RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (Full Version)

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Icemania -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 4:09:00 AM)

lurchi, hopefully you are reading the recent comments in the Weapons Balancing thread. Some further "encouragement" in the research tree to hybridize weapons in the research tree would be welcome so we can have more variety in the race weapon designs. Ideally every race would have a unique weapons combination, without putting the AI in certain cases at a disadvantage.



hewwo -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 6:18:43 AM)

Hey Lurchi! I am really looking forward to this mod but I'm ever so slightly concerned you might be going a bit overboard with the number of new research projects. Of course the number itself is not really important, but I really like the average length of a DW game as it is, and I hope this mod will improve variety and game balance, without significantly increasing the average length of a game! Cheers:)



Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 7:21:17 AM)

@hewwo: I think the most of the new projects are "upgrades" for already researched components, so i think you can always outpower an enemy specific enemys that are behind you in the research. But i think in compare to the vanilla game it needs more time because, if im understand it right and i hope so^^, lurchi changed the warpdrives that it needs more time to travel. So it needs more time for near everything, and opposit of you, i like it a lot because i want to play looooooooooooong games.[:D]



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 7:58:31 AM)

Hey lurchi
here is short outline of megamod/beyond race pool

those more 5 races that have unique techs/components
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/fb.asp?m=3668751

1. Such-Oos - 2 eye snails - white flag - unique tech trees on countermeasure component and hight capacity super low volume cargo module. Will have small ships, very weak race, but their frighters will haul more than other races, despite being lower size ones.
2. Yereni - blue flag - Religious Theocratic Xenofobic semi-immortal aquatic guys. Own tree of long range guns.
3. Veresia - aqua flag - space energetic leech worms, have unique energy collectors (much better ones) and Area Gravitic Weapons unique tree
4. Dlakar - predator worms , speicial modules tree for Targeting (Hunger Hunter Device) , Use mix of weapons, specialise on hi precision.
5. Laaran - humanoids with sort of utilitarian control. Have 2 special things - unique "Broadcast Tower" planetary building that improves troop recruitment and happiness, and special tree on Assault Pods. Specialize on assault pods/capturing have massive bonuses to ship maint. reduction

Please reserve places / check if it fits well / give comments if any.
Thanks! :) Cheers.



Icemania -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 10:08:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo
Hey Lurchi! I am really looking forward to this mod but I'm ever so slightly concerned you might be going a bit overboard with the number of new research projects. Of course the number itself is not really important, but I really like the average length of a DW game as it is, and I hope this mod will improve variety and game balance, without significantly increasing the average length of a game! Cheers:)

Another way to deal with that is to move your research settings a notch. I normally play with Expensive Research so Normal Research would probably be right for me with this Mod. Or lurchi could reduce the research costs so they remain similar overall.




lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 10:52:10 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

lurchi, hopefully you are reading the recent comments in the Weapons Balancing thread. Some further "encouragement" in the research tree to hybridize weapons in the research tree would be welcome so we can have more variety in the race weapon designs. Ideally every race would have a unique weapons combination, without putting the AI in certain cases at a disadvantage.



I just answered there and do it here as well.

First the good news:
I already tinkered around to create shield braker weapons and will include those in Research Reloaded.

Now the bad news:
I used a kludge, but that's the only way to do it right now. The problem is that bonus/malus is hardcoded and can't be modded freely. That's especially bad for hybrid weapons - I can't create those until the base game is updated according to my wishlist.

Combining several weapons is what we have to do right now, and Research reloaded will give you a wide range.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 11:26:33 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo

Hey Lurchi! I am really looking forward to this mod but I'm ever so slightly concerned you might be going a bit overboard with the number of new research projects. Of course the number itself is not really important, but I really like the average length of a DW game as it is, and I hope this mod will improve variety and game balance, without significantly increasing the average length of a game! Cheers:)


Since I nerved hyper drives to slow down exploration and expansion the gaming time will rise a bit. The research paths grow only slightly. What I'm massively increasing is diversity. If you followed the thread you saw weapons usually have two research paths now, and there are way more different ones than before. You'll probably never see different races with ships as similar as in vanilla. [:)]



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 11:32:14 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Kizucha

@hewwo: I think the most of the new projects are "upgrades" for already researched components,


True. There are also tons of new components, though. Alas you're not supposed to research everything. I guess it'll be impossible when I'm done anyway, since you'll probably have won or lost the game long before.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kizucha

so i think you can always outpower an enemy specific enemys that are behind you in the research. But i think in compare to the vanilla game it needs more time because, if im understand it right and i hope so^^, lurchi changed the warpdrives that it needs more time to travel. So it needs more time for near everything, and opposit of you, i like it a lot because i want to play looooooooooooong games.[:D]


Epic gaming! [8D]



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 11:41:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Icemania

Another way to deal with that is to move your research settings a notch. I normally play with Expensive Research so Normal Research would probably be right for me with this Mod. Or lurchi could reduce the research costs so they remain similar overall.



