RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (Full Version)

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CharonJr -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 12:05:19 AM)

Even if he digs in it will be pure hell during those winter turns - even vs. the AI - I don't even want to start thinking about what a human Soviet player is able to do, especially if he has been conserving his troops... ;)

CharonJr



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 12:16:00 AM)

One note, have pulled all my cavalry units back and stacked them 3 high for December when they can be converted to corps.

Leningrad front. He made one attack here, forced me back in 1 hex and I stood in the second. I adjusted my front to keep from getting surrounded one hex.


[image]local://upfiles/8844/3346011655E243408893DD3DD447BD6D.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 12:23:00 AM)

Did he attack you in a swamp?



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 12:29:11 AM)

Kalanin Front, am getting better with the maps, sooner or later i will have this down pat[sm=comp16.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/8844/4FE949ADBC2C4D11A6739AE04EC6A5AE.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 12:39:11 AM)

Moscow Front, eerily quiet[sm=innocent0009.gif]

[image]local://upfiles/8844/C0D4D6F58F974E8FB0AE15940377B1F9.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 12:50:38 AM)

Here is that fluid (that means he is kicking my ass[:D]) front.


[image]local://upfiles/8844/B27802123F8940F5BB90C6681AF4B9B4.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 1:00:46 AM)

Kharkov, the other beat down front[sm=00000055.gif]. At least it was a controlled retreat.

[image]local://upfiles/8844/67AE63DD87284BE3BD30C625F979371C.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 1:11:09 AM)

Stalino front, he is advancing here but if the mud hits he will be in very bad defensive terrain.[:-]

[image]local://upfiles/8844/5CB191D1F8814D1994B8F92F73394B13.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 1:16:16 AM)

You may not want tank brigades sitting by their lonesome; they are better off stacked with a rifle division.



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 1:17:02 AM)

Crimean front, nothing happening.

[image]local://upfiles/8844/393EC9E269E640F48167731CBD8ACCF0.jpg[/image]



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 1:18:33 AM)

Would love to, but have more tanks than infantry in that area[8|], just filling the line for now till the mud hits. Normally I would have infantry manning that river.



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 1:29:45 AM)

Wanted to comment on my strategy up to now. I realize that by falling back and trading space for time and saving the troops to fight later I am basically going against what the Russians did historically. I realize this will make winning much easier as my army will be massive when I go over to the offensive and the Germans start as strong as they ever get and get weaker as the game goes along. I plan on playing my next game like Stalin is my real boss[&o] and seeing how it plays out. I have seem several comments that make it seem that the German player cannot win vs a defense that doesn't stand and take huge losses. I am not so sure that is true because several times in my current game I expected my opponent to be much more aggressive and punch thru my lines. I have covered some areas with very thin lines and made many mistakes with deployments. Also the german player has taken light losses compared to what he could have if he pressed very hard. I expected to lose Leningrad.

Being his first GC game as well as mine he probably was unsure how things would go. Fog of war is great for balancing the playing field. I expect he will be much more free with his forces in his next attempt.



Flaviusx -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 2:01:36 AM)

The problem with running away isn't that it's ahistorical.

The problem is it's not the best way to defend. You can actually hurt and stop the Germans a lot more quickly if you start laying on the panzer spearheads in the right manner.

But thus far not a single Soviet player that I've seen thus far has figured out how to do this. (And when they do, I anticipate a lot of complaints about this from our German players, who will be even less happy about Soviets who fight back than Soviets who run away. So it goes.)




ParaB -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 2:42:11 AM)

Really enjoy reading this AAR, keep 'em coming!





randallw -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 2:43:07 AM)

Is the main goal of attacking the panzers to damage them, or to help use up their ammo/supply, and cause fatigue?



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 3:05:03 AM)

Well your a much better player than I am Flaviusx, because the few times i tried to hit back I got my arse handed to me. I am sure part of that is because he never really put himself in that much danger. I really do plan on hitting back earlier next go round. In the south looks to be the place to do it, as the forces there are really strong and not spread out to hell and gone[:D]

Also winter turn 2 of my game against Haudrauf1962 has seen major breakthroughs in several areas, if you get a chance read his AAR, i am sure he is playing for mud or some other salvation. Biggest problem I have is supply at the moment in that game, but once my troops turn back in to pumpkins I am sure he will hand me some blows in return.

Thanks for the positive comments para, I get them out as soon as my opponent can do them, he works some long hours I understand.



CarnageINC -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 3:27:42 AM)

Enjoying your new graphics on the map, good idea for attacks and failed attacks.  I might start using that on my maps if you don't mind?



CarnageINC -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 3:32:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The problem with running away isn't that it's ahistorical.

The problem is it's not the best way to defend. You can actually hurt and stop the Germans a lot more quickly if you start laying on the panzer spearheads in the right manner.

