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RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse

 
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RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 8:44:08 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 9

The Soviet units shuffle to get the best odds, without exposing themselves to too much danger if the attack is a disaster.

In the air, the Soviets take no chances, pouring bomber after bomber into the hex, together with an escorting fighter. The Germans take a chance and bring their Stuka in too!

The air battle is 5 vs 1 in the Soviets favour. Could be costly indeed for the Germans here...

The Luftwaffe throw a 16 (DA) the MiG-1 aborts
The Allies throw an 18 (AX PX) the Stuka is destroyed and the pilot killed




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 841
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 8:47:10 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		As per doctrine 2d10 crt

-4 ~ Snow*
-6 ~ Blizzard*
∗ +1 ~ for each winterized unit attacking in Snow or Blizzard.
-2 ~ for each winterized unit defending in Snow or Blizzard.
Note: Winterised units are Ski, MTN, Swedish, Finnish,
Norwegian, white print SS and white print Russian units. When
benefitting from winterised units, the first loss must be from one
of these units (further losses don't have to be from them).

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 842
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 8:47:28 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 9

The Soviets add four to the attack with the bombers that got through. They are then asked do they want winterised units to lead the attack? The answer of course is yes.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 843
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 8:51:17 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 9

The Soviets, with a +10 modifier, choose the Blitz table and.....

....they wish to goodness they had chosen Assault! Its an 8 - becomes an 18. The Defender retreats and half the attackers are disorganised..




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 844
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 8:55:22 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 9

Amazingly the turn continues on. Well the Soviets straightened the line and shot down a Stuka and pilot - it was not too shabby an attack - but it could have been better




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 845
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 8:59:42 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 9

The Soviets, with a +10 modifier, choose the Blitz table and.....

....they wish to goodness they had chosen Assault! Its an 8 - becomes an 18. The Defender retreats and half the attackers are disorganised..


Back in Berlin some of the smarter Generals whisper among themselves, "The soviets are learning to attack."

All in all a good operation.


_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 846
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 9:04:52 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 9

The Soviets, with a +10 modifier, choose the Blitz table and.....

....they wish to goodness they had chosen Assault! Its an 8 - becomes an 18. The Defender retreats and half the attackers are disorganised..


Back in Berlin some of the smarter Generals whisper among themselves, "The soviets are learning to attack."

All in all a good operation.

warspite1

Indeed - There are grumblings by the Germans that T-34's are available in huge numbers, and frankly, the Soviets are not playing fair!!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 847
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 9:13:16 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1

quote:

ORIGINAL: Klydon

Some questions for you Warspite/Bob. You mentioned "This allows both a FW-190 and a He-100 to fly in support. The Soviets have loads of bombers but only one 5-quality fighter.. they decide not to risk it." and I see both the 190 and the HE-100 both disorganized as if they have been used. When you flew the Condor in for ground support, did you just show up with those two as well for escorts?

If you did, it wasn't necessary as both are in intercept range of the hex in question. You could have flown in the bomber alone. Had the Russians shown up with fighters, you can counter intercept with either or both of the FW-190/HE-100. The odds are they still would not have intercepted given the presence of the two fighters, but it would not have "burned" your fighters. Only when a hex you want to bomb isn't in range of intercept do you really want to send in fighter escorts (unless you have some planes in the back and want to move them up some anyway and keep your front line fighters available).

warspite1

Where are you getting that info from? Could it be the post attack re-base? Pre the attack, those two fighters were definitely NOT in interception range. They needed the Condor to be able to fly to the hex.



My bad on that. I had not considered they rebased to a closer hex after the action. False alarm. Nothing to see here.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 848
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 10:35:12 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter


quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

3:1 in the snow = 1:1 in the sun. Advantage, defender. You are lucky the Russians didn't have their special units with the white uniforms. You basically rolled a 3, with a +1 for flipped, or a 4 on a 1:1 attack in WiF5. Not likely to lead to a front-shattering breakthrough, though you did clear the hex, which can be very useful early in a turn.


Would it not be 3:2 instead of a 1:1? Not that it makes alot of difference. Just wondering.


yes, that combat in #828 I was referring to, at +5 on 2d10, is the same as a 2.5 : 1 attack. two of the pluses came from the disorganized defender, which is replicated on the 1d10 by a +1 to the die roll. So it would have been a 1.5:1, or a 3:2 attack, with a +1. I can't remember if there is a 3:2 column on the 1d10 or the older 1d6 charts though.

there was no fractional in the original odds calculation, a straight 3:1. so it is a little tough to match this 2d10 combat to the 1d10, depending on what columns are available. but then a lot of 2d10 combats are like that, as you can frequently get a single plus, or a minus, one for this or that, and 1 pip in 2d10 combat represents 1/2 an odds level.