Yep, lowering costs speeds up research and thus the game overall. I'll have to level out late game research costs similar to vanilla or there might be problems.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 11:42:07 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Blackstork

Please reserve places / check if it fits well / give comments if any.
Thanks! :) Cheers.



Will do.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 11:56:11 AM)

BTW Icemania, why isn't the Weapon Balancing thread in the modding section?



Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 11:58:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi
Epic gaming! [8D]

Exactly.[:D] I always play with really high research-cost and most have the feeling its still to fast.[;)]The biggest problem i have with this typ of games are, the research is sometimes slow you down but in most games there is a way to destroy the enemies without the point where you are in research. But i take what i get, DW is an nice game but my dreamgame is not out there and your research mod makes the game better, DW+Mods is epic enough for me right now. With that in mind i think DW is the best 4x game at the time for me, i'm happy that modder like you tweak the game to something better.[;)][&o]



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 12:04:09 PM)

Yeah, DW is the best 4x so far. Oh yeah, about attacking other empires early in game, you just might be surprised by new high power low range defense weapons. [:D]



EXar86 -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 12:18:39 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi

Yeah, DW is the best 4x so far. Oh yeah, about attacking other empires early in game, you just might be surprised by new high power low range defense weapons. [:D]


Hm best 4x with Aurora ! (without the "spreadsheet style")

Best dream? DW and Aurora mixed in one game [&o] (and your mod expand DW a little in that way for me, will become a must have with Haree's mod )



hewwo -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 12:44:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi


quote:

ORIGINAL: hewwo

Hey Lurchi! I am really looking forward to this mod but I'm ever so slightly concerned you might be going a bit overboard with the number of new research projects. Of course the number itself is not really important, but I really like the average length of a DW game as it is, and I hope this mod will improve variety and game balance, without significantly increasing the average length of a game! Cheers:)


Since I nerved hyper drives to slow down exploration and expansion the gaming time will rise a bit. The research paths grow only slightly. What I'm massively increasing is diversity. If you followed the thread you saw weapons usually have two research paths now, and there are way more different ones than before. You'll probably never see different races with ships as similar as in vanilla. [:)]


Great! yeah I don't mind the slower speed at the beginning, because obviously the engine speed, and especially range, is way too much in vanilla. But good to hear that later game remains roughly the same:)



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 1:57:12 PM)

Erik and Elliot are quiet since about a week ago and the last beta still did not get turned into a regular patch. This makes me hope they are working through the modding wishlist right now.

[&o] Praise our saviours! [&o]



Icemania -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 2:14:14 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi
BTW Icemania, why isn't the Weapon Balancing thread in the modding section?

The original idea was to open up discussion to the broader community who don't necessarily frequent the Modding dungeon. But I agree at this point it should be moved.




Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 7:13:59 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EXar86
Hm best 4x with Aurora ! (without the "spreadsheet style")

Best dream? DW and Aurora mixed in one game [&o] (and your mod expand DW a little in that way for me, will become a must have with Haree's mod )


Talking about the "like dwarf fortress in space"-Aurora? With the mix i accept it but i somehow dont get into aurora, it have near 0 visual output, i'm really not much in graphics and eye-candy but i "need" at least something like dwarf fortress + tilesets.[;)] If i'm wrong, what aurora you talk about and i dont know how aurora looks today, the last time i checked it, only text and dots and lines.[:D]

But i really would like an dwarf fortress in space, with all the complexity. It would be really near to my dream game.[;)]



ParagonExile -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 7:35:47 PM)

^ It's funny, because Distant World has awful graphics :D




lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 8:26:59 PM)

But it has graphics. [:D]

And not awful. Dated, but good enough.