But thus far not a single Soviet player that I've seen thus far has figured out how to do this. (And when they do, I anticipate a lot of complaints about this from our German players, who will be even less happy about Soviets who fight back than Soviets who run away. So it goes.)




Shhhhhhh! *whisper* 'talk quietly we don't want to upset the apple cart'



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 3:34:06 AM)

Feel free sir, and if you have any ideas to help make it even for informational feel free to let me know. I got the little corner graphic idea from you[:D] Showing the Sit-rep/front and date.



CarnageINC -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 3:45:00 AM)

Thanks Miller41.  Feel free to swipe any new ideas I might come up with too.  Anything to make the AAR's easier and more enjoyable.  I'm thinking about experimenting a little with my maps, try and declutter them some.  You seem to have a good formula so far with your print, I think it might do with your zoomed in level.  I think when I get to key battles I'll do that with the attack arrows.  Ah...well see.  Keep it up, looking great [;)]



CarnageINC -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 4:06:29 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: miller41

I plan on playing my next game like Stalin is my real boss[&o] and seeing how it plays out. I have seem several comments that make it seem that the German player cannot win vs a defense that doesn't stand and take huge losses.


Redmarkus seems to be doing this type of defense, and IMO its doing a good job of me having to mop up (wasting time too) small pockets here and there. I know killing units is good but I think a Soviet player can achieve a balance and feed the Germans just enough to slow them down in some areas. Plus it keeps the panzer troops more on the front and not in the rear gathering fuel for the next punch. Just my thoughts on the subject. [8D]



Klydon -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 4:50:54 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

The problem with running away isn't that it's ahistorical.

The problem is it's not the best way to defend. You can actually hurt and stop the Germans a lot more quickly if you start laying on the panzer spearheads in the right manner.

But thus far not a single Soviet player that I've seen thus far has figured out how to do this. (And when they do, I anticipate a lot of complaints about this from our German players, who will be even less happy about Soviets who fight back than Soviets who run away. So it goes.)




I think there was one where the Soviet defended forward early and got his butt kicked in the middle pretty good, but otherwise, the Soviet players have pretty much pulled back.

I think this game is like most games in that with players of equal experience, it is far easier to play defense. (Especially true with rookies). What is worse is I also agree that I think the Russians will have a faster learning curve as well. It appears that with the way things are now, the Axis player is going to have to be a real operator to have any success against a good Russian. I have heard bits and pieces that this is not the way it is among most of the testers in that the really good Germans can make some serious hay.

This is one of the things that makes games so tough to get a good feel and balance since it is not really a lot of fun to have one side that constantly wins all the time. Do you try to balance for the elite level of play or an average level of play because it could be very different.



Flaviusx -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 5:03:04 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: randallw

Is the main goal of attacking the panzers to damage them, or to help use up their ammo/supply, and cause fatigue?


Yes.

More specifically, the point is to catch them when they are vulnerable, beat them up, and force the German to waste time pulling them out of the line for resting and refitting. If you are very lucky you might even rout them and render them combat incapable for a turn or two. (Tip: if possible cut them off and force them to retreat in combat. That's an automatic rout.)

You won't destroy them or anything like that, but there comes a point when the panzers are just plain tired out and anything you can do to force them to pause can only help your cause.

Judging when and where to do this is the key. I'm quite partial to using the Smolensk area as a killing field in mid summer. But opportunities could arise anywhere.



randallw -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 5:20:57 AM)

How exactly is this done?  Does it require a large collection of Soviet divisions, positioned right next to where the panzers will end their turn, after attacking and advancing, then the divisions punch 'em in the face and run away best they can?  It sounds like a lot of guessing/estimating whether the Axis player will launch deliberate or hasty attacks, and how many MPs the panzers have.



Flaviusx -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 5:24:19 AM)

They punch and then disperse, yes.




kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 5:37:29 AM)

That's one way. I prefer to cut them off and make them have to backtrack, just to slow them down.



hgilmer3 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 4:40:25 PM)

Your maps are very good.



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 8:43:12 PM)

Turn 18 and Mud is here, at least for a time.[:D] Thought I would try something new.


[image]local://upfiles/8844/86F1F42AD67D40FEA2BBA11BA2D99C72.jpg[/image]



randallw -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 8:47:34 PM)

The Axis have lost over 5k AFVs?



kfmiller41 -> RE: Road to Oblivion GC Miller41 (R) vrs Belphigor (G) (1/15/2011 8:55:14 PM)

Due to inactivity I decided to outline my plans in general for December. Of course this is subject to all kinds of problems that could change it.[:'(]

[image]local://upfiles/8844/981F9F9074094610B5798A67F4BBF369.jpg[/image]



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