dial. Military units take up a lot of rail cars. The web has a suprising about of data about this but this count is interesting:

"In the book �Blitzkrieg�, author Len Deighton notes that a full-strength panzer division transported by railway needed no less than 80 trains, each train with up to 55 wagons.

Now Japan traveled a bit lighter than Germany but even if you half those numbers one would need 2,200 rail carriages per Divisision

Ok. Now you're bringing game design into question, not the plausibility of moving these units in a manner that the design allows for in the rules.

Japan in this game is not in the state Japan was in during the war, nor should it be considered by those conditions. China has been completely under it's Co-Prosperity sphere since mid-42. All bases are garrisoned adequately to subvert ALL guerrilla activity as conditions of the game allow.

Conjectures about Japan's wartime capacity to move units by rail isn't relevant to the discussion except that they did indeed have some capacity to do this and that is modelled in game equally for the Allies and for Japan. The Allies can also rail any number of units across the same territory without having to ship in or manufacture rail cars or engines because those are abstracted by the game.

These things should be especially irrelevant in a game without stacking limits where he Allied stack in Thailand is now about 500k troops, all in one hex about to crash over a river into Bangkok!!

Do you think the bridge will hold up if 10,000+ tanks, trucks and arty pieces try to cross it within 24 hours? Might there be a few traffic jams?

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/21/2019 11:11:41 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 2977

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/22/2019 1:39:17 PM

Lowpe

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Joined: 2/25/2013
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The game plays as the game plays. Trying to come up with justifications to explain away the quirks, is all well and good but an exercise in role playing and creativity rather than playing the war game.

However, it is fascinating to look at pictures of the Manchuko Railways Headquarters during the war and their substantial amount of sophistication. Ditto for Chinese railways. Also, you get insights into the different gauges present, the lines, how Japan even stripped lines for steel, the effects of bombing...railway service was established 2-3 days after the abomb for example.

Kawasaki built close to 800 of these rolling stock locomotives for Manchuko and they also had over 100 passenger locomotives of very modern design, and from the picture they look pretty nice. A couple years back I posted a picture from Nashville, where an equivalent American locomotive is on display from WW2. I encourage everyone to do some basic searches and reading here, it is really quite fascinating.

It would be super nice to see a more sophisticated railway system in the game. Interdiction for example, but the game will most likely not be beta patched ever again, let alone adding more content.

I think in my WITPAE experience I have asked once for a turn do-over and it was promptly and graciously granted. I have been offered turn do-overs on perhaps 3-5 more occasions and declined them rather living with the results. I have been asked for do-overs probably 3-4 times by my opponents and always allowed them.

In this, such a public game with both sides having an AAR by highly seasoned and honorable opponents, it is hard to me to fathom a reason why the do-over would cause any concern other than the inconvenience of having to do a turn over.

Lets get back to the war...I am curious to see how Japan can answer this upriver invasion -- which I am not really sure it really is? Could they just be light moves to cut railway lines for the major landing elsewhere?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/22/2019 1:44:11 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2978

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/22/2019 3:37:44 PM

brian800000

Posts: 225
Joined: 9/15/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I think you're not getting the area being considered here. We're not saying the units should not be disrupted by having their movement stopped or not continuing to their destination. It's entirely historical to interdict railways and the game doesn't model what FB and ground attack F could do in late war to static rails or rolling stock.

I'm hypothesising about dropping a unit to intentionally bring this bug into play. Putting a unit at the end of a rail line on the Chinese border to send a number of units in Saigon (many hundreds of miles away) off on a 40 mile journey from which they're dumped at the side of the tracks and abandoned in a completely different movement mode.

But the counterpoint is that it isn't a bug if used locally, and the opponent has no way of knowing if units are rolling in from 2,000 miles away or will be showing up at the destination the next turn. Tactically the solution is to cut the rail lines where you can.

It doesn't make sense to dump the units out of strat mode 2,000 miles away, but the workaround is there for the player to click a few more times and have more secure destinations.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2979

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/22/2019 5:59:56 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I think you're not getting the area being considered here. We're not saying the units should not be disrupted by having their movement stopped or not continuing to their destination. It's entirely historical to interdict railways and the game doesn't model what FB and ground attack F could do in late war to static rails or rolling stock.

I'm hypothesising about dropping a unit to intentionally bring this bug into play. Putting a unit at the end of a rail line on the Chinese border to send a number of units in Saigon (many hundreds of miles away) off on a 40 mile journey from which they're dumped at the side of the tracks and abandoned in a completely different movement mode.

But the counterpoint is that it isn't a bug if used locally, and the opponent has no way of knowing if units are rolling in from 2,000 miles away or will be showing up at the destination the next turn. Tactically the solution is to cut the rail lines where you can.

It doesn't make sense to dump the units out of strat mode 2,000 miles away, but the workaround is there for the player to click a few more times and have more secure destinations.

Good points.

In my last game I invaded a point where I was concerned units might be railing in, so I landed a regiment sized unit on each side of the invaded bases to cut the rail lines and hold for the time required to capture the base. Never heard any complaint from my opponent so I assume nothing dis-entrained far away (maybe not at all?). No units railed into those hexes either, so I don't even know if any were sent direct or only to nearby cities.

_____________________________

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(in reply to brian800000)

Post #: 2980

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/22/2019 6:33:05 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I think you're not getting the area being considered here. We're not saying the units should not be disrupted by having their movement stopped or not continuing to their destination. It's entirely historical to interdict railways and the game doesn't model what FB and ground attack F could do in late war to static rails or rolling stock.

