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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_SqzMyLemon_Canoerebel (A)

 
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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 1:17:40 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: CaptBeefheart

I haven't read too much of your AAR since I had this idea that I might advise CR and didn't want to break OPSEC, but my advice has pretty much been limited to ideas on how to structure amphibious TFs. I must say I can pick up a lot of small details from reading your side of the story.

I see you've tried some night air attacks on ships. Have you ever had any luck with that and, if so, under what circumstances?

By the way, kudos to both of you gentlemen for keeping this struggle very, very interesting.

Cheers,
CB


Soe have gotten a few hits. A Kate landed a 250kg bomb from 1k on an LST or LCI a while back. I haven't hit the big boys with more flak in recent memory, but I know I did a bit in the game with Jocke. That was before flak fixes though.



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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 1:21:06 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert
... I'm guessing this could be a multi-stage set of invasions, with opportunity dictating how many bases are taken. ...

I'm only an occasional viewer here, but from what I am looking at in your screenshots I would be thinking the same thing.
I wouldn't be surprised if he had a half dozen or more locations prepped in his convoys. Good idea, makes it hard to react.
On the other hand with only a couple of units prepped for a target, it means you have better odds to dislodge him as he won't have overwhelming force prepped for wherever he does land.

Good Luck!



Out of the 30-40 bases that have been reconned lately, several with small units are in range right now for him, including Wenchow. I left very little there as its so isolated. I figured it's impossible to defend the Chinese coastline to the South, but if I make the North more attractive and invite a landing at a place like Wenchow, at least I have time to move troops on the rail to react.

About half of the Chinese Expeditionary Force is in the mountains containing the Chinese from re-entering their territory. It'll be easy going for a while no matter where the Allies land, but I hope to make the big VP targets a struggle at least.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/11/2019 2:17:38 PM >


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 1:39:30 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Out of the 30-40 bases that have been retconned lately, several with small units are in range right now for him, including Wenchow. I left very little there as its so isolated.


Keep in mind that Wenchow works both ways. It'll be rather difficult for him to move out from there quickly. But, he can dump a bunch of stuff there and build it up quickly. He can do that anywhere, so that's a moot point.

You have some naval forces it that area, right? How much intel do you think he has on them? What do you have?

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 1:41:44 PM   
obvert


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I haven't been showing as much of the economy and production as I should at this point in game. I'll try to do some updates on this before everything falls apart here late. It does seem we're reaching a turning point, so maybe good to document where things are before that.

These are the air and engine production numbers.

I've highlighted in red the most important (to me)for this endgame in order to protect everything else; F/FB/NF

In green are the MB/DB/TB/R/TR/FP/PAT

In blue are the ready but not producing airframes

The orange is active R & D that is producing points.

I'm running short on Ha-34 as is shown here, but building more. The Shinden is arriving in June and also uses this engine, so I'll be just about caught up by mid-June barring other destructive events. I'll turn the Patsy on when I can, maybe.

The Ha-35 is running on it's pool and underproducing, as is the Ha-32 with a much smaller pool. I've shut off the Emily and might turn the Emily transport off soon.

I'm overproducing Ha-45 to be able to make the Frank and others late into the game, hopefully. I've also got a lot of Ha-33 which give me the Randy line, an important part of my production now as the NF comes online and with the others an important part of Home Island defence.





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/11/2019 2:09:59 PM >


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Post #: 2854
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 1:44:08 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli


quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Out of the 30-40 bases that have been retconned lately, several with small units are in range right now for him, including Wenchow. I left very little there as its so isolated.


Keep in mind that Wenchow works both ways. It'll be rather difficult for him to move out from there quickly. But, he can dump a bunch of stuff there and build it up quickly. He can do that anywhere, so that's a moot point.

You have some naval forces it that area, right? How much intel do you think he has on them? What do you have?


I had one 5 CA 5 DD TF in the firing line plus one 1 CL 8 DD TF. I've moved the CAs to Shanghai to get under CAP. The CL led TF went to Takao to take the other edge. I'll see what opportunities develop, but I won't charge headlong into the fray with either. I'd like anyway to either plan a big combined strike and naval sortie or see an opportunity to catch stragglers.

