RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (Full Version)

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Empires in Arms the Napoleonic Wars of 1805 - 1815



Message

Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (8/30/2008 3:44:15 PM)

Hey guys:

This thing will have some demands placed into it for a while and I'm here for the long haul. I drink 1-2 pots of coffee a day. Sleep is for wimps :-0! There will be time to sleep when I'm dead LOL!

BTW: I don't take offense to anything. Everybody has their own bedside manner and I can live with that.





GShock -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/6/2008 11:05:42 AM)

Ellis...the manual, start from the manual [:)]

I've seen they're gonna build tutorials but everything starts from the manual. Video tutorials are surely welcome but don't forget the starting step.



Jimmer -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/6/2008 5:11:28 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

OK, it's me, Mr. negative again... but we are talking about a program to teach us how to play a broken game.....

I no longer accept the premise that this game is "broken". It is fully playable as is. There are many end-cases that can trip someone up, but it is no longer broken. IMO



borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/6/2008 5:38:20 PM)

It is better, but still in need of a major overhaul on the engine, new tires and maybe a paint job, but at least the car is running now. example, one game I am in, France and the Germans ended stacked together, and France cannot move out on his land phase. So, we are on hold until Marshall can de-bug it. As long as the trend is to get rid of old bugs, without making new ones as the updates come out, it is good progress.



mrgodo -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/8/2008 4:05:38 PM)

yes, as long as it just eliminates all the old bugs... but that isn't how things work. there are a stack of known bugs and a stack of unknown bugs. while whittling away at the stack of unknown bugs, there will be a portion of fixed bugs that will be re-introduced and a portion of unknown bugs that will be revealed as well as new bugs introduced.

people are being charged for this thing. this is not a professional piece of software but someone's attempt to bring a wargamer's dream to reality. when the game can't keep track of where forces are or basic features (like surrendering a garrison) don't work, that makes the game unplayable. just work around them? wait for the developer to fix your save game so you can continue? bogus. the more time i invest in this the more aggravated i get. i want this to work. i don't have time to play and debug it. and no matter how much debugging we do, since the development is single threaded, this game isn't going to be finished anytime soon. marshall, climb back into that pot of coffee of yours and come back when you've really finished this thing.



borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 4:25:23 AM)

Mr. Godo. I admit you are more wise than I. Just after posting my last entry, yet another game comes to a halt waiting on Marshall to fix a bug. [sm=duel.gif]



GShock -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 10:38:44 AM)

I wish everyone was comprehensive enough to understand one thing is a boardgame with a rules set, and another is a pc game, where all these rules must be BUILT (not on paper!) in code and brought together, with a working AI. Now, unless u have a team of 20 coders and a lead developer with 20 years experience at least in coding, these results are all to be expected and the more complex the game, the more likely critical bugs will arise.

Having said that, since no such DEV teams exist with wargames (and i suggest you to look at that "masterpiece" called Medieval Total War which benefitted from such a team and you'll see the AI is so poor the modders scripted cheats on the player's money) the choice is simple: either cope and have wargames on PC with all the flaws that depend on the problem i just mentioned or no wargaes and just boardgames.

I guess we're all for the first one and we know it takes patience.

Look at me, i spent the money on a game i never played. I don't even know of the bugs you all mentioned and the games you are playing and have got to be halted due to bugs...in my case, it is because the manual and the interface are very poor and "scared" me away.

Yet, i understand critical bugs come first even if, according to me, the manual and the UI should come even before the very same engine is built.

The difference is...that i am comprehensive and patient but am also aware that even 30-man DEV teams make such mistakes and are affected by such problems. [:)]

Gonna be fun when WiF comes out [;)] [;)] [;)] [;)]



pzgndr -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 12:07:01 PM)

quote:

in my case, it is because the manual and the interface are very poor and "scared" me away.


