RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J)

RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (Full Version)

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obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/10/2014 4:21:22 PM)
July 11 - 12, 1942 INDIA: Got a little too close to Diego in a scouting mission with three RN DDs. An entire sentai of Vals attacked and got three bombs onto Decoy, which sank, and another two onto Electra, which should make it. At least I know he's got some firepower out here now. Don't like losing a ship, but that is good to know. Pacific: Another level one field at Onotoa just below Tabiteuea just built up. CHINA: Interesting events in China. The troops near Chikhiang endure a DA the Japanese only get a 1:4, but of course the losses are tough to take for the Chinese. I'll be swapping out one corps for a bigger one, and hopefully it can dig in before the next serious action. More importantly, the troops up near the mountains hold the tanks to a 1:8!! The Allies take minimal losses, including no loss to guns, while the Chinese take 3 destroyed and 52 disabled vehicles, hopefully tanks and not motorized support. This should give good time for digging in and gives a sense that this big corps was definitely worth the cost of building up. Most losses were from the smaller corps and it will be even more slid once it gets to 2 forts in a few days. I thought long and hard about a return DA here, but with no ability to protect the troops from air strikes and since the tanks have most likely dug in to at least forts 1, this seems dicey. The disruption caused by a 1:8 attack would likely be significant though, and the AV adjustment for the Chinese defense rose from actual while the tanks had a lower than actual adjusted. It might have worked, but I was too wary of turning a good thing into a terrible one up here. Now. If I can sneak a corps behind these forward units into the 20k SL hex against the two small tank regiments there, maybe, just maybe there would be a chance to cut off the forward division. SIGINT: Over the past few months these units have been located at Perth. Id like to trap them there in a few months! [;)] 16th Army is located at Perth(49,147). Imperial Guards Division is located at Perth(49,147). 8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion is located at Perth(49,147). 4th Division is located at Perth(49,147). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 11, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on TF, near Diego Garcia at 6,62 Weather in hex: Heavy cloud Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 5 minutes Japanese aircraft D3A1 Val x 33 No Japanese losses Allied Ships DD Decoy, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage DD Fortune DD Electra, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage Aircraft Attacking: 8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 12 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb 13 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 78,51 (near Chihkiang) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 32519 troops, 386 guns, 578 vehicles, Assault Value = 989 Defending force 36956 troops, 163 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1099 Japanese adjusted assault: 542 Allied adjusted defense: 2674 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 4 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 1863 casualties reported Squads: 7 destroyed, 199 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 27 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 11 disabled Allied ground losses: 1130 casualties reported Squads: 12 destroyed, 108 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 13 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Guns lost 12 (1 destroyed, 11 disabled) Assaulting units: 13th Tank Regiment 15th Division 34th Division 23rd Tank Regiment 10th Tank Regiment 13th Army 3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Mortar Battalion 5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Defending units: 73rd Chinese Corps 63rd Chinese Corps 70th Chinese Corps 86th Chinese Corps 7th Artillery Regiment -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at 72,49 (near Kweiyang) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 8232 troops, 122 guns, 598 vehicles, Assault Value = 426 Defending force 46542 troops, 309 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1596 Japanese adjusted assault: 306 Allied adjusted defense: 2459 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 8 Combat modifiers Defender: terrain(+), experience(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 195 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 8 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Vehicles lost 55 (3 destroyed, 52 disabled) Allied ground losses: 354 casualties reported Squads: 1 destroyed, 33 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled Assaulting units: 7th Ind.Tank Brigade Guards Tank Division Defending units: 7th Chinese Corps 14th Chinese Corps 66th Chinese Corps 1st Group Army 1st Artillery Regiment 18th Artillery Regiment -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [image]local://upfiles/37283/4D2D55CC1E044EA1AEAED105480D390B.jpg[/image] Just slowly working up each base here. A massive flood of units and supply will reach the area in 5-7 days. Lots of base forces, engineers and some small troops. Fingers crossed it stays quiet, but most are on quick ships at least.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/10/2014 4:24:39 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BBfanboy Seems to me that engineers are needed to get forts built at a reasonable rate for units in the field. Units that have their own engineers do just fine, but for HQs and artillery/anti-tank units fort building is very slow. I put some independent construction regiments in the hex and fort building for the units without engineers accelerated. It's a hard choice between having construction units building forts and doing repairs at bases or helping in the field. Good thinking. These are all sitting around doing nothing as I don't want to expend supplies on base forts. So maybe I'll move a few into contested hexes. I wouldn't actually mind getting them killed off as they eat more supplies than they're worth. [:)]