2d10 adds a lot of tactical flavors to the combat system. most of them are present in 1d10 with Blitz Bonus, but not all of them. it helps to get some practice with it, for sure. each +2 is an odds level.... then look back at the 1d10 charts for what might happen, though it is not an exact match with a bell curve of results, rather than linear.

I find there is much less luck involved. you are more likely to roll less than 5 several times sequentially on the 1d10 and ruin an offensive than you would be using the 2d10. what is more memorable - a "2" on the 2d10, or two "1" results on the 1d10, separated by an end-of-turn sequence perhaps? Everyone remembers rolling a "2" on the 2d10, but rolling "1" twice in a row is far more devastating to an attacker.

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 849
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 10:38:27 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		If the Russians have a single Panzer unit appear in front of them all by it's lonesome, from late 42 on, or perhaps starting in 1943, they should walk up with a mass of militia infantry and 2 of their own armored units - enough to then call the Assault table and kill the Panzer. Even at +2 on 2d10, or 1:1 on the 1d10. The look on the German player's face when they do this ... is the look of the Germans knowing the war is over.

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 850
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/9/2013 10:48:17 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		now, if you want to scooch STAVKA out of the room for a minute, here is what the Germans should do.

The Russians are strong, but deceptively so. They've been spending a lot on fun units - NAVs, MARines, PARAs, and they aren't even setting up for a smashing offensive to use them. Their line is strong, but brittle - no depth.

Meanwhile, the German pin-**** attacks inside the Russian Home Country are spinning their wheels. For every Russian unit the Germans kill, the Russians are gaining it back from the production bonuses of both German units being in their country, and for German attacks in their country. i.e., Plus the Build Points of one half of all their factories for every turn this is true.

It is the Germans who should retreat back to the Polish border, to lull the Soviet Worker back to sleep, and build up their own armored strength behind the lines. When Zhukov comes forward to investigate and finally launches his attack into Poland, the Germans should let it come. Hopefully onto some strong infantry units with good fighter protection, so the Russians will have to use up the Red Air Force to break the German infantry. Once they do, Manstein can unleash his master stroke, which, in the real war, came in the early spring of 1943 at Kharkov, as it has been described, as the 1 SS ARM appeared on the scene. Once the Russian spearheads are coming, possibly disorganized, and with their flanking infantry reduced and possibly disorganized, Manstein calls for his reserves hidden in the Offensive Chits the Germans still have.

First he smashes the Soviet Tank Armies with double attack factors. The Russian line is looking to have a little daylight in it. Immediately, Guderian, or von Rundstedt appear on the scene and throw another Offensive Chit. They tear open the Russian line and race for the Black Sea Coast, and pocket the Russians starting to nibble on Bessarabia. The Stukas swoop down and mop up the survivors...

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 851
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 1:01:44 AM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian
yes, that combat in #828 I was referring to, at +5 on 2d10, is the same as a 2.5 : 1 attack. two of the pluses came from the disorganized defender, which is replicated on the 1d10 by a +1 to the die roll. So it would have been a 1.5:1, or a 3:2 attack, with a +1. I can't remember if there is a 3:2 column on the 1d10 or the older 1d6 charts though.

there was no fractional in the original odds calculation, a straight 3:1. so it is a little tough to match this 2d10 combat to the 1d10, depending on what columns are available. but then a lot of 2d10 combats are like that, as you can frequently get a single plus, or a minus, one for this or that, and 1 pip in 2d10 combat represents 1/2 an odds level.

2d10 adds a lot of tactical flavors to the combat system. most of them are present in 1d10 with Blitz Bonus, but not all of them. it helps to get some practice with it, for sure. each +2 is an odds level.... then look back at the 1d10 charts for what might happen, though it is not an exact match with a bell curve of results, rather than linear.

I find there is much less luck involved. you are more likely to roll less than 5 several times sequentially on the 1d10 and ruin an offensive than you would be using the 2d10. what is more memorable - a "2" on the 2d10, or two "1" results on the 1d10, separated by an end-of-turn sequence perhaps? Everyone remembers rolling a "2" on the 2d10, but rolling "1" twice in a row is far more devastating to an attacker.


