RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (Full Version)

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mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 6:20:33 PM)

Ebola, make sure your game is up to date. It probably can't read that line because that component is classified as a super torpedo weapon, which was only made possible by the most recent update.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 6:55:57 PM)

quote:

Just 9?? HOW? I legit do not understand how you did that unless it was part of some carefully orchestrated blitz. Even then, how did you defend your systems? Are you sure you copied everything correctly? I just double checked and the Eldar troops are properly named and the race file is referencing the correct troop images.


It kinda was. I got lucky with a good scientist, good research locations and a ship graveyard. I repaired the capital ships, retired the other ones and maxed out the holofields. Larger fleets mean nothing when you can barely hit the target and the few hits are negated by a decent shield. My ships ignored the enemy fleets and nuked the homeworlds. I think targetting systems are not a research priority for the AI.

The Eldar troop images are labeled troop_16 (or troop_16_armored, etc.) but the images shown are the troop_14 images of vanilla DW. I do not know which lines in the races files are referring to the troop images, so I cannot check myself.

Other races don't seem to have this problem.



EbolaFever -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 7:19:57 PM)

mensrea, it helped, thank you. How idiotic of me it was- not to check for latest patch first of all.

Btw, since I've got your attention- you've mentioned problems with modding land units. What are those exactly? I will try my hand at modding Distant Worlds.. eventually... and every bit helps.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 9:01:32 PM)

Japhet - Check line 30 for this:

"'Designs picture family index: index of default ships pictures used for this race from ship pictures contained in Images\units\ships\ folder or Customization\YourTheme\shipImages\ folder
DesignsPictureFamilyIndex ;16"

Also, did you feel the holo-shields are OP or that the AI is just lacking in research direction?

Ebola - It's always the simplest things that evade us; I feel your pain. There aren't really problems with land unit modding, its just that you can't add more than the ones there are. So if you want to add Space Marines, or Mechs or Titans, they basically have to be stat variations of existing units.

I also wanted to ask everyone what games have been like lately. AAR's would be awesome as I would like to hear strategies people have bee using.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 9:31:03 PM)

The line is correct, but I found the solution: I renamed the eldar troops to troop_14, etc. Then the proper images showed up. Maybe the troop images are determined by the "Picture index" entry?

quote:

Also, did you feel the holo-shields are OP or that the AI is just lacking in research direction?


Propably the second. Like I said, I had an enormous tech advantage and the other empires were not really advanced. They usually had only one or maybe two colonies, so they couldn't came that far research wise.

Also, there is something that causes the game to lag really hard. I thought it could be a projectile weapon, but now I'm not so sure anymore, because it even happened when there were no shots fired. It all started when my ships entered the Hrud main system. However, once I destroyed the Hrud by bombarding their homeworld, the lag disappeared [&:]



Cyrtis -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 10:57:40 PM)

Naturally, this is just my humble opinion.
Settings: All normal. Small (400x400) galaxy, 10 random empires, no tech brokering
Diff: Hard, increasing as towards victory

Most game-breaking thing ever: Stealing the legacy techs. Although somehow, it's super hard to steal astartes training.

The Stryxis make SO much money, so quickly! They can rush every tech. That's held in check by their difficulty expanding- ala the regular colony construction speed.

The Imperials are universally hated, which is a good balance. Same for the orks. The necrons- not so hated for some reason. Or maybe everyone is just too scared? The astartes are possibly OP, but in AI hands, don't seem to get used like the hammar of destruction they ought to be.

Honestly, I don't think the necrons are working right. They should be a plague-type event, rather than a race. Or better yet, restricted to one world like the Ancient Ones, just way more violent and hell-bent on destruction.

Eldar:
I have the most experience with the eldar. Simply put, they are highly imbalanced. It's laughably easy to win with them. Let's count the ways:
1) 50% tech bonus
2) OP ship components
3) Increased ship size is possibly the most imbalanced thing about them
4) The happiest population in the galaxy, due to leader bonuses. +400 happiness for enslaved orks is just a little silly, don't you think?
5) Spy bonus- steal those legacy techs.
I would: restrict them to despotic or maybe fascist. This would help reign in their tech bonus.
Make them more hated (-30). That more Mon-keigh happily paying taxes.
Eliminate ship size bonus, but create a tier 4 tech tree called Craftworld, which is basically the same as the space hulk construction tech.

