RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A)

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 10:56:19 AM

Lowpe

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Very big investment in Peggy T, that is all.

One factory of nick d, so it can start production right away?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 12:18:38 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Very big investment in Peggy T, that is all.

One factory of nick d, so it can start production right away?

I think in my first game that went late I noticed that it was hard to train IJA pilots fast enough for these getting them in mid-44. So if I can get them earlier, train guys up and have them ready to roll in mid-44 instead of late-44 then maybe they can have more effect when Japan is still in fighting shape (if we are still holding on at that point). When they actually flew and broke through they were very effective.

They also didn't fly too often. Not sure if this related to HQ, group leaders, pilots lacking experience (most in low 50s), or some combo of all of the above. If I can dual train in naval search/TT then I think it would increase chances to have high DL and groups might have more of a chance to fly.

Something more to test! Since I just reinstalled I may have to make a new testbed, as I still have a list of things to try.

For the Nick Id it would start converting in 4/44 once they are available. That seems soon enough as I'll have around 3-4 Irving groups by then, and only get 1-2 Nick Id group that is not [R] by around that time.

I have to look back through and find all of the units that can use the Nick Id. I checked tracker and only found these there, but I was sure in my previous game that I had seen a lot more. Am I wrong?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/28/2016 12:20:03 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 12:28:39 PM

Speedysteve

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Very big investment in Peggy T, that is all.

One factory of nick d, so it can start production right away?

I think in my first game that went late I noticed that it was hard to train IJA pilots fast enough for these getting them in mid-44. So if I can get them earlier, train guys up and have them ready to roll in mid-44 instead of late-44 then maybe they can have more effect when Japan is still in fighting shape (if we are still holding on at that point).

I'm taking a similar approach. Will be interesting to see who gets there first!

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 1:09:58 PM

Lowpe

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Here is the information on the Army NF for scenario one.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3895701&mpage=1&key=night%2Cfighter%2Cupgrade�

Scenario 2 you might also have the 264th Sentai?

Realize that in a PDU on game you might have upgraded a squadron out of the night fighter path.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/28/2016 1:15:03 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 1:15:35 PM

Lowpe

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Your logic is sound on the Peggy T...just so much on one bomber. But you have conserved elsewhere, so I bet you are successful the gambit.

Train your Army pilots now in Nav Search -- shouldn't be a problem. Then transfer them into the Peggy T for torpedo training.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 4:36:50 PM

Lokasenna

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PDU On?

Why Oscars (they kinda suck)? Why no Ki-102a?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 5:43:32 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

PDU On?

Why Oscars (they kinda suck)? Why no Ki-102a?

Yeah, PDU on.

Oscars because although they suck for CAP, they do make very good LR escorts. Late as bombers are longer ranged the Oscar can be useful in that role. Better than the A6M3a with armor and there are more army groups after the July 44 purge of IJN fighter groups withdrawing. They also make good kamis and decent low naval strike planes with 2 x 250kg. The last version with CL 20mm is not so bad in low CAP either.

I'm not researching the Ki-102a but I could make some. I don't know if I will though. It didn't strike me as great the first time around because it was a fighter, not FB, and isn't faster or better than other fighters available, but is more expensive with 2 engines. It is durable at 36.

Should I reconsider? How have you used it and do you find it better than either Ki-84b or Ki-100 (or Ki-83 which I'll have shortly after it's arrival date) in that role?

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 5:47:08 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Your logic is sound on the Peggy T...just so much on one bomber. But you have conserved elsewhere, so I bet you are successful the gambit.

Train your Army pilots now in Nav Search -- shouldn't be a problem. Then transfer them into the Peggy T for torpedo training.

Yes. Once the next gen Lily DB pilots are trained I'll do this. I could train from those Lily pilots too in a pinch, although it would take longer to gain TT skill.

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 5:54:24 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Here is the information on the Army NF for scenario one.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3895701&mpage=1&key=night%2Cfighter%2Cupgrade�

Scenario 2 you might also have the 264th Sentai?

Realize that in a PDU on game you might have upgraded a squadron out of the night fighter path.

Thanks for the link. I remember that post!

This is Scen 1 so no luck there.

I also remember a FP group for IJNAf that converts to NF. I'll have to look for that.

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 6:03:31 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Very big investment in Peggy T, that is all.

One factory of nick d, so it can start production right away?