I'm hypothesising about dropping a unit to intentionally bring this bug into play. Putting a unit at the end of a rail line on the Chinese border to send a number of units in Saigon (many hundreds of miles away) off on a 40 mile journey from which they're dumped at the side of the tracks and abandoned in a completely different movement mode.

But the counterpoint is that it isn't a bug if used locally, and the opponent has no way of knowing if units are rolling in from 2,000 miles away or will be showing up at the destination the next turn. Tactically the solution is to cut the rail lines where you can.

It doesn't make sense to dump the units out of strat mode 2,000 miles away, but the workaround is there for the player to click a few more times and have more secure destinations.

Good points.

In my last game I invaded a point where I was concerned units might be railing in, so I landed a regiment sized unit on each side of the invaded bases to cut the rail lines and hold for the time required to capture the base. Never heard any complaint from my opponent so I assume nothing dis-entrained far away (maybe not at all?). No units railed into those hexes either, so I don't even know if any were sent direct or only to nearby cities.

No, it is not a good point.

Setting closer destinations is not a 100% fix. I have said this several times, and documented it in my AAR several times.

That might be a nice work around if it actually worked, unfortunately the game design feature will knock every unit out of SR mode in a particular base or hex even if those units aren't using the cut railway. Plus it impacts in other ways, which I have described here, and documented in my AAR.

Lets please move on, this particular horse is bloody enough. The players have moved on, at least till it happens again.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 2981

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/22/2019 9:21:05 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: brian800000

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I think you're not getting the area being considered here. We're not saying the units should not be disrupted by having their movement stopped or not continuing to their destination. It's entirely historical to interdict railways and the game doesn't model what FB and ground attack F could do in late war to static rails or rolling stock.

I'm hypothesising about dropping a unit to intentionally bring this bug into play. Putting a unit at the end of a rail line on the Chinese border to send a number of units in Saigon (many hundreds of miles away) off on a 40 mile journey from which they're dumped at the side of the tracks and abandoned in a completely different movement mode.

But the counterpoint is that it isn't a bug if used locally, and the opponent has no way of knowing if units are rolling in from 2,000 miles away or will be showing up at the destination the next turn. Tactically the solution is to cut the rail lines where you can.

It doesn't make sense to dump the units out of strat mode 2,000 miles away, but the workaround is there for the player to click a few more times and have more secure destinations.

Ok. This is the last I'll say on this (until as Lowpe predicts, it happens again). Assume units have been given orders and will move the next turn to a distant location to begin reinforcing in case of the imminent invasion landing there, but there is no indication of any rail cut or landing about to occur. (In the current case the Allies had been steaming around this area for days without landing).

If the rail is cut and the units stay in strat mode, do not move and sit with no orders until the next turn, I'm all in. That works. It's a proper move and no rules are broken for either player.

If the rail is cut and a unit moves into that hex and stops right next to the opponent's unit, stays in strat mode, and has to spend three days detraining while an active unit in combat mode can attack it, I'm still all in. That works too. (It's a bitch when it happens, and it has several times in the South over the past few turns, which I'll elaborate on soon).

If the rail is cut and units make no movement at all, change mode instantaneously to non-strat but do not leave the base, I'm pissed off at having to put them back in strat mode and lose a bit of time, but I play on and my opponent never hears about it.

If the rail is cut, my units in strat mode move forward exactly one hex, (all 15+ units from five different bases on several different rail lines (that later connect), and come out of strat mode instantaneously into move mode, I'm severely handicapped for many future turns. The rules of play have been broken by an AI bug, not by my opponent. Several units would not only be delayed, but would be vulnerable to attack by sea or air along clear hex coastlines, some with yellow roads or even no roads. Some units, if left unmolested, might be back in base and back in strat mode seven days later. All because they had orders to move legally to a very distant base previous to any landing.

Most importantly though. As Lowpe said, if my opponent requests a redo, I know it's for a good reason. Even if it is his mistake. If he forgets to set CAP or hits the wrong button or uses the wrong mid-term save and gets 5 CVs sunk, if he wants to go back and do a turn over, that is fine. This is a long game. Sometimes we just have to give each other a break. We both earn that trust over time.

Dan did do that, even if it was reluctantly at first, and I hope his initial hesitation was more from misunderstanding the situation than anything else.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to brian800000)

Post #: 2982

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/22/2019 9:39:22 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

The game plays as the game plays. Trying to come up with justifications to explain away the quirks, is all well and good but an exercise in role playing and creativity rather than playing the war game.

However, it is fascinating to look at pictures of the Manchuko Railways Headquarters during the war and their substantial amount of sophistication. Ditto for Chinese railways. Also, you get insights into the different gauges present, the lines, how Japan even stripped lines for steel, the effects of bombing...railway service was established 2-3 days after the abomb for example.

Kawasaki built close to 800 of these rolling stock locomotives for Manchuko and they also had over 100 passenger locomotives of very modern design, and from the picture they look pretty nice. A couple years back I posted a picture from Nashville, where an equivalent American locomotive is on display from WW2. I encourage everyone to do some basic searches and reading here, it is really quite fascinating.

It would be super nice to see a more sophisticated railway system in the game. Interdiction for example, but the game will most likely not be beta patched ever again, let alone adding more content.

I think in my WITPAE experience I have asked once for a turn do-over and it was promptly and graciously granted. I have been offered turn do-overs on perhaps 3-5 more occasions and declined them rather living with the results. I have been asked for do-overs probably 3-4 times by my opponents and always allowed them.