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/10/2014 4:24:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: Yeah, supply seems to flow just fine about everywhere on the map. If you and I could have over 1 million men supplied over dirt roads in Burma during the monsoon anything can be supplied everywhere. So far in this game I have never had problems with supply flowing anywhere except Northern OZ. I have stopped hoping/counting on supply ever being a limiting factor (as long as its available). Different for me. Drop into my AAR if you want to talk details. [:)] Will do.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/10/2014 10:30:28 PM)
July 13 - 14, 1942 SUBS: No sign of the KB moving on the approaches to Truk, Rabaul or Kweijalen. INDIA: Our forces at Hyderabad try a DA. It tells me what i need to low, but at some cost. These troops must be well dug in and experienced, while mine had 1 fort for the divisions but none yet for the arty. I'll wait for anything else until the arty get protected a bit more. He tries a bombing run with about 100 Sallys but loses around 8-10 on the day to flak from 20k feet! [:)] Our bombing runs go a little better. An SNLF is wrecked at Viz and a few hits are put on the fields at Bellary. I'll keep probing and trying to hit where the CAP isn't, but if any of his CAP moves to protect the smaller bases I'll load up and take on the big ones. Some new 4E groups arrive here to bring totals up to around 110 planes, soon to increase when the groups expand as well. Training pilots like mad for that! Pacific: All continuing well. Wasp makes Sydney and will repair and rest for a few turns, taking fighters into the now expanded group, and then she will move to defend the IO. CHINA: Lots of bombing and ground bombardments, but no fresh attacks. SIGINT: Good SIGINT on Diego here. This combined with earlier notes provides a good picture of what is here. 41st Infantry Regiment is located at Diego Garcia(11,62). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 13, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ground combat at Hyderabad (39,32) Allied Bombardment attack Attacking force 45500 troops, 856 guns, 818 vehicles, Assault Value = 1673 Defending force 45453 troops, 623 guns, 664 vehicles, Assault Value = 970 Japanese ground losses: 183 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 6 disabled Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled Guns lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled) Allied ground losses: 142 casualties reported Squads: 4 destroyed, 10 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Guns lost 9 (2 destroyed, 7 disabled) Vehicles lost 10 (5 destroyed, 5 disabled) Assaulting units: I Aus Corps Engineer Battalion 7th Armoured Brigade 7th Australian Division 6th Australian Division 762nd Tank Battalion 44th Cavalry Regiment 70th British Division Waziristan Division 6th Medium Regiment 77th Coast AA Regiment 25th Indian Mountain Gun Regiment 21st Indian Mountain Gun Regiment III Indian Corps 85th British AT Gun Regiment 65th Coast AA Regiment 2/1st Med Regiment 260th Coast AA Regiment 2/9th Field Regiment 2/11th Field Regiment 134th Field Artillery Battalion 2nd HK&S Heavy AA Regiment Defending units: 5th Division 24th Ind Engineer Regiment 21st Division 14th Tank Regiment 8th JAAF Base Force 30th Fld AA Gun Co 26th Fld AA Gun Co 50th Field AA Battalion 22nd Air Defense AA Regiment 21st Air Defense AA Regiment 11th Air Fleet Southern Army 11th Ind.AA Gun Co 25th Army 3rd Mortar Battalion 32nd Ind.AA Gun Co 31st Fld AA Gun Co 3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 45th Field AA Battalion 26th JAAF AF Bn 40th Field AA Battalion 4th Air Defense AA Regiment 13th Ind.AA Gun Co 3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 45th Ind.AA Gun Co 18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 20th AA Regiment 106th JAAF AF Bn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR June 14, 42 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 6th Australian Division, at 39,32 (Hyderabad) Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 120 NM, estimated altitude 25,200 feet. Estimated time to target is 35 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 26 A6M3 Zero x 7 Ki-21-IIa Sally x 40 Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 11 Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 12 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 6 damaged Aircraft Attacking: 17 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 20200 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb 20 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 20200 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb 3 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 20200 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb Also attacking 762nd Tank Battalion ... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Morning Air attack on 762nd Tank Battalion, at 39,32 (Hyderabad) Weather in hex: Partial cloud Raid detected at 115 NM, estimated altitude 22,200 feet. Estimated time to target is 33 minutes Japanese aircraft A6M2 Zero x 22 A6M3 Zero x 11 Ki-21-IIa Sally x 34 Ki-43-IIa Oscar x 15 Ki-44-IIa Tojo x 9 Japanese aircraft losses Ki-21-IIa Sally: 4 damaged Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak Allied ground losses: 8 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 17 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 20200 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb 17 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 20200 feet Ground Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Afternoon Air attack on Sasebo 5th SNLF, at 42,37 (Vizagapatnam) Weather in hex: Light cloud Raid spotted at 9 NM, estimated altitude 6,000 feet. Estimated time to target is 3 minutes Allied aircraft Wellington Ic x 32 No Allied losses Japanese ground losses: 540 casualties reported Squads: 2 destroyed, 33 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 31 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled Aircraft Attacking: 16 x Wellington Ic bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb 16 x Wellington Ic bombing from 6000 feet Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [image]local://upfiles/37283/8A8F2B41C4054ADAB99F72564CF80796.jpg[/image] Lost the City of Agra to an 'internal explosion' recently! Glad she was only carrying supply and not a 4E group! [:D]

