RE: BIN Patch Status ?

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RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 4:55:58 AM

dudalb_slith

Posts: 168
Joined: 6/20/2002
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"Anyway dump the AI."....
If you want SSG and Matrix to go bankrupt, that's the way to do it. There is little or no market for a Multiplayer only Wargame. Despite all the publcity about Multiplayer based games,the vast majority of people play versus the computer.
And with wargamers you are talking about a different market then the Role Players, so the "Everquest" model does not hold. I'm betting that David Heath and SSG will back up what I say: to put out a serious wargame with no AI is suicide from a business point of view.
If you like Multiplayer, fine. But don't go on some crusade against Computer AI.
And I hope that Matrix does find a way to make a manual available at a reasonble cost. to burn up about a quarter of a ink cartidge gets really old really fast. And then the whole issue of decent binding...soemthing most people cannot do at home.
I presume the Deal with Kinko's Matrix had did not work out?

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 31

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 5:07:26 AM

Black Cat

Posts: 615
Joined: 7/4/2002
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On the Manual; it took 1/2 each of a Color and B&W Ink Cartidge to print both the Manual and Tutorial. I buy a 1" lose leaf binder from Staples and have a three hole punch....Done.

I understand what your saying though and I think an in-game manual with search function like the HPS or Space Empires IV system is really the way to go.

(in reply to dudalb_slith)

Post #: 32

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 5:18:20 AM

PresbyterJohn

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/1/2004
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Sorry but people are selling board games which are more expensive than these PC games and no AI is included. Dump the AI for those games that are just glorified board games and compete with the board games at the multiplayer level at a significantly cheaper price. Don't compete against the market for AI only computer gamers.

< Message edited by Prester John -- 10/10/2004 3:20:13 AM >

(in reply to Black Cat)

Post #: 33

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 8:02:40 AM

cesteman

Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Black Cat,

I had thought about printing out the manual until I saw how many pages there are!!! 54 right? I don't know what kind of printer your using but my ink jet uses expensive ink!!! So what options are there? I want a printed manual but I don't want to run out and pay $30-40 for more ink cartridges

Food for thought.
Christian

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)

Post #: 34

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 8:06:04 AM

cesteman

Posts: 845
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From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline

I almost forgot to ask. It seems (myself included) getting off track here. This thread is about the status of a patch for BIN. So, can anyone tell us when we might expect a patch for this wonderful game?

Thanks.
Christian

(in reply to cesteman)

Post #: 35

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 8:12:39 AM

PresbyterJohn

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: cesteman

Black Cat,

I had thought about printing out the manual until I saw how many pages there are!!! 54 right? I don't know what kind of printer your using but my ink jet uses expensive ink!!! So what options are there? I want a printed manual but I don't want to run out and pay $30-40 for more ink cartridges Food for thought.
Christian

You aren't printing out in full A4 are you? I have never seen a game sold with an A4 size hardcopy manual. Everybody will print the manual in booklet size for 28 pages so that it is the same size as a real manual. And if you want to save paper print it back-to-back.

(in reply to cesteman)

Post #: 36

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 9:05:54 AM

cesteman

Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
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John,
A4??? I guess that's what it was... I am not a compter wizard

How do you set that up? Thanks.
Christian

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)

Post #: 37

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 9:19:33 AM

Hartford688

Posts: 261
Joined: 3/23/2004
From: Amsterdam, The Netherlands
Status: offline

In Acrobat:

file/print

In section at top of dialog box for Printers, click on Properties button

Go to Job Finishing tab

Select "Handout"

Then choose "number of prints" = 2 or 4 (I use 4)

Print is small but I find perfectly readable.

I also set up print quality to "normal" rather than high even at this small setting...still works fine and uses half the ink...try running a test page and see what works for you (and your eyes!

)

(in reply to cesteman)

Post #: 38

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 10:24:06 AM

cesteman

Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
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Are you using an ink jet? I have a cannon S600 which loves to suck it up. Does the smaller print include pictues or just the text? Thanks!
Christian

(in reply to Hartford688)

Post #: 39

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/10/2004 10:26:26 AM

cesteman

Posts: 845
Joined: 2/15/2004
From: San Luis Obispo, CA
Status: offline

Hartford,
Just noticed your from Amsterdam! I loved that city when I visited two years ago. Very unique! Later.
Christian

(in reply to cesteman)

Post #: 40

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/19/2004 4:38:19 PM

Capitaine

Posts: 1043
Joined: 1/15/2002
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BTTT to raise the issue of THE PATCH again. It's getting tiresome listening to one tune in the game, and I don't feel like turning off the music. Cannot someone issue a patch to fix the issues known so far? It won't be a mortal sin if yet another is issued later; in fact it would show greater dedication...

_____________________________

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Post #: 41

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/19/2004 5:40:33 PM

Toby42

Posts: 1626
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: Central Florida
Status: offline

I don't play music or use sound effects, so it's a non-issue with me.

_____________________________

Tony

(in reply to Capitaine)

Post #: 42

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/19/2004 6:41:17 PM

Kung Karl

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Capitaine

BTTT to raise the issue of THE PATCH again. It's getting tiresome listening to one tune in the game, and I don't feel like turning off the music. Cannot someone issue a patch to fix the issues known so far? It won't be a mortal sin if yet another is issued later; in fact it would show greater dedication...

I agree! Why can't they just release a sound fix?