I believe in the lore the eldar ships don't utilize void shield, and are rather fragile, if you can manage to hit them.
- I would limit the eldar to NO SHIELDS, but increase the holofields by 10%, to increase by 10% each tech. Also, I would give them wraithbone armor- something like a weaker version of the necrodermis.



Cyrtis -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 11:02:38 PM)

It's easy to capture the necron ships with terminator garrisons!



Cyrtis -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/4/2014 11:03:28 PM)

Also of note: I have NEVER had the chaos plague hit. I have always managed to win or be eliminated before they came.

-Additionally, the eldar should HATE to go to war, IMHO. They are a dying race, after all, with lifespans up to 1000 years or more.
Remove their natural bonus, then add a planetary facility (or component?) called Infinity Matrix, which when build (limited to eldar), lowers war weariness (gives them a bonus of -60% to war weariness?) This facility can be bundled with the craftworld tech perhaps.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/5/2014 1:55:54 AM)

Japhet - I honestly have barely worked with the troop picture index so you are most definitely correct. That's good to know for the future. I'm not sure why the Hrud would be lagging. Perhaps its something to do with races that are not playable? Was there anything else you suspect might have been involved?

Cyrtis - I may be able to use this to restrict people from stealing legacy techs, as I agree that it is completely OP: "'Disallowed ComponentIds: comma-separated list of component Id values that cannot be researched by this race
DisallowedComponentIds ;". Thats in the race file. I have never used it before though, so I'm not sure if it will work considering it only refers to what components can be researched.

The Stryxis will be better balanced with the major racial update. I have made everyone hate the Necrons as much as possible, the only thing I can do is make them hate Machine races even more than they already do. I completely agree with you about the Necrons; I actually wanted to restrict them to one world, make them unplayable and have them as sort of a terrible surprise. That's actually the reason why they were so OP to begin with. However, people actually wanted to play them, so we are left with a race that I have to balance according to others, allow to expand, etc. In my opinion though, I could see having a one-planet challange be something for very hardcore players. I will have to put more consideration into it and ask for more feedback, especially from Necron players.

I'm surprised that the Eldar are being reported as that OP. In games versus them they usually don't do that well. I will remove their ship size bonus and give them the tech as you suggest. I didn't even think 400 happiness was possible, but yes I agree that it is ridiculous. I based the happiness bonuses off the idea that they were great manipulators, but no one is that good. They should be more hated as well, being a main race and the previous super-power, and I will make it so.

Funny that you mention the shields thing today. Japhets description of his game reminded me that they didn't use shields in the lore. The thing I don't understand is that their ships were described as weak as you said, yet their ships were made from wraithbone which was described as being tough. Your idea with improving holo-shields make sense as well, especially if I deprive them of shields.

I thought of a solution to Necrons weakness to ship boarding, and I have already given it to them and will be giving it to the Eldar as well.

I have never triggered the Shakturi, either. I wrote it off to playing on small maps as I don't recall triggering them in vanilla on small maps either. That is worrying though. I think one snag may be the fact that empires develop so much more quickly, and one of the things Shakturi invasions hinges on is how much opposition they would face. This is conjecture though, I am only going by forum user speculation.

I feel the Eldar's war weariness bonus is accurate as I see spirit stones and matrices as being an inherent part of their society, but I will turn their willingness to go to war down. That will only affect the AI, though, and the onus of remaining in character will lie with the user.

Good posts by the way, this feedback is very valuable



Cyrtis -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/5/2014 2:12:32 AM)

For all that happiness, I had to steal the trader legacy tech, so as to put the enhanced cloning facility on a spaceport. There were a lot of bonuses from planetary dev- basically, I owned 2/3 of the galaxy at the time, so whatever boosts ork happiness, I had it coming in. As well as the wonders that boost happiness. It was overkill.

I don't understand why the Eldar do poorly when played by the AI. I had the same experience, though.

Looking forward to the next patch!



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/5/2014 5:08:38 AM)

AAR: I normally do games one of two ways, and since you've been updating so often it's been fun each time.
Both ways:
All settings normal, Normal difficulty.
Largest galaxy with most planets available, normally spiral or irregular galaxy.
Pirates I normally do one powerful pirate faction or a bunch of weak ones.
No space monsters, they're just annoying and slow down games.
18-20 other empires, all at pre-warp development and tech.