crsutton -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 1:06:26 AM)
I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply?

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 6:59:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? Any bombardment should use his supplies, and of course taking any replacements needed after does as well. Hopefully I can get better results once dug in. If not I'll be sitting here a while not ding much until the next phase gets into movement.

MrKane -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 10:05:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? My understanding of manual says that bombarded units are eating supplies with combat rate not normal rate.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 10:31:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrKane quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? My understanding of manual says that bombarded units are eating supplies with combat rate not normal rate. +1 This is what I've always understood as well.

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 3:44:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MrKane quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? My understanding of manual says that bombarded units are eating supplies with combat rate not normal rate. Just another reason why reserve mode is so useful...

MrKane -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 4:10:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: MrKane quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? My understanding of manual says that bombarded units are eating supplies with combat rate not normal rate. Just another reason why reserve mode is so useful... Especially when you are the one who is shooting at opponent position. Only yours ARTY unit are using supplies in combat rate mode in this case, it save me a lot of supplies in my games.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 7:16:21 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: MrKane quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? My understanding of manual says that bombarded units are eating supplies with combat rate not normal rate. Just another reason why reserve mode is so useful... That's a dangerous path! I've had some good moments and some very bad ones in reserve. If he attacks, well, then you're defending in move mode, which is obviously not ideal. Also, all units cannot be in reserve mode, so in China that means the Chinese basically have to let one unit get pounded to rest the others.

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 7:31:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: MrKane quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton I know I should know this but does arty bombardment alone burn enemy supply? My understanding of manual says that bombarded units are eating supplies with combat rate not normal rate. Just another reason why reserve mode is so useful... That's a dangerous path! I've had some good moments and some very bad ones in reserve. If he attacks, well, then you're defending in move mode, which is obviously not ideal. Also, all units cannot be in reserve mode, so in China that means the Chinese basically have to let one unit get pounded to rest the others. I've done all units in reserve mode. I did mess up and put them all back into reserve mode, when I should have left the ones that got "caught" in Combat... I'm not convinced that they actually fight in move mode - if they did, shouldn't there be an op mode penalty listed in the CR? And that's not listed, so....is it actually happening? Maybe it's an artifact of the Chinese infantry just really sucking rather than an op mode penalty that doesn't appear in the combat report. Keep in mind that units won't build forts if they aren't in Combat mode.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 8:36:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I've done all units in reserve mode. I did mess up and put them all back into reserve mode, when I should have left the ones that got "caught" in Combat... I'm not convinced that they actually fight in move mode - if they did, shouldn't there be an op mode penalty listed in the CR? And that's not listed, so....is it actually happening? Maybe it's an artifact of the Chinese infantry just really sucking rather than an op mode penalty that doesn't appear in the combat report. Keep in mind that units won't build forts if they aren't in Combat mode. Sorry, I should have been more clear. When enemy units are in the hex as well, one unit has to be in combat mode when the others are all in reserve. You can set them all in reserve, but after the turn one always has changed into combat mode, for me at least. This has happened numerous times in the current game. It is stated in the manual that any unit in reserve may move to fill a gap in the defense if the units in a hex are attacked, but it will switch into move mode and fight in that mode, not in an optimal condition. If this has changed I'd love to know, but it sure seems from my experience in game that it hasn't. The Corps in the mountains fighting the tank division that was just pushed out was actually moving back in reserve mode while the arty unit was in combat mode, but GJ had supply enough for one more attack, which I didn't think he would have, and instead of the 1:1 adjustments we'd been having between the same units, instead it was 1:10. Ouch.