In this, such a public game with both sides having an AAR by highly seasoned and honorable opponents, it is hard to me to fathom a reason why the do-over would cause any concern other than the inconvenience of having to do a turn over.

Lets get back to the war...I am curious to see how Japan can answer this upriver invasion -- which I am not really sure it really is? Could they just be light moves to cut railway lines for the major landing elsewhere?

This is a fascinating part of the period I've never considered.

Apparently the South Manchurian Railway modernised effectively through the 30s and had quite a large network and lots of both freight and passenger rolling stock, continuing to increase even into 45.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2983

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 3:07:14 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 9-11, 1945

Now that we're back on track I'll catch up. The replay of turn went about as expected and I asked Dan if all was well from his side. The only response was the turn in my box. I think he's still feeling put out for having to redo, but essentially, it all hurts my side more.

First though, some reports that got lost in the lead to the Allied landings in China.

The 9th had Allied sweeps of Muroran where the P-47N again showed poorly. I think pilots have to be spread thinly now. He only got 1:1 with the best fighter on the board right now.

Also a lot of sub action all over, including a rare hit from an I-boat on a USN fleet boat.

The Allies did take Iriomote, allowing another port base, and this one with a field. In Malaya the IJA division knocks back an armoured block on the rail. This was a case where a movement blocked rail and the units ended up in the same hex. My ID didn't need to come out of strat mode completely to win this one, interestingly. It still had two days unpacking when it attacked, but did well enough.

On the 10th a big raid arrives at Muroran, even though the fighters showed last turn they were more than ready, and the bombers for once arrive before sweepers. It's carnage for the B-24 crews especially, with 30+ downed on the day. Got a handful of B-29s too!

He also sent in the Southern DS to hit Singers. Not much CAP here currently, and a big xAK resources TF leaving. Hit a few small TK too. Yuck.

He did not land the APDs on the redo turn on the 11th. That surprised me. I figured that meant he was steamed and wanted to do that show of force thing that comes so naturally to the Allies at this stage of the war. (I do it too in my Allied game)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 9, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Daito Shoto at 98,68

Japanese Ships
E No.49

Allied Ships
SS Cobia, hits 16, heavy damage

SS Cobia launches 6 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Bunguran at 57,80

Japanese Ships
TK Fujisan Maru
TK Azuma Maru #2
PB Toshi Maru #7

Allied Ships
SS Conger

SS Conger is sighted by escort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Terempa at 55,83

Japanese Ships
PB Hinode Maru #20

Allied Ships
SS Bergall, hits 3

SS Bergall is sighted by escort

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub vs Sub: SS I-36 attacking SS Escolar at 96,56 - near Shanghai

Japanese Ships
SS I-36

Allied Ships
SS Escolar, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

SS I-36 launches 6 torpedoes at 4,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 16 NM, estimated altitude 37,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 39
N1K5-J George x 81
Ki-84r Frank x 1
Ki-100-II Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 13

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 53 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 34
N1K5-J George x 71
Ki-84r Frank x 1
Ki-100-II Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
P-47N Thunderbolt x 46

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 3 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 3 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 7 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet
7 x P-47N Thunderbolt sweeping at 42000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 51,74 (near Kota Bharu)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 14527 troops, 120 guns, 32 vehicles, Assault Value = 447

Defending force 840 troops, 0 guns, 88 vehicles, Assault Value = 39

Japanese adjusted assault: 146

Allied adjusted defense: 27

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
28 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 42 (21 destroyed, 21 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
33rd Division
39th Army
25th Army
4th Air Division

Defending units:
11th PAVO Regiment

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Iriomote (89,65)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 22697 troops, 297 guns, 201 vehicles, Assault Value = 705

Defending force 2513 troops, 20 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 73

Allied adjusted assault: 918

Japanese adjusted defense: 13

Allied assault odds: 70 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied forces CAPTURE Iriomote !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1379 casualties reported
Squads: 60 destroyed, 27 disabled
Non Combat: 9 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 9 destroyed, 1 disabled
Guns lost 23 (21 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled

Assaulting units:
XI Corps Combat Engineer Regiment
6th Marine Division
503rd Parachute Rgt /2
2/16th Field Rgt /1

Defending units:
41st Ind.Mixed Regiment
III/84th Naval Guard Unit

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 10, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Tioman Island at 52,84

Japanese Ships
xAK Belgium Maru, Torpedo hits 2, heavy damage
xAK Taian Maru
xAK Hohuku Maru
xAK Hamburg Maru
xAK Brasil Maru
PB Toshi Maru #8

Allied Ships
SS Menhaden

SS Menhaden launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Belgium Maru
Menhaden bottoming out ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Singkep at 50,86

Japanese Ships
xAKL Junpo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage
PB Chitose Maru

Allied Ships
SS Quillback

SS Quillback launches 6 torpedoes at xAKL Junpo Maru
Quillback bottoming out ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Singkep at 50,86

Japanese Ships
xAKL Kosho Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
PB Chitose Maru

Allied Ships
SS Quillback

SS Quillback launches 6 torpedoes at xAKL Kosho Maru
Quillback bottoming out ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 213 encounters mine field at Singapore (50,84)

Allied Ships
SS Shakespeare, Mine hits 1, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Singkep at 50,88

Japanese Ships
PB Chitose Maru, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Porpoise

SS Porpoise launches 6 torpedoes
Porpoise bottoming out ....
Sub escapes detection