Wenchow is just far enough it adds little to his capability in terms of sweeps, and he can already hit the entire HI from the North with the B-29s. He can use it to support further ops effectively, and that is why I would take it if I were him, but that is again a bit more time consumptive. In early May he has to begin moving somewhat quickly, I'd think.

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/11/2019 1:45:57 PM >


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 2:58:40 PM   
Mike Solli


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I'd go for stragglers too. If you sent them headlong into that mess, I'd wager you didn't hit anything important before being overwhelmed. Gotta get your VP worth out of them.

Looking at your aircraft/engine production, I see some things I'd question continuing to build.

Aichi Ha-60 engine: only building 5 but all you're using them for is the D4Y2-C. Are you sure you need to make any more? 1138 in the pool should last you through the end of the war.
Ha-31: You're only building the Nick at 30 (2E) but building the engines at 45. With 205 in the pool you'll run out in 13.6 months. You should be good through the end of the war.
Ha-32: Building 405, using 502. With 93 in the pool, you'll be out by the end of the month. You need to do something here.
Ha-33: Building 770, nice engine reserve of 1015. Building 679. Are you planning on increasing any production? Maybe the Dinah III? I'm sure they get shot down in droves. I don't know the difference between the Randy a and c, but you may want to look at that instead of building both. You're producing an excess of 91 so be careful here if you do increase production somewhere.
Ha-43: Building 795 increasing to 985. Production is 873. This is a big time late war engine. Surplus of 13, but you're building up to a 112 surplus. I hope you have more than 1 factory increasing so it takes less than 190 days. Take a look at this one, especially if you plan on increasing production of something here.
Ha-34: No production, 116 in pool. you're building 40 Helen IIb and 8 Helen transports. You'll be out in just over a month. You have 894 bombers in the pool and 1 transport. Not sure what you're planning, but I suspect you're building the bombers for Kamikazes. Do you want 8 more transports?
Ha-35: Building 270, 844 in the pool, using 513. You'll run out in 3.5 months. I recommend cancelling the Tojo. They're far outclassed now (and have been for quite a while). You have 221 in the pool so they'll still be available for some time yet. Also, the Nick KAIa. You have a lot of different models building. It may be time to reduce to a few based on need, engine type, capability, etc.
Ha-44: What's your plan here? No production, 266 in the pool, researching the Ki-94-II with 1 factory at 6(24) due in 1/46. Just curious...
Ha-45: Another biggie. Production 762 building to 816. 1279 in the pool. All good. Production at 642. Room to expand here should you feel the need. Why are you building the N1K2-J George if you're already building the K5? Seems like 40 wasted engines.

Just a few thoughts...


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 3:14:54 PM   
Mike Solli


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Concerning the Ha-32, I'd recommend canning the Jack. Do you really like it? I don't build it so I'm not sure. I can't recall why I decided not but build it. That was many years ago. At any rate, something needs to give there.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 3:41:34 PM   
Lowpe


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Jack does well as a point defense interceptor, and has different characteristics in countering enemy sweeps. I am a big fan. It is better than George for some defensive tasks, whereas the George is better for offensive -- generally speaking.

Most JFBs go one way or the other, and I think that is a mistake.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 3:56:53 PM   
Lowpe


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You need to work on your JFB status here...

Where are the late game toys like the Betty 2e and Ohka?

Tell us about your Kaiten fleet of Iboats and Light Cruisers?

Where are you last ditch dedicated Kamikaze builds?

You have the Patsy but no production?

At least you will have the Shinden, so I guess you are still ok.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 3:58:48 PM   
mind_messing

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

Here is a more detailed shot. I did make a effort to hit the rear just on the turn he moved NW. Some ships spread to the North and only a few screening TFs stayed to the sides on the North. I don't think the KB launched. LBA came from everywhere though which is good.

Now I'll move things back and keep the LR strikes on. The KB will be in range of Kume-jima and ready to roll. I don't think the Allies will want a fight on our terms though. With defensive additions from nearby LBA the KB can hope to stand up to the much larger DS. Maybe.






I see this screenshot and it just screams out the need for disruption task forces of any IJN ship that floats, just to cloud the battlespace!