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 8:59:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I've done all units in reserve mode. I did mess up and put them all back into reserve mode, when I should have left the ones that got "caught" in Combat... I'm not convinced that they actually fight in move mode - if they did, shouldn't there be an op mode penalty listed in the CR? And that's not listed, so....is it actually happening? Maybe it's an artifact of the Chinese infantry just really sucking rather than an op mode penalty that doesn't appear in the combat report. Keep in mind that units won't build forts if they aren't in Combat mode. Sorry, I should have been more clear. When enemy units are in the hex as well, one unit has to be in combat mode when the others are all in reserve. You can set them all in reserve, but after the turn one always has changed into combat mode, for me at least. This has happened numerous times in the current game. It is stated in the manual that any unit in reserve may move to fill a gap in the defense if the units in a hex are attacked, but it will switch into move mode and fight in that mode, not in an optimal condition. If this has changed I'd love to know, but it sure seems from my experience in game that it hasn't. The Corps in the mountains fighting the tank division that was just pushed out was actually moving back in reserve mode while the arty unit was in combat mode, but GJ had supply enough for one more attack, which I didn't think he would have, and instead of the 1:1 adjustments we'd been having between the same units, instead it was 1:10. Ouch. I've had entire stacks sit in Reserve mode with enemies in the same hex... the danger, of course, is that I would then have no control over which unit(s) get pulled into Combat. I could have been more selective, but I figured against such a large stack of IJA tanks it didn't really matter - those farther along on the movement progress to the Great Hex of Escape would make it out, while those straggling behind would be caught and forced into a disorganized retreat. That's more a consequence of my choosing to stream them out rather than a mass exodus, but still.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 10:29:49 PM)
Right. It's impossible to choose which unit out of those that are in reserve mode will be used for combat if the enemy bombards. But it's also impossible to assure full fighting capability from the units in the hex since they will be fighting in move mode if the attack is 'winning' and those reserve troops are called in to stem the tide and attempt to hold the hex. While it is a supply drain it's preferable to have units in combat mode in a contested hex, especially when it's clear the enemy will DA/SA at some point. Units in reserve mode also take more damage from air strikes (even with forts built).