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 71 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 1

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 23
Barracuda II x 37

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Avenger II: 1 damaged
Avenger II: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese Ships
xAK Sugiyama Maru, Torpedo hits 1
xAK Argun Maru, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Jintsu
xAK Hokuzyu Maru
xAK Unyo Maru, Torpedo hits 1
xAK Kyokko Maru
xAK Ehime Maru
xAK Syokyu Maru
xAK Yahiko Maru
xAK Kenzan Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Ryuyo Maru
DD Harukaze
xAK Tyoko Maru
xAK Ryuzan Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Barracuda II launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Bintan at 52,86

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Allied aircraft
Avenger I x 7

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
TK Azuma Maru #2, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
TK Kuremente Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x Avenger I launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Bintan at 52,86

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 16

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
TK Kaijo Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
TK Fujisan Maru, Torpedo hits 3, and is sunk
PB Toshi Maru #7, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
TK Amatsu Maru

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Avenger II launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 45
N1K5-J George x 71
Ki-84r Frank x 21
Ki-100-II Tony x 18

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 38
B-29-1 Superfort x 28
B-29-25 Superfort x 16
P-38L Lightning x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed, 18 damaged
B-29-1 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 16 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged
P-38L Lightning: 6 destroyed

Resources hits 20
Heavy Industry hits 67
Light Industry hits 6

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 33
N1K5-J George x 56
Ki-84r Frank x 16
Ki-100-II Tony x 10

Allied aircraft
Thunderbolt II x 5
B-24J Liberator x 20
B-29-25 Superfort x 11
F-6D Mustang x 18

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 3 destroyed, 15 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
F-6D Mustang: 3 destroyed

Resources hits 13

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 25 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 26
N1K5-J George x 42
Ki-84r Frank x 7
Ki-100-II Tony x 4

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 2 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 5 destroyed, 13 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak

Resources hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 15
N1K5-J George x 25
Ki-84r Frank x 5
Ki-100-II Tony x 3

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 24

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
N1K5-J George: 1 destroyed
Ki-84r Frank: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 20 damaged

Resources hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Muroran , at 120,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 6
N1K5-J George x 12
Ki-84r Frank x 1
Ki-100-II Tony x 2

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Singapore at 50,84

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 73 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-45 KAIa Nick x 5

Allied aircraft
Avenger II x 37
Barracuda II x 35
Seafire IIC x 18
Wildcat V x 20

No Japanese losses

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
xAK Hokuzyu Maru, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk
CL Jintsu
xAK Unyo Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Hokusin Maru, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Kurohime Maru
xAK Argun Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Kyokko Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Zuiko Maru
xAK Ryuzan Maru, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Kenzan Maru, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Aki Maru, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Ehime Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Sugiyama Maru
xAK Kosin Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Barracuda II launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Mk XII Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bangkok (56,62)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 350928 troops, 4336 guns, 4096 vehicles, Assault Value = 10031

Defending force 8780 troops, 110 guns, 28 vehicles, Assault Value = 102

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 0

Allied adjusted assault: 10208

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 10208 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Bangkok !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), op mode(-), disruption(-)
preparation(-), fatigue(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
6340 casualties reported
Squads: 421 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 112 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 73 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 117 (117 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (12 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2
Units destroyed 1

Allied ground losses:
300 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 44 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
41st Infantry Division
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
1st New Chinese Corps
6th Australian Division
I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion
3rd New Chinese Corps
11th Indian Division
193rd Tank Battalion
9th Indian Division
XV Corps Engineer Battalion
7th Indian Division
7th Australian Division
5th Indian Division
18th British Division
11th (East African) Division
32nd Infantry Division
23rd Indian Division
3rd Commando Brigade
Americal Infantry Division
5th Chinese Corps
14th Indian Division
19th Motorised Division
40th Infantry Division
Provisionl Tank Brigade
27th Infantry Division
29th British Brigade
9th Australian Division
97th Field Artillery Battalion
24th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
30th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment
Y' Force
2/11th Field Regiment
86th Medium Regiment
8th Mahratta AT Gun Regiment
XXXIII Indian Corps
8th Medium Regiment
2nd USMC Field Artillery Battalion
122nd British AT Gun Regiment
134th Medium Regiment

Defending units:
21st Division
35th JAAF AF Bn
II/81st Nav Gd /1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 11, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Tungchow (92,53)

TF 731 troops unloading over beach at Tungchow, 92,53

Allied ground losses:
293 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 43 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 49 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 25 (0 destroyed, 25 disabled)
Vehicles lost 41 (0 destroyed, 41 disabled)

15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of KNIL Mariener Bde /6
15 Support troops lost in surf during unload of 1st Eng Amph Bde /4

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Mergui at 51,63

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 5,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 damaged
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
LSD Catamount, Bomb hits 1, on fire
AGC Bibb, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x E13A1 Jake bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 56,63 (near Bangkok)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 1212 troops, 3 guns, 113 vehicles, Assault Value = 63

Defending force 2326 troops, 19 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 13

Allied adjusted assault: 15

Japanese adjusted defense: 2

Allied assault odds: 7 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: disruption(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), disruption(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
835 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 84 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Vehicles lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 2

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
193rd Tank Battalion

Defending units:
21st Division
35th JAAF AF Bn

--

Ground combat at Tungchow (92,53)

Allied Bombardment attack

Attacking force 1781 troops, 68 guns, 78 vehicles, Assault Value = 601

Defending force 1387 troops, 15 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 48

Japanese ground losses:
145 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 12 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Assaulting units:
815th Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
6th USMC Tank Battalion
24th Infantry Division
KNIL Mariener Brigade
503rd Parachute Rgt /1
1st Eng Amph Bde /3
382nd Const Rgt /1
37th Infantry Div /4
2nd Medium Regiment
154th FA Bn /1
1st Medium Rgt /1

Defending units:
15th RGC Temp. Division
61st Ind.Mixed Bde /5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2984

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 3:15:22 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Here is a shot of the landing at Tungchow. No unit blocking the rail. I've got about 1,000AV in strat mode one hex NW of that spot in Pengpu. I think he wants to bock me as I'm moving in with a bigger landing, messing up my units in strat mode with naval bombardments and striking before they can unpack. I've decided to hold off.