(in reply to Capitaine)

Post #: 43

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/19/2004 7:11:18 PM

TheHellPatrol

Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
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.Yea, i pretty much stopped playing it as much even though the computer- is no slouch. For the price, which even some game sites mentioned was a little high, you would think something as simple as that would be fixed/working by now. Sure, "it's only music" and with Witp it was "only sound effects" but we have come to expect some of the basics at least these days. BiN is a great progression but it needs some meat and potatoes in the soup

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

(in reply to Kung Karl)

Post #: 44

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/28/2004 6:17:54 AM

ravinhood

Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prester John

Sorry but people are selling board games which are more expensive than these PC games and no AI is included. Dump the AI for those games that are just glorified board games and compete with the board games at the multiplayer level at a significantly cheaper price. Don't compete against the market for AI only computer gamers.

Sorry but board wargaming is and has been on the "decline" for many years now. It's hardly the gaming platform it used to be. And an AI in ALL games is very important to the MAJORITY of computer gamers out there. As much as you might like to think MP is the bit hit, it hardly is. Games like EQ MMORPGs hardly count in the "wargaming" genre.

Better read up on your history of wargaming before making comments like MP rules and computer AI's need to be chunked.

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wargaming/history.aspx

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)

Post #: 45

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/28/2004 2:41:59 PM

PresbyterJohn

Posts: 136
Joined: 5/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Sorry but board wargaming is and has been on the "decline" for many years now. It's hardly the gaming platform it used to be. And an AI in ALL games is very important to the MAJORITY of computer gamers out there. As much as you might like to think MP is the bit hit, it hardly is. Games like EQ MMORPGs hardly count in the "wargaming" genre.

Better read up on your history of wargaming before making comments like MP rules and computer AI's need to be chunked.

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com/wargaming/history.aspx

Sorry but this has got nothing to do with EQ (I'm guessing that's EverQuest), but everything to do with boardgames like those being sold by MultiMan and Avalanche as well as Shrapnels Lock 'n Load. Those games don't come with AI. But some of them do come with virtual Java interfaces for internet play and this is making them popular too. Board gaming may have had a decline but the virtual interfaces will help keep them in print, along with people looking for the pleasure of interacting with others.
And as for the "majority" of computer gamers you are refering to, they are playing RTS and FPS games, often on online servers. I don't think your history is telling you this. Instead you should look up what the real players are doing. But if you think that AI gaming is better than playing against other players go right ahead, because it's your fifty dollars. Anyway player to player wargaming is alive, and doesn't need an AI to get published (or reprinted even, if MMP gets Panzer Blitz out).

(in reply to ravinhood)

Post #: 46

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/28/2004 6:23:06 PM

Warpstorm

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Joined: 10/6/2003
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Prester John

And as for the "majority" of computer gamers you are refering to, they are playing RTS and FPS games, often on online servers. I don't think your history is telling you this. Instead you should look up what the real players are doing. But if you think that AI gaming is better than playing against other players go right ahead, because it's your fifty dollars. Anyway player to player wargaming is alive, and doesn't need an AI to get published (or reprinted even, if MMP gets Panzer Blitz out).

Sorry, Prester John, the vast majority of computer game players are still playing against AI rather than other players even when the game supports it. A credible AI is still needed for the near future if you want your game to be profitable. The proportion is changing, but it'll probably be a few years before it gets to the 50-50 mark.

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)

Post #: 47

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/29/2004 9:22:04 AM

PresbyterJohn

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Joined: 5/1/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Warpstorm

Sorry, Prester John, the vast majority of computer game players are still playing against AI rather than other players even when the game supports it. A credible AI is still needed for the near future if you want your game to be profitable. The proportion is changing, but it'll probably be a few years before it gets to the 50-50 mark.

I have a feeling that a game like Doom 3 is doing quite well without having to have a serious AI. And the AI seen in the RTS games is much worse than the sort that is seen in hex based computer wargames but they do much better in sales and in multiplayer popularity too for that matter. Why so if AI is so important. Quite simply it's not so. The enemy follows scripted moves and works inside tight limitations for those games. So the vast majority of computer game players are not playing against what one would call a "credible AI". At this time all the AI in the popular games does is provide a practice dummy.

< Message edited by Prester John -- 10/29/2004 7:22:54 AM >

(in reply to Warpstorm)

Post #: 48

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/29/2004 11:44:22 PM

Warpstorm

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Joined: 10/6/2003
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But imagine Doom3's sales if you said that there would be no AI at all...

A more relevant example is Civ3 which was a million plus seller and you might find a few hundred online games if you search hard.

In the FPS games, my personal favorite is playing UT:2004 against the AI. Not becuase it's easier (far from it), but rather because they are less annoying than most real people who play FPS games online. Now that I think about it this applies to most games. Maybe I just don't like people.

< Message edited by Warpstorm -- 10/29/2004 4:47:10 PM >

(in reply to PresbyterJohn)

Post #: 49

RE: BIN Patch Status ? - 10/31/2004 10:46:17 AM

PresbyterJohn

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How could you have a FPS campaign without the scripting that it uses? I don't see the point in offering a campaign game like that without the scripted opponent.

Hex based board games are another thing though. They are not able to be played against a scripted opponent. Now I can buy a board game that comes with a VASSAL interface and no AI. Why can't I just buy a computer game that does the same thing without the boards and counters for half the price?

(in reply to Warpstorm)

Post #: 50