RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (Full Version)

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von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 4:44:11 PM)

Not sure if Van or van is correct, both are in common use in documents/books. I don't know if the Dutch have a convention for it.

For German names von is correct but you can still find Von in common use amongst non German speakers.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 4:55:38 PM)

roger, but it is odd seeing the same writer using it both ways ?

by the by, did you see the Vol 9 by Chorley ?

just showed up on my doorstep :)

outstanding, but going to be HARD to work with



von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 5:35:16 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

by the by, did you see the Vol 9 by Chorley ?

just showed up on my doorstep :)

outstanding, but going to be HARD to work with



Yes but I'm going to give it a miss as I have Vols 1-8 and correct me if I'm wrong but Vol 9 is a roll of honour so all info will be contained in the earlier volumes.

Will try and post some of 6 Group tonight.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 6:40:06 PM)

yea, it is the rolls of honor, 57000 some names, but they are full names, but do not have the plane type or crew postion





von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 6:49:25 PM)

Full names would be useful but as you say without crew position etc will be hard to make easy use of.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 7:45:04 PM)

got one, I think

Fo Harry John Randall 49 Squadron, KIA 8-18-43 (119813)

yeap, that is him, CCGC has him also


SL Richard Nevil Todd-White, HCU, KIA 8-18-43 (37368)

odd

I get Walter Ralph Haskell, 57 Squadron, KIA 8-17-43 (44563)

wonder if he was lost early in the raid and the others later on ? or if there was a another raid on the 18th



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 8:19:11 PM)

Okay Shaggy, got them in, plus some 50 2nd Tac guys





von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 9:15:01 PM)

There was a small BC raid on Torino 16-17Aug43 but Haskell was MIA on the Peenemuende raid. T/O time for his a/c is given as 21:44 - nothing further heard.

Couple of additions/corrections for 75 Sqn

P/O Logan, C. > P/O Logan, Clifford
Sgt Joll, J. > S/L Joll, Jack; Exp ~80



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/15/2008 9:22:42 PM)

roger, that is what I was thinking

Corrected, won't be in the posted OOB, but corrected in mine





von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/16/2008 12:00:27 AM)

6 Group

419 Sqn RCAF

Sgt Batterson, J.M. John
Sgt Cameron, W.D.L. William
F/S Cooke, D.T.
F/L Corcoarn, B.J.
Sgt Coutlee, C.M.
F/S Douhassoff, T.
F/O Heard, S.M.
F/O Hamilton, W.H. William
F/O Hewitt, H.A.
F/L Keddie, W.N.
Sgt Metherall, R.K.
Sgt McIntosh, J.
W/O Morrision, J.R.
F/S Pekin, S. Stanley
F/L Quaile, A.N.
F/S Stewart, R. Robert
F/O Westland, J.A.

426 Sqn RCAF

W/C Crooks, L. Leslie
F/L Epps, R.F.
Lt Gaunt, S.
Sgt Griffiths, C.A. Charles
F/L Shaw, W.L. Wilfred
F/L Shuttleworth, D.D. Douglas
Sgt Summers, M.B. Malcolm
S/L Swetman, W.H.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/16/2008 8:45:19 PM)

added



von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/16/2008 10:58:18 PM)

6 Group (cont.)

427 Sqn RCAF

F/O Arnot, B.
F/O Baum, G.R. I got a William Baum ? KIA 8-24-43 W.G.R
Sgt Brady, F.J.D. Francis
F/S Champion, W.
F/L Crew, B.G.
Sgt Fletcher, N.E. Neville
F/S Milton, J.R.G.
F/L Morton, J.A.
Sgt Olsvik, D.O. David
Sgt Schmitt, W.H.
Capt Taylor, C.A.
Sgt Wolton, G.

428 Sqn RCAF

F/S Armour, W.J. William
Sgt Blackmore, W.W. Winston
Sgt Borrowes, R.L.
F/O Drimmie, G.R.
F/L Fanson, G.W. Gordon
Sgt Fry, K.O.
P/O Hadden, W.A. William
Sgt Harkins, J.
W/O Harrison, A.
F/O Jones, K.W. Kenneth
F/S Reade, H.A.
F/L Retlander, A.V.
Sgt Sheridan, J. John
P/O Williamson, L.F.

