RE: Is This Game Playable Yet?

RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815

Message

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 3:46:07 PM)
Ray: Yes, 1 month of game time in a week of real time is pretty good movement. During peace times, the game can really fly by (just like in ftf) if everyone is paying attention (though this rarely happens). tonedog: 24 hour turnaround means that each player has 24 hours to do his/her turn. Since turns are not simul. you can't have a 24 hour turnaround for all players. If you wanted to achieve this, for 7 players, you would have to have a ~3.5 hour turnaround per player and you can see how this is simply not feasible given the different geographic locations of many players. I must say that some of my PBEM games are rather exciting while others are just plain dull. It really depends on the dedication of the group and how often people can do their turns. Some people take the whole 24 or (god forbid) 48 hours to do their turn, which I simply don't understand. It takes me roughly 5-10 minutes to do my turn (sometimes a little more, sometimes less if I have nothing to do), so it's not like it's time consuming. IMO, it's important to use a file system that lets you broadcast messages to the group announces that you have done your turn and uploaded your file; otherwise, people just don't check or forget and the game drags on. Thresh: I disagree regarding simul Dip phases since I think all the things you mentioned can be handled through email diplomacy (which doesn't need a game slowing time frame since it can be done simul with all the other parts of the game, something NOT done in ftf that I like). If you don't want to call and ally or he doesn't want you to then you shouldn't have that boxed checked. There is nothing "random" about DoWs, they happen because someone made them happen, how is this an issue? As for the AI: I have recently downloaded the newest patch and must say that the AI is getting smarter, it seems. Turkey for some reason is not and i don't know why, but most of the other countries are doing diplomacy a little better (except alliances). For example, as Ru I DOWd Pr in March 1805 and it immediately cond. surrendered to me (minimizing my PP gain and maximizing his PP loss) and I thought, wow, what a smart decision (since I had mass troops on his borders and he was nowhere to be found).

cato13 -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 5:10:04 PM)
so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that. the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter. are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway.

Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 7:24:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tonedog so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that. the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter. are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway. I don't any PBEM game would be a turn a day??? I don't think working folk could keep that pace (At least I haven't seen that). You should see a much quicker pace than Cyberboard since I've taken any rules debates out of the game. This is usually what would break up a game again in my experiences.

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 8:20:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tonedog so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that. the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter. are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway. Every now and again the CleverDevils2 game moves this (or close to it) fast, but combat really slows things down. You can check out the games from the AAR (After Action Reports) forum, then click on the CleverDevils2 thread.

cato13 -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 11:07:49 PM)
am i right in sayin that u dont think 1 turn a day is possible in any pbem game? as i said, im currently playin a pbem game of witp which is a very complex game and me and my opponent are managin 1 and sometime 2 turns a day so its defo possible. why wouldnt it be if a turn take 15 to 20 mins or maybe im pickin u up wrong. the problem with eia is that if u have multiple players then thats when the game grinds to snails pace. the obvious solution is tcp/ip play, im sure there are a fair number of people who would dedicate 3 or 4 hours once a week to play this way but i guess that irrelavant as from what ive read here its never gonna happen.

Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 11:09:34 PM)
I should clarify bit ... No, I don't think that a 7 player PBEM game could keep that pace. 2 players? Yes, I believe it could.

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 11:12:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: tonedog am i right in sayin that u dont think 1 turn a day is possible in any pbem game? as i said, im currently playin a pbem game of witp which is a very complex game and me and my opponent are managin 1 and sometime 2 turns a day so its defo possible. why wouldnt it be if a turn take 15 to 20 mins or maybe im pickin u up wrong. the problem with eia is that if u have multiple players then thats when the game grinds to snails pace. the obvious solution is tcp/ip play, im sure there are a fair number of people who would dedicate 3 or 4 hours once a week to play this way but i guess that irrelavant as from what ive read here its never gonna happen. 1. Like I said, in order for a turn to happen, every player has to get their turn in with a maximum time of 3.5 hours each, so, yes it's possible (since some players will turn theirs in much faster) and I have played a game where this has happened. Actually during peace, I believe there was a weekend where we went through a month of game time in 1.5 days, that's pretty good. The bottom line is that PBEM play was not meant to be fast, this game was not meant to be fast and therefore, it's not going to be fast. 2. None of the Matrix people have ever said TCP/IP was "never gonna happen", in fact, they are open to the idea, EVENTUALLY. I DID SAY in another thread that tcp/ip EiA was never going to happen (and I still highly doubt it), since this game is NOT EiA and is actually EiH. I just didn't want to put words into Matrix's mouth, I know how they hate that.

Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/13/2008 11:16:04 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan 2. None of the Matrix people have ever said TCP/IP was "never gonna happen", in fact, they are open to the idea, EVENTUALLY. I DID SAY in another thread that tcp/ip EiA was never going to happen (and I still highly doubt it), since this game is NOT EiA and is actually EiH. I just didn't want to put words into Matrix's mouth, I know how they hate that. LOL! Never say never Neverman!

testcase4321 -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/14/2008 1:30:26 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan quote: ORIGINAL: tonedog so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that. the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter. are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway. Every now and again the CleverDevils2 game moves this (or close to it) fast, but combat really slows things down. You can check out the games from the AAR (After Action Reports) forum, then click on the CleverDevils2 thread. I'm guessing that the CleverDevils2 team is relatively normal in terms of how long it takes to play the PBEM version. If you look at their reports, it seems that 7 months of real time have equated to 2 years of game time. Soooo, to complete a game at this rate we'd be looking at 35 months or approximately 3 years. . . .

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/14/2008 2:30:24 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: testcase4321 quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan quote: ORIGINAL: tonedog so if there are 7 players in a game and each player takes 24 hours at least, then the game will progress at a rate of ONE turn a week! think id rather watch grass growin to be honest, it might be a little quicker. respect to u guys for putin up with that. the only way i could imagine playin the game by pbem would be in a 1 vs 1 match, at least then the game would be averagin 1 turn a day at least. but with what ive read about the AI then i guess that would be a non starter. are there any pbem games goin on where the game moves along at lets say one game turn a day, and i dont mean individuall turns, i mean overall game turns. i doubt it but i though id ask anyway. Every now and again the CleverDevils2 game moves this (or close to it) fast, but combat really slows things down. You can check out the games from the AAR (After Action Reports) forum, then click on the CleverDevils2 thread. I'm guessing that the CleverDevils2 team is relatively normal in terms of how long it takes to play the PBEM version. If you look at their reports, it seems that 7 months of real time have equated to 2 years of game time. Soooo, to complete a game at this rate we'd be looking at 35 months or approximately 3 years. . . . Keep in mind that the former Russian player dropped out of the game, so there was a slight lapse in time before I can in as a substitute. :) All said and done tough, that's to "complete" a game. While I have completed some EiA FTF games, the vast majority of them have been done before 1810 in one way or another. Despite EiA or EiANW, that's just the nature of the beast.

Jimmer -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/14/2008 6:17:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan Keep in mind that the former Russian player dropped out of the game, so there was a slight lapse in time before I can in as a substitute. :) All said and done tough, that's to "complete" a game. While I have completed some EiA FTF games, the vast majority of them have been done before 1810 in one way or another. Despite EiA or EiANW, that's just the nature of the beast. Also, there were several occasions early on (February through May) when 1-3 week delays occurred due to game bugs. We're not currently seeing that kind of delays any more. The bugs are more of the nature "I lost another PP to a bug..." type things, rather than game-stopper bugs. I think the last game stopper was in May, but my memory might be fuzzy. The other thing that I've learned from the CleverDevils2 game is that a single person going on vacation or a trip for a few days can virtually stop the game. Sometimes, it can be ridden through for a few phases, if that person is in general peace with the world. But, usually, there's a game delay because of it. Or, even, being "out of circulation" (not having access to a computer or something).