If you're considering a carrier engagement, I'd throw those merchant convoys (provided they're empty) into the combat zone

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 4:04:20 PM   
Lowpe


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quote:

ORIGINAL: mind_messing

I see this screenshot and it just screams out the need for disruption task forces of any IJN ship that floats, just to cloud the battlespace!

If you're considering a carrier engagement, I'd throw those merchant convoys (provided they're empty) into the combat zone


I see that screen and it screams to me this game is going to last a lot lot longer...even if Obvert did nothing. Which makes me happy.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 5:04:18 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I'd go for stragglers too. If you sent them headlong into that mess, I'd wager you didn't hit anything important before being overwhelmed. Gotta get your VP worth out of them.

Looking at your aircraft/engine production, I see some things I'd question continuing to build.

Aichi Ha-60 engine: only building 5 but all you're using them for is the D4Y2-C. Are you sure you need to make any more? 1138 in the pool should last you through the end of the war.
Ha-31: You're only building the Nick at 30 (2E) but building the engines at 45. With 205 in the pool you'll run out in 13.6 months. You should be good through the end of the war.
Ha-32: Building 405, using 502. With 93 in the pool, you'll be out by the end of the month. You need to do something here.
Ha-33: Building 770, nice engine reserve of 1015. Building 679. Are you planning on increasing any production? Maybe the Dinah III? I'm sure they get shot down in droves. I don't know the difference between the Randy a and c, but you may want to look at that instead of building both. You're producing an excess of 91 so be careful here if you do increase production somewhere.
Ha-43: Building 795 increasing to 985. Production is 873. This is a big time late war engine. Surplus of 13, but you're building up to a 112 surplus. I hope you have more than 1 factory increasing so it takes less than 190 days. Take a look at this one, especially if you plan on increasing production of something here.
Ha-34: No production, 116 in pool. you're building 40 Helen IIb and 8 Helen transports. You'll be out in just over a month. You have 894 bombers in the pool and 1 transport. Not sure what you're planning, but I suspect you're building the bombers for Kamikazes. Do you want 8 more transports?
Ha-35: Building 270, 844 in the pool, using 513. You'll run out in 3.5 months. I recommend cancelling the Tojo. They're far outclassed now (and have been for quite a while). You have 221 in the pool so they'll still be available for some time yet. Also, the Nick KAIa. You have a lot of different models building. It may be time to reduce to a few based on need, engine type, capability, etc.
Ha-44: What's your plan here? No production, 266 in the pool, researching the Ki-94-II with 1 factory at 6(24) due in 1/46. Just curious...
Ha-45: Another biggie. Production 762 building to 816. 1279 in the pool. All good. Production at 642. Room to expand here should you feel the need. Why are you building the N1K2-J George if you're already building the K5? Seems like 40 wasted engines.

Just a few thoughts...



Thanks Mike. With the KB debacle on day 2 I planned for an air and land war from that point on. I tried to stay somewhat conservative though about numbers in the mid-war and my surplus, or lack of it in most cases, is due to Dan pushing hard ever since he took over.

The Ha-43 has two factories building up and so will be good to go for the fighters currently producing in just under a month, and for the Shinden in two months. Now I might add a few onto a couple of other factories just to speed that a bit. The big ones here are converted Ha-35 factories.

The Ha-33 will improve when I shut off the Emily transport in a few days.

For the Helen I'll shut off with about 30 left so I can build the transport. I may convert the bomber of just let it sit. Depending on what happens here.

I'm building the N1K2 in order to use more of the Ha-45 instead of the Ha-43. It's still useful with Service 2, and a very good escort. I am not still enlarging the factories for this one. Those are strat bombing damaged, and will not be repaired.

For the Ha-35 I know I'm overproducing. The Tojo is still good in low CAP system. Also a decent escort to 8 hexes. The Nick 1a will be phased out, but I've been converting a lot of MB to FB to train more pilots, and for just a bit more durable CAP and escort. This works well for both, and will also be a decent kami with high durability, armour, and fast (for a kami).

For the Randys I'll keep making all of them. The 1c is the NF. The 1a is the F. The 1b the FB. The fighter has 44k altitude. The NF is the best in game.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 7:33:44 PM   
obvert


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Ship Losses. This shows several of the xAKs, but there should be 2-3 more.






Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/11/2019 10:35:02 PM >


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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/11/2019 8:15:19 PM   
Mike Solli


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Death by a million cuts.

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RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:21:52 AM   
obvert


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May 4, 1945


On the 4th I tried to create as much confusion as I could around Kume. Some of it seems to have worked. The Allies take the base, but we retake it by para assault! Very fun. No other real action on the day in the North. The DS and mob move slightly forward past Okinawa.

The Allies assault and will take Georgetown on Malaya within a day or two. I've got enough to hold for the time being at Taiping, but just one enough to get troops to rail down from the North. It all collapses quickly when it does.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 4, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Night Time Surface Combat, near Kume-jima at 94,65, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
LB-101, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-102
LB-103
LB-104
LB-105, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
LB-106
LB-107
LB-108
LB-109, Shell hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
LB-110
LB-111, Shell hits 2, on fire
LB-112, Shell hits 1, and is sunk


Allied Ships
APD Kline
APD Bunch


Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 46% moonlight: 5,000 yards

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Iriomote (89,65)

TF 684 troops unloading over beach at Iriomote, 89,65

Allied ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (0 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Shanghai at 95,59

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 33 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 4
SB2C-4 Helldiver x 6

No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
E Hatsutaka
TK Gen'yo Maru, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x SB2C-4 Helldiver releasing from 4000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 97,62

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 6 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes

Japanese aircraft
N1K2-J George x 3

Allied aircraft
F6F-5 Hellcat x 14
SBD-6 Dauntless x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
N1K2-J George: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
SBD-6 Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
xAK Tofuku Maru
xAK Jinsai Maru, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Utide Maru, Bomb hits 1, on fire
xAK Taihei Maru, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage


Aircraft Attacking:
9 x SBD-6 Dauntless releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 1000 lb SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Georgetown (49,74)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 19287 troops, 535 guns, 212 vehicles, Assault Value = 835

Defending force 5368 troops, 23 guns, 152 vehicles, Assault Value = 157

Allied engineers reduce fortifications to 5

Allied adjusted assault: 424

Japanese adjusted defense: 69

Allied assault odds: 6 to 1 (fort level 5)

Allied Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: forts(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
717 casualties reported
Squads: 24 destroyed, 15 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 6 (2 destroyed, 4 disabled)
Vehicles lost 24 (4 destroyed, 20 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1206 casualties reported
Squads: 39 destroyed, 109 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 24 disabled
Guns lost 31 (1 destroyed, 30 disabled)
Vehicles lost 8 (1 destroyed, 7 disabled)


Assaulting units:
Lushai Brigade
11th PAVO Regiment
8th Indian Division
IV Corps Engineer Battalion
20th Indian Division
82nd (West African) Division
475th USA Rgt /6
1st Indian Medium Rgt /1
156th USA Base Force
126th RAF Base Force /2

Defending units:
4th Raiding Regiment
26th Tank Regiment
Yokosuka 3rd SNLF
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
93rd JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kume-jima (94,65)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 389 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 23

Defending force 209 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 9

Japanese adjusted assault: 15

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 15 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Kume-jima !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
72 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Allied ground losses:
238 casualties reported
Squads: 11 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1


Assaulting units:
2nd Glider Inf. Rgt /1
1st Glider Inf. Rgt /1

Defending units:
503rd Parachute Rgt /1
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Down in Burma things have been going somewhat smoothly with troops leaving the area by rail. The Allies are infiltrating everywhere along Malaya though, and the capture of Georgetown means a split defence until I can rail some troops from Chumpon down the East side. Hopefully that goes well so I can get 1k AV into Singers at least.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 2865
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:29:26 AM   
obvert


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May 5, 1945


The Allies pour more troops into Kume and our minor effort to keep it is thwarted. It must have been prepped, as there are now 17k troops there with 600AFVs!
Some go wayward though, and DBs nail a few troop carrying ships, including an LSD near Amami Osima. I think they fled home somehow and got off the main track. Mistakes could be useful here if I can get lucky, but it will be tricky to make it all work.

