quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffreys

DBeves:

I would respectfully disagree. The scenarios included under the Kharkov 2.0 patch are "official" Kharkov scenarios that are presented as being up to SSG's standards are endorsed by SSG as a part of the game. They are provided automatically when you download the patch and are supported by SSG just like any other part of the game. I do sincerely thank those wonderful dedicated volunteers who did such a great job in producing Kirovagrad and Konrad (I believe Husky was produced in house, please correct me if I'm wrong), but no matter who produced them they were finalized and released under the auspices of SSG as a part of Kharkov.

This is different from Soltsy which is a very nice scenario, but makes no claim of being official or of having to meet the standards of SSG's official scenarios. The other battles are provided to me by SSG as part of the game and are part of the value that I receive when I purchase the game. They are in fact of substanltial value to me, and I feel they should certainly be included in any price comparison or purchase decision.

As an aside, I also read somewhere that some of the HPS scenarios are user produced, which would be a fine thing if true. Do you know if that is accurate?

In any case to get the same battles included in Kharkov and Across the Dneper for $90 you would have to spend $120 on HPS games and would still not have Kirovagrad. For me that makes the SSG games a better deal. Note though, that I do not mean this as a criticism of the HPS games which look to me as if they also provide excellent value for the money. In fact as a result of this discussion I am considering purchasing some of them, so my thanks to all those who have provided information about them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TARG
The main weakness of SSG titles is..........and older titles becoming obsolete once a new engine comes out.

If these two things were changed than SSG would be almost perfect [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

quote:

Jalla

If you had read this thread through, then you understand that Matrix have discounted AtD2 because they couldn't give a direct discount to AtD owners (by the way, the discount (as far as I am aware) was for previous AtD owners - not people who bought Kharkov).

So - the point I'm trying to make in your particular case is this -
a) just because you bought Kharkov does not mean you were getting a discount
b) you have actually been offered AtD2 at a discounted price

None of you lot might not like that. Some of you might not even believe it. But just because you don't believe they have discounted it, doesn't make it so...does it

I think it's time to put the thread to sleep. It's a dark day when most of the posts on a new release are about accusations of corruption. The price is what the price is. You've also been told here, by Erik, that they will come good in the next game for customers who bought.

Pay and play or don't pay and leave.

I can promise you I will not be posting in this thread again. The whining - and whilst I hate using that word, after all that's been said on this forum by Matrix and others, that is what it is and it's still not enough - is just plain annoying now.

Nighty night peeps.

Yes well - who made you god of posting ? If you dont like the discussion then dont read it - dont tell others what they should post about. If people are in here complaining about the price and saying its too expensive for them to buy - that is valid criticism. The fact that people are here saying they cant justify the expenditure is entirely the point isnt it ? To me, one person buying at 35 is worse then two buying at 25 . That to me is something matrix and ssg would want to know. If you have no problem with the price then I dont really see why you have a need to post at all really - to deny others that right is just arrogance..

Well - I wasn't going to post again, but it appears you were determined to bring me out of retirement.

So I made a post and you choose to reply based on the two sentences "Pay and play or don't play and leave" and "...is just plain boring now"? You completely disregarded the rest of my post which made more sense (with regard to the post I was responding to) than some other posts on here...AND you choose to ignore posts with even lesser content on this thread and focus on mine? WoW! [&o]

quote:

If you have no problem with the price then I dont really see why you have a need to post at all really - to deny others that right is just arrogance..

So is freedom of speech is only acceptable if it adheres to your point of view?....right.[8|]

quote:

ORIGINAL: jeffreys

DBeves:

I would respectfully disagree. The scenarios included under the Kharkov 2.0 patch are "official" Kharkov scenarios that are presented as being up to SSG's standards are endorsed by SSG as a part of the game. They are provided automatically when you download the patch and are supported by SSG just like any other part of the game. I do sincerely thank those wonderful dedicated volunteers who did such a great job in producing Kirovagrad and Konrad (I believe Husky was produced in house, please correct me if I'm wrong), but no matter who produced them they were finalized and released under the auspices of SSG as a part of Kharkov.