The main object is to get 2k AV of some decent units into Shanghai. I have some flying in, some walking in, and the railed units wold have been extra to make it more like 3k AV, with another 1k AV for Nanking. These hexes have such a good modifier I'd like to defend there, but I may have to forego Nanking completely and concentrate on Shanghai.

Shanghai is forts 7, and x4 UH terrain. If I can keep it supplied it should be tough.

So. The idea now is to build up a lot at Pengpu next to his block, see if he does in fact continue a landing there, and then either force through in a few days by walking across, or more likely, threaten that, making him move this way while I get more into Shanghai, then pulling the mass back to central China, preparing for stage 2 defences. I will have a chance to sweep with Ki-83 against the DS and whatever he can fit on the new base at Tungchow.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2985

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 7:05:37 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline

Back on track, eh? Pun intended?

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2986

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 7:17:50 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Back on track, eh? Pun intended?

Haha. Must have been on my mind. Somehow.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lokasenna)

Post #: 2987

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 8:11:41 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 12-13, 1945

So, after waiting an extra day the Allies land on the 13th between Pengpu and Nanking cutting the rail. Guess what?

Very interesting. Stranded units in move mode with no destination, even though we ran the turn again, and even though none had a destination past Pengpu. I hadn't paid as much attention to destinations the first go around, because I knew some had been destined for Shanghai, but I'd thought some were sent to Suchow, Haichow and Tsingtsao as well. I'd missed in the hubbub that indeed, they had been. Found a big CD gun base force at Haichow this turn, which made it after the redo, but must have been stuck previously.

So now I've got a regiment and an AA gun unit stranded and luckily on grey roads, so only a 3-4 day delay with moving back and getting into strat mode again. I think that's it, so not so painful this time, but hats off to Lopwe for pointing out this possibility so at least I caught them right away. So many pieces in motion in the late game it's hard to keep track of it all.

The Allies pile out into the bases across the river from Shanghai, including what look like a gaggle of armoured units at Kiangtu, near Nanking. This looks to be a major invasion, not just a diversion, and a serious attempt to defend the rail blockade.

Meanwhile the reinforcement of Shanghai proceeds, with nearly 1,600 AV now in the base and 400 AV one hex out.

In the South the Allies try a lot of little para landings on the rail lines from Bangkok. All of them fail, luckily.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 12, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sub attack near Iwo-jima at 103,80

Japanese Ships
AO Shiriya, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
PB Tokotsu Maru

Allied Ships
SS Moray

SS Moray launches 6 torpedoes at AO Shiriya

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tungchow (92,53)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 24811 troops, 415 guns, 646 vehicles, Assault Value = 612

Defending force 1327 troops, 16 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 33

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 1

Allied adjusted assault: 767

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 767 to 1 (fort level 1)

Allied forces CAPTURE Tungchow !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), disruption(-), preparation(-), fatigue(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1778 casualties reported
Squads: 60 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 66 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 20 (20 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 2

Allied ground losses:
53 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
503rd Parachute Regiment
815th Towed Tank Destroyer Battalion
24th Infantry Division
6th USMC Tank Battalion
KNIL Mariener Brigade
382nd Const Rgt /1
33rd Medium Regiment
9th USMC Field Artillery Battalion
154th FA Bn /1
2nd Medium Regiment
234th USN Base Force
1st Eng Amph Bde
37th Infantry Div /4
1st Medium Rgt /1

Defending units:
15th RGC Temp. Division
61st Ind.Mixed Bde /5

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Battambang (58,65)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 239 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 21

Defending force 2171 troops, 25 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 27

Allied adjusted assault: 2

Japanese adjusted defense: 53

Allied assault odds: 1 to 26 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
149 casualties reported
Squads: 9 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
77th Indian Para Bde /1

Defending units:
I/84th Naval Guard Unit
37th Const Co
201st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kompong Chhnang (59,68)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 96 troops, 4 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7

Defending force 1341 troops, 22 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 10

Allied adjusted assault: 0

Japanese adjusted defense: 21

Allied assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)

Allied ground losses:
73 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
77th Indian Para Bde /2

Defending units:
91st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Ubon (62,63)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 658 troops, 13 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9

Defending force 394 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 16

Allied adjusted assault: 5

Japanese adjusted defense: 13

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), leaders(+), leaders(-), preparation(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
24 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
38 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Assaulting units:
44th (Support) Bn /4

Defending units:
5th Indpt SNLF Coy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Allied Unit(s) Wiped Out at Kompong Chhnang by attrition!!!!!!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 13, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amphibious Assault at 90,51

TF 136 troops unloading over beach at 90,51 (near Pengpu, blocking rail)

Allied ground losses:
169 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 38 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 59 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 17 (0 destroyed, 17 disabled)
Vehicles lost 9 (0 destroyed, 9 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Kiangtu (91,51)

TF 99 troops unloading over beach at Kiangtu, 91,51

Allied ground losses:
Vehicles lost 12 (0 destroyed, 12 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2988

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 9:00:01 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 14, 1945

On the 14th a few interesting raids and some more landings to strengthen the rail blockade. It looks like almost 10k troops there now.