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/11/2014 11:58:27 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Right. It's impossible to choose which unit out of those that are in reserve mode will be used for combat if the enemy bombards. But it's also impossible to assure full fighting capability from the units in the hex since they will be fighting in move mode if the attack is 'winning' and those reserve troops are called in to stem the tide and attempt to hold the hex. While it is a supply drain it's preferable to have units in combat mode in a contested hex, especially when it's clear the enemy will DA/SA at some point. Units in reserve mode also take more damage from air strikes (even with forts built). I agree in broad strokes that you want to sit in combat, with few exceptions - such as when you know you have sufficient units sitting in combat to maintain 1:2 odds or better in your favor, although I made the mistake of forgetting that some of my best Corps at Chungking were in Reserve for several of the IJA attacks against high fort levels. If I hadn't forgotten that, I might have really ripped up the IJA and held out for much longer. The other exception would be what happened in my example below, where I'm just wanting them to get out of the hex ASAP and anything getting out is better than nothing, so will risk the attacks the are pulsed with IJA supply shipments. I'm still not convinced there is an op mode penalty for Reserve mode. Yes, the manual or whatever says it's there, but it's not in the combat report as op mode(-) so I'm not sure it's actually happening. Example, everything in reserve here (in hopes that some will move far enough to make it out of the hex before the stack crumpled): quote: Ground combat at 66,44 (near Paoshan) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 46947 troops, 1089 guns, 2968 vehicles, Assault Value = 1822 Defending force 52923 troops, 227 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1287 Japanese adjusted assault: 974 Allied adjusted defense: 493 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 Combat modifiers No modifier here... Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 336 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Allied ground losses: 3022 casualties reported Squads: 24 destroyed, 264 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 92 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Assaulting units: 12th Tank Regiment 1st Tank Division 23rd Tank Regiment 17th Tank Regiment 40th Division 2nd Tank Regiment 13th Tank Regiment 15th Tank Regiment 3rd Tank Regiment 2nd Tank Division 51st Recon Regiment 9th Tank Regiment 11th Tank Regiment 1st Army 11th Army 10th Mortar Battalion 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion 21st Mortar Battalion 13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 1st Mortar Battalion 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment 10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Army 20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 23rd Army 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 13th Army 6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Mongol Garrison Army 3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Defending units: 67th Chinese Corps 65th Chinese Corps 56th Chinese Corps 1st Chinese Cavalry Corps 2nd Prov Chinese Corps 74th Chinese Corps 6th Chinese Corps 3rd Group Army 11th Group Army 3rd Chinese Base Force 12th Group Army 32nd Group Army 19th Group Army 10th Group Army 21st Group Army 10th Chinese Base Force 20th Group Army 11th Chinese Base Force 4th War Area 29th Group Army 7th Construction Regiment Every single Allied (Chinese) unit was in Reserve mode before the fight. Given the quality of troops and that all units had terrible supply levels (many with 0 and none incoming), it's impossible to tell if the high levels of casualties are from an "invisible" op mode penalty from Reserve mode or just normal happenings. I'm also not convinced that being bombarded will pull a single unit in a full stack of Reserved units out of reserve and into Combat mode. I think an actual attack may have to occur, but I'd need to test. Basically, I don't trust that any of the stated-in-the-manual/documentation drawbacks to Reserve mode are actually working correctly.

mind_messing -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 12:06:32 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: obvert Right. It's impossible to choose which unit out of those that are in reserve mode will be used for combat if the enemy bombards. But it's also impossible to assure full fighting capability from the units in the hex since they will be fighting in move mode if the attack is 'winning' and those reserve troops are called in to stem the tide and attempt to hold the hex. While it is a supply drain it's preferable to have units in combat mode in a contested hex, especially when it's clear the enemy will DA/SA at some point. Units in reserve mode also take more damage from air strikes (even with forts built). I agree in broad strokes that you want to sit in combat, with few exceptions - such as when you know you have sufficient units sitting in combat to maintain 1:2 odds or better in your favor, although I made the mistake of forgetting that some of my best Corps at Chungking were in Reserve for several of the IJA attacks against high fort levels. If I hadn't forgotten that, I might have really ripped up the IJA and held out for much longer. The other exception would be what happened in my example below, where I'm just wanting them to get out of the hex ASAP and anything getting out is better than nothing, so will risk the attacks the are pulsed with IJA supply shipments. I'm still not convinced there is an op mode penalty for Reserve mode. Yes, the manual or whatever says it's there, but it's not in the combat report as op mode(-) so I'm not sure it's actually happening. Example, everything in reserve here (in hopes that some will move far enough to make it out of the hex before the stack crumpled): quote: Ground combat at 66,44 (near Paoshan) Japanese Deliberate attack Attacking force 46947 troops, 1089 guns, 2968 vehicles, Assault Value = 1822 Defending force 52923 troops, 227 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1287 Japanese adjusted assault: 974 Allied adjusted defense: 493 Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 Combat modifiers No modifier here... Defender: terrain(+), leaders(+), experience(-), supply(-) Attacker: Japanese ground losses: 336 casualties reported Squads: 0 destroyed, 28 disabled Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled Allied ground losses: 3022 casualties reported Squads: 24 destroyed, 264 disabled Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 92 disabled Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled Assaulting units: 12th Tank Regiment 1st Tank Division 23rd Tank Regiment 17th Tank Regiment 40th Division 2nd Tank Regiment 13th Tank Regiment 15th Tank Regiment 3rd Tank Regiment 2nd Tank Division 51st Recon Regiment 9th Tank Regiment 11th Tank Regiment 1st Army 11th Army 10th Mortar Battalion 7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 5th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion 21st Mortar Battalion 13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion 1st Mortar Battalion 9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 11th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment 10th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 52nd Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 12th Army 20th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 51st Ind.Mtn.Gun Battalion 4th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 23rd Army 22nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 8th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 13th Army 6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 2nd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Mongol Garrison Army 3rd Hvy.Artillery Regiment 1st Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion 6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment 15th Ind.Medium Field Artillery Regiment 2nd Medium Field Artillery Regiment 14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment 4th Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment 12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion Defending units: 67th Chinese Corps 65th Chinese Corps 56th Chinese Corps 1st Chinese Cavalry Corps 2nd Prov Chinese Corps 74th Chinese Corps 6th Chinese Corps 3rd Group Army 11th Group Army 3rd Chinese Base Force 12th Group Army 32nd Group Army 19th Group Army 10th Group Army 21st Group Army 10th Chinese Base Force 20th Group Army 11th Chinese Base Force 4th War Area 29th Group Army 7th Construction Regiment Every single Allied (Chinese) unit was in Reserve mode before the fight. Given the quality of troops and that all units had terrible supply levels (many with 0 and none incoming), it's impossible to tell if the high levels of casualties are from an "invisible" op mode penalty from Reserve mode or just normal happenings. I'm also not convinced that being bombarded will pull a single unit in a full stack of Reserved units out of reserve and into Combat mode. I think an actual attack may have to occur, but I'd need to test. Basically, I don't trust that any of the stated-in-the-manual/documentation drawbacks to Reserve mode are actually working correctly. If what you're telling me is the case, then there might be a bug in reserve mode. There's no way that all those tanks inflicted "only" 3000 odd casualties when most of the units were in reserve mode.