I think in my first game that went late I noticed that it was hard to train IJA pilots fast enough for these getting them in mid-44. So if I can get them earlier, train guys up and have them ready to roll in mid-44 instead of late-44 then maybe they can have more effect when Japan is still in fighting shape (if we are still holding on at that point).

I'm taking a similar approach. Will be interesting to see who gets there first!

Collaboration is hopefully our goal here! I hope we both get there.

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 6:05:15 PM

Lokasenna

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

PDU On?

Why Oscars (they kinda suck)? Why no Ki-102a?

Yeah, PDU on.

Oscars because although they suck for CAP, they do make very good LR escorts. Late as bombers are longer ranged the Oscar can be useful in that role. Better than the A6M3a with armor and there are more army groups after the July 44 purge of IJN fighter groups withdrawing. They also make good kamis and decent low naval strike planes with 2 x 250kg. The last version with CL 20mm is not so bad in low CAP either.

I'm not researching the Ki-102a but I could make some. I don't know if I will though. It didn't strike me as great the first time around because it was a fighter, not FB, and isn't faster or better than other fighters available, but is more expensive with 2 engines. It is durable at 36.

Should I reconsider? How have you used it and do you find it better than either Ki-84b or Ki-100 (or Ki-83 which I'll have shortly after it's arrival date) in that role?

I haven't gotten to it yet in my game, but I faced off against it as the Allies. It was the one plane I couldn't handle very well. It shot down lots of P-47s, as it goes up to 44.something thousand feet - higher than anything the Allies have, so nothing ever dives on it.

I agree the Oscar-IV isn't awful, but it's been very mediocre for me. The cannons make it OK at 2E interception and such, but the durability is so poor... I haven't gotten to kamis yet, and haven't had much chance to strafe enemy ships with those bombs. Other than the range, the Ki-100 is just better at all of that: same CL cannons but also has guns, 2x250kg bombs, better durability. Same speed. Slightly worse climb, I suppose.

I didn't have a great experience trying to LR escort with A6M3a, so I stopped building it. You bring up a good point about the IJN July 44 fighter apocalypse, and the Oscar-IV might be worth using to escort LR naval strikes. But I've also used Georges, which help punch through the CAP better, and the stock A6M5 has just 1 less range than the Oscar-IV at 12. All that said, I'm not finding many opportunities to launch strikes beyond 8-10 hexes or so.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 7:16:38 PM

obvert

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Good to know on the Ki-102a. Didn't consider altitude. The CL guns are certainly good.

Agreed on the Ki-100. I would like to make it my main service 1 late war. I also have a lot of hope for Ki-67 (T) strikes and the Oscar is nice to go out to the full 14 hexes. I see rear area opportunities for this kind of thing, or to help support CVs at a distance. One of my goals is to have some bases that can function behind enemy lines for Grace/Judy strikes at supply shipping and the like. There is so much to handle as Allis late something always slips, or at least it did vs Jocke, and I didn't even plan for those strikes.

Georges, Jacks, all of the better fighters do punch through better, but I don't always want my best pilots dying in droves on escort missions, so it's either a constant pilot management task or picking my poison and using something like the Oscar. I'Ll see a we go, and if its mediocre maybe I'll shut the program down and use the remainder for kamis.

I think I'll add some Ki-102a based on your rec.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 8:18:14 PM

Lowpe

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Oscar III actually has better range than IV. No dual cannons though...

Frank A makes for far better kamikazes than does the Oscar IV. And Frank B when you get them are great long range escorts too.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/28/2016 8:20:32 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 8:38:00 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Oscar III actually has better range than IV. No dual cannons though...

Frank A makes for far better kamikazes than does the Oscar IV. And Frank B when you get them are great long range escorts too.

Yep. Still, those are all service 3 and for escorts that's not always great. It's always a dilemma as Japan because there is never a perfect solution.

I'll have to get back to testing to see if my memory is working in my favor or against me about some of these late war things. But first I have to get there, and at lest right now the Oscar is needed to get there, and I'm glad for the LR IIIa.

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/28/2016 8:39:44 PM >

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 8:58:24 PM

obvert

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Here is a look at the economy. I'll have to spend a few months ramping up for late war fighters and will need a lot more engines. I've done a lot of calculations and decided to just go ahead and upgrade most factories now, so that'll be a supply drain for a while.