You're kidding, yes? The manual and interface may not be perfect, but they should not be used as a lame-ass excuse by those unwilling and/or unable to do some homework and get their hands dirty actually playing the game rather than whining about it in public. That's just pathetic. If y'all don't like the game or have some other nitnoid reason to not bother with it, fine, just move on. Or wait a while until these things get fixed, and they are getting fixed slowly but surely. It's not like this product is the first that failed to meet customers' lofty expectations for perfection, nor will it be the last. There's lots worse than the small price paid for this computer game for entertainment purposes, warts or no. [8|]



GShock -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 2:16:43 PM)

I find it comic that dozens of players and professional game reviewers found all the same "lame-ass" excuse. [;)]
Luckily, Ellis is well aware that this is a concrete problem.







pzgndr -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 4:13:37 PM)

And I was one of those professional game reviewers.  I was hardly "scared" by the manual or the interface, nor dissuaded from learning and playing the game, even though I had zero experience with the board game.  It may not play "accurately" as far as the original EiA board game rules are concerned, and there are known bugs and other issues with the computer version, but nonetheless the game is by definition playable and has been since Day 1 release. 

What I do not find comic is the continual whining and complaining from some folks, rather than a more constructive attitude oriented towards the ultimate goal of getting this game to where it should be.  Despite the negative and unhelpful tone of threads such as this one, I am impressed with the current ongoing resolution of issues and hopeful that we will in fact have an excellent game in our hands sooner or later.  From the v1.04 notes in the bug tracker system, the next update should be really good.  I'm willing to be patient while Marshall works off the rest of the items on the list, which may be many more months down the road.  So what?  We'll get there when we get there. 



NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 4:54:10 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

And I was one of those professional game reviewers.  I was hardly "scared" by the manual or the interface, nor dissuaded from learning and playing the game, even though I had zero experience with the board game.  It may not play "accurately" as far as the original EiA board game rules are concerned, and there are known bugs and other issues with the computer version, but nonetheless the game is by definition playable and has been since Day 1 release. 

What I do not find comic is the continual whining and complaining from some folks, rather than a more constructive attitude oriented towards the ultimate goal of getting this game to where it should be.  Despite the negative and unhelpful tone of threads such as this one, I am impressed with the current ongoing resolution of issues and hopeful that we will in fact have an excellent game in our hands sooner or later.  From the v1.04 notes in the bug tracker system, the next update should be really good.  I'm willing to be patient while Marshall works off the rest of the items on the list, which may be many more months down the road.  So what?  We'll get there when we get there. 


While I think the game is currently "playable" (that is a "vague" term and I am in a 1.03V game that needed to be fixed DIRECTLY by Marshall, does that count as playable????), I REALLY disagree that this game was "playable" since Day 1 release. This is just nonsense. The game had WAY TOO MANY crash bugs to be considered playable since Day 1. That's just serious nonsense.

Despite all the updates and what not, the game still is too slow going........even the AI version. Clicks need to be condensed and the PBEM REALLY needs to be streamlined (which, IMO, is no big deal considering how much the game already deviates from the EiA SOP).

I don't think it's fair to have a "We'll get there when we get there" attitude while charging hard working people $70 a pop for this lame duck. Do you? Maybe you are one of those people who doesn't care if people pay good money for crap or get scammed or whatever, I am. I think it's unfair and IMO, this game was marketed with little to no good intentions in mind.



GShock -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/9/2008 8:53:58 PM)

Am willing to be patient too...have been patient since the 1.0 release: bought the game the very same day and never could play it for the issues i explained.

I know Ellis is doing a good job, as a prophane, simply by watching the changelog. [:)]

...as of being constructive, i have given my suggestion on how to solve UI and manual issues, i even posted pictures of how other games build manuals and do tutorials...more than that i can't do.

I understand people are pissed off about what they had expected when compared with what they paid but luckily i am patient. [8D]




Obsolete -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/25/2008 4:10:12 AM)

Well, this all reminds me when Sierra had two quick tutorial video-clips on their Civil War General CD.  Something about how to use the left (or right) mouse button to select and move your units.  LOL.

Ahhhhh, those were the days.

Unfortunately, the sierra puzzle-quest games used to be freiken impossible without purchasing the hint books.





timewalker03 -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/25/2008 6:57:05 AM)

After reading the last 20 posts on this thread I have to say that we have now entered the world of semantics. The question of the thread is simple. Is this game Playable? Well if you want a technical answer then yes it is playable. I can double click the icon start a game and begin playing. SO yes it is playable. Now lets ask the question a little bit differently. Is this a quality product? That answer comes from the perspective you take towards the game. My answer to this question comes from the fact that I could care less about the PBEM part of this game and would like a robust computer opponent and the original EiA rules to play by. So my answer is: no this game is not a quality product. I realize that neither of these will probably ever be met, yet I hope some day they will be.