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/14/2008 6:25:23 PM)
I agree with Jimmer. People going on vacation can halt a game dead in it's tracked and this obviuosly isn't tied to EiANW, this can happen in ftf, PBEM, whatever in any game. This is just part of life and being an adult. Yeah, when I was in HS and we played we could play ALL DAY on Saturdays and Sundays and really crank through some games, but I'm grown up with a wife and job and other things (house, etc) and traveling (which I have done in some current games). So, while I think that CleverDevils2 is a realistic view of what can be accomplished I also think that there will be quicker games and slower games, just depends on the time frame and group of people. A lot of people take trips in the summer time so play may go slower then. Things like that. Also, it seems that a lot of people who play this game travel for their work, so that's something else to think about. Maybe things will get better if the pool of players increases, which I seriously hope it does and I think that if Matrix can put together "classic" (as if there is any other kind) EiA then that will happen.

gwheelock -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/14/2008 7:18:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NeverMan I agree with Jimmer. People going on vacation can halt a game dead in it's tracked and this obviuosly isn't tied to EiANW, this can happen in ftf, PBEM, whatever in any game. This is just part of life and being an adult. Yeah, when I was in HS and we played we could play ALL DAY on Saturdays and Sundays and really crank through some games, but I'm grown up with a wife and job and other things (house, etc) and traveling (which I have done in some current games). So, while I think that CleverDevils2 is a realistic view of what can be accomplished I also think that there will be quicker games and slower games, just depends on the time frame and group of people. A lot of people take trips in the summer time so play may go slower then. Things like that. Also, it seems that a lot of people who play this game travel for their work, so that's something else to think about. Maybe things will get better if the pool of players increases, which I seriously hope it does and I think that if Matrix can put together "classic" (as if there is any other kind) EiA then that will happen. One of the things that can mitigate this is to allow the host to skip some of your turns/phases if you are out of touch - fairly trivial in peacetime; much more difficult when at war (tho if the AI gets good enough[sm=00000436.gif]) I would recommend (as a general rule) that if you are one of these people who travel frequently - please DO NOT bid for France (France being gone a lot would probably kill a game).

Gravit -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/21/2008 3:45:29 AM)
Simple answer to the original question: NO [:(] Expanded answer to the original question: NO, buy something else [X(] Really expanded answer to the original question: No buy anything else [:@] While the intentions of the developer seem to be good, this is a stinker of a game and never should have been sold by Matrix as a professional product. It is a blight upon their record achievement of otherwise awesome games.

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/21/2008 4:49:49 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gravit Simple answer to the original question: NO [:(] Expanded answer to the original question: NO, buy something else [X(] Really expanded answer to the original question: No buy anything else [:@] While the intentions of the developer seem to be good, this is a stinker of a game and never should have been sold by Matrix as a professional product. It is a blight upon their record achievement of otherwise awesome games. Overreact much? Gheesh, I thought I was a tough crowd. It's really not THIS bad, not EVEN close. The game is getting to be more playable with every release and when it gets there (may take 6 mos to a year, I think) this will possibly be Matrix's best game (although I do think CWiF is going to be BAD ARSE).

gwheelock -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/21/2008 2:13:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gravit Simple answer to the original question: NO [:(] Expanded answer to the original question: NO, buy something else [X(] Really expanded answer to the original question: No buy anything else [:@] While the intentions of the developer seem to be good, this is a stinker of a game and never should have been sold by Matrix as a professional product. It is a blight upon their record achievement of otherwise awesome games. The game is TOTALLY PLAYABLE NOW. There are some minor end case bugs that are being worked on and the AI is not especially challenging to an experienced player. (That is why you play against HUMAN opponents [:-] )

Jimmer -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/21/2008 5:24:04 PM)
The AI improved from 1.3.13 to 1.3.14. It correctly blockades all of the French ships with forces capable of at least putting up a fight. In all cases, the odds are in favor of the Brits blockading. They still have a problem with too many blockading one port and only "just enough" blockading another port. But, I had to put in some serious thinking in order to get the ships out of port, and even then, I wasn't able to do it without the Portuguese fleets' help. They also attacked my small corps that were covering the ports. Fortunately for me, they weren't small after all; I wasn't bluffing. So, I managed to kill off the British guard corps. GB still has too many garrisoned infantry at the beginning, and still reacts "not so well" to losing a blockade run. But, over all, it's much better. Also, the minors (Prussia, specifically) are attacking with real armies, instead of lone corps. I was still able to pick off a few cripples, but hey, I'm France (in that game). And, Russia actually ATTACKS up in Finland, rather than just passively trying to break in until his force forages away. I was still able to coax him into leaving me with Sweden by lapse of war, but it took some thinking to make it happen (I wound up attacking St. Petersburg. He ran back to catch me, but forgot he was going to get Finland that turn. He needed to run A corps west to nail down Sweden. Also, the Russians actually blockaded the Swedes into Stockholm, instead of letting me do the same to St. Pete. I'm not sure if the other major powers have made similar improvements yet. But, I'm hopeful. It seems I'm going to have to take the first year hammering small targets rather than outright winning in 3 months, as it used to be. Good job, Marshall!

