RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T51 (Full Version)

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larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T51 (12/30/2008 1:57:13 AM)

I've made a map study showing the positions of the Soviet Arty, Soviet Tanks, Axis Panzers, etc. and have uploaded it to a file host so you can download it to view it in it's entirety.  Needless to say it's CLASSIFIED to Curt until the information is stale, say turn 55 or so.  You can download the file using this url:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/nymyij53cwy/map study round two turn 51.GIF

it's about 2.83MB big.  Enjoy.

EDIT: Now that Curt has most of his units on the front line he can plug the holes almost faster than I can make them. Every once in a while I can make a hole in his front lines and / or push a unit backward one hex or so, but that's mostly the extent of the changes in these turns now. I suppose that's why most FITE games don't last much longer than T49 or T50 or so. I still hope to be able to make a hole he can't plug and thereby break his line somewhere and take off cross-country into the interior of the Soviet Union and / or the Caucaus. I'm making almost no progress at all in the advance into the Sevastapol area. It's like Odessa all over again. I guess I'll just have to accept the fact that I'm going to have to suffer high losses in order to make any progress in that part of the front lines. It's not like I have Romanians to spare for ignore losses attacks or something.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/2/2009 5:19:01 PM)

This is the way a typical German combat regiment looks like now-a-days. Almost half the strength it had originally is what most of my regiments have now. This doesn't bode well for 1942.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/492D7CA78841400E85C2B7D2FEB32CE7.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 10:55:51 PM)

Here's the minimap moves movie from turns 49 throu 53. The action is kind of subtle and hard to see but the front lines are actually slowly moving eastward.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/4B4462C016974B218652AB9D0DBFA115.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:01:30 PM)

And now some closeups starting at the north sector:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/5B4D93F56FDD433383A76AC6D5F246FD.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:04:32 PM)

And the next sector to the south:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/3B8A8BD3EB4B465EA88C43EFA28B433D.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:06:57 PM)

And the next sector to the south:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E48EB758AEA741EDBA6228A00C75FCB1.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:08:05 PM)

And the next sector to the south:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2BAE1D9A4277473A9DD64FF4510725E4.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:09:47 PM)

And the next sector to the south:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/4B151B92EE564E96965C5087B783536A.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:11:04 PM)

And the next sector to the south:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/55F069C5D902442ABC9F1F34F12FFCE5.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:12:10 PM)

And to the east of the last shot:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/308FCFFDFE244F61B009D5FDE87CE1FA.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:13:37 PM)

And in the north of Sevastapol area:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/37CCCB1CAAC84C7E98D9C65245A530B0.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T53 (1/3/2009 11:15:30 PM)

I believe I destroyed 9 infantry type Soviet units in turn 53. Here's the Axis losses so far:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/653E70812091454EAA96CBFB90B8CDE9.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/6/2009 3:54:38 AM)

In a surprise move ( well, it was a surprise to me ) Curt has attacked across the river near Rostov and has disrupted the Axis plans for the invasion of Russia. It's a disaster and it's going to get worse because the Axis has no reserves to move into the area to save the situation.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/2861E1552F3845CE89878E8DF1DAD705.gif[/image]



Silvanski -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/6/2009 6:06:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: larryfulkerson

In a surprise move ( well, it was a surprise to me ) Curt has attacked across the river near Rostov and has disrupted the Axis plans for the invasion of Russia. It's a disaster and it's going to get worse because the Axis has no reserves to move into the area to save the situation.

Ouch![X(]
You may have to pull back to the Mius river and shorten your front line[sm=scared0018.gif]
That's roughly the line Voroshilovgrad-Taganrog



Da_Huge_D -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T51 (1/6/2009 9:36:24 AM)

Indeed, very surprising.. I think he is gonna try to encircle some of your forces into pocket (west of simlanskya).
Pull back soon as you can to mius river, like Silvanski said.
Good luck!



Telumar -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T51 (1/6/2009 1:02:20 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Da_Huge_D

Indeed, very surprising.. I think he is gonna try to encircle some of your forces into pocket (west of simlanskya).
Pull back soon as you can to mius river, like Silvanski said.
Good luck!


Yup - there's also a shock army ready to steam into action at Milerovo.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/6/2009 4:41:12 PM)

Also, in Soviet turn 54 Curt blasted some holes in the Axis lines just to the southeast of Leningrad. I'm going to have to see if there's some way I can pull some ground combat units out of the line somewhere else to rush them into this area and shore up the line again.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/0777F7878F3B46128C257CCD446091DB.gif[/image]



sPzAbt653 -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/6/2009 7:27:02 PM)

OKH warns that this is the beginning of an all out offensive from north to south, and requests permission to withdraw to a defensible winter line. Hitler proclaims that this is preposterous, the Soviets are defeated!