Now for me this part is my problem with this game. I did not pay $60 to take part as a Beta Tester for this game. That is what this community is now that the game is in the public realm. You have people like Jimmer, pzgndr, Mardonius, and a few others who scream loudly that this game is a workable product and sing praises to Marshall for it. Of course their needs are being met which in turn makes them happy. Also if you do not see things their way you will be berated by them. They will also do anything they can to get their point made even if it doesn't make sense. There are many people here though that do not see things the same way they do, but stay relatively silent on the matter hoping that this game one day will be like EiA or a very close variant. There are also those who voice their opinion loudly (Neverman) and get attacked from every direction from these people. The sad thing is they only see this from one perspective and do not take a holistic view of this game. I have followed this development since 2002. I waited for the tentative release in 2004, then again in 2005, and 2006. After that point I saw where this game was heading. Away from EiA and towards EiH which created a more complex game trying to pander to the historical accuracy of the period. During 2006 and 2007 until release we would hear very little from Marshall and less about the game until magically it seems in late 2007 the game was released and in very poor shape. So for a game with over 5 years of development we have come to this point. $60 for what we have now. Is this a quality product? I guess each person will have to answer this.



eske -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/25/2008 10:44:14 AM)

I for one am willing to pay that price as a contribution to have this dream come true.

Thats what I did. [:)]

/eske



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/25/2008 12:12:22 PM)

You guys got lucky! You only had to pay 60 bucks! The retail price was a little higher for me...LOL!
Personally, I still think it's worth it!



pzgndr -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/27/2008 3:01:23 PM)

quote:

You have people like Jimmer, pzgndr, Mardonius, and a few others who scream loudly that this game is a workable product and sing praises to Marshall for it. Of course their needs are being met which in turn makes them happy. Also if you do not see things their way you will be berated by them. They will also do anything they can to get their point made even if it doesn't make sense.


Let's review the bidding here. I do not scream loudly, nor sing very well at all. [:D] I am not offering praises for an unfinished product under an illusion that it IS a final product. It isn't. We can haggle all day long until the cows come home about whether this game should have been released when it was last December, or should have waited another year or two or three until it was "perfect."

quote:

I did not pay $60 to take part as a Beta Tester for this game... I have followed this development since 2002.


So if you knew what you were getting into, what exactly did you pay $60 for?? Anyone who did follow these forums knew, or should have known, that this game was incomplete and had issues, and yet the majority opinion was to get it released anyway as-is and the game would be updated over time. That was the deal. Good? Bad? Who knows. Matrix made a business decision to do it this way. Am I "happy" about it? No. Like everyone, I would like the final complete game in hand, sooner rather than later. Option B may have been to have no game at all, perhaps never. Would you be "happy" then?

quote:

Is this a quality product? I guess each person will have to answer this.


It is not a final complete game. It has issues. No news there. Complaints and criticisms were warranted. My personal take on all that is not to "berate" folks for identifying issues, and Mantis is up to over 300 identified issues since it was started, but to question what the whiners and complainers think they are gaining at this point by continuing to harp about it. My suggestion, perhaps heavy-handed as it may be, is to grow up and help move this thing forward rather than piss and moan about the past.

I'll offer another perspective about quality. This is a niche game in a niche market of computer wargames. EiA has how many players? Hundreds? One cannot compare the quality of loan wolf developers like Marshall with the development teams and development budgets of popular games like World of Warcraft with millions of paying customers. Ever stop to think about why Marshall chose to take on this project and why he continues to develop it despite the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune he faces? I'm not sure myself, but I can tell you I'm not about to quit my day job to take up computer game programming for niche games in a niche market.

We are at v1.04 now. It is what it is. It is higher quality now than it was at v1.0 release. v1.05 will be better but still not perfect. It may well be another year before everyone is happy. Maybe. We'll see.

quote:

I could care less about the PBEM part of this game and would like a robust computer opponent and the original EiA rules to play by... I realize that neither of these will probably ever be met, yet I hope some day they will be.