A big B-29 raid hits Sapporo at night. The Allies still lose 6-8 B-29s to flak and NF.

The Allies also ran a raid over Harbin that met some weak CAP, but the Tojo's there did get to a few escorts. The Allies get a decent set of hits on the base. I'm surprised this hasn't been annihilated over the past year.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 14, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Amphibious Assault at 90,51

TF 10 troops unloading over beach at 90,51

Allied ground losses:
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Iriomote at 89,64

Japanese Ships
xAK Sekiho Maru, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
SC Ch 22
xAK Teiryu Maru
xAK Syoto Maru
PB Nagata Maru

Allied Ships
SS Flasher

SS Flasher launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Sekiho Maru
Flasher diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 194 encounters mine field at Shanghai (92,55)

Allied Ships
DD Hammann, Mine hits 1

2 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval Gun Fire at Singapore - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Allied Ships
SS Stygian, Mine hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 74 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 8
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 20

Allied aircraft
B-25H Mitchell x 3
B-29-1 Superfort x 14
B-29-25 Superfort x 41
B-29B Superfort x 5

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-1 Superfort: 2 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 8 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak
B-29B Superfort: 1 damaged

Manpower hits 112
Fires 79255

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 6
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 23

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 6
B-29B Superfort x 10

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 2 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 damaged

Manpower hits 96
Fires 133515

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 20 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 6
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 26

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 11

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 6 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Manpower hits 16
Fires 143190

Aircraft Attacking:
11 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Sapporo , at 120,51

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 44 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
J1N1-Sa Irving x 6
Ki-45 KAId Nick x 20

Allied aircraft
B-29B Superfort x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-29B Superfort: 2 damaged
B-29B Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-29B Superfort bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 36 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Nanking at 91,52

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 10 damaged
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
DD Roebuck

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 6
Port hits 2
Port fuel hits 1

DD Roebuck firing at Nanking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Daito Shoto at 101,76, Range 18,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
E Amakusa, Shell hits 6, on fire
E Ikuna, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
SC Ch 7, Shell hits 9, and is sunk
AO Ken'yo Maru, Shell hits 12, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
AO Kokuyo Maru, Shell hits 8, heavy fires
AO Toho Maru, Shell hits 6, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Mayo, Shell hits 3
DD Madison

Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions: 28,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Bunguran at 61,84

Japanese Ships
xAKL Sunten Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAKL Heiwa Maru
PB Hakka Maru

Allied Ships
SS Thorough

SS Thorough launches 2 torpedoes at xAKL Sunten Maru
Thorough diving deep ....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 40,090 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-100-II Tony x 41

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 4
P-38L Lightning x 14
F4U-1A Corsair x 6
F4U-1D Corsair x 10
F6F-3 Hellcat x 4
F6F-5 Hellcat x 9

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-100-II Tony: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Harbin , at 109,39

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 69 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 23 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-44-IIc Tojo x 9

Allied aircraft
B-24J Liberator x 70
P-47N Thunderbolt x 22
P-51D Mustang x 39

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-44-IIc Tojo: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-24J Liberator: 22 damaged
P-47N Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed

Resources hits 12
H8K2-L Emily factory hits 1
Heavy Industry hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 8000 feet *
City Attack: 5 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 55th Ind.Mixed Brigade, at 61,59 (Udon Thani)

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-17F Fortress x 2
B-24J Liberator x 6
B-25J1 Mitchell x 7
B-25J11 Mitchell x 10

Allied aircraft losses
B-17F Fortress: 2 damaged
B-24J Liberator: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25J1 Mitchell: 2 damaged
B-25J1 Mitchell: 1 destroyed by flak
B-25J11 Mitchell: 5 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
32 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x B-24J Liberator bombing from 9000 feet
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/27/2019 7:17:23 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2989

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/26/2019 10:41:16 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

A few things I've been meaning to put up. Here are some looks at the economy.

Still got s good load of fuel. Supply starting to run down, but still, the economy is running well. Struggling for resources in the HI though. Still have some coming in from the South since the DS is occupied invading China.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2990

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/27/2019 12:22:06 PM

Lowpe

Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

May 12-13, 1945

but hats off to Lopwe for pointing out this possibility

Lopwe? That's a silly name.

Sounds like a bunny rabbit name.

No problem, so sorry it is happening as it makes doing turns a bear not to mention the impact on your tactics.

For most players this is uncharted territory, and it seems most have well thought out logical, but faulty, assumptions on how this quirk (or more likely, series of quirks) triggers and impacts the game.

Very nice economy

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/27/2019 1:11:30 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2991

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/27/2019 9:09:01 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

May 12-13, 1945

but hats off to Lopwe for pointing out this possibility

Lopwe? That's a silly name. Sounds like a bunny rabbit name.

No problem, so sorry it is happening as it makes doing turns a bear not to mention the impact on your tactics.

For most players this is uncharted territory, and it seems most have well thought out logical, but faulty, assumptions on how this quirk (or more likely, series of quirks) triggers and impacts the game.