I'm also standing down the KB for refits and to conserve fuel. I think 17k+ is high for fleet fuel use, so I'll be interested to see where it goes in about 5-6 days.

EDIT: I just realized this was from just over a month ago, the first turn I reloaded into Tracker. Still, it gives an idea and it hasn't changed much since.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/28/2016 9:02:43 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 9:25:34 PM

Lowpe

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Oscar III actually has better range than IV. No dual cannons though...

Frank A makes for far better kamikazes than does the Oscar IV. And Frank B when you get them are great long range escorts too.

Yep. Still, those are all service 3 and for escorts that's not always great. It's always a dilemma as Japan because there is never a perfect solution.

I'll have to get back to testing to see if my memory is working in my favor or against me about some of these late war things. But first I have to get there, and at lest right now the Oscar is needed to get there, and I'm glad for the LR IIIa.

Just being Devils Advocate. I think there is a place for Oscar all the way thru the game.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/28/2016 10:25:35 PM

obvert

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Here is a map of SW China. I've decided to go get the last remaining major base available at Sining. Good amount of VPs and some decent resources. It's useful since there is no strat bombing in China allowed also, but mainly because VPs out here might never be reconquered. Why not grab?

Also, I'll walk up to Yenang and see if I can take that too, but it's less for VPs and more to get the few resources. I noticed in my Tracker regional analysis that China is a bit low on resources. I don't think in my last game Ihad so much working industry here, and I'd like to make it self sufficient.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/29/2016 7:26:34 AM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/29/2016 10:15:00 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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I am not so familiar with tracker, do I read this right and you have an oil deficit of -1510 per day and 768 757 units left ?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/29/2016 11:09:15 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

I am not so familiar with tracker, do I read this right and you have an oil deficit of -1510 per day and 768 757 units left ?

I think it does mean I'm refining more than I'm taking out of the ground. Not sure there's anything to do about that though. What I have to continue doing is try to conserve fuel.

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/29/2016 11:52:33 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

I am not so familiar with tracker, do I read this right and you have an oil deficit of -1510 per day and 768 757 units left ?

I think it does mean I'm refining more than I'm taking out of the ground. Not sure there's anything to do about that though. What I have to continue doing is try to conserve fuel.

True, I was just curious because such a small deficit is sustainable for awhile.
Your armament pool is a bit low tho. You will need alot of points for the plethora of reinforcments you get in 44/45.
If you have shut down some factories I would suggest to turn them on again.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/29/2016 11:54:50 PM

Lowpe

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Oil is a toughy...

You may look at turning oil refining off at some of the big refineries in the SRA and shipping the oil back to the HI. Of course a lot depends where the oil and fuel are now.

The question you have is do you want fuel and a point of supply in the SRA now, or oil being refined in the HI in Honshu in 45? You can offset the decreased fuel input by fleet conservation now.

Your fuel stocks look good to me for a Scenario 1 beast.

Just don't go hog wild with warships as seems to be the case when you took that industry chart snapshot.

Given your history, by hook or by crook I suspect this game will go into 45 pretty far. Plan now for it.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 4/29/2016 11:58:45 PM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/29/2016 11:57:19 PM

obvert

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2 November, 1943

BURMA: Nothing going on here but I did notice that due to the update most of the AA regiments mysteriously lost their 75mm guns?

Any thoughts?

CENT PAC: The TF at Marcus seems to drop more supply and then leaves. Before getting out though another midget sub attack sinks the Julia Luckenbach. As the ships pull away our Jakes get into it and sink a small freighter, the xAK Ensley City, with 5 x 50kg. Our troops bombard (with 2 guns) to see what is still here, and low and behold, there are still at least portions of two divisions, a tank battalion and two base forces!

We destroy 4 devices with the two guns. I'll send in the Netties next turn and see what they can do.

SW PAC: Moved recon in close to have a look at NE OZ.