I may or may not get into PBEM games later, but I fully support PBEM and TCP/IP enhancements because they are important for the overall game. I also hope to see a robust computer opponent and classic EiA rules/OOBs, but I also want the EiH options so I can judge for myself what style game I want to play. I'm optimistic that all these things are possible. But we have to move forward from where we are to where we all want to be. Does that make sense?



Killerduck -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/27/2008 9:17:06 PM)

I am a HUGE EiA fan and I bought this game the day it came out. I have not played an enjoyable game on it, yet. Of course I am disappointed. Of course I am eagerly waiting for updates.

But, the sad fact is, I rarely, very rarely check in here for the update I am hoping for. The months are gnawing away at my faith in this product and I am starting to accept the fact I payed 79e for a game I will not play.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pzgndr

quote:

I did not pay $60 to take part as a Beta Tester for this game... I have followed this development since 2002.


So if you knew what you were getting into, what exactly did you pay $60 for?? Anyone who did follow these forums knew, or should have known, that this game was incomplete and had
<snip>
I do not follow forums anywhere on regular basis. Matrix released the game, I expected it to be complete. Blaming the customers for not reading these forums is pretty biased and blaming one customer for it is pointless.

quote:

Is this a quality product? I guess each person will have to answer this.


It is not a final complete game.
<snip>
That's it. The problem is, seriously, (for me)that I may have to upgrade to a new operating system that wont run EiA, before this game is finished.

I have huge respect for Ellis. The project is incredibly difficult and I am patient type... but to answer the question on the title, I have to say no.



borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/27/2008 9:27:42 PM)

Every now and then I feel regret for blasting this game, then, something happens fire off another round. Russia had a CAV corps with 4c up and disappear from the map. Part of the game should not me to have to run through a checklist every turn to make sure your corps are still there, if all they are doing is living off the land or waiting for a ship to pick them up. GOD THIS IS FUSTRATING! Hopefullythe rumored editor is working, so the host can at least add the money and manpower back into my accounts so I can re-build them.

Marshall, please, PLEASE, ignore the people looking for AI upgrades, IP playability, or any other "extras" and get this thing fixed first!!!!! I play these games for relaxation and enjoyment, and I am sorry to say there is precious little of either for me in EiA ( Eih???) at the moment!!!



NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/27/2008 10:47:23 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Every now and then I feel regret for blasting this game, then, something happens fire off another round. Russia had a CAV corps with 4c up and disappear from the map. Part of the game should not me to have to run through a checklist every turn to make sure your corps are still there, if all they are doing is living off the land or waiting for a ship to pick them up. GOD THIS IS FUSTRATING! Hopefullythe rumored editor is working, so the host can at least add the money and manpower back into my accounts so I can re-build them.

Marshall, please, PLEASE, ignore the people looking for AI upgrades, IP playability, or any other "extras" and get this thing fixed first!!!!! I play these games for relaxation and enjoyment, and I am sorry to say there is precious little of either for me in EiA ( Eih???) at the moment!!!



It's certainly unacceptable, after so much time has past since release, that corps are up and vanishing in the middle of a game. You really should NOT have to check on ANY corps, regardless of what they are doing, period.

This certainly makes me wonder how many corps/factors I have lost because I wasn't paying attention to where every corps was and how many factors it had in it. It really makes you wonder what else is going wrong that you don't notice, probably quite a bit.

The game is FAR from fixed. Forget about AI, IP, editor, whatever: this game isn't even working properly by itself!!!!

I am in another game where factors up and moved and got lost, etc. It's just bad, very very bad. Maybe Matrix should scratch this one and start over with the promise of giving anyone who paid for this game a free new copy. That would probably be for the best, but I doubt that will happen.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/27/2008 11:56:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan


quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

Every now and then I feel regret for blasting this game, then, something happens fire off another round. Russia had a CAV corps with 4c up and disappear from the map. Part of the game should not me to have to run through a checklist every turn to make sure your corps are still there, if all they are doing is living off the land or waiting for a ship to pick them up. GOD THIS IS FUSTRATING! Hopefullythe rumored editor is working, so the host can at least add the money and manpower back into my accounts so I can re-build them.