Thanks for the lesson. Must admit my preference for the 1D10. A day will come when the 2D10 will be used in face to face play and i must adapt. Maybe i should create a new game and do just that!

btw, The axis must never consider retreating from lands so recently liberated from the soviet yoke. Victory is gained by going forward. Strip Italy of troops for the East.

With the allies entangled with bureaucratic red tape they will never find the will to land on Fortress Europa.
Even if they do, It will just be a large self-sustaining POW camp. The Italians can be used as guards.
Oh! time for my meds.

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 852
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 6:06:12 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 11

The turn moves back to the Axis. What, if anything, can do they this impulse? Not much to be honest....

However, the Japanese decide to launch an attack against two armies west of Kweillin.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 853
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 6:09:33 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: 11

The Chinese choose the Assault table but at 4:1 +8 the Japanese are confident that all will be well...

... A 10 is rolled, disorganising all Japanese units, but destroying a Chinese in the process - not too shabby says Tojo.




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 854
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 6:14:11 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: End of Turn

...and the turn ends.

"Is Paris Burning?" Well could be - a Partisan arrives in the French capital, while two powerful Partisans turn up in the Soviet Union. These are placed north and south of the Pripet Marshes.

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 855
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 6:18:53 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: End of Turn

The Allied player picks one Ge/It and one Japan chit. The President passes the War Appropriations Bill - surely war is now close?




Attachment (1)

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 856
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 6:26:48 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline 		Turn: Nov/Dec 1942
Impulse: End of Turn

Same old irritating problem with Production. The Germans appear to have no oil .. again. The Germans have to oil resources idle and three that have turned to production

I try saving yet again - I just hope the next turn is not spoilt by having no oil ....

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 857
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 7:06:47 PM   
markb50k

 

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline 		I can usually get the oil stuff to work through tons of different clicks, but usually selecting the override option will do something. Lots of time set the oil to idle first using override -> recalculate -> then set it to save -> recalculate. Frustrating, yes, but usually i can make it do eventually what i need it to do..

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 858
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 7:11:11 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

I can usually get the oil stuff to work through tons of different clicks, but usually selecting the override option will do something. Lots of time set the oil to idle first using override -> recalculate -> then set it to save -> recalculate. Frustrating, yes, but usually i can make it do eventually what i need it to do..
warspite1

Yes, maybe having to check this every turn is the only option... If so that is not the worst outcome - at least its playable in that instance. Trade agreements are still screwed though. Everytime the Germans try and help the Italians out with one oil - the Germans lose all their resources to the Italians....

But it looks like its all in vain anyway and the game has come to an end - I cannot get the game to advance past the return to base phase thanks to the phantom carrier air units


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to markb50k)
Post #: 859
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 7:46:38 PM   
markb50k

 

Posts: 1224
Joined: 7/1/2004
From: Spring, TX
Status: offline 		Yeah I saw your other post. Would be a shame.

Although, the thought of restarting fresh and new is very tempting for those who like to improve upon mistakes we know we made. Either way, thank you for the awesome AAR up to this point. A pure joy to read.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 860
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 7:56:41 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: markb50k

Yeah I saw your other post. Would be a shame.

Although, the thought of restarting fresh and new is very tempting for those who like to improve upon mistakes we know we made. Either way, thank you for the awesome AAR up to this point. A pure joy to read.
warspite1

That's nice of you to say.

I saved the game about seven impulses back. I could try using that (and try to replicate moves as much as possible) but will only bother doing so if I can get rid of the problem aircraft, otherwise it will just crash again sooner or later anyway.

If not, then yes, I will start again.


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to markb50k)
Post #: 861
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 8:16:22 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		It is a damn shame.
Those phantom planes from beyond need to be exorcised. Bring in the Legendary Samurai Jubei Yagyu, from the movie Samurai Resurrection to deal with them.


Do you have any thoughts on options to use or not use in a future AAR? I'm happy to comment on future plans.

< Message edited by WarHunter -- 12/10/2013 9:17:32 PM >

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 862
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/10/2013 8:30:32 PM   
brian brian

 

Posts: 3191
Joined: 11/16/2005
Status: offline 		It seems as if a lot of the AARs are using the option to place two CV planes on a Carrier, as long as the sum of their classes fits? That seems like it would be an extra layer of potential problems in computer code. I have never had any desire to use that option.

Anyhow, I hope you can continue this one. You will never experience another game like this one, attempting to command military forces embarking into a new war of new technology, giving you some of the feel of how the WWI era leaders experienced these new realities.

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 863
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 5:39:49 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: brian brian

It seems as if a lot of the AARs are using the option to place two CV planes on a Carrier, as long as the sum of their classes fits? That seems like it would be an extra layer of potential problems in computer code. I have never had any desire to use that option.