Zorchi -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/7/2009 1:03:10 AM)

Since larry didn't manage to capture any of the major objectives by the 48h turn things were bound to change in favour of curt. Now his reinf are in full swing and larrys fighting force is getting smaller by the turn. Well on the second note, if i were curt id probably wait for around 10 turns on the southern front, even slowly retreating forces eastwards towards stalingrad and southwards towards caucasus, massively overextending larrys front, while pilling all reinf i can spare north of voroshilograd, and then strike out (if larry took the bait of overextending towards east and south) towards southwest in the direction of  melitopol or even more westward and take the whole german south army wing into a massive kessel...(southwestern strike...something manstein thought soviet generals should have done...). And the major bonus would have been having all of your striking force near the central front where they could have been easily dispatched to northwest towards kursk, north to moscow or southeast towards stalingrad if the necessity arised.
But nonetheless the situation is still very bleak for larry in the south.
Central front bulge looks just as brittle for soviets as it was 20 turns ago, but now with the diminishing axis fighting force and ever greater soviet one, even if there is a collapse, it wont matter much as curt will have the time and units to set up a new front. Moscow is out of reach, and now probably crawling with reinf.
In the north larry was the closest to the objective, almost cutting the raillroad connection. But that didnt happen and curt is starting to push back there to.

To bad no major objectives fell. It would be more interesting now, particularyl if moscow or stalingrad were taken. Now the only thing left is straightening lines in hopes of prolonged agonising fight, leapfroging fronts back to berlin... Or perhaps some magic axis offensive that would caught soviets with their pants down. But i don't see such an opportunity...



Raindem -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/7/2009 3:54:48 AM)

Soviet Winter Offensive, Dec 1941

You guys have already pretty well deciphered my strategy just based on the changes in the map.  But I'll go ahead and lay out what I had in mind.

My goals for this first offensive are mild.  In the north near Leningrad I’d like to reestablish the rail link by slicing off the protrusion in the line there.  Larry came to within a couple of hexes of cutting Leningrad off completely.  But now that he didn’t succeed, I need to be able to train units in and out of the pocket.  My plan is simple.  The 23rd Army will cross the river into the German rear (upper left yellow arrow).  Intel says that this area is only lightly screened.  At the same time I’ll put heavy pressure on the German lines to the east (upper right arrow). I have very strong reserves just sitting around in Leningrad doing nothing so I'll probably put 1 or 2 of those armies into action as well.  If I can recapture Kirishi and Budoghosh I’ll consider this part of the operation a success.

In the south my plans are a little more ambitious.  I would like to eliminate the huge bulge that is between Voroshilovgrad and Rostov.  I will attack south at Millerovo and north at Rostov (bottom 2 arrows).  The two groups will meet somewhere along the rail line that runs through Shakty.  If I can create a pocket that would be glorious, but I'll be satisfied just forcing Larry to abandon the bend.

http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r147/Raindem/Counteroffensive.jpg

Opening of the Offensive –

The initial attacks in the north did not go so well.  I did not succeed in crossing the Volkhov river at any point.  Intel was correct, there was only light screening troops, but my Soviet divisions didn’t have enough punch to force a bridgehead.  In the south things went a little better.  Very heavy attacks south of Millerovo made some ever so slight foward progress.  Small but measurable.  On the southern flank is where I made the most progress. I sliced through the Rumanian units rather easily.  Rostov was re-captured and the Don was breached in several places.  Larry is going to have to reinforce this sector because there is no way the Axis minors can hold the line on their own.

D+1 –

The follow up turn was like the first.  South of Leningrad my Armies turned into battering rams as I tried to force out the dug-in Germans.  In the south the upper pincer stalled but the lower one continued with good progress.  I committed the 1st Shock Army to take advantage of the breach.

D+2 –

My battering ram tactics in the north are starting to pay off.  Larry's defending units are getting worn down to nothing and then finally giving way.  I'm still not having much luck crossing the Volkhov river so I doubt I'll be able to pinch this one off.  If the Germans vacate this area it will have to be voluntarily.

In the south my right pincer remains stalled, so I decided to commit the 2nd Shock Army early to try and force an opening.  At Rostov the 1st Shock Army made it as far north as Shakty.  I still have 6 tank corps in reserve.  I'm waiting for the right time to toss them into the fray.

Larry has started to thin down some other sections of the line to reinforce the situation at Rostov.  This has given me a few extra opportunities for local attacks this turn.  But this isn't going to morph into a general offensive.  I just don't have enough units to attack everywhere at once, while at the same time keeping a reasonable emergency reserve.



Silvanski -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/7/2009 5:45:51 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Zorchi

Since larry didn't manage to capture any of the major objectives by the 48h turn things were bound to change in favour of curt......

Now the only thing left is straightening lines in hopes of prolonged agonising fight, leapfroging fronts back to berlin...