ParagonExile -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 8:31:39 PM)

Oh, the graphics in this game are terrible. The last time I saw a game that looks as bad as DW was in the 90's. You may as well play a MUD :D

The game gets a pass because it's so great in every other way, so I don't hold it against it. Especially considering the scale of larger matches, which are easy to take for granted.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 8:38:21 PM)

The big 2D benefit is the easy moddability. [:D]

Well, I guess the biggest difference between DW and DW2 will be the latter's 3D graphics. At least I hope it is.



Kizucha -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 8:54:19 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ParagonExile

^ It's funny, because Distant World has awful graphics :D



It's not so funny.^^ In compare to dwarf fortress or the aurora i talk about, distant world graphics are fantastic.[:D]... Ok it's funny.[;)]

@Lurchi: If DW2 have 3D graphics... i hope it have GOOD, in most games the 3D graphic is good or its really really bad.[:D]



ParagonExile -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 8:56:31 PM)

I hope they keep the 2D, but increase the maximum resolution of items :3



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 9:06:23 PM)

Better resolution graphics? For 4K display? I sure hope we don't need a magnifier for game texts again. [:D]

Seriously, I'm quite sure there will be 3D graphics. Graphics and diplomacy are the main weaknesses of DW.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/3/2014 10:52:11 PM)

I'm still disentangling the ground forces, then the first research area is done. There are now 720 research projects.

That's it for today, gotta get up early tomorrow.



lurchi -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/4/2014 4:23:25 PM)

I bring this over from the Weapon Balance thread for stuff related to Research Reloaded.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhikore

Lurchi Ello, been meaning to drop in to the other mod threads and say Hello and Thanks for your efforts. [:)]


Thanks. [:)]

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhikore

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, it would be awesome if we could get a vent server, or skype group going. (For the sake of Competently and Comprehensively creating the Mega-mod)


A skype group sounds good, but we probably are not online at the same time. I'm on at wildly varying times depending on circumstances I have not much control over, work and family.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhikore

I will probably Mod some races, and implement them personally.
However, I am working on Balance Modding, specifically Vanilla Races/Personal Unique Additions, as well as all government types.
Furthermore, I want to open all government types to all races.


Balancing is Icemania's baby, races are Blackstork's thing, so those two are the right people for you.

I sure am interested in governments. There already is one government mod, you might want to check this out. Dunno about opening all governments to all races. Some are quite special, I think it would be better if those stay restricted. There might also be special governments tailor made for a race. In fact I already made one like this. Those sure should not be opened up.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhikore

The current implementation of Diplomacy(unmodded) seems very heavy-handed.
I mean penalties for simply being bigger than your neighbors, invading Independent colonies, and having rare luxury resources, which the galaxy instantly is aware of, somehow, seems a bit ridiculous.
Additionally, why arent there any intrinsic scaling bonuses to counter these? For instant an incremental bonus for peaceful behavior.
I guess I just feel that another race should only become angry/furious with you if youre actively instigating those feelings.


I think there's not much you can do about diplomacy. Not sure about this, though, I didn't look into modding this area.



Blackstork -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/4/2014 5:38:39 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: lurchi

Balancing is Icemania's baby, races are Blackstork's thing, so those two are the right people for you.

I sure am interested in governments. There already is one government mod, you might want to check this out. Dunno about opening all governments to all races. Some are quite special, I think it would be better if those stay restricted. There might also be special governments tailor made for a race. In fact I already made one like this. Those sure should not be opened up.




I actually do alot of balancing with character system, its huge rebalance which completely can change/improve/modify/destroy/add more depth on balance. You can deny certain character bonuses/skills to certain races and that could change race gameplay completely compared to bigger scope of all the gameplay and other races.

I also adding 4 race specific goverements in beyond,
they together with race.txt parameters and character system force new races into certain gameplay styles/makes them unique that way. Other than that i dont see big reason to add more of them, they are very nice way to create unique modifiers/restrictors to certain unique trait combo races.



Shark7 -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/4/2014 8:54:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ParagonExile

^ It's funny, because Distant World has awful graphics :D




I'll take awesome gameplay over awesome graphics any day.

I've played games with 'awesome graphics'. Oddly enough, I can finish those games in day, with no replay value. [8|]



ParagonExile -> RE: Research Reloaded - [DWU] [WIP] New tech tree with many new components, wonders... (8/4/2014 8:59:45 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

I'll take awesome gameplay over awesome graphics any day.

I've played games with 'awesome graphics'. Oddly enough, I can finish those games in day, with no replay value. [8|]


My thoughts exactly :D

Gameplay > Graphics any day, as this game quite clearly demonstrates



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