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 1:43:40 AM)
All in Reserve mode, not most. And there was terrain there...

crsutton -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 2:32:31 AM)
Interesting, I just have never used front line troops in reserve mode. Can't see much of a benefit. Except for pursuit, that is.

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 2:36:55 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: crsutton Interesting, I just have never used front line troops in reserve mode. Can't see much of a benefit. Except for pursuit, that is. As far as I can tell, they move at the Move mode rate regardless of any aerial bombing, combat, etc. Also protected from bombardment and seem to take replacements/repair disablements faster. It's like Move mode + Rest mode with no downside, other than an alleged combat penalty if they get pulled in to prevent 2:1 odds.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 8:51:51 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I'm also not convinced that being bombarded will pull a single unit in a full stack of Reserved units out of reserve and into Combat mode. I think an actual attack may have to occur, but I'd need to test. Basically, I don't trust that any of the stated-in-the-manual/documentation drawbacks to Reserve mode are actually working correctly. This part has been tested extensively in this game. I've had 15+ incidences of this happen. I've tried virtually all possibilities to limit supply loss from bombardments and to keep troops out of the line of fire. When all of the units in a hex are in reserve and the enemy bombards, every single time one unit has been transferred into combat mode.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 8:54:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing If what you're telling me is the case, then there might be a bug in reserve mode. There's no way that all those tanks inflicted "only" 3000 odd casualties when most of the units were in reserve mode. Looks lie a mountain hex, so it doesn't look abnormal for a 1:1 DA. if they'd gotten a 2:1, then the wheels would have fallen off.

mind_messing -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 1:48:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna All in Reserve mode, not most. And there was terrain there... Even so, it's a monster stack of tanks, against low supply Chinese with only 200 odd guns. Terrain or not, I'd have expected better...

Lokasenna -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 2:05:01 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna All in Reserve mode, not most. And there was terrain there... Even so, it's a monster stack of tanks, against low supply Chinese with only 200 odd guns. Terrain or not, I'd have expected better... Looks normal to me - as we all know, IJA tanks are really just "tanks" [;)]. I took a nice long look at AFV device stats last night. Even the lowly Allied Stuart Light Tank has better stats than the IJA Type 97 Medium Tank. Keep in mind that the odds were 1:1, not 2:1 - which you did eventually reach. This was an attack or two before the last one that made the Chinese go full Monty Python. 300 IJA vs. 3000 Chinese looks right, maybe even a little stiff for the Chinese (perhaps from an invisible reserve mode penalty). quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I'm also not convinced that being bombarded will pull a single unit in a full stack of Reserved units out of reserve and into Combat mode. I think an actual attack may have to occur, but I'd need to test. Basically, I don't trust that any of the stated-in-the-manual/documentation drawbacks to Reserve mode are actually working correctly. This part has been tested extensively in this game. I've had 15+ incidences of this happen. I've tried virtually all possibilities to limit supply loss from bombardments and to keep troops out of the line of fire. When all of the units in a hex are in reserve and the enemy bombards, every single time one unit has been transferred into combat mode. That's good to know.