434 Sqn RCAF

Sgt Austin, ???
Lt Clary, ???
F/O Colquhoun, ??? Ian L.
Sgt Harrison, ??? Richard S.
Sgt Johnston, ??? I have a Garth B. Johnson ???? KIA late 44
F/O Lord, ??? Frederick C.
F/S Piper, ??? Frederick J.
Sgt Snelgrove, ???
F/L Thompson, ??? William M.



von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/16/2008 11:44:30 PM)

8 Group

suggest exp in the range 75-85 for most pilots as in theory all should have completed one tour already (or at the very least be well through their first tour).

7 Sqn

S/L Anakstein, C.
F/L Baker, S.
F/O Campling, R.D.
F/L Foster, B.H.D.
F/L French, R.O.
F/L Harcourt, V.
P/O Harding, A.C.
S/L Lofthouse, C.J.
F/O McIntyre, K.
F/S Negus, C.A.
F/S Petrie, J.R.
F/O Philipson-Stowe
W/C Rampling, K.
F/S Sutherst, J. (Southirst?)
F/O Wells, O.J.
P/O Wilby, P.
F/L Zee, J.A.

35 Sqn

P/O Appleby, R.R.G.
S/L Cranswick, A.P.
F/L Davidson, A.J.F.
S/L Deacon, E.W.
F/S Hardy, A.V.
F/O Jagger, J.J.
P/O Lahey, L.E.N.
F/S Matiche, N.J.
F/S Raggett, P.R.
F/S Skerrett, T.R.

83 Sqn

P/O Allcroft, F.C.
F/O Chick, M.R.
W/O Finding, J.
S/L Hildyard, N.F.
P/O King, R.
S/L Manton, R.J.
F/L Mason, ???
P/O Reid, J.A.
G/C Searby, John H. (Master Bomber); Exp ~95
S/L Sell, G.D.
P/O Shipway, A.C.
F/L Slade, I.C.B.
S/L Smith, A.B.
F/O Thompson, W.R.
F/S Turp, K.C.

97 Sqn

F/O Berridge, B.H.
P/O Brown, K.
F/L Clayton, R.F.
F/L Eaton-Clarke, ???
P/O Farlie, K.
F/O Fletcher, R.A.
S/L Garlick, J.M.
P/O Montgomery, D.A.
P/O Munro, J.F.
F/S Pond, H.A.
F/O Riches, W.
F/L Robertson, C.B.
S/L Rodley, E.E.
S/L Sauvage, J.H.
Sgt Saxton, J.H.
F/S Stevenson, L.
F/O de Wesselow, G.

156 Sqn

F/L Anset, D.C.
P/O Coldham, P.A.
F/L Cook, A.S.
F/L Fawcett, R.E.
F/S Fry, F.J.
F/O Lutz, A.M.
F/L Mandeno, G.L.
S/L Manfield, N.R.
F/L McGrath, A.L.
P/O Overton, L.W.
F/O Prichard, J.E.
W/O Rose, ???
F/S Slade, H.F.
P/O Sloper, J.L.
F/S Stephens, T.G.
P/O Stewart, R.G.F.
F/S Stimpson, ???
F/L Thompson, J.F.
F/L Vincent, P.R.
W/C White, John H. (2nd Deputy Master Bomber)
F/O Wright, J.L.
S/L Young, R.E.

405 Sqn RCAF

Sgt Branton, A.C.
P/O Cowan, H,
W/C Fauquier, John E. (1st Deputy Master Bomber)
Sgt Larson, R.H.
F/O McIntyre, H.S. Harry
P/O McMenemy, G.S.
P/O McSorley, B.F.
Sgt Nielson, C.
F/O Sattler, M.
P/O Weber, J.A.
F/O Weiser, W.
P/O Wood, K.R.

139 Sqn (diversionary raid to Berlin)

F/L College, M.W.
F/O Cooke, A.S.
F/L Crampton, R.A.V.
P/O Guest, C.H.
W/O Miles, V.J.C.
Sgt Prince, H.M.
G/C Slee, L.C.
F/O Swan, H.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/17/2008 6:04:51 PM)

Shaggy

you got anything on 247 ?