Very nice economy

I hope there aren't too many more times that blocking the rail will be critical. I'll see also if I can return the favour sometime. I still do have some paras around.

I've been a bit hampered not using Tracker this time. I got a bit behind on the resources after the Toyohara loss and then the burning of the big centres on Hokkaido. Tokyo is failing to run several days a week now.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 2992

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/27/2019 10:08:37 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 15, 1945

On the 15th the Allies pile more on. They now have CAP up so its a great opportunity to sweep. The Ki-83s do well, as do the N1K5.

The Allies try to bomb Pengpu with B-29s, and lose a few to flak from the big base forces now there. Very little damage done on the ground.

I accidentally let one of the Chinese IJA units shock over the river into the rail block, so at least I know what's there now. Not intended though and that particular unit is done for this war.

Lots of troops being flown into the Shanghai area now. This could still work out to be a long siege, but of course naval and air bombardments will dictate a lot too.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 15, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Naval bombardment of Nanking at 91,52 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 6 damaged
A7M2 Sam: 1 destroyed on ground
Ki-83: 24 damaged

20 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Ceylon
DD Roebuck
DD Zellars, Shell hits 2
DMS Gherardi

Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 41
Port hits 8
Port fuel hits 2
Port supply hits 2

CL Ceylon firing at Nanking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub vs Sub: SS Mapiro attacking SS I-36 at 97,56 - near Saishu To

Japanese Ships
SS I-36, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS Mapiro

SS Mapiro launches 6 torpedoes at 2,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 42,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 33

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 7
P-38L Lightning x 6
P-47N Thunderbolt x 16
P-51D Mustang x 33
F4U-1A Corsair x 13
F4U-1D Corsair x 15
F6F-3 Hellcat x 4
F6F-5 Hellcat x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 6 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed
P-38L Lightning: 1 destroyed
P-47N Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 5 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 47,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 34
Ki-100-II Tony x 16

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 3
P-38L Lightning x 2
P-47N Thunderbolt x 9
P-51D Mustang x 41
F4U-1A Corsair x 9
F4U-1D Corsair x 8
F6F-3 Hellcat x 3
F6F-5 Hellcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 3 destroyed
Ki-100-II Tony: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 2 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 3 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 44 NM, estimated altitude 45,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 27

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 2
P-38L Lightning x 4
P-47N Thunderbolt x 6
P-51D Mustang x 30
F4U-1A Corsair x 12
F4U-1D Corsair x 8
F6F-5 Hellcat x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 2 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 3 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 2 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 46,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 47

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 1
P-38L Lightning x 3
P-47N Thunderbolt x 5
P-51D Mustang x 20
F4U-1A Corsair x 4
F4U-1D Corsair x 3
F6F-5 Hellcat x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-47N Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 5 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet *

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 7th Base Force, at 90,50 (Pengpu)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 60 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 9
A-20G Havoc x 7

Allied aircraft losses
A-20G Havoc: 1 damaged
A-20G Havoc: 4 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
19 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x A-20G Havoc bombing and strafing from low level *
Ground Attack: 2 x 500 lb GP Bomb

Also attacking 31st Special Base Force ...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 11 NM, estimated altitude 47,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 45
Ki-100-II Tony x 6

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 1
P-47N Thunderbolt x 3
P-51D Mustang x 5
F4U-1A Corsair x 2
F4U-1D Corsair x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed
P-47N Thunderbolt: 1 destroyed
P-51D Mustang: 2 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 7th Base Force, at 90,50 (Pengpu)

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 32 NM, estimated altitude 22,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 9 minutes

Allied aircraft
B-29-25 Superfort x 35

Allied aircraft losses
B-29-25 Superfort: 13 damaged
B-29-25 Superfort: 1 destroyed by flak

Japanese ground losses:
85 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 10 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x B-29-25 Superfort bombing from 18000 feet *
Ground Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Singapore at 49,85

Japanese Ships
xAK Josho Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
PB Suyozai Maru

Allied Ships
SS Stratagem, hits 6

SS Stratagem launches 6 torpedoes at xAK Josho Maru

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 90,51 (near Nanking)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 4076 troops, 16 guns, 6 vehicles, Assault Value = 169

Defending force 7292 troops, 51 guns, 168 vehicles, Assault Value = 305

Japanese adjusted assault: 0

Allied adjusted defense: 150

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99

Combat modifiers
Defender: experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), disruption(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2123 casualties reported
Squads: 67 destroyed, 132 disabled
Non Combat: 4 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Vehicles lost 7 (5 destroyed, 2 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd RGC Capital Division

Defending units:
Port Moresby Brigade
194th Tank Battalion
503rd Parachute Regiment
14th NZ Brigade

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 51,74 (near Kota Bharu)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 32788 troops, 630 guns, 467 vehicles, Assault Value = 721

Defending force 4696 troops, 22 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 121

Allied adjusted assault: 405

Japanese adjusted defense: 75

Allied assault odds: 5 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+)
Attacker: fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
2411 casualties reported
Squads: 33 destroyed, 70 disabled
Non Combat: 41 destroyed, 22 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 6 disabled
Guns lost 11 (5 destroyed, 6 disabled)
Units retreated 1

Allied ground losses:
335 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
20th Indian Division
8th Indian Division
208th Field Regiment

Defending units:
21st Ind.Mixed Brigad
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2993

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 4:55:25 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Some of these larger groups are being converted to kamis now as I lose about 250 airframes worth of groups to withdrawals this month. Why they withdraw now I can't understand, but whatever. I'll just make more fighter groups from the training groups. They can multi-train as they fly CAP as well, enhancing defensive skill.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2994

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 4:57:04 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Not too many IJN pilots left to train!!