ECON: Curious to see how the economy will react to my recent changes, slowing base building, turning off some engines and planes, changing up ship building a bit and generally streamlining. Trouble is my tracker suddenly won't run the global industry area won't work to show differences per turn. Grrrrrr.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR November 1, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Marcus Island at 123,85

Japanese Ships
SSX Ha-29

Allied Ships
xAK Julia Luckenbach, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

xAK Julia Luckenbach is sighted by SSX Ha-29
SSX Ha-29 launches 2 torpedoes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Marcus Island at 130,85

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 3

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Ensley City, Bomb hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x E13A1 Jake bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Marcus Island (123,85)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 656 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 132

Defending force 12282 troops, 134 guns, 234 vehicles, Assault Value = 142

Allied ground losses:
34 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)

Assaulting units:
Sasebo 7th SNLF
62nd Naval Guard Unit
78th Naval Guard Unit
2nd South Seas Gsn /1
Kwajalein Base Force

Defending units:
1st Cavalry (Spec) Cavalry Division
1st USMC Amphb Tank Battalion
143rd USA Base Force
146th USA Base Force
25th Infantry Division
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/30/2016 12:02:49 AM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/29/2016 11:59:36 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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Those AA guns got "recently" changed to 8cm guns in the database, you might have a glitch here. Are they gone or do you have different guns ?

< Message edited by Gr�fin Zeppelin -- 4/30/2016 12:01:53 AM >

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:00:10 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

I am not so familiar with tracker, do I read this right and you have an oil deficit of -1510 per day and 768 757 units left ?

I think it does mean I'm refining more than I'm taking out of the ground. Not sure there's anything to do about that though. What I have to continue doing is try to conserve fuel.

True, I was just curious because such a small deficit is sustainable for awhile.
Your armament pool is a bit low tho. You will need alot of points for the plethora of reinforcments you get in 44/45.
If you have shut down some factories I would suggest to turn them on again.

All are going full bore continually!

I just checked in tracker and at this point I would need about ~150k armaments points to fill out units still to arrive or to expand. So I'll keep it going to work on a pool for losses. For vehicles we've just about equalled need for new units now.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:00:55 AM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

Those AA guns got "recently" changed to 8cm guns in the database, you might have a glitch here. Are they gone or do you have different guns ?

Ahhhhh, that could be it.

_____________________________

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:01:42 AM

Lowpe

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Losing the AA guns -- you most likely need to apply AndyMacs (God bless him

) scenario patch again.

Happened to me, and problem solved.

I think I have a thread or two on it in the tech support forum.

So excited to see the old format!

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 896

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:02:39 AM

Grfin Zeppelin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gr�fin Zeppelin

I am not so familiar with tracker, do I read this right and you have an oil deficit of -1510 per day and 768 757 units left ?

I think it does mean I'm refining more than I'm taking out of the ground. Not sure there's anything to do about that though. What I have to continue doing is try to conserve fuel.

True, I was just curious because such a small deficit is sustainable for awhile.
Your armament pool is a bit low tho. You will need alot of points for the plethora of reinforcments you get in 44/45.
If you have shut down some factories I would suggest to turn them on again.

All are going full bore continually!

I just checked in tracker and at this point I would need about ~150k armaments points to fill out units still to arrive or to expand. So I'll keep it going to work on a pool for losses. For vehicles we've just about equalled need for new units now.

Good good. Your managment of the Japanese economy is exemplary I must say.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:03:48 AM

Lowpe

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Isn't 440 point of Armaments a little lowish?

252 Armor seems a little high.

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 898

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:05:23 AM

Grfin Zeppelin

Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Isn't 440 point of Armaments a little lowish?

252 Armor seems a little high.

Good catch, he should have 620 or so in armament.

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(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 899

RE: The Elephant Vanishes :: obvert (J) vs SqzMyLemon (A) - 4/30/2016 12:07:13 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lowpe

Oil is a toughy...

You may look at turning oil refining off at some of the big refineries in the SRA and shipping the oil back to the HI. Of course a lot depends where the oil and fuel are now.

The question you have is do you want fuel and a point of supply in the SRA now, or oil being refined in the HI in Honshu in 45? You can offset the decreased fuel input by fleet conservation now.

Your fuel stocks look good to me for a Scenario 1 beast. Just don't go hog wild with warships as seems to be the case when you took that industry chart snapshot.

Given your history, by hook or by crook I suspect this game will go into 45 pretty far. Plan now for it.

Yeah, much of the supply from Palembang is feeding Burma armies right now, and the rest of the SRA is sending it around to build defenses and to the Pacific. So it is useful and probably saves on fuel to transport supply rather than sending oil to HI and supply back down. .

Wish I had a big refinery on Babeldaob to feed the Pacific!

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"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)

Post #: 900

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