delatbabel -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/22/2008 3:51:19 AM)
Most of the AI fixes in 1.03.13/14 were aimed at getting the AI to stop doing stupid things. There are a lot of AI fixes in 1.04 in progress which aim to get the AI to do more intelligent things. So far I've had Napoleon crush my Prussian armies once or twice with his big stack (not perfectly but better than before), while Britain appears to bounce up and down the atlantic coast wiping out the French navy. So it's getting better all of the time although I wouldn't expect an AI player to seriously beat a bunch of human players for some time yet, if at all.

DCWhitworth -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/22/2008 1:37:40 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Gravit Simple answer to the original question: NO [:(] Expanded answer to the original question: NO, buy something else [X(] Really expanded answer to the original question: No buy anything else [:@] While the intentions of the developer seem to be good, this is a stinker of a game and never should have been sold by Matrix as a professional product. It is a blight upon their record achievement of otherwise awesome games. It's a good thing you've backed up your harsh words with facts or we might just think you were overreacting [8\|] Also I think it's easier on people who haven't played the board game before, rather than vice versa, since there are some rules variantions that will trip up experienced players who think they know the rules.

bresh -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/22/2008 6:42:11 PM)
I can only submit my personal subjective view. It is somewhat playable, but in my view bugs still rule alot of the outcome, more than the game should allow. So one question is, how many dispointments can you live with. And how does your gamegroup handle those bugs, some might try fix them in other ways, other prefer you live through your dissapointments.. Regards Bresh

LarryP -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/22/2008 6:46:43 PM)
I'm still watching this thread daily. [X(] I'm also still holding off buying this game as it's $70 with physical and manual. Wish there were a demo available. That would answer my questions best. [:(]

borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 1:14:23 AM)
Below is an email a player that is in 3 of my games sent today. I understand his fustration, and hold no gruge against him for leaving. I think he says what many of us are feeling very well. To Marshall and the other powers that be at Matrix. Thank you for your attempts to bring this game into the PBEM world. However, before you put any efforts into improved AI or other features, please, I beg you, get this version working. with my complements. Gentlemen, I have come to the conclusion that this game is total ****e, and is IMHO, unplayable (PBEM) in its current state...I have thouroughly enjoyed the fellow players in this game and hope that someday, we can meet again on the virtual world of napoleanic warfare. However, I can't, in good conscience continue this...please accept my resignation in this game. I'm simply not willing to continue to be a beta tester for this game. Please note that it has nothing to do with the players, but the game itself. Good gaming and peace to all,

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 2:34:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: borner Below is an email a player that is in 3 of my games sent today. I understand his fustration, and hold no gruge against him for leaving. I think he says what many of us are feeling very well. To Marshall and the other powers that be at Matrix. Thank you for your attempts to bring this game into the PBEM world. However, before you put any efforts into improved AI or other features, please, I beg you, get this version working. with my complements. Gentlemen, I have come to the conclusion that this game is total ****e, and is IMHO, unplayable (PBEM) in its current state...I have thouroughly enjoyed the fellow players in this game and hope that someday, we can meet again on the virtual world of napoleanic warfare. However, I can't, in good conscience continue this...please accept my resignation in this game. I'm simply not willing to continue to be a beta tester for this game. Please note that it has nothing to do with the players, but the game itself. Good gaming and peace to all, Unfortunately, this player was in 2 of my games. I just don't think it's THAT bad.

borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 2:58:08 AM)
I don't either, at least not anymore. At the same time, while I am not to his level of fustration, I do understand it

NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 4:03:04 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: borner I don't either, at least not anymore. At the same time, while I am not to his level of fustration, I do understand it The truth, for me, is this: PBEM games are SO SLOW that they barely take up any of my real time (hardly any at all in fact) and I am in 4 games, so even when one stops due to bugs/etc I hardly even notice it since I was mostly not playing anyways. :)

Cunctator -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 6:07:44 AM)
This game is full of bugs yet unresolved. Every turn is an adventure and often you are obliged to backtrack redoing a turn, including rerolls. Currently if you play this game thinking to be a beta tester you exercise your patience to the extreme human limit. If you want to play a fully functional game, please look elsewhere. If you mix that with the fact that it is so easy to cheat every outcome, you feel discomfortable, but....it is weird... I keep on playing, hoping in a better future.

mrgodo -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 7:19:41 AM)
playable? anything is playable. the real question: is it worth the 70$? no. most of you yes men are star struck by the whole EiA game. that's why I bought it. luckily it fell off my radar and i picked it up well after it's "release". playing single player the mechanics didn't seem too bad. the ai is just so gawd awful though that it really didn't matter. you saw where the ai was, you outpick the ai on chits and then mop up a country at a time. pick some ridiculous victory conditions and then move on to the next. or declare war on several enemies, it doesn't matter. there's no concerted effort by the computer. now, playing the multi-player game is excruciating. i'm in three games. two full and one three player. the three player one was just to get things moving, but even this is slow. we've had a couple of problems with the game and then conflicts of interest with real life. now the major problem is the lame ai. i have my prussian ally declaring war on the french and while the entire french army is attacking me in vienna, the prussians are guarding berlin. i tried lending some troops to the prussian before i was at war and i think it just used the troops to garrison some cities and then dissolved the corps. as for the other games, one is stalled because of a bug (leaderless force) and the other is slow and painful and has lost a player to frustration. i don't blame him. this is a work in progress. my biggest beef currently is the lack of battle info. all battles are secret if you're not involved, or if your forces are wiped out. just like in history: no one really knows what battles Napoleon fought in, they were just made up after the fact! you never find out who's in a battle or what happens! this info is all lost. i find that difficult to believe that that sort of information wouldn't be tracked or provided within the game. this isn't some fog of war option. surely after a major battle some reports would filter through. instead you are limited to what the participants will tell you. if that's a computer, then it tells you nothing. if it's an ally, that's limited as well. i'm not sure what the problem is or why this game is such a mess, but for the money, it's not worth the aggravation. most of the effort seems to have been put into the graphics, and then they're at some fixed rate that buggers up the screen. pick up something commercially developed. this game is only for eia grognards.

DCWhitworth -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 7:23:48 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cunctator This game is full of bugs yet unresolved. Every turn is an adventure and often you are obliged to backtrack redoing a turn, including rerolls. Currently if you play this game thinking to be a beta tester you exercise your patience to the extreme human limit. If you want to play a fully functional game, please look elsewhere. If you mix that with the fact that it is so easy to cheat every outcome, you feel discomfortable, but....it is weird... I keep on playing, hoping in a better future. I disagree very much with this. It may have been true around the time the game was released but it most certainly isn't now. I can personally get a gpood feel for the state of the game as I am game host for a PBEM game that has been, to say the least, vexing. We have had trouble with various issues and I had to regular produce backups to get things going again and to investigate problems and backtrack. However I now realise it has been a long while since I had to do this. Since 1.02k the game has been pretty much running smoothly. There are one or two niggling issues but these will likely be resolved at 1.03 Also I notice that most of the people who slam the game actually don't present any evidence to back up their assertions.

gazfun -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 9:17:17 AM)
Yes we have been going very well since 1.02k has come out, with few problems. Cunctator you should chill out a little man[sm=innocent0009.gif]

eske -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/26/2008 11:33:19 AM)
Bear with him, gazfun. cunctator has had some troubles getting to do his battles at all. Not funny for a Napoleon wannabe [:(] But we have it solved now, so he will be busy [;)] /eske

Page: << < prev 1 [2] 3 4 5 next > >>

Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

1.316406