Georgetown falls.

The DS again moves just a bit NW. Toward China.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR May 5, 1945
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pre-Invasion action off Kume-jima (94,65)

2 Coastal gun shots fired in defense.

Allied Ships
LCI(M)-660
LCI(R)-342
LSM-19
DE Parle
LSM-52

Japanese ground losses:
301 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 10 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 1 disabled

Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)

LCI(M)-660 fired at enemy troops
LCI(R)-342 fired at enemy troops

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 97,64

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A7M2 Sam x 19
B7A2 Grace x 4
D4Y3 Judy x 6

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 4
F4U-1A Corsair x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 7
F6F-5 Hellcat x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
D4Y3 Judy: 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
LCI-985, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI-984, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI-799, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
DE Parle, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage


Allied ground losses:
513 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 20 destroyed, 16 disabled
Engineers: 7 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 8 (8 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 97,64

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 80 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 26 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 17
A7M2 Sam x 12
B7A2 Grace x 8
D4Y3 Judy x 10

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 4
F4U-1A Corsair x 5
F4U-1D Corsair x 6
F6F-5 Hellcat x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 1 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 3 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 3 damaged
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
FM-2 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4U-1A Corsair: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
LSM-53, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSM-19, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk

LCI(M)-660
LCI-982, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
LCI(R)-342, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
LSD Cabildo, Bomb hits 1, on fire


Allied ground losses:
469 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 21 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 5 (4 destroyed, 1 disabled)
Vehicles lost 4 (2 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Aircraft Attacking:
8 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Georgetown (49,74)

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 20032 troops, 557 guns, 227 vehicles, Assault Value = 740

Defending force 4719 troops, 23 guns, 149 vehicles, Assault Value = 97

Allied adjusted assault: 416

Japanese adjusted defense: 16

Allied assault odds: 26 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Georgetown !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: preparation(-), fatigue(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)

Japanese ground losses:
1616 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 7 disabled
Non Combat: 116 destroyed, 24 disabled
Engineers: 55 destroyed, 2 disabled
Guns lost 12 (3 destroyed, 9 disabled)
Vehicles lost 140 (140 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units retreated 4
Units destroyed 1


Allied ground losses:
702 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 62 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 19 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 13 (1 destroyed, 12 disabled)
Vehicles lost 2 (2 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
82nd (West African) Division
IV Corps Engineer Battalion
8th Indian Division
Lushai Brigade
20th Indian Division
11th PAVO Regiment
475th USA Rgt /6
156th USA Base Force
1st Indian Medium Rgt /1
126th RAF Base Force /2

Defending units:
4th Raiding Regiment
26th Tank Regiment
Yokosuka 3rd SNLF
9th Ind. Engineer Regiment
93rd JAAF AF Bn

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2866
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 12:48:18 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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I made a choice to move forward and begin the process of trying to disrupt the DS. I placed the KB just SW of Kyushu. Surrounding I sent several ASW and surface TFs and vectored all nearby resource and fuel hauls still incoming to the area. I'd been trying to squeeze them through as a last flood of stuff before the dark days begin.

I set the KB to 7 hexes, just out of range of the DS from the previous vector and position, but enough to catch the wayward LSD TF and any others that ventured out.

Fingers crossed nothing comes flying. I hope to engage not tomorrow but the day after. All kinds of LBA are set to the same distance as KB.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2867
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 12:52:58 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I made a choice to move forward and begin the process of trying to disrupt the DS.




_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2868
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 12:54:05 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline
Hey obvert, what are your fuel/oil/resource/supply stockpiles in the Home Islands? Just curious how long everything will last should you be cut off from the SRA.

_____________________________


Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 2869
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 12:58:58 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Unless he jigs to Korea, the KB will be safe for a day

Sure looking like Formosa, or China, or both. Lets hope he goes one or the other.

What are your monster runways in the area? Roughly how many land based planes can you throw at this monster?

Losing Formosa at this stage is no big deal, I think...and I would gladly let it go..fully realizing that China would be next, but the Allies would have lost time, giving you more to escape your armies back to a defensive perimeter of your choosing.

Remember that as important as VP are, buying time is also important.