Marshall, please, PLEASE, ignore the people looking for AI upgrades, IP playability, or any other "extras" and get this thing fixed first!!!!! I play these games for relaxation and enjoyment, and I am sorry to say there is precious little of either for me in EiA ( Eih???) at the moment!!!



It's certainly unacceptable, after so much time has past since release, that corps are up and vanishing in the middle of a game. You really should NOT have to check on ANY corps, regardless of what they are doing, period.

This certainly makes me wonder how many corps/factors I have lost because I wasn't paying attention to where every corps was and how many factors it had in it. It really makes you wonder what else is going wrong that you don't notice, probably quite a bit.

The game is FAR from fixed. Forget about AI, IP, editor, whatever: this game isn't even working properly by itself!!!!

I am in another game where factors up and moved and got lost, etc. It's just bad, very very bad. Maybe Matrix should scratch this one and start over with the promise of giving anyone who paid for this game a free new copy. That would probably be for the best, but I doubt that will happen.


Gosh Neverman, you're always so positive LOL!

I don't think we should say that it's having major issues accross the board by itself. There are some corps teleportation issues that I am chasing but they are isolated to PBEM only and I still cannot dup these yet. Our own game is allowing me a chance to see a few things that maybe I would not see.

I understand that you are frustrated so rub some dirt on it then get back into the game!

Personally, I think the glass is always half full :-)








NeverMan -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/28/2008 12:09:42 AM)

There is no glass.

I'm in it to win it. :) How's that for positive?

Hey, I'm playing all my games and playing them to win. I don't think anything I have said is a "personal" slash to you nor do I think anything I've said is untrue. They are criticisms. I mean, seriously, I understand that you are working on this but maybe you are getting tunnel vision and this thing needs a fresh face or something. I'm just saying.



borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/28/2008 12:44:37 AM)

OK, i'll try to drink some kool aid here.....  Marshall.... how does this get fixed in the game I am in? 60 money is nearly a turns worth of income for Russia.......




DCWhitworth -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/28/2008 11:13:30 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

OK, i'll try to drink some kool aid here.....  Marshall.... how does this get fixed in the game I am in? 60 money is nearly a turns worth of income for Russia.......




Well the host can give you money back.



bOrIuM -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/28/2008 4:44:05 PM)

I am waiting for a real developpement team who's working on fixing all bugs, while Marshall can work on game's improvement. Current updates are only bug fixing and take up to 4 months for release.

AI is good enough for the half of stand alone people to enjoy the game and try new tricks. Time is soon to PBEM improvements for the second half of people who think that playing against someone else is funnier. Except for bugs as I mentionned, I think PBEM players would like only one major improvment: Simultaneous Diplo and Econo phases.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/28/2008 6:17:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

OK, i'll try to drink some kool aid here.....  Marshall.... how does this get fixed in the game I am in? 60 money is nearly a turns worth of income for Russia.......




That can be certainly be done as DCWhitworth says...




Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/28/2008 6:25:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeverMan

There is no glass.

I'm in it to win it. :) How's that for positive?

Hey, I'm playing all my games and playing them to win. I don't think anything I have said is a "personal" slash to you nor do I think anything I've said is untrue. They are criticisms. I mean, seriously, I understand that you are working on this but maybe you are getting tunnel vision and this thing needs a fresh face or something. I'm just saying.


I'm glad you're in it to win it. That is in fact very positive :-0!

Sorry, if I rubbed you wrong but I'm just not use to your bedside manner (And I probably should be by now).

My bad, I'll move on...







borner -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/29/2008 2:44:26 AM)

can the manpower be added as well? Just curious



Marshall Ellis -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/29/2008 1:07:05 PM)

I have not added that yet. Is that a good one to add?



Grapeshot Bob -> RE: Is This Game Playable Yet? (9/29/2008 9:28:09 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: timewalker03
I did not pay $60 to take part as a Beta Tester for this game. That is what this community is now that the game is in the public realm.



This is exactly the issue I have with this game. It is courtesy to give the beta testers a free copy of the game or pay them.

I know I'll never get my money back but I do know I'll never buy another game made by these guys.

Maybe the bugs will get ironed out at some point but until then I'm playing something else.



GSB



Page: <<   < prev  2 3 [4] 5 6   next >   >>

Valid CSS!




Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI
1.125