mind_messing -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 2:11:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna All in Reserve mode, not most. And there was terrain there... Even so, it's a monster stack of tanks, against low supply Chinese with only 200 odd guns. Terrain or not, I'd have expected better... Looks normal to me - as we all know, IJA tanks are really just "tanks" [;)]. I took a nice long look at AFV device stats last night. Even the lowly Allied Stuart Light Tank has better stats than the IJA Type 97 Medium Tank. Keep in mind that the odds were 1:1, not 2:1 - which you did eventually reach. This was an attack or two before the last one that made the Chinese go full Monty Python. 300 IJA vs. 3000 Chinese looks right, maybe even a little stiff for the Chinese (perhaps from an invisible reserve mode penalty). Perhaps I expected a bit much of my five hundred odd IJA "tanks" against Chinese troops out of supply and with little AT capability... I do find the absence of a (- ops mode) quite a suprise though. I think if your troops had been in "Move" mode, the result would be quite different...

crsutton -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/12/2014 6:08:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna quote: ORIGINAL: mind_messing quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna All in Reserve mode, not most. And there was terrain there... Even so, it's a monster stack of tanks, against low supply Chinese with only 200 odd guns. Terrain or not, I'd have expected better... Looks normal to me - as we all know, IJA tanks are really just "tanks" [;)]. I took a nice long look at AFV device stats last night. Even the lowly Allied Stuart Light Tank has better stats than the IJA Type 97 Medium Tank. Keep in mind that the odds were 1:1, not 2:1 - which you did eventually reach. This was an attack or two before the last one that made the Chinese go full Monty Python. 300 IJA vs. 3000 Chinese looks right, maybe even a little stiff for the Chinese (perhaps from an invisible reserve mode penalty). quote: ORIGINAL: obvert quote: ORIGINAL: Lokasenna I'm also not convinced that being bombarded will pull a single unit in a full stack of Reserved units out of reserve and into Combat mode. I think an actual attack may have to occur, but I'd need to test. Basically, I don't trust that any of the stated-in-the-manual/documentation drawbacks to Reserve mode are actually working correctly. This part has been tested extensively in this game. I've had 15+ incidences of this happen. I've tried virtually all possibilities to limit supply loss from bombardments and to keep troops out of the line of fire. When all of the units in a hex are in reserve and the enemy bombards, every single time one unit has been transferred into combat mode. That's good to know. Japanese tank rule over infantry until the Allies 1943 squad upgrades, then they are quite impotent. AT guns help but are not as effective as they should be. It is when the squads upgrade (probably to reflect the introduction of bazookas and piats) that the Japanese tanks are nerfed. Virtually any Allied tank is better than Japanese tanks but the Indian army really does not get sufficient tank units until the end of 1942. The Australian tank regiments are quite strong by the end of July 42.

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/15/2014 1:53:56 PM)
Sorry of the lack of updates for a few days. Our turn count has slowed due both to Nick going on holiday and to me again starting work! I have a few days to update, including a KB ambush of my forces around Cent Pac. Not as bad as it could have been, but not ideal. Still, more troops are delivered and three bases have airfields built now. I'll post more as soon as I catch a break!

JocMeister -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/15/2014 8:16:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: obvert and to me again starting work! Welcome back to reality! How many weeks of vacation this time? [:D]

obvert -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/16/2014 7:44:38 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: JocMeister quote: ORIGINAL: obvert and to me again starting work! Welcome back to reality! How many weeks of vacation this time? [:D] Well, summer break. Two months! [:)] It always is a shock to go back in, but a good one, and I'm looking forward to the new year kicking off.

JocMeister -> RE: ::Felix, Ferdinand and FRUPAC:: obvert (A) v Greyjoy (J) (8/16/2014 11:08:59 AM)
Only two months? Poor you! [:D]

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