I got "Chuck" Cosar
"Oscar" Cosar

but then I find a kill claim for a Fo. C.S. Cossar from 247 around the same time

these could be another brother pair (I have found more then a few of them in the RAF and US) in the same squadron

do you have anything for them ? time should be late 43, early 44



von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/17/2008 7:24:48 PM)

Not got anything on any Cosar or Cossar

Two brothers for you, I've only just entered their details. Interestingly both were definitely nicknamed "Duke"

As of 17Aug43

F/O Warren, Douglas; 165 Sqn; 0.33 Kills; Exp 75
F/O Warren, Bruce; 165 Sqn; 2.33 Kills; Exp 80



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/17/2008 8:21:28 PM)

already had them, but will adjust there exp level





von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/18/2008 1:05:04 AM)

F/O Charles Stewart Cossar 247 Sqn received DFC 26Sep44. However don't know if he was serving with 247 Sqn as of 17Aug43
 
 



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/18/2008 5:51:02 PM)

Thank you, he was with them in 43 I know, not sure when he joined





Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/18/2008 7:24:51 PM)

Shaggy do you have the Shores follow up book to Aces High ?

mine just got here

very good



von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/18/2008 9:07:16 PM)

Do you mean Aces High Vol II?



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/18/2008 9:44:40 PM)

naw, it got a long title

those other eagles (is the short verison)





von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/18/2008 11:37:27 PM)

Those Other Eagles - Yes. Again Shores has done a great job, a must for anyone researching pilots careers. Especially the lesser known ones.

I've been going through these books systematically looking for pilots relevant to BTR so I can work out relative exp (that list of 1600+ pilots I sent you a couple of years back contained many taken from these books) but it takes time. I started on Aces High about 8 years ago and between Aces High I/II & Those Other Eagles I've about 110 bios that I'm interested in left to enter in my database).

I can't help but think we're duplicating effort here. As you know pilots careers is what I'm really interested in and am happy to research them, so it would free you up to concentrate in other areas.



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/19/2008 10:34:12 AM)

Shaggy, just in case, the names I know, I am editing and filling it in as you post them





von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/19/2008 1:01:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hard Sarge

Shaggy, just in case, the names I know, I am editing and filling it in as you post them



Hi Sarge,

I realise you are entering them as I post them and you will probably find pilots I'll miss and vice versa, but I thought if I concentrate on researching pilots careers it would free you up to concentrate on other higher priority stuff (testing, project management etc) and save you a fortune in the process.




von Shagmeister -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/28/2008 5:05:40 PM)

Officers with 5.(F)/122 as of 01Aug40

Pilots (definite)

Hptm Böhm, Herbert (St.Kap.); Exp 80-90
Lt Hellermann, Meinulf; Exp 65-75
Lt Jerz, Hans; Exp 60-70
Lt Quel, Robert; Exp 65-75

Either pilots or observers

Oblt? Guse, Max; Exp 75-85
Lt Hurck, Karl; Exp 65-75
Lt Krause, Bernhard; Exp 75-85
Oblt Vleuten, Hanns van; Exp 75-85
Lt Vukitz, Manfred; Exp 65-75



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/28/2008 5:10:20 PM)

Kewl

should have a update for you guys later today, trying to finish my stuff up before I upload it





Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/28/2008 6:23:38 PM)

okay, I have added the first set to 1/5 and the 2nd set to 2/5 ?





Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (4/28/2008 6:44:30 PM)

Shaggy

brothers in 175

is it

Greville-Morgan
or
Greville-Moran





Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (5/10/2008 1:54:56 PM)


156 Sqn

F/L Anset, D.C. Douglas C DFC
P/O Coldham, P.A. Peter A. DFC/Bar
F/L Cook, A.S. Arthur S. DFC
F/L Fawcett, R.E. Rowland E. DFC
F/S Fry, F.J. Francis J.
F/O Lutz, A.M. Alan M. DFC
F/L Mandeno, G.L. Graham L. DFC/Bar, DSO
S/L Manfield, N.R. Nelson R. DFC. MID
F/L McGrath, A.L. Athol L. DFC
P/O Overton, L.W. Leonard W. DFC/Bar
F/O Prichard, J.E. John C.
W/O Rose, ??? Walter H. DFC
F/S Slade, H.F. Herbert F. DSO, DFC BS
P/O Sloper, J.L. John L. DFC/Bar
F/S Stephens, T.G. Trevor G. DFM
P/O Stewart, R.G.F. Ronald G.F. DFC
F/S Stimpson, ??? Maurice C. DFC
F/L Thompson, J.F. John F. DFC
F/L Vincent, P.R. Peter R. DFC
W/C White, John H. (2nd Deputy Master Bomber)John H. DFC
F/O Wright, J.L. John L. DFC, DSO
S/L Young, R.E. Ralph E. DFC, DSO



Hard Sarge -> RE: Real Life Pilots For Inclusion (5/10/2008 2:42:10 PM)

Also looks like

George Denwood DFC

SL George F. Grant DFC, DSO

FO William T. Timperley DFC

were also part of the Squadron, but did not fly on the raid





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