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2995

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 5:00:29 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

May 16, 1945

The Allies continue to land more troops at the rail blocking location. I'm still amazed at how ready these troops are immediately. The late war Allied landing craft and APDs must really be the key there.

I've decided for sure to forgo a contest for this hex South of Pengpu, and will hang on for a few more threatening while Shanghai continues to beef up and take air drops of more troops. The Pengpu troops will rail around to Wuchang for deployment along the river and into the good defensive territory in Eastern China.

Sweeps are mixed but come out even today, with the main body of Ki-83 missing the Allied CAP after he decided the LR CAP wasn't worth it.

In the South the Allies are sending some smaller units and armor forward to gain rail bases. So far they've been thwarted which is fun. Small IJ unit hold Battambang and the minor level 3 forts and jungle must be the key factors. Meanwhile tanks rush into the Thai and Laotion plains making for Udon Thani. I've got a decent force there, and I hope to hold and force the use of major IDs and tank brigades to break through. We'll see.

My army is nearly all in strat mode moving into China now. It'll be fun to have all three tank divisions there soon. I'll set up some holding positions to slow the Allies and either force them to cross rivers into good terrain with level 6-7 forts or go around the long way. Time is key.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 16, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

TF 808 encounters mine field at Shanghai (92,55) - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

19 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
DMS Gherardi, Shell hits 1

Chugoku JNAF Base Force firing at DMS Gherardi
DMS Gherardi firing at Chugoku JNAF Base Force
5 mines cleared

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Nanking at 91,52 - Coastal Guns Fire Back!

53 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
CL Nigeria
DD Perkins
DD Shaw, Shell hits 1
DMS Boggs

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 1

CL Nigeria firing at Nanking

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Naval bombardment of Shanghai at 92,55

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A7M2 Sam: 10 damaged
Ki-83: 16 damaged
Ki-83: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
CL Ceylon
DD Roebuck
DD Zellars

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 28
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 29

CL Ceylon firing at Shanghai
DD Roebuck firing at Shanghai
DD Zellars firing at Shanghai

Morning Air attack on Tungchow , at 92,53

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 39,370 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K5-J George x 10

Allied aircraft
P-51D Mustang x 2
P-38L Lightning x 4
P-47N Thunderbolt x 10
P-51D Mustang x 48
F4U-1A Corsair x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K5-J George: 4 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-51D Mustang: 1 destroyed

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 503rd Parachute Regiment, at 90,51 , near Nanking

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 46,530 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 30
Ki-100-II Tony x 8

Allied aircraft
F4U-1A Corsair x 4
F4U-1D Corsair x 7
F6F-3 Hellcat x 3
F6F-5 Hellcat x 6

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 2 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 2 destroyed

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41530 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Kiangtu , at 91,51

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 20 NM, estimated altitude 42,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-83 x 11

Allied aircraft
Corsair IV x 11
F4U-1D Corsair x 11

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-83: 2 destroyed

No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Ki-83 sweeping at 41000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Aogashima at 114,69

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 41 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
D4Y4 Judy x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y4 Judy: 2 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Charles Hughes
DD Benson, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb

Banzai! - Ikura W. in a D4Y4 Judy is willing to die for the Emperor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Hwaiyin (92,50)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1260 troops, 7 guns, 147 vehicles, Assault Value = 53

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Allied adjusted assault: 29

Japanese adjusted defense: 1

Allied assault odds: 29 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Hwaiyin !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: leaders(+), leaders(-)

Assaulting units:
767th Tank Battalion

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Battambang (58,65)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1354 troops, 2 guns, 92 vehicles, Assault Value = 72

Defending force 2209 troops, 28 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 30

Allied adjusted assault: 32

Japanese adjusted defense: 51

Allied assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), preparation(-)
Attacker: disruption(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
128 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 5 (2 destroyed, 3 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Carabiniers Regiment
77th Indian Para Bde /1

Defending units:
I/84th Naval Guard Unit
I/66th Nav Gd /1
37th Const Co
201st JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These DDs did manage to hit some very nice big oilers the previous turn, but now the air strikes find them.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/28/2019 5:07:58 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2996

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 5:09:56 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Air losses of the day very even.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2997

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 5:14:12 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Here is the info screen. I thought this was the month where the Allies took a decisive lead. I'm shocked I'm still up by 1k+ VPs, and my new goal is to hold on to the lead until June 45. After that it's just see what happens. I'll do my best though to avoid the DS for now.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2998

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 5:30:32 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

The map of the critical area in China. While the Allies have gained solid ground and bases that can be built up quickly, there is a lot for them still to do, and Japanese units are flooding in from all directions. A lot will depend on their focus vs dispersion, and what the ultimate goals are of this invasion.

Is this another foothold to gain a different strat bombing and sweeping position? Is it to conquer all of China and get the VPs associated with that? Is it to get a foothold to jump to Korea/Manchuria?

There are a lot of options. Korea is now very ready, and Manchuria close. China is wide open, but vast. It'll take a while to get going either way, and it's a long road for the Allied armies from Burma to get purchase and add their strength. There is a lot of good defensive territory and some very good forts as well. I need to drop as much supply now as possible into the place.

Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 2999

RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/28/2019 5:58:31 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Not too many IJN pilots left to train!!

_____________________________

Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 3000

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