This is different from Soltsy which is a very nice scenario, but makes no claim of being official or of having to meet the standards of SSG's official scenarios. The other battles are provided to me by SSG as part of the game and are part of the value that I receive when I purchase the game. They are in fact of substanltial value to me, and I feel they should certainly be included in any price comparison or purchase decision.

As an aside, I also read somewhere that some of the HPS scenarios are user produced, which would be a fine thing if true. Do you know if that is accurate?

In any case to get the same battles included in Kharkov and Across the Dneper for $90 you would have to spend $120 on HPS games and would still not have Kirovagrad. For me that makes the SSG games a better deal. Note though, that I do not mean this as a criticism of the HPS games which look to me as if they also provide excellent value for the money. In fact as a result of this discussion I am considering purchasing some of them, so my thanks to all those who have provided information about them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves
No - it was your use of the word "Whining" that made me respond to your post in particular actually. I didnt say you coudnt respond did I? Merely that in a post complaining about the price, which you dont have a problem with and in a thread you yourself said was "Whining" WHY you would want to post - I mean no one has you tied to your computer forcing you to read it are they.

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and I dont regard it as "Whining" merely as making a point

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ORIGINAL: parusski

WHINE WHINE WHINE, ARGUE ARGUE ARGUE, MISUNDERSTANDINGS.

GOD this is getting to be boring, and really pointless.

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

It was pointless to start this thread to begin with.[8|]

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ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well - I bought it ...

But I have to say - that is expensive for a one scenario expansion.

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ORIGINAL: Jalla

As I've bought all the SSG previous titles (Korsun, AtD, BiN, BiI, Battlefront, Kharkov etc.)...

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ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jalla

As I've bought all the SSG previous titles (Korsun, AtD, BiN, BiI, Battlefront, Kharkov etc.)...

Jas you bought every SSG title but you only purchased Kharkov because you would get a discount on AtD2 some day as you claimed in your original post? [8|] You've also never had a need to post a question or comment and Matrix before either? [8|]


Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

PS: In the scenario selection screen Operation Konrad is spelled with a small (k)onrad. FYI for the patch.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jalla

As I've bought all the SSG previous titles (Korsun, AtD, BiN, BiI, Battlefront, Kharkov etc.)...

Jas you bought every SSG title but you only purchased Kharkov because you would get a discount on AtD2 some day as you claimed in your original post? [8|] You've also never had a need to post a question or comment and Matrix before either? [8|]


Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels. The map unfortunately is pretty much unplayable as is with the labels on and though the scenario designer has commented somewhere that he could not use the standard SSG map pallete, the look of the map is just not up to publisher-grade.

Being free it really doesn't matter all that much but imo despite all the undoubtedly hard work put inside it should not have been included with the same "official" add-on as Husky. It's like putting a DTP map inside a bona fide board wargame box.

PS: In the scenario selection screen Operation Konrad is spelled with a small (k)onrad. FYI for the patch.

quote:

comment, it also means

quote:

ORIGINAL:

Whether you want to play the scenario or not (I think it's a scenario I'd like to play, and from talking to other players who have played it, it's a lot of fun),...

quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
Operation Konrad Comment

Someone needs to re-do the map and take out roughly 90% of the town labels.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

I disagree V22 - I think it is important to let developers know why your not buying a game...if you don't then they don't know what to do to remedy that. What was pointless was the inane head banging (myself included).

Targ - that is an awesome film.

quote:

ORIGINAL: DBeves

Well - I bought it ...

But I have to say - that is expensive for a one scenario expansion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: TARG

quote:

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

It was pointless to start this thread to begin with.[8|]

“Yeah well, that’s just, ya know, like, your opinion, man.”

[image]http://thewareaglereader.files.wordpress.com/2008/11/opinion.jpg[/image]