Didn't Dan go Formosa, then China against JohnIII? Odd to do it again then.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/12/2019 12:59:15 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2870
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 6:09:55 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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The night phase shows a lot of ship movements. Night search picks up bogeys a bit close for comfort.

As day breaks the number of search hits in the middle of the North China Sea is staggering, and the number shot down unprecedented. Both sides suffer, which means only one thing; we're both in range and sending strikes.

The first strike is LBA heading in high and fast. The escorts do weaken the CAP, but it is huge and daunting. As some die more arrive. We weren't quite ready, but oh, well, here goes nothing.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to Lowpe)
Post #: 2871
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 6:16:00 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Excruciatingly, several other combats take place during the entirety of the two phases. It is relieving to see Jakes hit unloading transports at Kume-jima at least.

Two very good escort groups then lead a group of Peggy-T in and manage to get 6 through the Blue Blanket. They whiff, but it's encouraging.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Morning Air attack on TF, near Kume-jima at 94,65

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 33 NM, estimated altitude 4,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 16 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 15
Ki-83 x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 damaged
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied Ships
xAP Kota Tjandi, Bomb hits 2, on fire
LST-126, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage


Aircraft Attacking:
14 x E13A1 Jake bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Nago at 93,61

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 36,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5 Zero x 36
N1K2-J George x 31
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy x 34

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 25
Corsair IV x 42
Hellcat I x 7
Hellcat F.II x 18
Seafire IIC x 15
Seafire L.III x 29
F4F-4 Wildcat x 26
FM-2 Wildcat x 18
F4U-1A Corsair x 180
F4U-1D Corsair x 429
F6F-3 Hellcat x 491
F6F-5 Hellcat x 624

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5 Zero: 7 destroyed
N1K2-J George: 12 destroyed
Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy: 20 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed


Allied Ships
AKA Algol
LCI-640

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Ki-67-Ia (T) Peggy launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2872
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 6:20:42 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Avengers bounce like gnats off of the KB CAP and the LBA extra CAP comes to play as well. Dozens of Allied planes are downed by the defence, but it's even more on the other side. I wonder if there will be anything left of the KB strike to go in.

The morning phase ends without any strikes from either carrier group.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2873
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 6:58:13 PM   
Lowpe


Posts: 22133
Joined: 2/25/2013
Status: offline
Good luck!

I hope Ningpo has a big garrison! Also, just as worrisome, is the damn river prevents CD guns and mines from working, so he could be going up stream. The cd guns will work against an invasion, but not for ships just traversing thru.

I learned this the hard way, like most things.

< Message edited by Lowpe -- 2/12/2019 6:59:45 PM >

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2874
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 7:43:52 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
The afternoon phase begins with a good Judy strike against the LSD TF that again moved out of the range of most of the CV air cover. I'm not sure what's happening with that.

Anyway, a few 500kg bombs get to eh LSDs this time.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Amami Oshima at 97,63

Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid detected at 72 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 18 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M5b Zero x 19
D4Y1 Judy x 14

Allied aircraft
FM-2 Wildcat x 5
F6F-5 Hellcat x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M5b Zero: 4 destroyed
D4Y1 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
F6F-5 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
LSD Oak Hill, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
LSM-52, Bomb hits 2, and is sunk
LSD Shadwell, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires


Aircraft Attacking:
10 x D4Y1 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2875
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 7:46:45 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Next is more LBA going for the mob, with exactly one Frances making it through to attack BB Arkansas. It was summarily dispatched by flak.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Nago at 93,61

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 119 NM, estimated altitude 34,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 35 minutes

Japanese aircraft
P1Y2 Frances x 40
Ki-43-IV Oscar x 50

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 28
Corsair IV x 46
Hellcat I x 7
Hellcat F.II x 18
Seafire IIC x 15
Seafire L.III x 34
F4F-4 Wildcat x 24
FM-2 Wildcat x 18
F4U-1A Corsair x 178
F4U-1D Corsair x 489
F6F-3 Hellcat x 556
F6F-5 Hellcat x 675

Japanese aircraft losses
P1Y2 Frances: 20 destroyed
P1Y2 Frances: 1 destroyed by flak
Ki-43-IV Oscar: 15 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
F6F-3 Hellcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
BB Arkansas