Anyhow, I hope you can continue this one. You will never experience another game like this one, attempting to command military forces embarking into a new war of new technology, giving you some of the feel of how the WWI era leaders experienced these new realities.
warspite1

As far as I can see you cannot choose that is an option i.e. you choose carrier planes or not and cannot choose not to play with more than one plane. Please let me know if I have missed something.


< Message edited by warspite1 -- 12/11/2013 7:00:22 AM >

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to brian brian)
Post #: 864
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 5:45:12 AM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

It is a damn shame.
Those phantom planes from beyond need to be exorcised. Bring in the Legendary Samurai Jubei Yagyu, from the movie Samurai Resurrection to deal with them.


Do you have any thoughts on options to use or not use in a future AAR? I'm happy to comment on future plans.
warspite1

If I need to re-start I probably won't use limited overseas supply - that's just a pain for no apparent gain.

The big question for me is whether to use oil or not. I like the idea of its use, but with the production issues encountered I cannot be certain from turn to turn whether or not I have any! That is just not fun - and even less realistic than playing without oil in the first place..


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 865
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 2:41:57 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		Play with no oil and ditch the D20 chart. IMO, you will have much more fun no matter what angle you are looking at.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 866
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 2:55:34 PM   
Courtenay


Posts: 4003
Joined: 11/12/2008
Status: offline 		Since my opinion is that oil is essential and I greatly prefer the 2d10 table, obviously opinions differ here.

Although my Germans don't think much of the 2d10 table, simply because they seem to be rolling only one die on it.

_____________________________

I thought I knew how to play this game....

(in reply to Klydon)
Post #: 867
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 4:14:06 PM   
WarHunter


Posts: 1207
Joined: 3/21/2004
Status: offline 		Given the state of the game at the moment, shaving off a few options is not a bad idea for an AAR.

Agree with your sentiments about Limited overseas supply.

Oil rule, save it for later. Plus, Synthetic oil plants don't need to be used either.

1D10 vs 2D10, There are more than a few players that like it. Why not show it in use. Be sure to use Blitz bonus option with 1D10.

The following is a subjective list of options to be considered as not essential. IMHO

Cruisers in Flames, Supply Units, Construction Engineers, Extended Game length, Chinese Attack Weakness, Food in flames, Variable Reorganization Costs, In The Presence Of The Enemy, Carpet Bombing.

Truthfully, Warspite1, whatever you're happy with, is what counts.
Just don't use the oil rule and Limited overseas supply. 100% agreed

_____________________________


“We never felt like we were losing until we were actually dead.”
Marcus Luttrell

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 868
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 5:19:24 PM   
Klydon


Posts: 2251
Joined: 11/28/2010
Status: offline 		I disagree on the Chinese attack weakness for now with this new Chinese map. The Japanese have all sorts of issues in China now, even if they heavily reinforce from the start of the game. (Or so it seems to me anyway). The Japanese simply do not appear to have many options in terms of thinking about putting a push on the Russians early or making a push in the Chinese theater someplace, if only to straighten out their lines to a more unit conservative and better defensive position and that is even if the units from the home islands are sent in.

Food in Flames is a big help to the CW early, so I would not use that unless you are looking to specifically give the CW a boost.

Most of the rest of the list I agree with, although the big use of the engineers is to help crack the river lines.

(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 869
RE: Bob Flemin's MWIF AARse - 12/11/2013 5:58:52 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: WarHunter

Given the state of the game at the moment, shaving off a few options is not a bad idea for an AAR.

Agree with your sentiments about Limited overseas supply.

Oil rule, save it for later. Plus, Synthetic oil plants don't need to be used either.

1D10 vs 2D10, There are more than a few players that like it. Why not show it in use. Be sure to use Blitz bonus option with 1D10.

The following is a subjective list of options to be considered as not essential. IMHO

Cruisers in Flames, Supply Units, Construction Engineers, Extended Game length, Chinese Attack Weakness, Food in flames, Variable Reorganization Costs, In The Presence Of The Enemy, Carpet Bombing.

Truthfully, Warspite1, whatever you're happy with, is what counts.
Just don't use the oil rule and Limited overseas supply. 100% agreed
warspite1

WHAT!!!!!! WarHunter, I normally value your sage advice, but that comment is worrying - are you ill?? I am NOT playing without the likes of Penelope, Arethusa, Ajax or Coventry! No sir, never!!


_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to WarHunter)
Post #: 870
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