Game 1:
Imperial, center of the galaxy, start with tech and development 1 since they're a pain to get started with. Territory/population victory at 90%.
My general strategy is to research and build the wonders asap, while land-grabing as fast as i can. I generally build a small number of frigates for mobile defense, and build a station with defenses/med/recreation facilities at each colony, relying on one or two space ports until i go to war. I also keep one fleet, made of ships i discover. All other resources I pour into research. After I've grabbed as many planets as i can (normally 150-200) i'll start cleansing the galaxy, first by exterminating aliens then by conquering other human factions, all in a weak-to-strong order. My favorite fleet setup is 1 carrier and 14 capital ships, all at max size with around 300 firepower each. I generally keep 6 of these fleets for wiping out targets fast, then nuking their planets into wastelands. Yes, I do have some evil inside me.

Game 2:
Diasporex, edge of the galaxy, start at prewarp. Economic victory at 80%
Same start as with Imperials, same tactics. I'll conquer hostile races and make treaties with friendly ones. Much more easy-going game.

I do have a question though: are gravity beam weapons cannon for the WH40K universe? Those just feel OP and...unrealistic haha. Is it possible to remove them? A game I played a couple versions ago turned chaotic when a Laer faction attacked me with ships loaded down with these, and it was painful to watch how easily they destroyed stations with them.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/5/2014 9:24:49 AM)

quote:

I'm not sure why the Hrud would be lagging. Perhaps its something to do with races that are not playable? Was there anything else you suspect might have been involved?


Honestly I've no idea. It could be the amount of items on the screen. The Hrud had many ships, my fleet had a lot of fighters, the pulsar weapon fires many shots at once, so maybe that's the problem? However, it doesn't explain why the lag didn't happen when I fought the other races [&:]

quote:

Funny that you mention the shields thing today. Japhets description of his game reminded me that they didn't use shields in the lore. The thing I don't understand is that their ships were described as weak as you said, yet their ships were made from wraithbone which was described as being tough. Your idea with improving holo-shields make sense as well, especially if I deprive them of shields.


Holofields are indeed the primary defensive mechanism for Eldar crafts. However the Eldar DO have normal shield technology, their war walkers and wave serpents use a special force field for extra protection. I think their super heavy tanks like the cobra also have the same shielding. Also, the craftwordls use shields (I think I' read it in one of the Eldar novels), because they're to large to hide with holograms.

Eldar ships are fragile because they are not armored. Wraithbone is harder and more resilient than adamantium, but the Eldar don't use many layers of it to cover their ships like the Imperium does.

You could reduce the hitpoints of Eldar ships and give the Eldar a special wraithbone armor that has a higher rating but also a much larger size so you can't use to much on a ship.

Btw, there was some effort by some veteran Battlefleet Gothic players to rework and rebalance the tabletop game. They gave the eldar shields (though not as many as other races have), raised the armor rating by one to reflect the wraithbone hardness and nerfed the holofields, because they were really op. It seems to have worked out quite well:
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-aXA8fc5AQ8T0pOTmliYmIxR0U/edit?pli=1
http://afterimagedan.blogspot.de/2012/10/battlefleet-gothicrevised.html






mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/5/2014 7:18:19 PM)

Capshades - There are references to a ton of random weapons with all sorts of exotic properties detailed by the lore. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Graviton_gun#.VAoJe2B0wwI . I agree that it is pretty scary though. I usually hate fighting those damn Laer because of them. They just surround your ships and bombard them with that. The ships caught by them don't seem to do anything but sit there and violently quake as they fall to pieces. Given the fact that gravity weapons ignore shields I may have to reduce the damage they do. Anyone else other than us have bad experiences versus them? I wanted to make them more viable weapons but not to the extent that they are OP.

I wouldn't call the desire to consume entire races in nuclear fire evil. Humans do, after all, have a right to the universe and everything in it...mwahahahaha. Thanks for the AAR's, too.

Japhet - Rather than add a new armor component, I will just assume that wraithbone falls under the category of passive armor and leave it at that. We are already looking at around 800 techs or so not counting any future modifications.

Has anyone encountered Heretic forces yet?



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/5/2014 11:56:29 PM)

Any clue what the ETA is for next update?

And I normally play with the heresy event off, but I'll try a game with it soon.