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x P1Y2 Frances launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo





Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2019 7:47:17 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2876
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 7:50:30 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
Then the almost dreaded moment; the KB strike arrives. It's kind of small, and I am instantly worried this is not going to be a good day. The escorts fight hard, hitting back against the massive CAP right until they're all wiped out. The CAP tears into the strike planes, which flare like fireflies, and by the end, only three make it through. Yikes.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Nago at 93,61

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 40 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 19
A7M2 Sam x 100
B7A2 Grace x 37
D4Y3 Judy x 45
D4Y4 Judy x 25

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 27
Corsair IV x 46
Hellcat I x 7
Hellcat F.II x 18
Seafire IIC x 15
Seafire L.III x 34
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23
FM-2 Wildcat x 18
F4U-1A Corsair x 174
F4U-1D Corsair x 480
F6F-3 Hellcat x 551
F6F-5 Hellcat x 667

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 8 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 50 destroyed
B7A2 Grace: 27 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 32 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 14 destroyed
D4Y4 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied aircraft losses
Seafire L.III: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 8 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 6 destroyed


Allied Ships
BB Queen Elizabeth

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x D4Y4 Judy releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2877
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:01:01 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
The Jakes have another go and again hit ships at Kume. Something good happening at least.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Kume-jima at 94,65

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid detected at 31 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 15 minutes

Japanese aircraft
E13A1 Jake x 14
Ki-83 x 2

No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAK Anniston City, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires
LST-244, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAP Kota Tjandi, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage


Aircraft Attacking:
14 x E13A1 Jake bombing from 1000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2878
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:05:05 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
A second KB strike then appears. This is even more feisty, giving a good account, but again, still can't get the bombers through. Only 10 make it. One torpedo hit on Kalinin Bay is the result. Not the strikes I'd hoped for but still no sign of a return from the Allied CVs.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Nago at 93,61

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M8 Zero x 62
A7M2 Sam x 69
B6N2a Jill x 48
B7A2 Grace x 31
D4Y3 Judy x 24
D4Y4 Judy x 73

Allied aircraft
Corsair II x 27
Corsair IV x 46
Hellcat I x 7
Hellcat F.II x 18
Seafire IIC x 15
Seafire L.III x 31
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23
FM-2 Wildcat x 16
F4U-1A Corsair x 174
F4U-1D Corsair x 470
F6F-3 Hellcat x 510
F6F-5 Hellcat x 635

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M8 Zero: 24 destroyed
A7M2 Sam: 31 destroyed
B6N2a Jill: 29 destroyed, 4 damaged
B6N2a Jill: 1 destroyed by flak
B7A2 Grace: 19 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 9 destroyed
D4Y3 Judy: 1 destroyed by flak
D4Y4 Judy: 50 destroyed


Allied aircraft losses
Hellcat F.II: 1 destroyed
Seafire L.III: 2 destroyed
F4U-1D Corsair: 1 destroyed
F6F-3 Hellcat: 6 destroyed
F6F-5 Hellcat: 4 destroyed


Allied Ships
CVE Manila Bay
CVE Liscome Bay
CVE Kalinin Bay, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x D4Y3 Judy releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 500 kg SAP Bomb
8 x B6N2a Jill launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Naval Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------





Attachment (1)

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2879
RE: The Elephant Vanishes : obvert (J) vs Historiker_Sq... - 2/12/2019 8:14:19 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
No Allied strike comes. As I'd suspected, this seems to be a fleet set up to defend only. A look around makes me absolutely sick, as a CV TF moved forward to 3 hex range to the KB, having split from the Allied mob, and it would have been completely vulnerable had either of my KB strikes (or even some of the LBA) targeted it. Arrrgggg!!!

I played with how much to restrict range, and was going to go for five hexes, but couldn't quite stomach leaving CVs without a chance to hit back if the Allies had sent strikes of their own.

The on caveat here is that the KB is untouched. I can refill tomorrow if needed, but of course won't now be striking at all. I may need the KB still, so I'll try to conserve it until it's all back up and running well.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 2/12/2019 8:15:20 PM >


_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 2880
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