It sure would be interesting to see a FITE bout go beyond 1942[sm=sterb020.gif][sm=00000106.gif]



Zorchi -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/7/2009 6:47:39 PM)

The problem is, we know the effort is lost. Sure id like to see the whole 42 and even 43 as heavy tanks start pouring in as reinf...most fite games end before any tigers and panthers start roaming the steppes. The question is, will curt and larry see enough fun in that drive to berlin to invest massive amounts of time to play the game to its bitter end or will they just quit and start a new one...

My guess is probably not as the game is getting unbalanced after turn 48. They should make some house rules to restrain soviets in some way. Perhaps some battle rules that would hinder soviets or inflict more casualties to them, like only frontal attacks and no explicit flanking attacks(turns 50-150), +no arty support in exploitation of the breach that was made the same turn, putting say 20% of airforce to rest at turn 100 and 40% at turn 150, etc. ... Only your imagination and willingnes to do it is the limit.

At least the arty part is not too unhistoric, as although the soviets did manage to grasp the usage of combined arms, the timing of operational procedures involved in massive operations was frequently off sync even at the end of ww2.

From designers perspective, id like to see TO to force japan into the war with the soviets in manchuria instead of attacking pearl harbour. This would have the effect of hampering the soviet reinforcements. This TO would appear say in october if axis progress would not be sufficient and would disappear on 7.12. After that the TO should still offer direct soviet confrontation with japan but in ever less significant manner as americans would start shredding japans resources. It depends on play testing but the soviets should have the TO option of more american equipment shipments and subsequently say +2 force supply on soviet side. And if moscow falls imminent american entrance to war (in addition to turkey on axis). This would result in say 4-8 turn delay with which manchurian divisons would be freed and reinf would increase to levels which are say at the soviet turn 60(with moscow fallen afcourse).

Needles to say this would be a map for pro soviet players as the conditions would be quite stringent in order to win as soviets.



Da_Huge_D -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T55 (1/9/2009 10:57:40 AM)

Update? Larry?



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T58 (1/9/2009 8:13:40 PM)

I shipped some reserves into the Leningrad area and managed to seal off the holes for this turn at least. Here's the Leningrad situation as it exists after Axis turn 58. So far so good. The Soviets are still pushing to the south and I expect another hole to open momentarily.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/358E27FCAC6D4004A407590D58564F06.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T58 (1/9/2009 8:16:58 PM)

The site of the red arrow in the picture below is the site where the Soviets have been pushing the Romanians northward. I expect that they will open a hole in the next Soviet turn.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/164784DBF0384104835B59B04FAD7444.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T58 (1/9/2009 8:21:18 PM)

Hitler says that the drive on Stalingrad will be postponed until better conditions in 1942, or at least until this Soviet winter offensive is ongoing. Here's the two Soviet driving forces trying to meet in the middle and pinch off some Axis assets to kill.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/D4A5C07DA05E49438727EF2C0D5F039F.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T58 (1/9/2009 8:23:50 PM)

Here's an abbreviated picture of the Axis turn 58 losses so far:

[image]local://upfiles/16287/E5B6C9CEE0504889A13363F994917091.gif[/image]



Raindem -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T58 (1/11/2009 12:17:43 AM)

Soviet Offensive, Update Turn 59 -

Although it may not seem like it from Larry's perspective, my offensive is starting to peter out.  On the Leningrad front my river crossings have utterly failed.  And without a threat into the German rear my frontal attacks to the east of there were doomed as well.  I made a few small gains immediately south of Leningrad but I didn't even come close to re-establishing the rail link, which was my original objective.

In the south the situation is not as ominous as it appears for Larry.  He has successfully halted my northern drive from Rostov, and the northern pincer never did gain traction.  On Turn 58 I committed my armored reserve just to try and make something happen.  The best I could muster was a miniscule encirclement of some Axis minors that were left stranded on the east bank of the Don.

I'll be attacking in places for a few more turns just to straighten out the line.  But the drama is over.  Larry has survived to Soviet winter counteroffensive.



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T60 (1/11/2009 6:53:48 PM)

The Soviets are on the move in the area of front lines south of Murmansk. Here's a shot showing how the Soviets have encircled a Finnish regiment and are probably going to kill it before I can save it from destruction.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/10C7D3BDD2894AEA8CA3C6F4FCC28BD4.gif[/image]



larryfulkerson -> RE: Curt vs Larry FITE T60 (1/11/2009 6:57:18 PM)

In the Murmansk area itself the Soviets are outflanking the Axis defenders with some mysterious unit(s) and I think I'm going to have to break down one of the units into smaller units and go deal with the outflankers sometime soon.

[image]local://upfiles/16287/399E092982B2489CB4C9FB3E87ABA782.gif[/image]



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