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/6/2014 1:55:12 AM)

Mensrea, for the Necrons, how about making it *really* slow (REALLY slow) for them to build colony ships, leave them with a good birthrate and the extermination bonus though? Alternatively, perhaps give them a different warp speed track that starts off *REALLY* slow (or has very limited range) and then ramp it up to godlike levels at max tech? This could simulate the necrons "coming online" so to speak and force them to have basically horrible expansion for a large portion of the game (while still having strong, albeit very slow, ships)? How does that sound?

Alternatively, if there is any way to have captured enemy colonies automatically wiped of all life.. that would do it. Perhaps it's possible through a tech or wonder??

Final goal should be extremely limiting necron expansion in the early game, but making them into a very strong unit-per-unit force in the late game that matches and exceeds the other race's advanced options.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/6/2014 2:38:59 AM)

Cap, the next update should be ready by Sunday. It would have been ready last Sunday but I actually reworked almost the entire tech tree. It was a real pain in the ass.

Swizzle - The colony ship thing is a good idea and I will go with that. The Necrons have been balanced a bit more now: they are at 10% natural birthrate, get a 200% bonus from rare artifacts, and have the extermination bonus maxed out. Sadly there is no way to increase the rate of extermination above normal by any means. An option like that would fix most of the immersion issues in this mod and is highly desirable.

I was wondering if you see a significant amount of free troop ships appearing around your capital world when playing as the Necrons.



swizzlewizzle -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/6/2014 2:54:36 AM)

Honestly I can't remember ever caring/seeing that mensrea. Though it might be just because i'm not looking for it.



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/6/2014 5:38:50 AM)

Trust me, your hard work on the tech tree is deeply appreciated



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/6/2014 6:53:42 PM)

Something for the Laer. Not much, just a (more or less) unique ui. It is stated in the lore that the Laer had insectoid heads, despite being reptile creatures, so I searched for a more appropriate race portrait.

Since I love spiders, I may do the same for the Megarachnids, but it's not certain.



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/6/2014 11:12:07 PM)

Ui for the Megarachnids.

Btw, I noticed that two of the necron troop images have a space in their name, which means that the images aren't showing up properly.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 12:05:12 AM)

Well, it's finally ready. 837 techs, 151 components and everything I ever wanted (in a tech tree). I not only achieved everything I wanted to do with the tech tree but I am also almost fully done with balancing the races according to my new system. After this update I have the facility update, the AI update and the character update as well as ongoing art, tech and racial polishing. After all that is done and any remaining bugs are squashed we will officially be out of beta. Please note that there are blank spots and unfinished tech lines in the research tree as I have not added all the races I want to yet (Squats, Tyranids, pirate races) and have not messed around with viral weapons or bio-weapons in general. Of course there is still all the backend like changing the opening post which hasn't been changed in months, doing those absurd MHTML documents for the pedia, and of course the scenario. Out of all that the one thing I truly dread is the AI work; maybe I will save it for last.

I also wanted to thank you guys for all your encouragement and input. Without you guys this mod would be nothing, really. Your input has definitely had a profoundly positive effect on this mods development, and I feel, evolution into something much greater than it was or ever would have been without you. Thanks guys.

Anyway, here it is: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/56152025/WH40k%20mod%20v.10.zip

Here's the changelog, too. Enjoy.

v.10 changelog
-added hightech tree
-rebalanced other trees and added more techs
-added many new components and changed many old ones
-completely rebalanced races according to these categories
-aggressive: Eldar, Imperial, Lacrymole, Laer, Megarachnid, Necron, Ork, Quietude, Scythian
-tech: Auretian, Interex, Jorgall, Kinebranch
-trader: Diasporex, Ghassulian, Kehletai, Stryxis
-expansionist: Gykon, Tarellian, Tushepta, Vrakk
-rebalanced races according to further minor catagories listed in the snippet
-started work on extensive cataloging effort. heres a snippet:

"A.Fat
-Can't use fighters
-Can't do deep cover or inspire revolts
-Bigger ships
-Tougher troops

B.Warriors Legacy
-Cheap troops
-Better troop transports
-Immediate access to cheap military academies

C.Subversive Legacy
-Sensory Camoflage (cloaking component)
-Better Special Ops
-Immediate access to Special Ops
-Immediate access to cheap intelligence academies

D.Defenders Legacy
-Immediate access to Planetary Defense Forces
-Better Planetary Defense Forces
-Immediate access to cheap planetary shields

E.Spacefaring Legacy
-Exotic Engine (engine component)
-Exotic Vector (vector component)
-Compressed Fuel Pods (fuel cell component)
-Immediate access to cheap admiral academies

F.Cybernetic Legacy
-Cybernetic Command Node (command center component)
-Immediate access to cheap science academies

G.Robotics Legacy
-AI Targeting System (targeting component)
-Repair Drones (repair component)
-Immediate access to cheap robotic troop factories

H.Psyker Legacy
-Psychic Amplifier (detector component)

I.Resilience
-Deep Space Survival Module (colonization component)
-Immediate access to all planetary colonization tech

J.Genetic Modification Legacy
-Cloning Center (medical component)
-Immediate access to double growth rate at all colonies

K.Traders Legacy
-Trading Complex (commerce component)
-Pleasure Complex (recreation component)

L.FTL Legacy
-Exotic Drive (warp component)

M.Major Races
-More points
-More unique components
-Fewer victory conditions
-Universally despised"

-added a great deal of new art including thanks to Japhet
-addressed all issues discussed on forum
-prepared for next update with tractor beams
-under the hood changes for posterity
-changed document headings "'WH40k mod v.10 for Distant Worlds: Universe 1.9.5.7"
-much, much more



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 12:20:20 AM)

Woooo, downloading now!

Edit: Possible bugs as I find them.

Last 3 techs for governance are empty, no benefits.
Acidic spores tech is empty, no benefit, no unlocks.
Viral Weaponry is empty, no benefit.

Are tech, happiness, and economy wonders now gone?



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 1:43:29 AM)

Yeah the facilities update comes next as I mentioned and some tech trees were left blank as they will be used for future races.

Wonders will be completely reworked so in the meantime the old ones are mostly gone.



SF-Inc -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 1:58:45 AM)

Never mind then



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 2:08:46 AM)

Works fine on 1.9.5.7 for me.



SF-Inc -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 2:10:19 AM)

Never mind then



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 3:25:12 AM)

That's strange, I am running it in 1.9.5.7 now.



Capshades -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 3:55:45 AM)

I'm getting a really weird lag, construction % for buildings on planets only refresh when i click on the planet again, and the research completion % at the top lags behind by about a minute.

Edit: Solved by restarting



Japhet -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 9:43:27 PM)

Playing as the Necrons is kinda boring at the beginning, because of the very long construction times. There is simply not much to do. It can also be very dangerous, because you can basically not defend yourself against early attacks. In one of my short test games, four races have found me (Imperium, Hrud, Diasporex & Interex), before my (large) spaceport was even finished. If one of them would've decided to attack, I would've been completely helpless. Thank god, the Hrud decided to attack the Imperials first.

Also I noticed that the Hrud are always very close at fullfilling their racial goals, even at the start of the game.

I finally finished the combined pack. Besides all the other former packs, it contains some component images for the Eldar, Necrons and Tau, updated ui icons for all races and some art for two new ones: the Zoats and the Rak'Gol. The later would make a good pirate race.
http://www.mediafire.com/download/hgc2dcrbgmzbo07/WH+40K+pack.rar

I'm not sure if I'm doing any work on the remaining races, I found them relativly uninteresting to be honest and there isn't much lore on them to work with. They are mostly generic sci-fi races anyway and I don't think that there are many prominent races left, besides maybe the Nicassar (space bears) or the Slaugth (worm people). However, I think Blackstork's xhuman ui would work well for the Interex.



mensrea -> RE: Warhammer 40k DW:U Mod (9/8/2014 10:48:23 PM)

Any word from anyone else on the Necrons? I may have went to far with the nerfing..I was hoping the addition of the particle whips might swing the balance in their favor despite being slow builders.

I will definitely be adding the Rak'Gol. Those guys are pretty terrifying even for WH40k standards.

Thanks for the art. Having a big pack like that makes it a lot easier on me.

I feel you on the remaining races. Most of them are just listed as having been met and then killed during the Great Crusade....not much to work with there. On the other hand so many blank slates mean we can pretty much use tropes or races from other sources. The Gykon are based entirely on the Grineer (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Grineer), the Auretians based off the Corpus (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Corpus) and the Scythian sort of a mixture of Tenno and original lore (http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Tenno). If anyone has any races from other fictions they might want to superimpose over some of our more bland races please let me know.

I'm not sure if Blackstork would be willing to share but I will ask.



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